Calf price chitchat

pat73

We buy in calves every year,160 last year.There wont be one coming into the yard this year even if we get them for nothing.After paying for milk replacer,injections,vet call outs,ration ,hay and straw and the amount of time you have to put into them you would be better off on the dole.We couldnt take the chance and take another big financial hit two years in a row.There is alot better value going to the mart and buying runners,bring them home dose them and let them off.The problem with even buying them is when you carry them to the factory you are nailed with a bad grade and a bad price.For us we are going to take a back seat this year and see how the brexit fiasco pans out.As the saying goes no point been a busy fool.

Base price

tanko wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what FR and JEX bull calves are worth this spring when the glut hits.

Hopefully there will be an increase in the number of FR bull calves exported this year and less retained for rearing.

JEx bull calves are on a one way ticket along with the majority of FRx/AAx/HEx calves out of their crossbred JEx/Kiwi dams. TBH I reckon that there isn't enough capacity/facilities in place to handle the numbers coming downstream.

jaymla627

Base price wrote: »

Hopefully there will be an increase in the number of FR bull calves exported this year and less retained for rearing.

JEx bull calves are on a one way ticket along with the majority of FRx/AAx/HEx calves out of their crossbred JEx/Kiwi dams. TBH I reckon that there isn't enough capacity/facilities in place to handle the numbers coming downstream.

Jex here either get sexed our a Belgian blue, neighbour buys the majority of them the past few years and he’s getting them into 350kgs deadweight at 20-24 months with noting grading less than a R grade, their not the devil incarnated as been made out for beef production, but the biggest issue is most dairy farmers don’t want the hassle of calving them and their a bit more work to get going as calves so labor is a issue

Anto_Meath

Hi jaymala my neighbor that is giving the CH to the JeX cows tried BBs in the beginning but got it hard to sell some of them due to the mad mix of colors (browns, orange, gray, black and white all mixed up) .. so he ended up keeping some of them for bull beef and found them very difficult to handle as they got older. They were very pettish and as a result would think nothing of giving you a clout of their head as you were feeding them in the shed. But he was happy with how the killed out and the return he got, but he doesn't want to be feeding beef so that is why he changed to CH bull and has no issue since selling the calves.

Albert Johnson

_Brian wrote: »

Slaughtering young doesn’t seem to affect lamb production ??
Everything should be investigated as to it’s merrit.

Everything should most definitely be investigated for it's merit regardless of initial preconceptions. It's important to research any possible solutions be they veal or otherwise, only then can informed decisions be made.

Re the comparison between lamb and veal production there are marked differences in how they are concieved by the public imo. Lamb is lamb be it a milk fed young lamb at Easter or a horned wether the following March. Veal however is a term akin to fur in the fashion industry namely immediate negativety associated with both of the above in the eyes of the public.

I'm not well informed as to the finer points of any proposed veal systems but I assume that rose veal production would be favored over white veal. This could somewhat ease marketing issues as the meat would at least be a more agreeable colour.

I believe that if we could reinvent rose veal under a different name it would help to remove a lot of the stigma attached. Failing this a dedicated re-branding of the product would be needed to inform the public and alleviate any of there concerns. The above is not outside the realms of possibility but would of course require much futher investigation.

The first and most important step would be to research whether veal production on a sizeable scale is of any financial benefit to those involved. The same is relevant to all beef production regardless of the age of the cattle to be slaughtered. There are enough production systems in place currently without adding yet another white elephant, the economical element could prove the biggest stumbling block.

Grass to milk

Hi . Just wondering if lads have any idea on how much 3-4 week old Sim X are making out of Freisan cows? Since by all accounts my Fr bull calf is worthless.

jaymla627

Grass to milk wrote: »

Hi . Just wondering if lads have any idea on how much 3-4 week old Sim X are making out of Freisan cows? Since by all accounts my Fr bull calf is worthless.

Averaged 200 euro at two weeks old last spring for bulls/heifers, heifers that I kept came into nice beefy type calves too, will be interesting to see how they turn out as milkers

Base price

Keepgrowing wrote: »

14 day for mart
7 days from yard if travelling <100k

My understanding, open to correction

Base price wrote: »

Farm to mart and farm to farm - 10 days. If navel is not healed by 10 days they cannot travel to mart/farm.
Over 100klms - 14 days but this really relates to export calves.

IFA have asked Minister Creed to reconsider the 10 day movement rule and the requirement to identify the destination herd on compliance certs.

I will keep an eye for any updates.

https://www.ifa.ie/unnecessary-department-restrictions-on-movements-could-damage-the-calf-trade-ifa/#.XEH2xVz7SUk

Grass to milk

jaymla627 wrote: »

Averaged 200 euro at two weeks old last spring for bulls/heifers, heifers that I kept came into nice beefy type calves too, will be interesting to see how they turn out as milkers

You going milking them? Dairy Simmental/ Fleckviegh would give the beef man a better dairy bred calf , question is can the cow be as good in the parlour?

Mooooo

Have 5 heifers calving down will see how they go. Big friendly feckers, right pia sometimes

jaymla627

Grass to milk wrote: »

You going milking them? Dairy Simmental/ Fleckviegh would give the beef man a better dairy bred calf , question is can the cow be as good in the parlour?

Kept 20 for the bull this spring, the dams their off would be fairly extreme Holstein so the milk should carry through, I wouldn’t be advising it where your base cow hasn’t the milk on her side I’d reckon you’d just end up with a glorifed suckler

Never wrestle with pigs

Grass to milk wrote: »

Hi . Just wondering if lads have any idea on how much 3-4 week old Sim X are making out of Freisan cows? Since by all accounts my Fr bull calf is worthless.

Beef SIM? You'll get a nice touch for them out of the yeard. They would sell them selves. Go with a fawn colour bull if your getting one. He'll bring nice colour, nice jet black and white off a friend cow instead of the mouse colour. If you are selling off fr or f12/j4 you'll do good but off pure je I don't know what thell look like tbh.

Grass to milk

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Beef SIM? You'll get a nice touch for them out of the yeard. They would sell them selves. Go with a fawn colour bull if your getting one. He'll bring nice colour, nice jet black and white off a friend cow instead of the mouse colour. If you are selling off fr or f12/j4 you'll do good but off pure je I don't know what thell look like tbh.

No Jersey here, looking at going the opposite direction, a cow that produces a good calf for the beef man, can do 500 kgs solids easily and has a good cull value, if we as dairy men keep producing poor quality calves for the beef man then it can't end well. So I'm trying Fleckvieh to see what they can do and so far I have a few yearlings and I have 30 calves due this year. I'm very happy with what I see so far. I've 2 people who want to buy the fleck/sim calves out of the yard and I don't want to rob them , hence the question on how much they are making this year.

Never wrestle with pigs

Grass to milk wrote: »

No Jersey here, looking at going the opposite direction, a cow that produces a good calf for the beef man, can do 500 kgs solids easily and has a good cull value, if we as dairy men keep producing poor quality calves for the beef man then it can't end well. So I'm trying Fleckvieh to see what they can do and so far I have a few yearlings and I have 30 calves due this year. I'm very happy with what I see so far. I've 2 people who want to buy the fleck/sim calves out of the yard and I don't want to rob them , hence the question on how much they are making this year.

Anything out of the fleck will earn nice money. If you get 100 more for the calf it pays for allot of milk and no milking needed. Often wondered why dairy lads don't use more beef bulls like easy calving lims. The few days extra in the oven and lost milk is payed for hand over fist by the calf value.

You have two types of fleck too. German, more Holstein type cows, and Austrian, more British fr type cows. So depends on what your looking for or crossing them on. Celtic sires are good to chat to about the German types and Tonie o Leary in cork is sound to chat to about the Austrian type.

jaymla627

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Anything out of the fleck will earn nice money. If you get 100 more for the calf it pays for allot of milk and no milking needed. Often wondered why dairy lads don't use more beef bulls like easy calving lims. The few days extra in the oven and lost milk is payed for hand over fist by the calf value.

You have two types of fleck too. German, more Holstein type cows, and Austrian, more British fr type cows. So depends on what your looking for or crossing them on. Celtic sires are good to chat to about the German types and Tonie o Leary in cork is sound to chat to about the Austrian type.

Beef crosses are a lot more work getting started on the feeders to be fair, you’d want the patience of a saint trying to get some of the fleck crosses trained in, talking a good 3 days in some cases, while the fr bull is usually trained on the second feed

bogman_bass

White Clover wrote: »

I have a feeling that's about to change. Beef farmers have taken some roasting over the last 12 months. A lot of lads that I have talked to have said they're not prepared to lose anymore money to it.

How many times have we heard that tune though?

Bass Reeves

bogman_bass wrote: »

How many times have we heard that tune though?

The problem now is costs are way higher. Numbers leaving suckler is starting to feed through and will really take off after present suckler welfare scheme contracts end.

Lads might have cribbed before but most were making a small twist with decent reps schemes and higher SFP. Higher SFP were hiding losses. Another change is that we are in the third year of brutal winter finishing prices and most finishers cannot sustain it any longer. TBF to winter finishers they are eternal optimists with the price they pay for stores every Autumn none of them own a calculator. Margin in 70-100 day finishing is gone I think at present peices

Mooooo

At two to three weeks tho the beef breeds may not make that much more, different if held to 6 weeks

dar31

Mooooo wrote: »

At two to three weeks tho the beef breeds may not make that much more, different if held to 6 weeks

Had fr bulls that made more than whitehead bulls at 10-14 days old at mart.
Absolutely no logic behind calf prices at mart

whelan2

dar31 wrote: »

Had fr bulls that made more than whitehead bulls at 10-14 days old at mart.
Absolutely no logic behind calf prices at mart

All it takes is 2 bidders.

Grass to milk

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Anything out of the fleck will earn nice money. If you get 100 more for the calf it pays for allot of milk and no milking needed. Often wondered why dairy lads don't use more beef bulls like easy calving lims. The few days extra in the oven and lost milk is payed for hand over fist by the calf value.

You have two types of fleck too. German, more Holstein type cows, and Austrian, more British fr type cows. So depends on what your looking for or crossing them on. Celtic sires are good to chat to about the German types and Tonie o Leary in cork is sound to chat to about the Austrian type.

Yes but wrong way round. Tony has the German type and they aremore like the British Fr. Celtic sires have the Austrian type which are more like the Holstein.

Mooooo

Fleckveih are all well and good but looking at the incalf heifers I have not yet 24 months, they are gonna eat a fair bit more given their liveweight so unless as jay said they are crossed on high yielding cows I don't think they are the right option. May be proven wrong yet but as I switched to spring only this year I have a share of hol heifers calving at 30 months and the fleck are as big as em noe

whelan2

Anyone been at sales recently?

visatorro

Last week. Couple of fr bulls 50-80.
Couple of month old hr bulls 150.

I sold aa heifers for 100 out of the yard. Middling calves 3 weeks old.

whelan2

I sold 2 yesterday off the cow 2 and 3 months old Fr bull and Angus bull 400 for the 2. He also bought the cow.... He said he was at the mart and white Fr bulls from 20 euro..

visatorro

Had a cow with bad feet calf down with feck all milk. Angus bull and heifer, she was doing a good job with the calves. Calves about six weeks. 700 eur for all.

Gawddawggonnit

Calf agent called with a lorry of 50 hol bull calves...€50 for the lot.

I declined.

simx

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Calf agent called with a lorry of 50 hol bull calves...€50 for the lot.

I declined.

They must of been dire yokes

Bass Reeves

simx wrote: »

They must of been dire yokes

what makes you think that

simx

Bass Reeves wrote: »

what makes you think that

€1 each!

JeffKenna

simx wrote: »

€1 each!

Say that will be the going price for a lot of FR bull this year.

The timely publication of Teagasc research won't help either!

charolais0153

Prices were scandalous in the journal down in bandon iirc

Farney Farmer

Sold a few FR bulls yesterday. About 4 weeks old. €70

Mooooo

charolais0153 wrote: »

Prices were scandalous in the journal down in bandon iirc

What they make?

charolais0153

Mooooo wrote: »

What they make?

Dont have it with me but wh bulls over 300, ch calf over 400

Butcher Boy

Lads will get a fair hole opening with them light fr in the spring ,after giving over 100 for them last feb and march ,i have a brother that sold his 20 suck cows and bought 70 of them yokes he was going to sell them as yearlings he put them on dd and the local paper last week and not even a call about them in fairness they are done well .he dont have enough land to carry them all.

TooOldBoots

Butcher Boy wrote: »

Lads will get a fair hole opening with them light fr in the spring ,after giving over 100 for them last feb and march ,i have a brother that sold his 20 suck cows and bought 70 of them yokes he was going to sell them as yearlings he put them on dd and the local paper last week and not even a call about them in fairness they are done well .he dont have enough land to carry them all.

If we get a late spring those things will hardly make what he paid for them as calves the first day

Gawddawggonnit

simx wrote: »

They must of been dire yokes

Not necessarily.
I didn’t look at them so I can’t say.

Exporters are suffering from Bluetongue regulations in Spain and Holland. All calves need to be vaccinated and tested, then certified by a vet as carrying antibodies. Costs around €50 and 10-15 days of a delay, along with reams of paperwork.
The price normally tumbles at this time of year due to the glut of calves from the UK and Ireland anyhow.

IMO the Bluetongue crisis could put a floor on Irish calf prices this year.

Bass Reeves

Butcher Boy wrote: »

Lads will get a fair hole opening with them light fr in the spring ,after giving over 100 for them last feb and march ,i have a brother that sold his 20 suck cows and bought 70 of them yokes he was going to sell them as yearlings he put them on dd and the local paper last week and not even a call about them in fairness they are done well .he dont have enough land to carry them all.

TooOldBoots wrote: »

If we get a late spring those things will hardly make what he paid for them as calves the first day

I can never understand the mentality with relation to friesians. Is there much difference between getting 350-400 for a yearling Fr you paid sub 100 euro for and getting 400-450 for an AA you paid 200 euro for or 500 for a HE you paid 250-350 for. For that matter a JEX that makes 250(I would not pay it) that came in for a fiver is nearly the same margin.

If we get a late spring all lads selling stock will get there ass kicked. Present cattle prices dictate that FR calves should be in the 5-30 euro range at 10-14 days along with AA heifers, AA bull calves not much more unless you know that they are off a decent bull and HE sub 200 euro. As Dog says there may be a floor under Fr calves because of bluetongue but lads should not allow this to transfer to AA and HE calves. There is plenty of calves about it about calves to store men not letting themselves get carried away.

_Brian

Over €300 for hex is madness, no financial basis for that price at all.

As for ch sucks, we don’t even look at them, find they don’t really suit bucket rearing, they’re too soft. The few we’ve tried down the years were trouble.

TooOldBoots

€300 for hex, then add on the following

• Mart fees €6
• Transport costs €10
• Vet €20 (average + cost of testing)
• Milk powder 2 bags €82
• Ration 2 bags €18
• Grass €30
• Hay/silage 1 winter €100
• Labour €50
• Resale mart costs €10
• Second transport €10

€326 + €300 initial cost

Total €626
Current price of hex yearlings €500 - €700

Larry must be laughing at these guys

simx

TooOldBoots wrote: »

€300 for hex, then add on the following

• Mart fees €6
• Transport costs €10
• Vet €20 (average + cost of testing)
• Milk powder 2 bags €82
• Ration 2 bags €18
• Grass €30
• Hay/silage 1 winter €100
• Labour €50
• Resale mart costs €10
• Second transport €10

€326 + €300 initial cost

Total €626
Current price of hex yearlings €500 - €700

Larry must be laughing at these guys

Some lads have a fascination with tearing calves it’s like a problem they have, nice to see a calf do well under your care but the economics don’t stack up

_Brian

TooOldBoots wrote: »

€300 for hex, then add on the following

• Mart fees €6
• Transport costs €10
• Vet €20 (average + cost of testing)
• Milk powder 2 bags €82
• Ration 2 bags €18
• Grass €30
• Hay/silage 1 winter €100
• Labour €50
• Resale mart costs €10
• Second transport €10

€326 + €300 initial cost

Total €626
Current price of hex yearlings €500 - €700

Larry must be laughing at these guys

I think your overstating many costs there.

Plus, it’s costing €650/700 to produce suckled weanlings and huge numbers are being sold for €600/650 so Larry is laughing at nearly everyone in beef.

_Brian

simx wrote: »

Some lads have a fascination with tearing calves it’s like a problem they have, nice to see a calf do well under your care but the economics don’t stack up

Yea. We love it here.
Like any other beef enterprise, it turns a small profit but not enough.

But we find it more enjoyable than sucklers and when you enjoy something it’s never hard work (mostly) I had a crippling accident some years back and handling large cows is a no no.

TooOldBoots

_Brian wrote: »

I think your overstating many costs there.

Plus, it’s costing €650/700 to produce suckled weanlings and huge numbers are being sold for €600/650 so Larry is laughing at nearly everyone in beef.

I didn't even factoring in the other real costs of farming such as machinery,sheds,ESB,fuel,fencing,telephone,water...etc or factor in animal losses.
This system is being subsidized by the off farm income/ other half working / pensions etc

You really need to be buying a strong Hex Calves 3-6 weeks+ for less than €150 to have any chance.
I don't think the dairy boyz fancy pumping milk into them for that long.

And yes Larry is laughing at everyone in beef.

_Brian

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I didn't even factoring in the other real costs of farming such as machinery,sheds,ESB,fuel,fencing,telephone,water...etc or factor in animal losses.
This system is being subsidized by the off farm income/ other half working / pensions etc

You really need to be buying a strong Hex Calves 3-6 weeks+ for less than €150 to have any chance.
I don't think the dairy boyz fancy pumping milk into them for that long.

And yes Larry is laughing at everyone in beef.

Same costs for sucklers amd as many are propped up by off farm incomes and spouse earnings and of course sfp.

Only 1/3 of sucklers farms making money and I’d say same for calf to beef.

Larry is the only winner.

TooOldBoots

Suckler system has changed over the years. Before it was common to double suck the cows, so it was not costing anything extra to rear the second calf.
But then the whole thing changed to those big continental cows, hungry as fook, hard to handle yet they produce huge calves if you can stop them from dying at birth.
Same cows have no milk after 5 months which led to the creep feeder being used.

Bass Reeves

TooOldBoots wrote: »

€300 for hex, then add on the following

• Mart fees €6
• Transport costs €10
• Vet €20 (average + cost of testing)
• Milk powder 2 bags €82
• Ration 2 bags €18
• Grass €30
• Hay/silage 1 winter €100
• Labour €50
• Resale mart costs €10
• Second transport €10

€326 + €300 initial cost

Total €626
Current price of hex yearlings €500 - €700

Larry must be laughing at these guys

_Brian wrote: »

I think your overstating many costs there.

Plus, it’s costing €650/700 to produce suckled weanlings and huge numbers are being sold for €600/650 so Larry is laughing at nearly everyone in beef.

He would not be that far out. While two bags of milk powder is a lot, he has no straw cost in Transport might seem a bit high but calf ration at 18 euro is a bit low IMO. Wintering cost at 100 euro would be bang on for 120 day winter and you would not be pushing the weanlings. It would be about 1kg of ration and silage for 120 days

moll3

all i can say is finishing 24 month hd+aa heiffers is leaving at most 250 to 300 euro after two years of minding them thats out side of wadges or deaths

Buford T. Justice XIX

The good news, or bad news if you're buying, is that the WB Yeats has been approved for carrying cattle and with increased frequency so max use of Cherbourg lairages is expected to be made.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/breakthrough-on-calf-exports-department-436800