Calf price chitchat

Willfarman

where the f would you draw that from? Who was that?

Is loading 2 to 4 week calves that were well fed 12 14 hours before with access to water and forage considered animal cruelty?
That’s how I used to see it done and never seen any problem. When buying calves they were always famished by evening so milk was a no no. Always electrolytes first. I’d imagine with larger herds and poorer calf values the diligent early morning risers to feed sucky like some of the fine citizens on here are on the wane in the intervening years since and from an odd look about sales yard This is my MY OPINION. And I’m happy you have yours.

mahoney_j

Combination of shire weather been busy and lack of sleep is leaving some very tetchy!!!!

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

Combination of shire weather been busy and lack of sleep is leaving some very tetchy!!!!

It's not just here there's a bitchfest at the moment on a mammy forum I'm on. Pity it's not happening at the weekend popcorn would be needed

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

Combination of shire weather been busy and lack of sleep is leaving some very tetchy!!!!

The loss of the few pound, coming in from calf sales would be a fairly compounding factor too, it probably kept the house and wife in a few quid when the wait was on for the first milk Cheque to come in

Gawddawggonnit

I remember back in the seventies taking the horsebox to the local mart to buy a few calves. Bought a few for very small money and when I went to load them the horsebox was already full with calves that fellas didn’t want to take home...two years later they were worth a fortune!

When everyone is running in one direction it might pay to stroll in the opposite direction.

mahoney_j

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I remember back in the seventies taking the horsebox to the local mart to buy a few calves. Bought a few for very small money and when I went to load them the horsebox was already full with calves that fellas didn’t want to take home...two years later they were worth a fortune!

When everyone is running in one direction it might pay to stroll in the opposite direction.

Agree there’s calves been bought atm for very small money if there ain’t a twist in them in 24/30 months it’s all a matter and sure whilst I’m at it farmers buying bull calves and outbidding exporters need to ask themselves a few questions if there going to be forever crying wolf over beef prices there’s an active demand and market for fr and angus bulls for export let the exporters have them the beef man will be better off in long run .
I have sympathy for beef farmers tho factories are controlling the whole thing because they can (they know there’s a big supply of fr cattle out there)they pay what they feel and market it as prime beef wether it’s a fr or a contintenal

whelan2

In the farming independent new Ross mart manager said an exceptional ch bull calf fetched €530!!!!

Albert Johnson

whelan2 wrote: »

In the farming independent new Ross mart manager said an exceptional ch bull calf fetched €530!!!!

I never yet seen a mart manager to talk the trade down and those are the sort of headlines that grab people's attention. There will always be a few stand out prices in any sale, you'd probably fill a good sized lorry full of black and whites for similar money at the same sale. If I didn't detest the calf rearing job I'd nearly chance a bundle of goodish sucks at handy money, having said that they'll probably be as good of value as reared calves shortly.

mf240

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I remember back in the seventies taking the horsebox to the local mart to buy a few calves. Bought a few for very small money and when I went to load them the horsebox was already full with calves that fellas didn’t want to take home...two years later they were worth a fortune!

When everyone is running in one direction it might pay to stroll in the opposite direction.

That story is doing the rounds and everyone's grandfather or neighbours mother had the same thing happen.

Your spot on though this could be the year to rear calves

Buford T. Justice XIX

mf240 wrote: »

That story is doing the rounds and everyone's grandfather or neighbours mother had the same thing happen.

Your spot on though this could be the year to rear calves

It gave me a good start in cattle.



I went to the mart with my father selling a few calves and came away unsold. We went into the pub for soup and a sandwich and drove away home. When we got back there were a few extra calves in the back. I fed them morning and evening and sold them for good money as yearlings the next year.

Dakota Dan

whelan2 wrote: »

It's not just here there's a bitchfest at the moment on a mammy forum I'm on. Pity it's not happening at the weekend popcorn would be needed

They are a lot calmer over on fourum4farming.

Dakota Dan

mahoney_j wrote: »

Agree there’s calves been bought atm for very small money if there ain’t a twist in them in 24/30 months it’s all a matter and sure whilst I’m at it farmers buying bull calves and outbidding exporters need to ask themselves a few questions if there going to be forever crying wolf over beef prices there’s an active demand and market for fr and angus bulls for export let the exporters have them the beef man will be better off in long run .
I have sympathy for beef farmers tho factories are controlling the whole thing because they can (they know there’s a big supply of fr cattle out there)they pay what they feel and market it as prime beef wether it’s a fr or a contintenal

But there’s plenty expense in getting them to that stage, you’d still be better off paying extra for a good beef breed as they will cost the same to feed.

blue5000

Mod note

mahoney_j wrote: »

Combination of shire weather been busy and lack of sleep is leaving some very tetchy!!!!

This is it in a nutshell, try not to be sniping at each other please. Keep it on topic thanks.

K.G.

the problem is there is very little out of the beef game at the moment.kept beef calves last year and will be looking to sell them 1 st april.all ill say is if the prices continue where they are there wont be much out of them and even at that the buyer wont have much in 12 months time either.around here a good few lads have given up or retired from cattle and its not the "race for white gold",its just that there is no money in it.if you are to make money in cattle in ireland someone else has to lose.cattle between subs and price were nearly turning over twice what they are doing now 20 years ago

Reggie.

blue5000 wrote: »

Mod note



This is it in a nutshell, try not to be sniping at each other please. Keep it on topic thanks.

Awwww your no fun

whelan2

Just back from local calf sale. The most depressing sale I have ever been to. 4 fr bulls 4 weeks old 80 euro. 5 fr bulls 2 weeks old 26 euro each. Pair of Angus twins 4 weeks old small 20 euros. Alot of calves getting no bid. Was glad to get a bid at all...

JeffKenna

whelan2 wrote: »

Just back from local calf sale. The most depressing sale I have ever been to. 4 fr bulls 4 weeks old 80 euro. 5 fr bulls 2 weeks old 26 euro each. Pair of Angus twins 4 weeks old small 20 euros. Alot of calves getting no bid. Was glad to get a bid at all...

To be honest that's as well as any calf's got on with me this year.

What prices were AA's making?

Mooooo

Biggest fear I'd have if no bid would be disease risk coming back from mart either from something they pick up or stress related etc.
Would nearly want somewhere separate to put them ready if you thought there was a chance of it.
Haven't gone this week or last, had a run of heifers early so bulls coming now, altho the feckers are big calves, longer dry period I assume the main reason

Pidae.m

Main problem yesterday was young calves poorly fed. It's a sad sad fact.

Reggie.

Heard the same about local mart here. Lads said they never seen so much calves in the mart before and many not moving. Groups of black WHs for €60. Groups of 5 or 6. Lads must be mad to get them off thier hands. Know of a farmer with approx 350 JEX bulls that he can't shift

charolais0153

Reggie. wrote: »

Heard the same about local mart here. Lads said they never seen so much calves in the mart before and many not moving. Groups of black WHs for €60. Groups of 5 or 6.Lads must be mad to get them off thier hands. Know of a farmer with approx 350 JEX bulls that he can't shift

So a tenner a calf?

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Heard the same about local mart here. Lads said they never seen so much calves in the mart before and many not moving. Groups of black WHs for €60. Groups of 5 or 6. Lads must be mad to get them off thier hands. Know of a farmer with approx 350 JEX bulls that he can't shift

like a horror film now, the mind boggles at the thought of getting rid

Anto_Meath

I see on line there from Carnaross that there was about 300 calves in it, which would be a good lot for this time of year, in another month there will be nearly twice that but about half of them went for €25 or less, JEx for €5. Dairy farmers really need to look at what they are producing. There is two big dairy farmers beside me, 1 lad has good square Ho or British FR type cows which bring good calves ( I have feed some of his Fr bullocks into R- grading) he feeds his calves well really and looks after them, his calves always top the sale. The other lad is a miserable fecker, would be telling you it costs 7 cent a liter more to feed a calf whole milk over milk replacer, but his calves are always poor looking in the mart and local lads don't be interested in them as they know they didn't get a good start. Yet farmer 2 is the guy that Teagasc are advising lads to copy. But i know if I was milking cows I would be far happier copping farmer 1 and would be happier looking at his cattle too.

kk.man

charolais0153 wrote: »

So a tenner a calf?

Teagasc saw this coming down the line. They promoted dairy calf beef and when the beef price collapsed it has become a white elephant.

Lads paid too much for calves last year, the hassle and money tied up in the enterprise just didn't make sense.

Mooooo

The stormy weather of the last two weeks hasn't helped 're boats sailing either

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

Teagasc saw this coming down the line. They promoted dairy calf beef and when the beef price collapsed it has become a white elephant.

Lads paid too much for calves last year, the hassle and money tied up in the enterprise just didn't make sense.

At present beef prices are calves worth anything really, it'll be interesting to see the way this years batch get on through their life.

_Brian

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I see on line there from Carnaross that there was about 300 calves in it, which would be a good lot for this time of year, in another month there will be nearly twice that but about half of them went for €25 or less, JEx for €5. Dairy farmers really need to look at what they are producing. There is two big dairy farmers beside me, 1 lad has good square Ho or British FR type cows which bring good calves ( I have feed some of his Fr bullocks into R- grading) he feeds his calves well really and looks after them, his calves always top the sale. The other lad is a miserable fecker, would be telling you it costs 7 cent a liter more to feed a calf whole milk over milk replacer, but his calves are always poor looking in the mart and local lads don't be interested in them as they know they didn't get a good start. Yet farmer 2 is the guy that Teagasc are advising lads to copy. But i know if I was milking cows I would be far happier copping farmer 1 and would be happier looking at his cattle too.

The Calves from the dairy herd were given no thought during the expansion push. Now that all the calves are dropping the whole problem has surfaced.

Jex sucks carry little value and I can’t see where they will end even at €5. But more FR or Hex sucks won’t be popular either as they threaten the traditional suckler herd.

The consumer doesn’t care what colour of animal tue beef in their fridge came from. The dairy expansion has happened, a bit more to come too amd the system just has to find a balance and I presume that will include less suckler numbers.


I can say for us the sucks are a more profitable enterprise that sucklers. On marginal ground with long winters they seriously reduce tue wintering cost which for lads trying to manage themrough a 5-6 month winter with cows indoors is a big thing.

whelan2

JeffKenna wrote: »

To be honest that's as well as any calf's got on with me this year.

What prices were AA's making?

Not many Angus in it tbh. There was a few and you'd know they were je breeding in them. 130 ish for nice bulls

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

Biggest fear I'd have if no bid would be disease risk coming back from mart either from something they pick up or stress related etc.
Would nearly want somewhere separate to put them ready if you thought there was a chance of it.
Haven't gone this week or last, had a run of heifers early so bulls coming now, altho the feckers are big calves, longer dry period I assume the main reason

Ye oh was off in the jeep, I said to leave the trailer on in case I got no bids. He thought I was mad as I normally do well with calves

Reggie.

charolais0153 wrote: »

So a tenner a calf?

Not sure but surely 60 a head

Bass Reeves

Reggie. wrote: »

Know of a farmer with approx 350 JEX bulls that he can't shift

They can always be shifted. Problem is more than likely he always shifted them at 30-50/ calf and had it factored into his budget. To have 350 JEX calves he must be running 800+ cows and still in expansion mode. 350 calves at 30/ calf net of fees leaves over 10k compared to a net bill of 2-3k if they only attracted bids of 2-3 euro at the mart

whelan2

Anto_Meath wrote: »

I see on line there from Carnaross that there was about 300 calves in it, which would be a good lot for this time of year, in another month there will be nearly twice that but about half of them went for €25 or less, JEx for €5. Dairy farmers really need to look at what they are producing. There is two big dairy farmers beside me, 1 lad has good square Ho or British FR type cows which bring good calves ( I have feed some of his Fr bullocks into R- grading) he feeds his calves well really and looks after them, his calves always top the sale. The other lad is a miserable fecker, would be telling you it costs 7 cent a liter more to feed a calf whole milk over milk replacer, but his calves are always poor looking in the mart and local lads don't be interested in them as they know they didn't get a good start. Yet farmer 2 is the guy that Teagasc are advising lads to copy. But i know if I was milking cows I would be far happier copping farmer 1 and would be happier looking at his cattle too.

In Ardee today about 130 calves which is alot for there. Jex got no bid. Was talking to someone else who was in Carnaross and they said it was the same there. Good money for aa calves in Carnaross apparently

Reggie.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They can always be shifted. Problem is more than likely he always shifted them at 30-50/ calf and had it factored into his budget. To have 350 JEX calves he must be running 800+ cows and still in expansion mode. 350 calves at 30/ calf net of fees leaves over 10k compared to a net bill of 2-3k if they only attracted bids of 2-3 euro at the mart

He has 4 farms with about 450 cows in each. Sold all calves last year for €5 a head. No one touching him this year

Albert Johnson

Pidae.m wrote: »

Main problem yesterday was young calves poorly fed. It's a sad sad fact.

A combination of increased calf births on the back of recent dairy expansion, a poor beef price outlook and reduced exports due to short term weather concerns has led to a perfect storm for the calf market imo. It's unfortunate that such events have all occured in tandem but such an occurrence was never outside the bounds of possibility. The ease with which such a welfare issue has developed show's how little consideration was given to such a possibility by the powers that be.

The failings of our advisors to address the problems created by an ever present push to increase productivity is an increasingly common occurrence. There's no accountability within Teagasc or other state quangos when there "plan's" turn out to be little more than pipe dreams. As usual the burden of any fallout from this latest debacle will be passed onto the farmer, no doubt dairy calf to beef will be replaced by veal production as the saviour of the beef sector. There's always a new white elephant ready to be sold to the masses when the last house of cards comes tumbling down.

As food producers we were "green" before it was considered a concept, the focus in recent years has changed to mass production at any cost despite a growing world market that demands the complete opposite. Animal welfare was something that I always believed to be at the core of Irish agriculture, it has been one of the foundation blocks of our reputation and it's saddening to see the damage that the above scenario could cause. It's more apparent than ever that we cannot complete with factory farming commodity prices and it's insanity to attempt to compete, yet for reasons that I cannot understand such facts seem to have escaped the knowledge of our advisory services. I'm afraid that such a welfare issue will be short-lived however as we're going down a road of no return imo. Dairying as portrayed by such quangos has been heralded as the saviour of Irish agriculture in recent years but it's increasingly looking like the final nail in an already humble coffin for food production in this isle.

_Brian

Albert Johnson wrote: »

A combination of increased calf births on the back of recent dairy expansion, a poor beef price outlook and reduced exports due to short term weather concerns has led to a perfect storm for the calf market imo. It's unfortunate that such events have all occured in tandem but such an occurrence was never outside the bounds of possibility. The ease with which such a welfare issue has developed show's how little consideration was given to such a possibility by the powers that be.

The failings of our advisors to address the problems created by an ever present push to increase productivity is an increasingly common occurrence. There's no accountability within Teagasc or other state quangos when there "plan's" turn out to be little more than pipe dreams. As usual the burden of any fallout from this latest debacle will be passed onto the farmer, no doubt dairy calf to beef will be replaced by veal production as the saviour of the beef sector. There's always a new white elephant ready to be sold to the masses when the last house of cards comes tumbling down.

As food producers we were "green" before it was considered a concept, the focus in recent years has changed to mass production at any cost despite a growing world market that demands the complete opposite. Animal welfare was something that I always believed to be at the core of Irish agriculture, it has been one of the foundation blocks of our reputation and it's saddening to see the damage that the above scenario could cause. It's more apparent than ever that we cannot complete with factory farming commodity prices and it's insanity to attempt to compete, yet for reasons that I cannot understand such facts seem to have escaped the knowledge of our advisory services. I'm afraid that such a welfare issue will be short-lived however as we're going down a road of no return imo. Dairying as portrayed by such quangos has been heralded as the saviour of Irish agriculture in recent years but it's increasingly looking like the final nail in an already humble coffin for food production in this isle.

Dairying has brought profitability back to many farms and a chance that families can continue farming going forward.

I can’t see how ansuccessfuk dairy sector is the death of food production on this island, it definitely looks like it will change the profile of beef production, I’m not convinced that’s a bad thing, certainly consumers won’t care how their meat is bread or reared.

Albert Johnson

_Brian wrote: »

Dairying has brought profitability back to many farms and a chance that families can continue farming going forward.

I can’t see how ansuccessfuk dairy sector is the death of food production on this island, it definitely looks like it will change the profile of beef production, I’m not convinced that’s a bad thing, certainly consumers won’t care how their meat is bread or reared.

A sustainable dairy industry has and will continue to afford all the above benefits and more to farm families. I don't think that what's been sold to producers in recent years comes under the above category. Any industry that's suddenly saddled with an almost unsalable byproduct that once formed the basis of a thriving spin off industry has a problem imo.

I'm well aware of how consumers view food production as I'm as much a consumer as a farmer. They may not be that concerned about the margin returned to the primary producer but I'm certain they won't condone the blatant disregard being shown to dairy bred calves by some producers of late. I'm not attempting to tar all with the one brush but the actions of the few may still seal the fate of the many. Social media means secrets are hard to maintain in the modern world. Why will consumers pay a premium for what's being increasingly produced via factory farming methods when our main competitors using similar methods can undercut us significantly? I see us continuing to produce a sustainable product at a premium long-term or a commodity product at a premium price until the scandal breaks.

mahoney_j

Just slightly off topic but tegasc etc need to shoulder some of the blame on the current and future calfvsituation expansion and more cows heavily promoted but little to no thought to calves and what happens them to protect our green image .this situation has the poteintal to put a dark cloud on Irish dairying in years to come

wrangler

mahoney_j wrote: »

Just slightly off topic but tegasc etc need to shoulder some of the blame on the current and future calfvsituation expansion and more cows heavily promoted but little to no thought to calves and what happens them to protect our green image .this situation has the poteintal to put a dark cloud on Irish dairying in years to come

Farmers will follow the money and any advice to the contrary wouldn't be listened to no matter who was giving it.
Farmers not expecting a NZ situation regarding calves would be naive in the extreme with the expansion over the last few years ......especially the je bull calves which seem to be good for nothing.
If there was a solution to the calf problem it would've been sorted in NZ long ago, I know I nearly turned vegan on the spot when I saw a healthy live calf pegged into a trailer with dead ones

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

Just slightly off topic but tegasc etc need to shoulder some of the blame on the current and future calfvsituation expansion and more cows heavily promoted but little to no thought to calves and what happens them to protect our green image .this situation has the poteintal to put a dark cloud on Irish dairying in years to come

Calves were always seen as a by product by teagasc. Calves put food on the table here in February March most years. Rest of calf money goes for our holidays. Will be glad when the last of my fr calves are gone. Also one of the best calves I had to go today was a female on the card, would ye have chanced sending it?

Anto_Meath

whelan2 wrote: »

In Ardee today about 130 calves which is alot for there. Jex got no bid. Was talking to someone else who was in Carnaross and they said it was the same there. Good money for aa calves in Carnaross apparently

I had a look there, I see €290 for AAx bulls, a few around €200 bulls & heifers. But most seem to be selling around €130 - €150.

Danzy

Jersey calves and the real Holstein increasingly Friesian ones are not worth feeding till Mart age and not worth buying.

The only solution that makes trade sense is putting them down.

The problems surrounding that will have to be resolved.

When one sees the new bloodlines coming in to the dairy cow hard, this problem is going to have to be dealt with in the next few years. Doesn't matter the bull used when the Cow is like that.

_Brian

The question is why are lads taking them even at €5 ?

A stronger message back to tue dairy industry would be leave them deal with the problem.

Keepgrowing

Reggie. wrote: »

He has 4 farms with about 450 cows in each. Sold all calves last year for €5 a head. No one touching him this year

Is he farming in more than 1 county and not originally from your area?

Anto_Meath

_Brian wrote: »

The question is why are lads taking them even at €5 ?

A stronger message back to tue dairy industry would be leave them deal with the problem.

You will always get the lad who see a calf @ €5 & thinks he is value, then in October is crying when all he can get for him is €100. There is money to be made from rearing calves, but it has to be a decent calf, capable of an O grade carry about 350kgs DW and you have be prepared to go all the way to the hooke with them. All the better if you have them on it before the middle of August. They will gross you €1200 - €1300.

Bass Reeves

Anto_Meath wrote: »

_Brian wrote: »

The question is why are lads taking them even at €5 ?

A stronger message back to tue dairy industry would be leave them deal with the problem.

You will always get the lad who see a calf @ €5 & thinks he is value, then in October is crying when all he can get for him is €100. There is money to be made from rearing calves, but it has to be a decent calf, capable of an O grade carry about 350kgs DW and you have be prepared to go all the way to the hooke with them. All the better if you have them on it before the middle of August. They will gross you €1200 - €1300.

When producing cattle off grass growth rate is as important as grade. Give me a 350 kg P+ Bullock's at 26-28 months rather than a O= or O- weighting sub 300 kgs

Reggie.

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Is he farming in more than 1 county and not originally from your area?

He's country wide

mf240

Reggie. wrote: »

He's country wide

2200 cows if it's who im thinking of.

You'd buy good friesan calves for 30 to 50 euros. Hard to justify jersey calves even free.

White Clover

Albert Johnson wrote: »

A combination of increased calf births on the back of recent dairy expansion, a poor beef price outlook and reduced exports due to short term weather concerns has led to a perfect storm for the calf market imo. It's unfortunate that such events have all occured in tandem but such an occurrence was never outside the bounds of possibility. The ease with which such a welfare issue has developed show's how little consideration was given to such a possibility by the powers that be.

The failings of our advisors to address the problems created by an ever present push to increase productivity is an increasingly common occurrence. There's no accountability within Teagasc or other state quangos when there "plan's" turn out to be little more than pipe dreams. As usual the burden of any fallout from this latest debacle will be passed onto the farmer, no doubt dairy calf to beef will be replaced by veal production as the saviour of the beef sector. There's always a new white elephant ready to be sold to the masses when the last house of cards comes tumbling down.

As food producers we were "green" before it was considered a concept, the focus in recent years has changed to mass production at any cost despite a growing world market that demands the complete opposite. Animal welfare was something that I always believed to be at the core of Irish agriculture, it has been one of the foundation blocks of our reputation and it's saddening to see the damage that the above scenario could cause. It's more apparent than ever that we cannot complete with factory farming commodity prices and it's insanity to attempt to compete, yet for reasons that I cannot understand such facts seem to have escaped the knowledge of our advisory services. I'm afraid that such a welfare issue will be short-lived however as we're going down a road of no return imo. Dairying as portrayed by such quangos has been heralded as the saviour of Irish agriculture in recent years but it's increasingly looking like the final nail in an already humble coffin for food production in this isle.

Don't forget the role of Jack Kennedy and the IFJ in this mess too Albert.

Reggie.

mf240 wrote: »

2200 cows if it's who im thinking of.

You'd buy good friesan calves for 30 to 50 euros. Hard to justify jersey calves even free.

That's him.

Bass Reeves

_Brian wrote: »

The question is why are lads taking them even at €5 ?

A stronger message back to tue dairy industry would be leave them deal with the problem.

I can understand lads maybe trying to build up stock numbers. However it the same with some AA calves a real strong message needs to be send. the problem is it takes 3-5 years for the message to arrive and another 2-3 for it to be reacted to. Even then it takes 2-5 years to breed out the issue.
For instance breeding decisions have already been taken for this year. Straws bought, mopping up bulls insitu so actions take time. There is another issue calf value is secondary in the system. Large scale dairying with large herds is based on crossbreed cows and easy care management. The next step will be a bobby calf heading for kebabs. The real issue will be will tbis include the beef crossbreds as well. The use of easy calving bulls by these larger dairy farm for management reasons is widespread. Often without a real necessity but just as a lazy option. A black is a black. calf and a bull is worth 220 euro and a heifer is worth 150. But lads have wised up to this and calf rearers after being burnt are passing back the message. But what the outcome we will not know for 3-5 years.

The real question is will the dairy farmer go down the bobby calf route or try to breed out the issue