Calf price chitchat

alps

Picture this

Truly Grass Fed (TGF) - a natural dairy ingredients range from ####### Ireland has recently been Certified Animal Welfare Approved by A Greener World (AGW), which confirms that the ingredients are made with milk from cows that have been 95% grass-fed and are free to roam on Irish pastures for most of the year.

Launched in 2016, TGF ingredients are also Non-GMO Project Verified and rBST-free, the group said in a statement.

The Animal Welfare Approved certification is reportedly rated as having the highest impact on consumer purchasing of any food label (The Hartman Group) and is the only truly pasture-based welfare label, providing consumer confidence in an environment of loose claims such as 'Natural' or 'Humane.
Adendum
To ease the stocking burden on farm's, and as there is a vey poor outlet for the calves from the dairy herd, calves are humanely put down shortly after birth...

tanko

Ok, so does a tonne of milk powder produced in Ireland sell for more on world markets than a tonne produced in New Zelamd because of Irelands green image?
And if so, how much is the difference?

jaymla627

tanko wrote: »

Ok, so does a tonne of milk powder produced in Ireland sell for more on world markets than a tonne produced in New Zelamd because of Irelands green image?
And if so, how much is the difference?

Nope, and with the increased capacity in processing and billions gone into and planned in stainless I’d say Siobhan and Jim would nearly take care of your bull calf problem themselves once the milk keeps flowing in and increasing

mahoney_j

tanko wrote: »

Ok, so does a tonne of milk powder produced in Ireland sell for more on world markets than a tonne produced in New Zelamd because of Irelands green image?
And if so, how much is the difference?

So your saying money and destroying a country’s good image is ok life and farming is about so much more than money or at least it used to be.......

jaymla627

mahoney_j wrote: »

So your saying money and destroying a country’s good image is ok life and farming is about so much more than money or at least it used to be.......

The perfect storm has occurred this year with a huge increase in dairy herd size / slipping standards due to increased herd sizes means a lot of these calves even for free are a bad buy/ a piss-poor beef price/ delayed sailings and bottlenecks for the export trade and lack of labour facilities on farm to even facilitate rearing these calves mean we are where we are....
300-400k bull calves took out of the system at birth is probably needed to be fair to put some bit of demand on factories to pay for stock and avoid the roasting lads got this year finishing Freisan bulls etc

blackdog1

tanko wrote:

Ok, so does a tonne of milk powder produced in Ireland sell for more on world markets than a tonne produced in New Zelamd because of Irelands green image? And if so, how much is the difference?

No but we are the world's biggest exporter of butter and that sells at a premium price and has an image that has to be up kept.

patsy_mccabe

50 cents....60 cents anyone....anyone

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/cattle-mart-trade/calves-being-sold-for-as-little-as-50-cent-as-brexit-fallout-hits-home-dil-told-37909404.html

tanko

mahoney_j wrote: »

So your saying money and destroying a country’s good image is ok life and farming is about so much more than money or at least it used to be.......

No i don't think those things are ok, far from it. The bit of farming i do isn't done for the money anyway.

Gawddawggonnit

Holxlim half twin heifer calf sent off to the mart on Monday...15 days old and about the size of a lamb. Agent charges €30/hd for delivery etc.
Could it be possible that the weather isn’t the only issue...? Could it be that buyers on the continent are fed up of shyte stock?

GrasstoMilk

Keepgrowing wrote: »

I don’t see the problem actually. If it’s done properly with Dept supervision (as it is) and there’s a market for the meat (which there is).

It’s just a matter of a mind set change. There’s no welfare issue if done properly

And these factories will not take ****e either. 2 mates are hauling them and if the calves don't look well fed they aren't taken.

Albert Johnson

kk.man wrote: »

Teagasc etc have to be blamed. They told the dairy person to sell the male calves (rightly so) and they promoted the dairy calve to beef programme as the God saver of the drystock industry. They set up demo farms etc. All this was done to drive dairying. I'm not anti dairy but I am anti bad advise.
The back of a fag box calculation tells you it's a mugs game.

+1. I believe we were sold a pipe dream as regards dairy calf to beef in this country. By we I mean both beef and dairy farmers. The dairy farmer would produce the calf and us the beef farmers would gratefully rear the calf alongside contract rearing replacements and producing a budget supply of dry cow feed. This may have seemed like a milk suppliers utopia but alas nobody considered the concept of a financial return to the beef producers.
As above I'm fully committed to any sustainable agriculture industry that benefits all those involved not just the choice few primary producers. Irish dairying has outgrown it's sustainability in many cases imo, relying on us as beef producers to pay money for what is a byproduct just because we always have is a questionable business plan in my eyes. We the the beef producers are as entitled to a return on our investment as dairy farmers.

manjou

the only solution to the xbred is getting the cow to milk without calving. after that the biggest problem is going to be a welfare problem if calves cannot be sold. or given away and then that gets into news where suddenly high mortality rates in dairy herds will damage people's view of our image. the real solution is when they have to pay to get rid of them then when it starts to become an expence maybe then breeding policy may change

kk.man

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

50 cents....60 cents anyone....anyone

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/cattle-mart-trade/calves-being-sold-for-as-little-as-50-cent-as-brexit-fallout-hits-home-dil-told-37909404.html

You know what, it's depressing but on a positive its great headlines to highlight the plight of farmers now.
The farm organisations should be making the most out of it. There can be no one accused of crying 'wolf'.

patsy_mccabe

Still, you won't see headlines like this on the front of the journal.

whelan2

Spending my calf money from yesterday wisely

mf240

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Still, you won't see headlines like this on the front of the journal.

The farming independent had a vegan advert in the middle of it a few weeks back. :pac:

mf240

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

And these factories will not take ****e either. 2 mates are hauling them and if the calves don't look well fed they aren't taken.

Are they paying anything for the calves or just collect and take away

whelan2

mf240 wrote: »

Are they paying anything for the calves or just collect and take away

Or do you have to pay to get them killed?

grassroot1

whelan2 wrote: »

Spending my calf money from yesterday wisely

In the middle of lent god forgive you

whelan2

grassroot1 wrote: »

In the middle of lent god forgive you

Needs must

Buford T. Justice XIX

whelan2 wrote: »

Spending my calf money from yesterday wisely

How many calves was that?:D

whelan2

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

How many calves was that?:D

9 jex at 0.50

Say my name

blackdog1 wrote: »

No but we are the world's biggest exporter of butter and that sells at a premium price and has an image that has to be up kept.

Image won't pay the farmers bills though.

We're all told milk is a commodity by the coops when the price goes down. All that matters to the co-op is volume, fat and protein of that milk.
Glanbia and Dairygold couldn't give a toss where that milk came from or on what farming system that it was produced or what feed was fed to produce that milk or what breed of cow produced that milk or what happens to the bull calves from that cow.
All they care for and pay for is volume, fat and protein.

Say my name

manjou wrote: »

the only solution to the xbred is getting the cow to milk without calving. after that the biggest problem is going to be a welfare problem if calves cannot be sold. or given away and then that gets into news where suddenly high mortality rates in dairy herds will damage people's view of our image. the real solution is when they have to pay to get rid of them then when it starts to become an expence maybe then breeding policy may change

Breeding policy won't change because of this calf price storm. If anything it'll drive more over to the easier care, higher stocking rate, more solids on less bought in feed jerseys.
If a three week bf/hol calf is not making it's value in the milk it has consumed then breeders may as well go for the jersey and knock the bull calf on the head.

Co-ops don't care about the bull calves and will gladly take and pay more for the jerseys milk.

The only backlash that may occur in the future is a public one over the fate of dairy bulls and it'll either lead to a reduction of less sales of dairy or perhaps a differentiation of "ethical" milk producers and knocking on the heads producers.
Will jersey milk be banned in the future?
Not likely when the Glanbia's and Dairygold's only God is cash.

But then stranger things have happened in the food industry with a public backlash over the perception of dolphins getting harmed while tuna fishing and thousands having to be spent on dolphin friendly nets or risk a boycott of tuna altogether.
So who knows? We are still a European country with European consumers.

_Brian

whelan2 wrote: »

Spending my calf money from yesterday wisely

Good for you, work hard play hard !

GrasstoMilk

mf240 wrote: »

Are they paying anything for the calves or just collect and take away

Just collect and take away. The lads hauling them were getting a tenner a head at the start, don't know what the story is now as they're so hard to get into any factory. Lots of lads sending calves, be they friesan or jex

trixi2011

Have been watching this thread with interest the last while and really scratching my head over one thing. Everyone is talking about the export market and public opinions . What's the public opinion on calves been on lorries and boats for such long periods of time , would it not be more welfare friendly to Bobby at home and not put the stress on these calves ?

johnnyw20

trixi2011 wrote: »

Have been watching this thread with interest the last while and really scratching my head over one thing. Everyone is talking about the export market and public opinions . What's the public opinion on calves been on lorries and boats for such long periods of time , would it not be more welfare friendly to Bobby at home and not put the stress on these calves ?

I agree and they are going to get a bullet at some stage anyway so what’s the difference in getting it after a few hours or after 8 months after being hauled across Europe and confined to a pen until slaughter

whelan2

_Brian wrote: »

Good for you, work hard play hard !

Only had 2 had to get home for Liverpool game. Our goal celebrations would be a bit much for the local

Albert Johnson

trixi2011 wrote: »

Have been watching this thread with interest the last while and really scratching my head over one thing. Everyone is talking about the export market and public opinions . What's the public opinion on calves been on lorries and boats for such long periods of time , would it not be more welfare friendly to Bobby at home and not put the stress on these calves ?

That's a valid point and is another angle from which to view the current situation. I believe that live exports will come under increased pressure in coming years due to welfare concerns. That's why a certain amount of blame is accountable to the advisors who could only talk of dairy expansion at all costs in recent years. The status quo up until recently regarding dairy bred calf outlets was a combination of live exports and domestic calf rearers. Neither of these options are infallible as shown by recent events and no back up plan seems to be available from said advisors. The so called "Bobby" calf route is an unpalatable but increasingly popular possible solution. This whole debacle has opened a can of worms imo and is show casing the darker implications of poorly planned expansion.

alps

Gonna take some amount of calves to pay for an acre of silage this year....

Over 200 calves an acre

Reggie.

alps wrote: »

Gonna take some amount of calves to pay for an acre of silage this year....

Over 200 calves an acre

I'll know all about it this year

alps

Reggie. wrote: »

I'll know all about it this year

Do you want the cash....or the calves?

Reggie.

alps wrote: »

Do you want the cash....or the calves?

Have calves sorted

whelan2

Is it just Ireland that has the bad calf price at the moment or is it the same across Europe?

Gawddawggonnit

whelan2 wrote: »

Is it just Ireland that has the bad calf price at the moment or is it the same across Europe?

Excellent money for calves Atm.

Sent off 7 heifer calves last week, holxch 15days old, some made up to €290. Only one this week as I already posted.
I’m in a bluetongue area...

I beginning to think that buyers must be wising up to the xbred calves out of Ireland as there’s no other reason I can think of.

Gawddawggonnit

trixi2011 wrote: »

Have been watching this thread with interest the last while and really scratching my head over one thing. Everyone is talking about the export market and public opinions . What's the public opinion on calves been on lorries and boats for such long periods of time , would it not be more welfare friendly to Bobby at home and not put the stress on these calves ?

If dairy farmers, Teagasc and Dept didn’t see this coming they must be blind. When you slavishly follow the NZ system you’re going to equally import their problems...Bobby calves, environmental problems etc.
How it’s going to be dealt with is going to be a challenge as regards negative publicity, sustainability etc.
Irish dairy is already trying to brush some unpalatable issues under the carpet and to be killing male calves at birth...(?).
I’m not so sure.

Reggie.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

If dairy farmers, Teagasc and Dept didn’t see this coming they must be blind. When you slavishly follow the NZ system you’re going to equally import their problems...Bobby calves, environmental problems etc.
How it’s going to be dealt with is going to be a challenge as regards negative publicity, sustainability etc.
Irish dairy is already trying to brush some unpalatable issues under the carpet and to be killing male calves at birth...(?).
I’m not so sure.

It's something the industry is going to have to deal with

Bass Reeves

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Excellent money for calves Atm.

Sent off 7 heifer calves last week, holxch 15days old, some made up to €290. Only one this week as I already posted.
I’m in a bluetongue area...

I beginning to think that buyers must be wising up to the xbred calves out of Ireland as there’s no other reason I can think of.

There is 2-3 different reasons for the poor cal;f trade. calves were overpriced in Ireland always. Now there is more calves the price is dropping but mine you some lads buying out of yards still have not forced these prices down by walking away from a deals. Friesian bull were really discounted last winter by the processors. All bulls were but Fr have no other outlet if you want to slaughter them sub 24 months. We are after a second of no margin for winter finishers. Store prices have been low for the last 9 months because of the weather.

The crossbred calf issue is now rising its head it is not just these fr crosses but AA crosses and some dairy farmers starting to look ar easy calving HE bulls as well. Beef farmers can only sustain so much.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

If dairy farmers, Teagasc and Dept didn’t see this coming they must be blind. When you slavishly follow the NZ system you’re going to equally import their problems...Bobby calves, environmental problems etc.
How it’s going to be dealt with is going to be a challenge as regards negative publicity, sustainability etc.
Irish dairy is already trying to brush some unpalatable issues under the carpet and to be killing male calves at birth...(?).
I’m not so sure.

I really thinking lads making excuses for JK and Teagasc have a lot to answer. As you said the issue if NZ cross bred calves was obivious from the start and it was always that as more dairy calves came on stream that calf prices would drop. The push to get a cow to calf in short a period as possible and use easy calving low growth rate bulls was always going to cause an issue as well.

I bought my farm in late 2002. I looked at an out wintering pad and a lagoon as a cheap solution to my housing issue. However by 2005 I could see that wood chip would only get expensive due to energy costs. Because of this I held off build a shed and in 2008 when the high grand for sheds was there I build then. Yet JK et al were still promoting wood chip pads for nearly another 6-8 years. It the same with lagoons they have exactly the same issue. We now see that the days of outdoor cubicles is limited. Will it be easy or cheap to put a shed over these. Remember when you could out winter dairy cows with a stroke of a pen it was stopped as well. Remember the theory of scarfice paddocks.
You do not have top be a rocket scientist to see what changes will have to happen it is just a matter of keeping your eyes and ears open.

Mooooo

Where is this volume of crossbred calves?. Je straw usage is being over played, it's still sub 8%. All the blame being fired at dairy farmers with massive generalisations. Average herd size is still under 100 cow's, the collapse in beef price, bad weather for the boats etc has all effected things. You could ask how many suckler farmers are and have been supplementing Larry with the off farm job? Not saying it isn't an issue but rampant generalisations do fcukall for anything

Reggie.

Mooooo wrote: »

Where is this volume of crossbred calves?. Je straw usage is being over played, it's still sub 8%. All the blame being fired at dairy farmers with massive generalisations. Average herd size is still under 100 cow's, the collapse in beef price, bad weather for the boats etc has all effected things. You could ask how many suckler farmers are and have been supplementing Larry with the off farm job? Not saying it isn't an issue but rampant generalisations do fcukall for anything

It's not the straws only. Don't forget the cows themselves. 1000s of JEX calves around tge country and on DD not being sold. Theres an issue somewhere. Just the threat of a JEX in a AA calve is enough to ruin the trade. Too many lads never declared the JEX on the blue card the last few years and calf rearers got caught out. Once caught....twice shy

trixi2011

whelan2 wrote: »

Is it just Ireland that has the bad calf price at the moment or is it the same across Europe?

Had some beef calves go last week £50 for the youngest 10 day old Hereford up to £300 for 20 day old bbs. Would usually have people looking to buy off farm @ 250-300 at a month old no one looking this year .

kevthegaff

Lads I can't believe no one has seen how to fix the problem, get the beef men to contract rear our jex calves. ..

Reggie.

kevthegaff wrote: »

Lads I can't believe no one has seen how to fix the problem, get the beef men to contract rear our jex calves. ..

Don't worry it's coming did ya look in the journal by any chance

Bullocks

Reggie. wrote: »

It's not the straws only. Don't forget the cows themselves. 1000s of JEX calves around tge country and on DD not being sold. Theres an issue somewhere. Just the threat of a JEX in a AA calve is enough to ruin the trade. Too many lads never declared the JEX on the blue card the last few years and calf rearers got caught out. Once caught....twice shy

I don't know if they can blame the blue card for buying something with a bit of Jersey in them. I'm no great judge of stock but I can spot a narrow calf when I see one.
A neighbour brought me up to see his "fine" bbx bull calves last year. 2 of the were bbx to me and the rest fine holstien calves. Looking at them now and the fr is really shining through but he is blaming the bad start some dairy farmer gave them which is bs cis they were healthy shiny coated calves when he got them. I wouldnt dare suggest he shouldn't have bought them and either will he admit the same.

Reggie.

Bullocks wrote: »

I don't know if they can blame the blue card for buying something with a bit of Jersey in them. I'm no great judge of stock but I can spot a narrow calf when I see one.
A neighbour brought me up to see his "fine" bbx bull calves last year. 2 of the were bbx to me and the rest fine holstien calves. Looking at them now and the fr is really shining through but he is blaming the bad start some dairy farmer gave them which is bs cis they were healthy shiny coated calves when he got them. I wouldnt dare suggest he shouldn't have bought them and either will he admit the same.

Im like that fella. Not great at judging cattle. Luckily I've a good supplier

wrangler

Bullocks wrote: »

I don't know if they can blame the blue card for buying something with a bit of Jersey in them. I'm no great judge of stock but I can spot a narrow calf when I see one.
A neighbour brought me up to see his "fine" bbx bull calves last year. 2 of the were bbx to me and the rest fine holstien calves. Looking at them now and the fr is really shining through but he is blaming the bad start some dairy farmer gave them which is bs cis they were healthy shiny coated calves when he got them. I wouldnt dare suggest he shouldn't have bought them and either will he admit the same.

isn't that the problem with those dairy calves, after 2 -3 weeks adlib milk with the dairy farmers they look like real cattle. However the glow of the milk soon goes off them

patsy_mccabe

I remember buying friesian calves on farm years ago with the father. We coulld spend an hour deciding what we'd take. Farmers couldn't get over it. It was the thought of having a runt around the place that made us so picky. It usually paid off too, with most grading R's.

Never wrestle with pigs

Mooooo wrote: »

Where is this volume of crossbred calves?. Je straw usage is being over played, it's still sub 8%. All the blame being fired at dairy farmers with massive generalisations. Average herd size is still under 100 cow's, the collapse in beef price, bad weather for the boats etc has all effected things. You could ask how many suckler farmers are and have been supplementing Larry with the off farm job? Not saying it isn't an issue but rampant generalisations do fcukall for anything

Your forgetting the type of system these are being used on, low cost high volume. 2/3/4 hundred cow herds with kiwi fr which are small black and white not much better than je and jex cows. These lads only use a small amount of straws and let off a few bulls then. I know one lad near me that lets off 5 je bulls after a few weeks of AI. Makes sense as he's keeping his calving tighter and less expensive. But that's some amount of jex bull calves.

I said it here before and it got removed, they either need to ban the jex or take the wrap on their image and give them all the bullet as soon as they hit the ground. It's better for everyone. If they don't want to do that breed proper cows.

farisfat

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Your forgetting the type of system these are being used on, low cost high volume. 2/3/4 hundred cow herds with kiwi fr which are small black and white not much better than je and jex cows. These lads only use a small amount of straws and let off a few bulls then. I know one lad near me that lets off 5 je bulls after a few weeks of AI. Makes sense as he's keeping his calving tighter and less expensive. But that's some amount of jex bull calves.

I said it here before and it got removed, they either need to ban the jex or take the wrap on their image and give them all the bullet as soon as they hit the ground. It's better for everyone. If they don't want to do that breed proper cows.

Define a proper cow.