Calf price chitchat

stanflt

_Brian wrote: »

Hex for €90-100 ?
What were they like for that money ?

Really good quality tbh- I’d be tempted to buy if I hadn’t so much stock

Gawddawggonnit

No trade whatsoever for calves.
I’ve Chx, Bbx and Lmx that nobody will take for free...as usual.
Will keep them until May when there’ll be plenty buyers.

Pure Holstein heifers, well bred, are €80 at 2mts old.

patsy_mccabe

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

No trade whatsoever for calves.
I’ve Chx, Bbx and Lmx that nobody will take for free...as usual.
Will keep them until May when there’ll be plenty buyers.

Pure Holstein heifers, well bred, are €80 at 2mts old.

Keep quiet or you'll have Irish exporters/importers knocking at your door.:rolleyes:

Millionaire only not

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Keep quiet or you'll have Irish exporters/importers knocking at your door.:rolleyes:

Have u many of them Holstein heifers , the jersey lads will be looking for them yet!

visatorro

whelan2 wrote: »

Any angus prices?

55 outta the yard bulls or heifers.

JeffKenna

visatorro wrote: »

55 outta the yard bulls or heifers.

Do you mind me asking how your selling Angus calves this time of the year... What kind of system are you operating?

visatorro

I finished autumn
Calving on 20th of December.

Gawddawggonnit

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Keep quiet or you'll have Irish exporters/importers knocking at your door.:rolleyes:

The trade makes room for Irish calves. Therefore native calves can’t get sold until the Irish calves get washed through.

Every harvest a boat load or two of barley is imported into Irish ports around the first week of July, just as the wbarley harvest is about to start...to pressure prices down. Same crap here with Irish calves.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter too much because all I’ve to do is hold them until May and trade should be strong again. I can’t understand why there’s so much uproar from dairy farmers about having to hold calves for longer.

mahoney_j

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

The trade makes room for Irish calves. Therefore native calves can’t get sold until the Irish calves get washed through.

Every harvest a boat load or two of barley is imported into Irish ports around the first week of July, just as the wbarley harvest is about to start...to pressure prices down. Same crap here with Irish calves.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter too much because all I’ve to do is hold them until May and trade should be strong again. I can’t understand why there’s so much uproar from dairy farmers about having to hold calves for longer.

I’d have no issue holding calves till May if they covered costs and left a decent margin ,as is most lads want fr bulls gone asap before they start costing them money,calves in most Irish dairy farms are well cared for up to that stage

Castlekeeper

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

The trade makes room for Irish calves. Therefore native calves can’t get sold until the Irish calves get washed through.

Every harvest a boat load or two of barley is imported into Irish ports around the first week of July, just as the wbarley harvest is about to start...to pressure prices down. Same crap here with Irish calves.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter too much because all I’ve to do is hold them until May and trade should be strong again. I can’t understand why there’s so much uproar from dairy farmers about having to hold calves for longer.

The days of the wife or mother minding the calves are gone on most farms with time, social change, and scale, and most male farmers are not interested or crap at the job. Now it's not a big deal rearing calves if you're interested, are skilled, and accordingly set up for the job, but throw poor/ inadequate set ups, low interest, or skill levels at the job in a spring block calving system and at some stage in a lot of places, you get a yard full of sick calves that would break anyone physically and mentally.
So a lot of dairy farmers want them out the gap.

jaymla627

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

The trade makes room for Irish calves. Therefore native calves can’t get sold until the Irish calves get washed through.

Every harvest a boat load or two of barley is imported into Irish ports around the first week of July, just as the wbarley harvest is about to start...to pressure prices down. Same crap here with Irish calves.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter too much because all I’ve to do is hold them until May and trade should be strong again. I can’t understand why there’s so much uproar from dairy farmers about having to hold calves for longer.

Be fairly sore hit to take for the large crossbreed herds, 150 bull calves brought to 12 weeks old. Say sold for 70 euro, with it costing 200 all in to get them to 12 weeks, would leave a 20k loss, totally unacceptable to a low cost grass based farmer.

Bass Reeves

Problem is the Irish dairy expansion modeling was based on as Teagasc stated ''did not include the calf''. This was not just at birth to 6 weeks but to slaughter. It was assumed that calves would wash through the system

Dwag is the trade better or worse than last year. It is easier in most of France to carry calves than in Ireland a dryer climate allows calf rearing outside I imagine that reduces issues with health.

The Irish plan failed to connect the dots of what would happen on the case of poor beef prices or a climb in Irish beef production. We are still behind the curve with export being seen as not just the short term but also medium term answer. Last year we exported 300k calves and weanlings/yearlings. That is 6k/ week. The processor's must be licking there lips at the taught of exports ceasing in the medium to long-term. Unless we see suckler's number reduce substantially with the extra dairy cow kill we are looking at a weekly kill hitting 45k at times if exports are stopped.

The answer is starring us in the face but nobody is willing to speak out loudly about it. Most assume extra production is extra profit. Most of us know different.

Up to now you need one lad to make a loss/ minimum profit for intensive finisher to have a margin. Now you will need two if exports are stopped......the dairy man will be the second to take the loss.

Castlekeeper

jaymla627 wrote: »

Be fairly sore hit to take for the large crossbreed herds, 150 bull calves brought to 12 weeks old. Say sold for 70 euro, with it costing 200 all in to get them to 12 weeks, would leave a 20k loss, totally unacceptable to a low cost grass based farmer.

Just add a new line into the varable costs on the profit monitor, true costs of production and all that.

Mooooo

Kept most calves till 5 or 6 weeks. Stupid tb rules meant that after a certain date mine couldn't go for export and if over 6 weeks would have to be kept till next test in june/ July. Reason I held longer was to hopefully have a stronger calf for Irish buyer. Calves sold before that rule effected me made 70 to 100 at 4 week average, calves sold after that that couldn't go for export sold at 30 at the 5/ 6 weeks both fr and aa. It's the export puts the floor on the market

Hard Knocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Problem is the Irish dairy expansion modeling was based on as Teagasc stated ''did not include the calf''. This was not just at birth to 6 weeks but to slaughter. It was assumed that calves would wash through the system

Dwag is the trade better or worse than last year. It is easier in most of France to carry calves than in Ireland a dryer climate allows calf rearing outside I imagine that reduces issues with health.

The Irish plan failed to connect the dots of what would happen on the case of poor beef prices or a climb in Irish beef production. We are still behind the curve with export being seen as not just the short term but also medium term answer. Last year we exported 300k calves and weanlings/yearlings. That is 6k/ week. The processor's must be licking there lips at the taught of exports ceasing in the medium to long-term. Unless we see suckler's number reduce substantially with the extra dairy cow kill we are looking at a weekly kill hitting 45k at times if exports are stopped.

The answer is starring us in the face but nobody is willing to speak out loudly about it. Most assume extra production is extra profit. Most of us know different.

Up to now you need one lad to make a loss/ minimum profit for intensive finisher to have a margin. Now you will need two if exports are stopped......the dairy man will be the second to take the loss.

The concern I have is lads quitting sucklers are going milking, which means more calves

Anto_Meath

Teagasc have dairy farmers drove mad. I met a dairy farmer yesterday. He has 400 cows calving in 6 weeks. Gives away all bull calves the minute they are 10 days FOC, they are all high milking bred Frs. He told meTeagasc has advised him that every cow should have calved by 1st March and that any cow that repeats is costing him €200 in lost milk production... that doesnt make sence to me. He is farming in Cavan it wouldnt be known to be the earliest part of the country for grass production..

Reggie.

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Teagasc have dairy farmers drove mad. I met a dairy farmer yesterday. He has 400 cows calving in 6 weeks. Gives away all bull calves the minute they are 10 days FOC, they are all high milking bred Frs. He told meTeagasc has advised him that every cow should have calved by 1st March and that any cow that repeats is costing him €200 in lost milk production... that doesnt make sence to me. He is farming in Cavan it wouldnt be known to be the earliest part of the country for grass production..

The so called "Experts"

Anto_Meath

Reggie. wrote: »

The so called "Experts"

Ya, as far as I could make out this lad is working to the Teagasc advisor wishes. But the advisor is treating his farm the same as one in the South East...

Reggie.

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Ya, as far as I could make out this lad is working to the Teagasc advisor wishes. But the advisor is treating his farm the same as one in the South East...

They will ruin him

the full back

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Teagasc have dairy farmers drove mad. I met a dairy farmer yesterday. He has 400 cows calving in 6 weeks. Gives away all bull calves the minute they are 10 days FOC, they are all high milking bred Frs. He told meTeagasc has advised him that every cow should have calved by 1st March and that any cow that repeats is costing him €200 in lost milk production... that doesnt make sence to me. He is farming in Cavan it wouldnt be known to be the earliest part of the country for grass production..

Surely its up to each individual farmer to make their own decisions about what happens on their farm? Teagasc never put a gun to anyones head and said they have to expand or farm in a certain way

whelan2

the full back wrote: »

Surely its up to each individual farmer to make their own decisions about what happens on their farm? Teagasc never put a gun to anyones head and said they have to expand or farm in a certain way

The buck stops with the farmer. No 2 farms are the same.

Water John

Even a solt advises the client, the client makes the decision.

wrangler

Water John wrote: »

Even a solt advises the client, the client makes the decision.

Blamjng someone else is very common, that carry on is only making themselves out to be simple,
I always did my own thing here, and I've had plenty of advisers on this farm.

Panch18

the full back wrote: »

Surely its up to each individual farmer to make their own decisions about what happens on their farm? Teagasc never put a gun to anyones head and said they have to expand or farm in a certain way

It is up to the farmer

But you would expect the advice that you’d receive from the national advisory service to be rounded and be considering many factors, aspects and types of farming

The fact is it’s not - and whether we like or not teagasc are a major guiding force in Irish Agri

NovemberWren

Hard Knocks wrote: »

The concern I have is lads quitting sucklers are going milking, which means more calves

as a townie, one would have thought that science could prolong the time that a cow could give milk, without extra calves.

Water John

Cows would milk on a second year but yield would be very low.

Buford T. Justice XIX

NovemberWren wrote: »

as a townie, one would have thought that science could prolong the time that a cow could give milk, without extra calves.

Calving is timed to coincide with the grass growth pattern for the region the farm is in.

Peak grass intake to coincide with peak grass growth and peak energy demand.

NovemberWren

Water John wrote: »

Cows would milk on a second year but yield would be very low.

are there no ways of injecting hormones, at end of first year.

or, must calves be full-term. might not embryonic, make enough hormones.

Buford T. Justice XIX

NovemberWren wrote: »

are there no ways of injecting hormones, at end of first year.

or, must calves be full-term. might not embryonic, make enough hormones.

The mammary tissues require a period of rest and recuperation to reform tissues before calving again, normally a period of 6 weeks minimum and a few weeks longer in cases.

BST was commonly used in US dairy farms but the margins weren't there for long term use with low milk prices so it's not all that common right now.

NovemberWren

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The mammary tissues require a period of rest and recuperation to reform tissues before calving again, normally a period of 6 weeks minimum and a few weeks longer in cases.

BST was commonly used in US dairy farms but the margins weren't there for long term use with low milk prices so it's not all that common right now.

so, BST may have been some way to halt a calf before full-term?

Individual farm, or areas; branding; of milk, might increase prices.

Mooooo

Hormones are illegal to use in the EU.

NovemberWren

Mooooo wrote: »

Hormones are illegal to use in the EU.

Impress on housewives in this country; just exactly the reality (to calves) that that cheap milk is.

And the real cost is: slaughter.

They should be made fully aware. and perpetually so.

Water John

Haven't heard the term, 'housewives' used in a long time. No problem with the reality. Calves are reared for 2 years for their meat.

Buford T. Justice XIX

NovemberWren wrote: »

so, BST may have been some way to halt a calf before full-term?

Individual farm, or areas; branding; of milk, might increase prices.

No, BST was given to prolong peak lactation and extend the lactation curve for a few months extra. It had no effects on calf term or viability, just to hold and increase lactation length.

Bass Reeves

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Teagasc have dairy farmers drove mad. I met a dairy farmer yesterday. He has 400 cows calving in 6 weeks. Gives away all bull calves the minute they are 10 days FOC, they are all high milking bred Frs. He told meTeagasc has advised him that every cow should have calved by 1st March and that any cow that repeats is costing him €200 in lost milk production... that doesnt make sence to me. He is farming in Cavan it wouldnt be known to be the earliest part of the country for grass production..

At the end of the day he has to make the call himself. Teagasc advice can vary and advisor's can vary from excellent to poor. I sometimes question lads that cannot analysis advice. How did he get to 400 cows if he cannot make decisions himself. At the end of the day he should be able to cost his own system. He should know if the 200 euro in extra milk production is worth chasing. Having 400 cows on heavy ground calved by march 1st may not be cost effective.

Mooooo

In a spring system where cow's are dried off, late cow's are milking less days so have less output. Heavy ground makes little odds as they are going to be fed silage either in spring or winter. Winter milk prob makes more sense in heavy areas to counter act wet springs and autumns assuming the pricing is correct of course

K.G.

Mooooo wrote: »

In a spring system where cow's are dried off, late cow's are milking less days so have less output. Heavy ground makes little odds as they are going to be fed silage either in spring or winter. Winter milk prob makes more sense in heavy areas to counter act wet springs and autumns assuming the pricing is correct of course

That all being said its no fun to handle all these cows calvong together. Straight sums might say one thing to you but you have to take the actual intensity of those weeks,bringing labour for those weeks is not available. So maybe there is a logic to making the season less intense. The potential profit from all cows calving at the right time could easily disappear in problems that snowball during that intense period.the most important thing on any dairy business is you and a slip up during that period ould derail the whole year.

Bass Reeves

Mooooo wrote: »

In a spring system where cow's are dried off, late cow's are milking less days so have less output. Heavy ground makes little odds as they are going to be fed silage either in spring or winter. Winter milk prob makes more sense in heavy areas to counter act wet springs and autumns assuming the pricing is correct of course

Most processor's pay little extra for winter milk. The question is are you in reality losing 200 euro per late calving cow.
Yes in milk production alone you are. But s high replacement rate has costs as well. Cull cow values have dropped significantly over the last 2 years. As well for every cow you intend to replace you need to breed two cows to replacement FR bull's through AI. Some cows will be pulled back naturally anyway. The difference in calf value should exceed 100+/calf in normal years but maybe not this year

A lot depends on your system but bland advice looking at milk production alone is a lazy advisor

Anto_Meath

Correct Bass, you seem to be a very good farmer with everything worked out for your farm. But what suits you wouldn't suit me. What I see Teagasc doing is turning farmers into slaves to reach bland targets set by advisers who wouldn't take the risks themselves. I know its up to every farmer to make his / her own decision for what happens inside their own farm, but they also employ advisers to point them in the right direction and as far as I can see with Teagasc is they are reciting the text book and then pointing everyone in the one direction.

Reggie.

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Correct Bass, you seem to be a very good farmer with everything worked out for your farm. But what suits you wouldn't suit me. What I see Teagasc doing is turning farmers into slaves to reach bland targets set by advisers who wouldn't take the risks themselves. I know its up to every farmer to make his / her own decision for what happens inside their own farm, but they also employ advisers to point them in the right direction and as far as I can see with Teagasc is they are reciting the text book and then pointing everyone in the one direction.

Why the targets by the advisers. Is it an ego thing

Water John

It's the old KISS formula. Keep it simple stupid. The advisor is taught that way and he uses the same with the farmer. One list of instructions.

Bass Reeves

Water John wrote: »

It's the old KISS formula. Keep it simple stupid. The advisor is taught that way and he uses the same with the farmer. One list of instructions.

And the farmer should adapt the same principle. Maybe the advisor is right maybe the farmer has 35%+ of his herd calving after March 1st.

I suspect here the farmers is unsure about the advice. He needs a second opinion. Here is where discussion groups come into play. But you need lads to speak up and not get offender by criticism.

The farmers has to look at what is sustainable for him. Is his system capable of maintaining an earlier mean calving day. He should look at %of cows calving in 14day periods after march 1st. What replacement rate will it require to remove these cows from the system and what rate to maintain it.

The cost of a replacement is the cost of bringing replacement heifer to calf down minus cull cow value and beef calf value. Most farmers seem to be costing a replacement heifer at 1400euro, is a good cull worth 550out of the parlour in November. Is the beef bull calf over the FR bull worth 100extra and the beef heifer instead of Fr heifer another100euro. If so net replacement cost is a bit with 1k.

The 200/cow in extra milk value is maybe 150net of extra feed costs so a 7year pay back. However if you were only culling April cows the payback might be 350/cow leaving it as a three year pay back timeframe.

What you really look at is how high do you push your cull rate to achieve optimum return. There is no point in being a busy fool

yewtree

Farming in mayo here so not the earliest part of the country. I still want to calve as many cows in February as possible. I much perfer to be busy for a shorter period of time. Always find april calves the hardest work. Will calve 130 here this year myself and some relief help. 75% will calve in February and if it was possible i would perfer the whole lot to calve in February. I would be well set up with calving and calf shed, we use to have a spread out calving pattern and i found it a lot harder work

Sheep breeder

yewtree wrote: »

Farming in mayo here so not the earliest part of the country. I still want to calve as many cows in February as possible. I much perfer to be busy for a shorter period of time. Always find april calves the hardest work. Will calve 130 here this year myself and some relief help. 75% will calve in February and if it was possible i would perfer the whole lot to calve in February. I would be well set up with calving and calf shed, we use to have a spread out calving pattern and i found it a lot harder work

Fair play to you, everybody has to set targets for their farm and system, as an old lecturer in ag college use to say every farmer is outstanding in his own field.

whelan2

See a lad offering a 3 day old limx bull calf for 400 euro on one of the farming facebook groups. Surely no one would pay that ????

farming93

The uncle got €390 for a lmx fr calf in the mart less than two weeks ago.. €210 for a red limo heifer that I wouldn't of given €70 for. If I hadn't of seen what cow she was off I would of that she was a Jersey cross she was that narrow.

Mooooo

Got 130 for 3 week old aa heifers both came off the cows. One more square than the other but nice calves

Panch18

Neighbour got 125 for a nice Fr bull only 2 weeks old

WH made 120, not sure of age but quality wasn’t great now

whelan2

Any prices recently?

Bass Reeves

Mooooo wrote: »

Got 130 for 3 week old aa heifers both came off the cows. One more square than the other but nice calves

Hate to buy calves that come off cows especially if gone beyond two weeks if age. It brutal trying to get them to change over to either nippke feeders or buckets.