Calf price chitchat

straight

Bass Reeves wrote: »

So are my costing right or wrong before we go down that rabbit hole

Looks like your costings say 385 euro as far as turnout at 12months. I'd say there's plenty to be saved in that especially seeing as the dairy farmer has most of the heavy lifting done. Plenty fellas will be paying 600 in the mart for the same thing.

Bass Reeves

straight wrote: »

Looks like your costings say 385 euro as far as turnout at 12months. I'd say there's plenty to be saved in that especially seeing as the dairy farmer has most of the heavy lifting done. Plenty fellas will be paying 600 in the mart for the same thing.

We have dairy farmers telling us that it costs 1500 euro to produce a dairy heifer from birth to calving

Mooooo

Costings aren't far off at all, only one I'd have issue with is if you put the calf at 300 euro, most in that price bracket would be in the 4 to 6 week bracket, not 2 weeks, which would reduce rearing and vet/ mortality figures a bit. Anyone serious about making a go at calves would buy them this time of year anyway as prices are lower. Highest price fr I ever sold would be autumn calves or those sold in April/ May/ June. Autumn ones I'd actually say fair enough as they can make use of the first summer of grass much better but the prices paid for calves in the later spring/ early summer can be daft

mahoney_j

straight wrote: »

Beef farmers can't be bothered feeding calves as they'd have to get up too early in the morning. They'll gladly pay 500 - 600 for them out of the shed 12 months later. Alot of fr bulls for small money can be put on once a day milk, a few bits of hay/straw and out to grass in a few weeks. No wonder they can't make money as they love being the big man paying too much for older stock.

Either pulling the piss with that statement or been a smart ass .....shocking statement

DukeCaboom

1700 calves in Bandon today

Bass Reeves

Mooooo wrote: »

Costings aren't far off at all, only one I'd have issue with is if you put the calf at 300 euro, most in that price bracket would be in the 4 to 6 week bracket, not 2 weeks, which would reduce rearing and vet/ mortality figures a bit. Anyone serious about making a go at calves would buy them this time of year anyway as prices are lower. Highest price fr I ever sold would be autumn calves or those sold in April/ May/ June. Autumn ones I'd actually say fair enough as they can make use of the first summer of grass much better but the prices paid for calves in the later spring/ early summer can be daft

From what I see any decent HE bull calf is making between 250-300 euro 16-25 days. These calves would be the most suitable for winter finishing. March calves will end up being on grass longer on second autumn, lighter hitting the shed and have to be maybe put on a growing diet for 4-8 weeks before finishing in late March/ April. You can add what ever is saved on the calf to extra finishing costs

Siamsa Sessions

Anyone selling 10-15 FR heifer calves?

I had them "booked" with a local man here but he's gone silent with the last week.

Any back-breeding would be considered and ideally you'd be around south-east of the country.

Thanks.

UPDATE: got sorted with another neighbour so all good. As ever, some lads will talk big but others will actually deliver.

Say my name

mahoney_j wrote: »

Either pulling the piss with that statement or been a smart ass .....shocking statement

Is it shocking when the same author sold a fr bull calf as a yearling for over €700 when they brought the same calf home from the Mart the year before?
Sounds like they know what they're at.

Lots of words in this thread which at the end of the day mean nothing.

whelan2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I do not know what system he is at but unless SFP ( which it cannot) is covering his rental costs he is at nothing. I say it was a case of mine is bigger than yours.

Some noose around his neck for 7 years

White Clover

DukeCaboom wrote: »

1700 calves in Bandon today

How much for the 1700

GrasstoMilk

whelan2 wrote: »

Bb4286

I've a cow due to him in the next week, did he go long over his time?

whelan2

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

I've a cow due to him in the next week, did he go long over his time?

According to icbf she was not due to calve until 8th of March. Will look her ai date up ltr. Served 24/05 calved 27/02. Do didn't carryover too far

Mooooo

Calves coming relatively big here as well. First vet assisted calving this morning, leg down no space to right it without the epidural, jacked out the calf big enough for a fr 5 days early

stanflt

Sold some calves today
One 3 week old made 70€
4 made 40
7 made 20
And 11 small ones off heifers made a whopping 5€

Hard Knocks

stanflt wrote: »

Sold some calves today
One 3 week old made 70€
4 made 40
7 made 20
And 11 small ones off heifers made a whopping 5€

Bet you’re happy to see them gone

Siamsa Sessions

stanflt wrote: »

Sold some calves today
One 3 week old made 70€
4 made 40
7 made 20
And 11 small ones off heifers made a whopping 5€

All FR and JE bulls?

stanflt

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Bet you’re happy to see them gone

Tbh I’m delighted- I was half worried that nobody would buy them

stanflt

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

All FR and JE bulls?

All hol/fr no jersey

lab man

Any account of prices in bandon today lads

stanflt

RedPeppers wrote: »

Been cursing that same bull here last few days. Had two 6th calvers calve down to him at weekend. Two massive bull calves that I just managed to get with the jack. One of the cows has retained the cleanings so no more blues here either. Had used DBZ in the past and never any issues. One more incalf to the same bull hoping its not more of the same

I’m really happy with this bull- really really good calves out of him

RedPeppers

stanflt wrote: »

I’m really happy with this bull- really really good calves out of him

Very good calves probably worth 300-400 but not much good when I’ve a cow that hasn’t cleaned. First time that’s happened here in over 5 years. Should stick to Angus - lesson learned

jd_12345

straight wrote: »

Beef farmers can't be bothered feeding calves as they'd have to get up too early in the morning. They'll gladly pay 500 - 600 for them out of the shed 12 months later. Alot of fr bulls for small money can be put on once a day milk, a few bits of hay/straw and out to grass in a few weeks. No wonder they can't make money as they love being the big man paying too much for older stock.

Surely taking the piss or trying to start a row. Keep all our calves here partly due to land restraints and partly due to us liking the cashflow but that's an awful statement. It makes much more sense paying 500/600 for year old bullocks. You'll have much fewer losses, much less hardship and at that sort of money you're more or less getting it at cost. Bare in mind there are lads out there looking for 500 for 3 week old friesian heifer calves just cause the farmer has picked the bull at the top of the list for the last 6/7 years! 500 at a year of age is barely cost! Do you keep your own calves and sell them at that money?

JeffKenna

jd_12345 wrote: »

Surely taking the piss or trying to start a row. Keep all our calves here partly due to land restraints and partly due to us liking the cashflow but that's an awful statement. It makes much more sense paying 500/600 for year old bullocks. You'll have much fewer losses, much less hardship and at that sort of money you're more or less getting it at cost. Bare in mind there are lads out there looking for 500 for 3 week old friesian heifer calves just cause the farmer has picked the bull at the top of the list for the last 6/7 years! 500 at a year of age is barely cost! Do you keep your own calves and sell them at that money?

Why are you comparing FR bulls and heifers? Makes no sense.

Mooooo

Jjameson wrote: »

No mention of the mishaps, vets, knackaries and the calf that survived to be a lifelong screw.
No mention of land labour capital or fixed costs.

He threw in a figure for vets and mortality, bass doesn't include the second part

straight

jd_12345 wrote: »

Surely taking the piss or trying to start a row. Keep all our calves here partly due to land restraints and partly due to us liking the cashflow but that's an awful statement. It makes much more sense paying 500/600 for year old bullocks. You'll have much fewer losses, much less hardship and at that sort of money you're more or less getting it at cost. Bare in mind there are lads out there looking for 500 for 3 week old friesian heifer calves just cause the farmer has picked the bull at the top of the list for the last 6/7 years! 500 at a year of age is barely cost! Do you keep your own calves and sell them at that money?

It doesn't make sense to me to pay 5 or 600 euro for yearlings verses 20 euro for a calf a month old. Can't make sense of that so the only reason I can see is that fellas are too lazy to feed the calves. As for losses, they are kept to a minimum here. You lost me totally on the second half of your story about fr heifers.

mr.stonewall

straight wrote: »

It doesn't make sense to me to pay 5 or 600 euro for yearlings verses 20 euro for a calf a month old. Can't make sense of that so the only reason I can see is that fellas are too lazy to feed the calves. As for losses, they are kept to a minimum here. You lost me totally on the second half of your story about fr heifers.

Its taking the variables out of the equation, I think, it's lot of risk with the young calf. At least with a frx yearling you can gauge how long it will take to get him over the line/ up the line. Have been there and done the calf to beef job, with frx, still doing calf to beef. The killer with them is the time to get a return, trying to get them away under 30 months is a struggle. The feed conversion on meal is poor compared to the feed conversion on traditional breeds. Breeding is also half influenced by the dam. The effects do jex breeding is being felt now and lads not willing to take the risk with frx calves, odds of a return might be better in Vegas. At the beef game it's just simples weight pays. Get the weight on as efficient/ profitable as you can to suit your system is the name of the game.

Still think the pricing is mental on this year on the calf price, trying to get a margin on anything other than fr is tricky this year. Will be avoiding fr bulls due to the serious variablity in calf quality and that even within herds

atlantic mist

do beef costing include the single farm payment as part of their income? seening plenty of costings here but all leave out a vital source of income, could be up to 400 an acre in some cases, thats prob an extra 200 on each animal profit wise!!

any beef farms i know of have a lot of stacked entiltments, they are not as poor as they currently make out, when it flattens it will be interesting in two years time

only way factories will pay more is if SFP is scrapped, until then its the same as were told in dairy they'll only pay what they have to

kevthegaff

I cant find about 20 calf cards, how do I go about replacing so many and how long do they take?

visatorro

kevthegaff wrote:

I cant find about 20 calf cards, how do I go about replacing so many and how long do they take?

I often rang dept after losing one. Fill out the form , card in a week or so. 20 might raise a query?

mr.stonewall

atlantic mist wrote: »

do beef costing include the single farm payment as part of their income? seening plenty of costings here but all leave out a vital source of income, could be up to 400 an acre in some cases, thats prob an extra 200 on each animal profit wise!!

any beef farms i know of have a lot of stacked entiltments, they are not as poor as they currently make out, when it flattens it will be interesting in two years time

only way factories will pay more is if SFP is scrapped, until then its the same as were told in dairy they'll only pay what they have to

I always considered the sfp as almost comparable to farmers dole. Look at the current issue, with armchair farmers, a large cohort of OAP famers, stocking at the bare min to claim, SFP, ANC and the Pension. Many are better off now on this system, than when they were farming, why would they want to give up that gravey train. Looking at the average payment of 254/ ha for farmers in the country this would bring it back to a 100/AC. The number with larger payments are drifting out and becoming smaller in numbers number. I'm here dealing with payment well under the average, and the sooner this system is broken up, based on what happened 20yrs ago the better. At the end of the day, with the beef game, the day you buy is the day you sell.

mr.stonewall

visatorro wrote: »

I often rang dept after losing one. Fill out the form , card in a week or so. 20 might raise a query?

Had to get 2 replaced and was back within a week. Reason I put down for missing, was toddler put in bin

whelan2

kevthegaff wrote: »

I cant find about 20 calf cards, how do I go about replacing so many and how long do they take?

Think it's the usual form er94b. My vet lost my cards years ago and I had to get replacements. He found them after I got the new ones. You should have them in a few days

wrangler

atlantic mist wrote: »

do beef costing include the single farm payment as part of their income? seening plenty of costings here but all leave out a vital source of income, could be up to 400 an acre in some cases, thats prob an extra 200 on each animal profit wise!!

any beef farms i know of have a lot of stacked entiltments, they are not as poor as they currently make out, when it flattens it will be interesting in two years time

only way factories will pay more is if SFP is scrapped, until then its the same as were told in dairy they'll only pay what they have to

I made a similar point about Corley in Beef plan with entitlements of €50000+ , between the likes of him and farmers summer grazing and not caring what price they sell at come November, beef farmers in general aren't hungry enough to push the factories. Beef farming is well subsidised, but that's seldom highlighted in the press releases.
Putting in BPS or labour cost in to accounts would make them irrelevant for comparison, some farmers would have too much help to the point of tripping you up in the yard , especially set up dairy farmers, whereas others would bee trying to do it them selves

Siamsa Sessions

whelan2 wrote: »

Think it's the usual form er94b. My vet lost my cards years ago and I had to get replacements. He found them after I got the new ones. You should have them in a few days

Heard of a neighbour here years ago who had awful trouble with cards, Dept, wrong sex on the cards, etc. After phone calls and various letters to and from the Dept, he thought he had the blue cards sorted at last for his few bullocks.

The cards arrived anyway and he had them in the car going around. He was throwing a few nuts to the bullocks one day when he put the cards in his coat pocket for some reason. Minding them I suppose. And when he went to throw the nuts in the trough, he left the cards out of his hand in case they fell out of his pocket and got lost.

He turned to count them as they were coming to the trough and when he turned around, here was a bullock chewing the lovely blue cards in his mouth as if it was the most natural thing in the world

K.G.

kevthegaff wrote: »

I cant find about 20 calf cards, how do I go about replacing so many and how long do they take?

I remember one time couldn't find a bulls card to sell him.completly forgot that he had gone to the contract grazer with heifers for a while and i never got the card back when he camw back.at the end of the year there was his card with th e heifers when they came back

Mooooo

Heard the department spend close to a million replacing cards every year, wont be long before they don't bother with em you'd imagine. Doesn't matter what card is there if the computer says no animal won't be going anywhere

grassroot1

kevthegaff wrote: »

I cant find about 20 calf cards, how do I go about replacing so many and how long do they take?

if you go looking for 20 blue cards from the department prepare yourself for a big investigation

whelan2

grassroot1 wrote: »

if you go looking for 20 blue cards from the department prepare yourself for a big investigation

People loose things. It happens. I had to get the whole herds cards. No questions. No big investigation

Anto_Meath

Ring them and tell them what happened (you lost them somewhere, accidentally put in the fire or whatever) and they will advise you what to do. Considering its 20 cards they might require a letter from your vet in addition to the form. The department are clever enough they will know by your record if you get up to any messing. If you aren't then I would expect that you will just fill out the form and have 20 new cards issued to you in about a week. If they suspect you are messing then they could use it to investigate a little further.

Bass Reeves

atlantic mist wrote: »

do beef costing include the single farm payment as part of their income? seening plenty of costings here but all leave out a vital source of income, could be up to 400 an acre in some cases, thats prob an extra 200 on each animal profit wise!!

any beef farms i know of have a lot of stacked entiltments, they are not as poor as they currently make out, when it flattens it will be interesting in two years time

only way factories will pay more is if SFP is scrapped, until then its the same as were told in dairy they'll only pay what they have to

BPS has two functions yes one is income support, the other is to compensate you for some regulation costs which impact smaller farmers more than larger.

Most of you post is full of incorrect assumptions. Any BPS cannot be any larger than 750/HA this year. At that somewhere from 3-5% is being clawed back this year. That means the highest I is 700/hA that's about 280/acre. Dairy farmers recieve it as well.

While SOME drystock farmers recieve large BPS the vast majority do not. The average about 250/HA or less than 100/acre because the sh!tty deduction is taken from them as well. Any beef farmer renting land is often forced to hand over that BPS back to owner ( much more is conacre than leased compared to dairy farmers) thank to greed of dairy farmer in there land hunt to produce the white gold. For every farmer up near 700/ HA there is 2-3 drystock farmers below 250/ acre.

In general most dairy farmers will have higher BPS that beef farmers due to farming larger sized holdings Most BPS was original earned on drystock where it should be targeted. So it subsidizes all those calves you sell but the instead dairy farmers consider it a way to subsidize land rental to produce there white gold.

I consider it should be used to subsidize tge calves of dairy farmer started bidding on a poor genetic calf at minus 100 euro you still be only losing 20 euro on the sh!try calves some lads produce. A good Friesian taken away at 5 weeks for 10-20 euro would be breaking even for the dairy farmer. A good 5 week old HE sold at 100 euro would be netting 180 after BPS more than enough for him.

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

I made a similar point about Corley in Beef plan with entitlements of €50000+ , between the likes of him and farmers summer grazing and not caring what price they sell at come November, beef farmers in general aren't hungry enough to push the factories. Beef farming is well subsidised, but that's seldom highlighted in the press releases.
Putting in BPS or labour cost in to accounts would make them irrelevant for comparison, some farmers would have too much help to the point of tripping you up in the yard , especially set up dairy farmers, whereas others would bee trying to do it them selves

More rubbish. It interesting it comes from a person that constantly against convergence and capping. From a person that is retired and benefiting from an OAP, land rental and BPS through the rental of it. Just more crap from you

Albert Johnson

grassroot1 wrote: »

if you go looking for 20 blue cards from the department prepare yourself for a big investigation

Perhaps if you've prior history of questionable conduct but in most cases there's a genuine reason. I've heard of house's and jeeps going on fire and cards lost, someone dies and the cards can't be located ect.

wrangler

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Perhaps if you've prior history of questionable conduct but in most cases there's a genuine reason. I've heard of house's and jeeps going on fire and cards lost, someone dies and the cards can't be located ect.

A friend had his jeep stolen and it must've been a huge jeep with all the stuff that disappeared

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

BPS has two functions yes one is income support, the other is to compensate you for some regulation costs which impact smaller farmers more than larger.

Most of you post is full of incorrect assumptions. Any BPS cannot be any larger than 750/HA this year. At that somewhere from 3-5% is being clawed back this year. That means the highest I is 700/hA that's about 280/acre. Dairy farmers recieve it as well.

While SOME drystock farmers recieve large BPS the vast majority do not. The average about 250/HA or less than 100/acre because the sh!tty deduction is taken from them as well. Any beef farmer renting land is often forced to hand over that BPS back to owner ( much more is conacre than leased compared to dairy farmers) thank to greed of dairy farmer in there land hunt to produce the white gold. For every farmer up near 700/ HA there is 2-3 drystock farmers below 250/ acre.

In general most dairy farmers will have higher BPS that beef farmers due to farming larger sized holdings Most BPS was original earned on drystock where it should be targeted. So it subsidizes all those calves you sell but the instead dairy farmers consider it a way to subsidize land rental to produce there white gold.

I consider it should be used to subsidize tge calves of dairy farmer started bidding on a poor genetic calf at minus 100 euro you still be only losing 20 euro on the sh!try calves some lads produce. A good Friesian taken away at 5 weeks for 10-20 euro would be breaking even for the dairy farmer. A good 5 week old HE sold at 100 euro would be netting 180 after BPS more than enough for him.

Reading the independent Richard Burton seems to think dairy farmers need to be coughing up 810 euro/ha also in carbon tax, the poor ole cow isn't going to be able to keep the plates spinning in the air for much longer with the assault from all sides that's incoming

Grueller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

thank to greed of dairy farmer in there land hunt to produce the white gold.

That line of your post is beneath your usual standard of posting Bass to be fair. Somebody trying to better their circumstances and expand their business isn't necessarily greed. Its no different to a paye worker trying to move to a better paid job to be fair.

Grueller

jaymla627 wrote: »

Reading the independent Richard Burton seems to think dairy farmers need to be coughing up 810 euro/ha also in carbon tax, the poor ole cow isn't going to be able to keep the plates spinning in the air for much longer with the assault from all sides that's incoming

Burton or Bruton? Bruton is so far out of touch with reality it's not funny.

Bass Reeves

Jjameson wrote: »

I agree with wrangler to a point. Beef farming is being held at the level it’s at because of wealth in the country. Bps payments, pensions and avoiding tax/holding wealth together from other sources of income.
It’s a case of the “haves” and the “have nots”.

I was mainly refering to the crap statement about Corley and what he has or has not got in. BPS. The issues with tax, pensions and wealth can be laid at the arms of the main farm oeginisations who constantly lobby for tax concessions.

Look at the inheritance relief it easier for a wealthy farmer to use it than a smaller farmer because of the percentage of wealth involved in agriculture of the beneficiary.

Leasing has turned out give a subsidity to dairy farmers only.

Low interest lending conditions make it really only applicable to larger farmers and no use to smaller units

Young farmer incentives are again more important to larger farmers that can use it to finance expansion than a small drystock unit.

But generally in life I just ignore what is of no use to me and work the system where I can to my advantage.

Bass Reeves

Grueller wrote: »

That line of your post is beneath your usual standard of posting Bass to be fair. Somebody trying to better their circumstances and expand their business isn't necessarily greed. Its no different to a paye worker trying to move to a better paid job to be fair.

Look Gruellar some larger dairy farmers have pushed the boat out on land leasing. It was they mainly that started giving 100% of the SFP on top of rental to access land. They pushed it beyond any other farmer. The PAYE worker moving to a better job is.not actively taking bread off another man's table in this case other farmers.

Also I was putting a slant on it to give another view regarding BPS it being considered a subsidy that applied to drystock farmers only

cute geoge

Can you explain how ''leasing has turned out give subsidy to dairy farmers only'' .I am aware landlord gets a tax rebate on leased land but this would have no extra value to a dairy farmer .The reality margin in dairy farming is declining every year

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Look Gruellar some larger dairy farmers have pushed the boat out on land leasing. It was they mainly that started giving 100% of the SFP on top of rental to access land. They pushed it beyond any other farmer. The PAYE worker moving to a better job is.not actively taking bread off another man's table in this case other farmers.

Also I was putting a slant on it to give another view regarding BPS it being considered a subsidy that applied to drystock farmers only

From a purely economic point of view, why would any dry stock farmer if he can get 200 odd euro plus a acre plus his sfp retained, bother farming his own land, the gold rush in dairying isn't the lad milking the cows, it's the lads clearing nearly 1000 euro/ha from leasing ground and the the service industries be it the machinery dealer/parlour man/concrete crew etc...