Calf price chitchat

charolais0153

jaymla627 wrote: »

From a purely economic point of view, why would any dry stock farmer if he can get 200 odd euro plus a acre plus his sfp retained, bother farming his own land, the gold rush in dairying isn't the lad milking the cows, it's the lads clearing nearly 1000 euro/ha from leasing ground and the the service industries be it the machinery dealer/parlour man/concrete crew etc...

If there's so much money ,not milking cows ,why don't you lease the land and cows to some dairy man, they would pay even more for top class facilities,

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I was mainly refering to the crap statement about Corley and what he has or has not got in. BPS. The issues with tax, pensions and wealth can be laid at the arms of the main farm oeginisations who constantly lobby for tax concessions.

Look at the inheritance relief it easier for a wealthy farmer to use it than a smaller farmer because of the percentage of wealth involved in agriculture of the beneficiary.

Leasing has turned out give a subsidity to dairy farmers only.

Low interest lending conditions make it really only applicable to larger farmers and no use to smaller units

Young farmer incentives are again more important to larger farmers that can use it to finance expansion than a small drystock unit.

But generally in life I just ignore what is of no use to me and work the system where I can to my advantage.

Corley could be accused of cherry picking, whingeing about the poor price of beef without mentioning the €50000+ compensation that he gets for those same poor prices. God knows what he got last year with all the top ups due to Brexit/covid,
The rest of your post stinks of begrudgery

jaymla627

charolais0153 wrote: »

If there's so much money ,not milking cows ,why don't you lease the land and cows to some dairy man, they would pay
even more for top class facilities,

I don't own any land, our draw down so much a euro of a sfp....

charolais0153

jaymla627 wrote: »

I don't own any land, our draw down so much a euro of a sfp....

Your leasing your place?

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

23 calves for €3 a calf end of Carnew on Saturday. Healthy bright eyed looking but no use even at that. It’s a bit of moral dilemma!

Were they sold at that

Base price

Mooooo wrote: »

Heard the department spend close to a million replacing cards every year, wont be long before they don't bother with em you'd imagine. Doesn't matter what card is there if the computer says no animal won't be going anywhere

The Dept are looking at mandatory eid tags for all cattle. I reckon it will be introduced within the next year or so and blue cards will be gone.

Bass Reeves

cute geoge wrote: »

Can you explain how ''leasing has turned out give subsidy to dairy farmers only'' .I am aware landlord gets a tax rebate on leased land but this would have no extra value to a dairy farmer .The reality margin in dairy farming is declining every year

It loaded the dice in favour big dairy farmers. No drystock farmers could afford to out bid them and even tillage operators struggled. They drove prices often to beyond shirt term economic value for themselves know that any changes in payments might benefit them.

You only have to look at l asking figures dairy farmers dominate farm leases now.

Bass Reeves

jaymla627 wrote: »

From a purely economic point of view, why would any dry stock farmer if he can get 200 odd euro plus a acre plus his sfp retained, bother farming his own land, the gold rush in dairying isn't the lad milking the cows, it's the lads clearing nearly 1000 euro/ha from leasing ground and the the service industries be it the machinery dealer/parlour man/concrete crew etc...

Mostly because you will lose out In the next round of payments reviews and end up with rent only. If the gold rush is not in cows it is dairy farmers that drove the income away from farming by pushing leases and it is they in there rush for quality expansion that driving the prices of service industries be it the machinery dealer/parlour man/concrete crew etc.

It not anybody else it a one man show at present as and if they have allowed money to be siphoned out out of the system then they only have themselves to blame.

Because if that whinging about the price beef farmers may in the future pay for calves is not a beef farmers problem. The dairy farmers produce the calves the good with the bad. At present the beef farmer has been left holding the baby while the dairy farmers tango with anyone they throw money at as they expand

atlantic mist

highest price paid for rented land in ireland was in kilkenny for 400 an acre and a tillage man took it, land around here has been driven up to 250 an acre by beef operators with large stacked SFP, last two places ive rented ive been bidding against beef farmers, biggest SFP and land holders in my area are beef, hoping the next cap straightens that out...then talk to me about getting calves for free

Bass Reeves

Jjameson wrote: »

The beef and lamb processing cartel are who are leaving us drystock guys on the long acre not the dairy guys generally. And bps is supposed to be for our and the consumers benefit not a few families and multinational retailers.
Corley was in an enviable position compared to most of whom he purported to speak for.
I only wanted my cattle to break even to stop the wife beating me.. €3.45 a kg and €3.00 by Christmas had me in bother!

I agree with you to a certain extend Jjam. However at present we are looking at over 200k extra cattle in 2022 to be slaughtered compared to this year. If exports this year are similar to last year in 2023 we are looking at another 100 k on top of that. By 2024???. I think because we had a fairly strong autumn price last year it has kept a floor under calf prices this spring. 2019 cattle are the lowest in number we have had for 2-3 years, and we will see expodential growth next year and the year after.

I agree about the lamb and beef cartel. You only have to look at the inaction as they used a beef price pull to steady store prices so they and contracted feedlots could fill sheds for May/ June period. Neither you or I can do anything about it.

I had an interesting conversation a few weeks ago I was buying a piece of machinery off a lad. He used to do the 70-100 day finishing game. He told me he used be in the mart at least three days a week buying forward cattle. His overdraft use be well over 100k and was costing him around 10 k in. Interest. He has a substantial farm but was renting as well. Over the last two years he managed to extract himself from it. He now buys a mixture of calves and weanlings and intends carrying to finish. He has got a job as well. His wife always works.

What amazed him most was the way his costs dropped, between diesel, repairs, vet and medicines, rations bills etc. He commented that this time of year before he be hauling a little as or two silage every week that he bought somewhere. He did not have to be getting lads to take nitrates off him at Christmas to avoid derogation.

As he said he has learned less is more in the beef game.

Bass Reeves

atlantic mist wrote: »

highest price paid for rented land in ireland was in kilkenny for 400 an acre and a tillage man took it, land around here has been driven up to 250 an acre by beef operators with large stacked SFP, last two places ive rented ive been bidding against beef farmers, biggest SFP and land holders in my area are beef, hoping the next cap straightens that out...then talk to me about getting calves for free

I cannot comment on those senario's. I know nothing about tillage or margins in it but the capital outlay's of some of the operations is huge but that can be a general problem accross farm operations.
I have 24 HA's in a tidy beef operation. On looking at expanding via a rental route after I can draw about another 10 HA of ANC payments ( about 30 euro/ acre) after than maybe a bit of extra environment Al scheme. The question you then ask yourself is it worth it. My margin on land rented would be 150-200/ acre depending on quality. However I did have 10 acres taken belong to a BIL, I gave it up as due to water I could not stock it fully and because of fences I spend as much time there as I would spend on my own farm herding.

I consider in a beef operation tops on those 25 acres I could afford 150/ acre if it was naked land. If not I could give about 2/3 of the SFP in total for it no money with it after that I be a busy fool.

lab man

Calves very expensive in listowel today 1 ch made 485 at about 21 days
I bought 13 in total 5 fr at 85 euro 20 to 30 days old
3 aax 30 days at 260e
A good hex 20 days 285e
A fr ok lad at 25 days 90e
2hex 24 days at 235e
1fr 18 days old 135
All bulls most eating hay this evening then found 2 with scour feckkkkk.

trixi2011

What did you get for the heifer calves grasstomilk and what sort of ebi were they

whelan2

8 fr bulls @ 50 euro out of the yard. Also got a belter of a kick just above my knee when loading them

straight

whelan2 wrote: »

8 fr bulls @ 50 euro out of the yard. Also got a belter of a kick just above my knee when loading them

What age were they? Did your AI calf pass his exam?

whelan2

straight wrote: »

What age were they? Did your AI calf pass his exam?

3 weeks. Ebi came back at 245 and 220. So they didn't want them waiting on the other results. Will keep the 245 ebi lad as he's a nice calf and sell next year. Got another text there next lads ebi 270

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

3 weeks. Ebi came back at 245 and 220. So they didn't want them waiting on the other results. Will keep the 245 ebi lad as he's a nice calf and sell next year. Got another text there next lads ebi 270

The ebi take long to come back, waiting on two results here, another to go in post tomorrow. Sold a group of bull calves 3/ 4 weeks 85 out of the yard. May have some to go Monday will give haulier a shout at weekend see how things are going

whelan2

Mooooo wrote: »

The ebi take long to come back, waiting on two results here, another to go in post tomorrow. Sold a group of bull calves 3/ 4 weeks 85 out of the yard. May have some to go Monday will give haulier a shout at weekend see how things are going

About 2 weeks for the results

Hard Knocks

whelan2 wrote: »

About 2 weeks for the results

Is it a DNA test?

whelan2

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Is it a DNA test?

They do DNA which takes a few days and then the genomic testing for the ebi

Hard Knocks

whelan2 wrote: »

They do DNA which takes a few days and then the genomic testing for the ebi

Looks like we’ll all be DNA tagging yet

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

8 fr bulls @ 50 euro out of the yard. Also got a belter of a kick just above my knee when loading them

Ya must have been nasty to him

atlantic mist

14 bulls out of yard 110, 3 weeks

sold a blue for 500 and a second one for 380 both 3 weeks old, going miss these prices when they flatten the SFP

straight

Sold 12 fr bulls to an exporter today for 40 euro. 2 weeks to 1 month. Might have been worth more in the mart but the mart can be a lottery too depending on the day.

whelan2

straight wrote: »

Sold 12 fr bulls to an exporter today for 40 euro. 2 weeks to 1 month. Might have been worth more in the mart but the mart can be a lottery too depending on the day.

No commission, no waiting around etc

JeffKenna

whelan2 wrote: »

No commission, no waiting around etc

Sold them for export today as well. They still have to come out and see the calves. Then you have to drop them to their pickup so by the time that's done I think the mart would have been a better option looking at the prices this week anyway.

whelan2

JeffKenna wrote: »

Sold them for export today as well. They still have to come out and see the calves. Then you have to drop them to their pickup so by the time that's done I think the mart would have been a better option looking at the prices this week anyway.

They come to my yard and pick them up. Haven't been to the mart with calves in a few years now. There's 2 dealers sort of trying to get one over each other here, so I get an extra 5 or 10 euro off one lad to keep the other one away.

JeffKenna

whelan2 wrote: »

They come to my yard and pick them up. Haven't been to the mart with calves in a few years now. There's 2 dealers sort of trying to get one over each other here, so I get an extra 5 or 10 euro off one lad to keep the other one away.

That's very handy in fairness.

GrasstoMilk

whelan2 wrote: »

According to icbf she was not due to calve until 8th of March. Will look her ai date up ltr. Served 24/05 calved 27/02. Do didn't carryover too far

Our BBA4286 arrived today
Had to jack him, gave the cow 2 buckets of reviva after, she cleaned but was fairly wobbly tonight at milking so left her be

whelan2

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Our BBA4286 arrived today
Had to jack him, gave the cow 2 buckets of reviva after, she cleaned but was fairly wobbly tonight at milking so left her be

Only let my cow back with the milkers this morning. It took me a couple of days to recover from calving her do I assume she felt it too. Mine was a 6th calver and plenty of size in her. I dont think he's suitable for dairy cows. Had another blue calf born during the week from a different bull and she calved herself.

Hard Knocks

whelan2 wrote: »

Only let my cow back with the milkers this morning. It took me a couple of days to recover from calving her do I assume she felt it too. Mine was a 6th calver and plenty of size in her. I dont think he's suitable for dairy cows. Had another blue calf born during the week from a different bull and she calved herself.

Was there any difference in gestation?

whelan2

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Was there any difference in gestation?

Bb4286 served 24/5 calved 27/02
Bb4369 served 27/5 calved 03/3

Hard Knocks

whelan2 wrote: »

Bb4286 served 24/5 calved 27/02
Bb4369 served 27/5 calved 03/3

279 & 280 days isn’t bad
Not nice to have problems

Might use Bb4369 on a second calver

K.G.

A few horror stories around here as regards ai and fr heifers in the 1:5 territories and even sexed stuff throwing a good few bulls .we re not too bad ourselves 45/55 but have had 1:2 in the past.i ve never heard icbf admit to it but in this yard ai throws more bulls and natural sevice throws more heifers

Charolois 19

Just seen an ad on done deal there, 30 fr bulls free to good home as they put it, from the Wicklow calf company, not suitable for export, you would imagine they would still have some worth though?

wrangler

Charolois 19 wrote: »

Just seen an ad on done deal there, 30 fr bulls free to good home as they put it, from the Wicklow calf company, not suitable for export, you would imagine they would still have some worth though?

They put up that ad every year then when you phone ''they're gone''

whelan2

Charolois 19 wrote: »

Just seen an ad on done deal there, 30 fr bulls free to good home as they put it, from the Wicklow calf company, not suitable for export, you would imagine they would still have some worth though?

Dont they do that every year. I'd bet if you ring those calves are gone but they'd have others to sell to you. I wouldn't deal with them if they were the last place on earth

jaymla627

K.G. wrote: »

A few horror stories around here as regards ai and fr heifers in the 1:5 territories and even sexed stuff throwing a good few bulls .we re not too bad ourselves 45/55 but have had 1:2 in the past.i ve never heard icbf admit to it but in this yard ai throws more bulls and natural sevice throws more heifers

Certain bulls will throw more heifers and vice a versa, using one bull in particular westcoast perseus who's running at 70% heifers the past 3 years, you'd almost be disappointed when you get a bull of him, given the Irish model is to keep using multi team genomic bulls year on year lads never identify the Irish bulls that are better for heifers and if they do the Bulls themselves are usually burgers after their second season in stud with limited straws available our wont bother using said bull the second season as the new hotshot bulls are way ahead on ebi

Mooooo

Once maidens are bred to fr as well have never been really short on replacements really. By end of calving it nearly always close to 50/ 50 heifer bulls across all calvings. On the BB, is he a test or genomic bull? Would be very slow to use anything other than proven with blues. Never had trouble with DBZ

patsy_mccabe

jaymla627 wrote: »

Certain bulls will throw more heifers and vice a versa, using one bull in particular westcoast perseus who's running at 70% heifers the past 3 years, you'd almost be disappointed when you get a bull of him, given the Irish model is to keep using multi team genomic bulls year on year lads never identify the Irish bulls that are better for heifers and if they do the Bulls themselves are usually burgers after their second season in stud with limited straws available our wont bother using said bull the second season as the new hotshot bulls are way ahead on ebi

Westcoast perseus.
39.1% male and 4,915 calving. That's very unusual. Tends to be close to 50/50 for most bulls.

https://webapp.icbf.com/v2/app/bull-search/view/1418736378

jaymla627

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Westcoast perseus.
39.1% male and 4,915 calving. That's very unusual. Tends to be close to 50/50 for most bulls.

https://webapp.icbf.com/v2/app/bull-search/view/1418736378

Their the quietest heifers I've ever milked to top it off, the first 3 serves to calf to him here this spring have been all heifers so far...
Lovely black heifers

Base price

I was looking at Carrigallen calf sale today and there was a strong trade for calves - online bidding is really showing it's worth.

Good quality 3 week old HEx and AAx calves were easily making up to €300 and over for some. FR bulls were in and around €50/€60 to €180 for a real good 5 week old calf. FRx/JEx bulls were from €2 to €125 for a good square 5 week old. There were some awful narrow/shallow Continental/AAx/HEx calves that made good money and IMO the people who bought them would have been better off buying a good square FR for a quarter of the price.

morphy87

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Our BBA4286 arrived today
Had to jack him, gave the cow 2 buckets of reviva after, she cleaned but was fairly wobbly tonight at milking so left her be

That’s some calf, what other breeds do you use apart from fresian and Belgium blue?

K.G.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Their the quietest heifers I've ever milked to top it off, the first 3 serves to calf to him here this spring have been all heifers so far...
Lovely black heifers

Seems to be fierce strength in her.where do ye see the data on male/ female

nhg

We vaccinated 20 calves all around 4 weeks old with 1st shot of Bovipast RSP & 25ml of Vecoxan yesterday, for past number of years gave Bovilis IBR live inter nasally at same time but someone suggested not to bother unless we have IBR issues. Now wondering if we should have given the Bovilis IBR as well..... Dairy calf to beef system.

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Westcoast perseus.
39.1% male and 4,915 calving. That's very unusual. Tends to be close to 50/50 for most bulls.

https://webapp.icbf.com/v2/app/bull-search/view/1418736378

That as good as sexed semen. You wonder is that what they should aim for instead of all the research into sexed semen

GrasstoMilk

morphy87 wrote: »

That’s some calf, what other breeds do you use apart from fresian and Belgium blue?

HE and Angus

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

Dont they do that every year. I'd bet if you ring those calves are gone but they'd have others to sell to you. I wouldn't deal with them if they were the last place on earth

I actually got on well selling calves to them last year, good money in and out and no messing around. Won't answer the phone this year though ha.

jd_12345

jaymla627 wrote: »

Their the quietest heifers I've ever milked to top it off, the first 3 serves to calf to him here this spring have been all heifers so far...
Lovely black heifers

Based off the little I have noticed online a LOT of Perseus used in the country has been sexed. When you’ve people like Lisduff in Cork serving 30/40 heifers with sexed Perseus the figures don’t be long getting skewed.

I would thinking some lads don’t put down the sire for bull calves too which would again skew things. Interestingly though, haha Perseus is one of the bulls throwing the most amount of bulls from sexed haha.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

I actually got on well selling calves to them last year, good money in and out and no messing around. Won't answer the phone this year though ha.

The last time I dealt with them I was waiting 3 weeks to get
Paid. The only way I got the money which wasn't a lot was to post on their Facebook page. Was paid that night. Calves dont leave the yard here now with out the money in my hand