Calf price chitchat

JeffKenna

Say my name wrote: »

It's a degrading term used by buyers to degrade the animal with the aim of securing that animal as cheaply as possible and possibly stroke their own ego in the absence now of the bar stool.

Calf sales have always been an important part of income here.

If we were to call everything byproducts.
The beef farmer would be classified as a byproduct of Larry Goodman.
Larry Goodman a byproduct of the Haughey Government.

Couldn't agree more. Using terms like that will only feed into the anti farming agenda.

richie123

Say my name wrote: »

It's a degrading term used by buyers to degrade the animal with the aim of securing that animal as cheaply as possible and possibly stroke their own ego in the absence now of the bar stool.

Calf sales have always been an important part of income here.

If we were to call everything byproducts.
The beef farmer would be classified as a byproduct of Larry Goodman.
Larry Goodman a byproduct of the Haughey Government.

Its a fact lad and you just won't accept it.
The majority of dairy cows are minus figures for beef.
Fact lad get your head around that.
Most dairy men can't wait to get rid of their calves that's a fact.
Most dairy calves wouldn't even be born if another humane way could be found to get the cow milking again.
No amount of insults thrown at beef men will change that.
You sound like a condescending dairyman and not doing yourself any favours.
Be glad of them.
If it wasn't for beef men completely ignoring these proper costs in rearing there bought in calves you'd be paying to get rid of your calves.

Anto_Meath

What I have noticed around here you have two types of dairy farmers, 1 is chasing the high number of cows increasing numbers every year, working on a low feed cost, they are running cross bred cows and they see the bull calf as by-product, the sooner & cheeper they can get them out of the yard the better. The second type of dairy farmer feeds a good size BF or Ho type cows, is happy with their level of milk production. They select their best cows for breeding replacements but the bull calves are of a decent quality, they will hold on to them for a month a give them plenty of milk so that they get a good start. The second type of farmer is the lad who's calves you can buy, they will go on & leave a profit. The first lad his calves will never come into anything and should be avoided.

Say my name

richie123 wrote: »

Its a fact lad and you just won't accept it.
The majority of dairy cows are minus figures for beef.
Fact lad get your head around that.
Most dairy men can't wait to get rid of their calves that's a fact.
Most dairy calves wouldn't even be born if another humane way could be found to get the cow milking again.
No amount of insults thrown at beef men will change that.
You sound like a condescending dairyman and not doing yourself any favours.
Be glad of them.
If it wasn't for beef men completely ignoring these proper costs in rearing there bought in calves you'd be paying to get rid of your calves.

Go onto a tillage forum and start calling straw a byproduct of tillage farming and see how far you get.

Sometimes we do all need bringing down a peg or two myself included.
But calf sales are certainly not a byproduct here nor treated as such. As I say it's a term used by those who buy.


It's a skill to rear them for sale. A skill to rear on and a skill to finish. And they're just their own animal. Which the stockperson recognizes.

Call them a byproduct if you want. That's your own choice. But don't be surprised then when others call those stock you buy a byproduct back and yourself a byproduct too.
Gets into a slippery slope..

Anyways I'll keep hopefully paying back the land rent and bills with my "byproducts".

(And richie. You do post for reaction).

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

Your talking bout bullocks here?finished with very little meal ?
I'm at the same craic but no meal..300 kg good Angus heifers are 700 euro now still a better bet than 150 for an Angus calf god knows what....sometimes ud see the tinge of brown inside the ears .....ya ya thats an Angus ....it is in its ****!!!
I often gave 100 plus for good freisin calves in the past and still turn into dirt.never again...

The reason I gave up on calves and weanlings is you have too many bunches of cattle and it effects your ability to manage the system. I have two bunches running on the place one bunch is finishing and the second is stores.

Ya in general my bullocks will eat 125-150 kgs of ration if slaughtered by end of September. I have Friesians as well bought sub 400 kgs and for about 560 euro average. There are different option it's just a matter of picking what suits you

tanko

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Sorry nearly 200/ head my farmer fingers are a bit big for the screen keyboard

The excuses you come up with for posting rubbish figures are funny.
The reality is that the suckler “subsidy” isn’t €300 or nearly €200 as you claim. For a farmer with 20 sucklers the BDGP and BEEP payments work out at about €135/cow after the expenses of taking part in the schemes are deducted.

trg

tanko wrote: »

The excuses you come up with for posting rubbish figures are funny.
The reality is that the suckler “subsidy” isn’t €300 or nearly €200 as you claim. For a farmer with 20 sucklers the BDGP and BEEP payments work out at about €135/cow after the expenses of taking part in the schemes are deducted.

Top farmers would be getting dung samples, vaccinating calves and feeding pre/post weaning anyway though so would have the costs already

richie123

Say my name wrote: »

Go onto a tillage forum and start calling straw a byproduct of tillage farming and see how far you get.

Sometimes we do all need bringing down a peg or two myself included.
But calf sales are certainly not a byproduct here nor treated as such. As I say it's a term used by those who buy.


It's a skill to rear them for sale. A skill to rear on and a skill to finish. And they're just their own animal. Which the stockperson recognizes.

Call them a byproduct if you want. That's your own choice. But don't be surprised then when others call those stock you buy a byproduct back and yourself a byproduct too.
Gets into a slippery slope..

Anyways I'll keep hopefully paying back the land rent and bills with my "byproducts".

(And richie. You do post for reaction).

Technically speaking straw is a byproduct lol that's a whole other discussion

I'm not saying your calves per se are a byproduct
You obviously place a value on the beef side of things
And breed a dam that doesn't hammer the beef end in favour of milk and easier calving.
But you'll have to agree with me on the fact that a good proportion of dairy men can't wait to offload the bull calf.

Yes I do post for reaction.
I like playing devils advocate,
I like the fact I'm anonymous and I can be myself and say what I think.
I would say nothing otherwise
This is a great forum and I love a good lively discussion
Tis all only opinions at the end of day.
Ps I'm headed to the tillage forum now start a new thread :)

richie123

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The reason I gave up on calves and weanlings is you have too many bunches of cattle and it effects your ability to manage the system. I have two bunches running on the place one bunch is finishing and the second is stores.

Ya in general my bullocks will eat 125-150 kgs of ration if slaughtered by end of September. I have Friesians as well bought sub 400 kgs and for about 560 euro average. There are different option it's just a matter of picking what suits you

Ya I focus on heifers mainly buy the odd bullock.
Heifers fatten with zero meal from may June onwards
All Angus Hereford Cross.
Second year at it.tis grand having no big meal bill
We don't know ourselves actually.
Until I get a decent contract off a factory group I'll never meal cattle again expecially over the winter.
Bar I get caught with a drought or wet spell of weather

MIKEKC

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You do not have to buy good ones, you just pay less for ones that have lower growth rates and carcasse weights. I buy a lot if these sort of cattle. In general it easier from July to September to get them into O+/R- carcasses. They averaged 1250 to 1300euro. I replaced them at 650 euro add transport and fees and they landed on the farm for 670 euro. Buying cattle is an art in itself

What weight were the replacements ?

older by the day

White Clover wrote: »

In fairness you'd be a long way from 38c for early lactation milk. More like 28c.

Feb and March milk is higher priced than April's . I told you I get 38cent a litre. But we didn't get greedy and sell our co ops down here. Don't know who got 28cent

lab man

trg wrote: »

Top farmers would be getting dung samples, vaccinating calves and feeding pre/post weaning anyway though so would have the costs already

No they wouldn't in general , 90% of calves are sold off the cow on the morn of the mart, fact

orm0nd

White Clover wrote: »

In fairness you'd be a long way from 38c for early lactation milk. More like 28c.

older by the day wrote: »

Feb and March milk is higher priced than April's . I told you I get 38cent a litre. But we didn't get greedy and sell our co ops down here. Don't know who got 28cent

orm0nd wrote: »

Early lactation is always high solids. Which is the milk fed to calves its mid season that the solids drop off.

That's the way it's on this farm anyhow maybe others are getting more grass into the diet immediately after calving and is what you say.

was on phone earlier unable to up load this

trg

lab man wrote: »

No they wouldn't in general , 90% of calves are sold off the cow on the morn of the mart, fact

Well if you say it's a fact then it must be a fact.

Have you similarl statistics, or facts, regarding dung sampling and vaccinations?

Jb1989

tanko wrote: »

Are you in either of those schemes?

Yes both, €170 or bit more per cow home.

Bass Reeves

tanko wrote: »

The excuses you come up with for posting rubbish figures are funny.
The reality is that the suckler “subsidy” isn’t €300 or nearly €200 as you claim. For a farmer with 20 sucklers the BDGP and BEEP payments work out at about €135/cow after the expenses of taking part in the schemes are deducted.

Rubbish. I have not got suckler's. However for the last couple of years the IFA and the rag have claimed that the Suckler payments are in the region of 170-180/cow.

We all have expenses. I vaccinate all by bullocks whether they are Suckler or dairy bread nobody pays me to do it. I have a scales ( out of order at present) ya I got a grant towards it buts that is available to everyone. If you join any scheme you pay ICBF.

A lad raising dairyX calves will get 400 euro max out of beep for 20 calves, a far we on 60 acres in a calf to beef system would be rearing 40-50 calves minimum. Yet a similar Suckler farmer gets paid four times as much under BEEP

https://www.ifa.ie/farm-schemes/four-weeks-left-to-apply-for-new-e90-per-suckler-cow-beep-scheme/

Bass Reeves

MIKEKC wrote: »

What weight were the replacements ?

The Hereford's and AA's were about 350kgs. Buying online is similar to buying 30' back from a ring. You use colour and marking to judge your cattle.

Base price

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The Hereford's and AA's were about 350kgs. Buying online is similar to buying 30' back from a ring. You use colour and marking to judge your cattle.

Ah Bass are you serious or just taking the piss

Of all the learned beef finishers/farmers on F&F I'm surprised that you've said that.

Hard Knocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Rubbish. I have not got suckler's. However for the last couple of years the IFA and the rag have claimed that the Suckler payments are in the region of 170-180/cow.

We all have expenses. I vaccinate all by bullocks whether they are Suckler or dairy bread nobody pays me to do it. I have a scales ( out of order at present) ya I got a grant towards it buts that is available to everyone. If you join any scheme you pay ICBF.

A lad raising dairyX calves will get 400 euro max out of beep for 20 calves, a far we on 60 acres in a calf to beef system would be rearing 40-50 calves minimum. Yet a similar Suckler farmer gets paid four times as much under BEEP

https://www.ifa.ie/farm-schemes/four-weeks-left-to-apply-for-new-e90-per-suckler-cow-beep-scheme/

I got dung samples done 8 years ago for €20 through local vets
This year it cost €35 to the lab
Sadly these schemes / grants increase the base price

Bass Reeves

Base price wrote: »

Ah Bass are you serious or just taking the piss

Of all the learned beef finishers/farmers on F&F I'm surprised that you've said that.

I not. It allow you to eliminate bunches or look closer at them. The colouring on Friesians determines there types a lot if the time. Remember I am buy the poorer type of store.

A black whitehead with the white on the head part only not running onto the chest is much more likely to grade R. If he's an AA he's soff a HE cow if he's a HE he either off an LM or a AA cow. He is more than likely Suckler bred. An R grading animal on these light AA a d HE carcases comes to about 30-40 euro more

Base price

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I not. It allow you to eliminate bunches or look closer at them. The colouring on Friesians determines there types a lot if the time. Remember I am buy the poorer type of store.

A black whitehead with the white on the head part only not running onto the chest is much more likely to grade R. If he's an AA he's soff a HE cow if he's a HE he either off an LM or a AA cow. He is more than likely Suckler bred. An R grading animal on these light AA a d HE carcases comes to about 30-40 euro more

Whatever works for you. Colour is the least that I'd look at with the exception of a FR bull showing a lot of white.

Bass Reeves

Base price wrote: »

Whatever works for you. Colour is the least that I'd look at with the exception of a FR bull showing a lot of white.

Actually a Friesian bull with alot of white can be very good quality. It depends on other colouring with it

Hard Knocks

Base price wrote: »

Whatever works for you. Colour is the least that I'd look at with the exception of a FR bull showing a lot of white.

Would that be a sign of Ayrshire / Montbellard blood?

Albert Johnson

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Would that be a sign of Ayrshire / Montbellard blood?

I'd imagine it would be more a sign of lots of Holstien breeding, generally British Friesian are more black and white. In my experience the white shorthorns are harder fed and fleshed than there red or roan comrades.

Base price

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Would that be a sign of Ayrshire / Montbellard blood?

Ayrshire normally come patterned like a Friesian and MO have a strong frame. I try to buy MO bull calves but they normally go more that I'm prepared to pay. A lot of white in FR indicates Holstein bloodlines which is ok in feeding cows as they have the length and frame to carry weight but not for feeding bulls as their still growing and growing and growing.

Base price

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I'd imagine it would be more a sign of lots of Holstien breeding, generally British Friesian are more black and white. In my experience the white shorthorns are harder fed and fleshed than there red or roan comrades.

Hard Knocks was asking about Ayrshire and not Shorthorn.

Beef Shorthorn's are a different kettle of fish to Dairy Shorthorn's which are as extreme (lacking in beef qualities) as any of the other main dairy breeds that we have in Ireland.

Albert Johnson

Base price wrote: »

Hard Knocks was asking about Ayrshire and not Shorthorn.

Beef Shorthorn's are a different kettle of fish to Dairy Shorthorn's which are as extreme (lacking in beef qualities) as any of the other main dairy breeds that we have in Ireland.

My comment about white Shorthorns wasn't meant in reply to Hard Knocks query but more of a standalone observation. I'd be curious if there's some sort of link between whiter dairy bred cattle being more extreme as regards conformation compared to there more coloured comrades.

We don't really differentiate between Shorthorn's (apart from some a limited number of dairy lines) in this country. In the UK the Whitebred Shorthorn is treated as a sub breed and bred pure to retain it's characteristics. Whitebred bulls are crossed on Angus and Highland cows to produce what we'd term a blue grey cow but they refer to as black baldies.

White Clover

Albert Johnson wrote: »

My comment about white Shorthorns wasn't meant in reply to Hard Knocks query but more of a standalone observation. I'd be curious if there's some sort of link between whiter dairy bred cattle being more extreme as regards conformation compared to there more coloured comrades.

We don't really differentiate between Shorthorn's (apart from some a limited number of dairy lines) in this country. In the UK the Whitebred Shorthorn is treated as a sub breed and bred pure to retain it's characteristics. Whitebred bulls are crossed on Angus and Highland cows to produce what we'd term a blue grey cow but they refer to as black baldies.

Albert, is what we call a black baldie a cross between a Hereford and an Angus?

Albert Johnson

White Clover wrote: »

Albert, is what we call a black baldie a cross between a Hereford and an Angus?

I wouldn't be an authority on the matter but I'd imagine so, the Aussies use that term for AA crossed with HE and it could well be the same here. The Australian Murray Grey is what we call a blue grey, AA crossed with SH.

MIKEKC

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Rubbish. I have hThatnot got suckler's. However for the last couple of years the IFA and the rag have claimed that the Suckler payments are in the region of 170-180/cow.

We all have expenses. I vaccinate all by bullocks whether they are Suckler or dairy bread nobody pays me to do it. I have a scales ( out of order at present) ya I got a grant towards it buts that is available to everyone. If you join any scheme you pay ICBF.

A lad raising dairyX calves will get 400 euro max out of beep for 20 calves, a far we on 60 acres in a calf to beef system would be rearing 40-50 calves minimum. Yet a similar Suckler farmer gets paid four times as much under BEEP

https://www.ifa.ie/farm-schemes/four-weeks-left-to-apply-for-new-e90-per-suckler-cow-beep-scheme/

That is plus the BP that was built up

Good loser

Is it correct that the BEEP pays on straight Fr bulls? €20/head up to 20 calves?

Bass Reeves

Good loser wrote: »

Is it correct that the BEEP pays on straight Fr bulls? €20/head up to 20 calves?

It pay 20/,head on any 20 calves born to dairy cows. You must weight them once when they are after 12 weeks old AFAIK it 12weeks. The only other condition is you mustj be a member of ICBF.

ICBF is 70-80euro and the hire of the scales. If knew 1-2 other lads doing it you weight a lot of calves in 5-6 hours even having to move the scales a few miles

Anto_Meath

Hi Bass do you have to have paid membership to ICBF or do you just have to sign up to it so that they have access to your information?

Bass Reeves

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Hi Bass do you have to have paid membership to ICBF or do you just have to sign up to it so that they have access to your information?

AFAIK you have to have paid membership, I do not think you can sign up to it as such. If someone can correct me well and good as I have a friend that has to do it for the scheme

Hard Knocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

AFAIK you have to have paid membership, I do not think you can sign up to it as such. If someone can correct me well and good as I have a friend that has to do it for the scheme

You don’t have to pay membership
It is easier if you’re a member
If not contact ICBF for weight recording sheet

Siamsa Sessions

Hard Knocks wrote: »

You don’t have to pay membership
It is easier if you’re a member
If not contact ICBF for weight recording sheet

Anyone can get basic access to their herd profile on ICBF. There's a form to fill out and post/email to them: https://www.icbf.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/auth_form.pdf

I'm guessing that's enough to allow you to submit calf weights to them.

After that it's €100 for their HerdPlus service, which gives you more info on various bits and pieces. I'm not sure what's available here as I only signed up for HerdPlus last week to get access to official EBI figures for heifers I'll be selling in a few months.

Base price

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Cattle prices are going OK too and there's nothing like a bit of confidence to drive up price.

Is there any place online where total calf births and the number of calf exports are published?

Base price wrote: »

Here are the export figures and there is one for calf births but I can't find it at the moment.
https://www.bordbia.ie/farmers-growers/prices-markets/cattle-trade-prices/live-cattle-exports/

Agriland article - calf registrations to date
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/calf-registrations-approach-the-2-million-mark/?utm_content=buffer5f6e0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR2eLgl3ddWqEt8NaSbEihRFRAZHglECvYoZjVDPIlFqQ3ZR3Er-YmpxgP4

whelan2

Any recent prices for Hereford and Angus calves

DukeCaboom

Two hex bulls today in macroom a month old well done 260. Absolutely bonkers price. Still the likes are usually making 180 to 200 down here.

Base price

whelan2 wrote: »

Any recent prices for Hereford and Angus calves

I watched about 20 mins of Carrigallen today and prices for AAx/HEx calves were back by €50-€70.

Nekarsulm

Base price wrote: »

I watched about 20 mins of Carrigallen today and prices for AAx/HEx calves were back by €50-€70.

There was a charity auction in Carrigallen last week, 50 farmer donated calves.
All proceeds going to a Leitrim/Longford Hospice start-up.
Prices were generally thirty or forty dearer than normal, but a 60 day old fresian heifer made €600 .....

Castlekeeper

whelan2 wrote: »

Any recent prices for Hereford and Angus calves

Still making reasonable money in Abbeyfeale today, 150 - 250 depending on age and quality.

Good loser

At what age do calves start chewing the cud?

Base price

Good loser wrote: »

At what age do calves start chewing the cud?

You could see them as young as 2 weeks of age but normally around 3 weeks. That would be for teat reared calves with access to straw/hay and crunch. I'm not sure actually about suckler calves but I imagine it may take a little longer as they are not inclined to graze when they are very young.

Mooooo

whelan2 wrote: »

Any recent prices for Hereford and Angus calves

AA bulls 180, heifers 160 circa 5 weeks old

whelan2

Sold the last 12 calves today out of the yard. They were a mixed bunch. I bought in incalf cows and all their calves got crypto. Hadn't used halocur all year until these came along. Didn't lose any of them but they took a while to get over it. Aa bulls and heifers 100 to 180. Fr bull 50. 2 whitehead bulls 160. Glad to see them gone

tanko

Is it still possible to sell a calf up to 120 days old without a TB test?

Castlekeeper

tanko wrote: »

Is it still possible to sell a calf up to 120 days old without a TB test?

I don't know but maybe one way to find out is to apply for a certificate of compliance online, and if you get an an A, you're good to go?

Base price

tanko wrote: »

Is it still possible to sell a calf up to 120 days old without a TB test?

I phoned our DVO and the lady said that the exemption has been extended until the 1st of August.

Siamsa Sessions

Are there any marts in particular that sell weaned calves?

Or is it mostly on DoneDeal you’d have to look?

I’m looking for 15-20. Preferably AA or HE, but would consider any breeding. Would prefer heifers but again I’d take bulls too

Thanks