Calf price chitchat

mahoney_j

cute geoge wrote: »

Surely bvd testing calves must come to an end sooner or later .This cost could be put to better use This €3.80 cost per calf could be put into some test or proof of the beef quality of the calf .I tend to agree it is difficult for a buyer to discern a bad quality calf it has been well fed for 5 weeks with milk before sale

It would/should be done and dusted and country ibr free but the scheme is a shambles on Dept behalf and farmers keeping bvd positive calves .weve been trying to eradicate tb for 60 odd years and are no further down line ,probably gone backwards and now they are introducing a Johnes scheme ,more expense for farmer and another cash cow for Dept/vets to milk

charolais0153

cute geoge wrote: »

Surely bvd testing calves must come to an end sooner or later .This cost could be put to better use This €3.80 cost per calf could be put into some test or proof of the beef quality of the calf .I tend to agree it is difficult for a buyer to discern a bad quality calf it has been well fed for 5 weeks with milk before sale

Whatever about anything else this has to stop. U cant get the factories to give more but you can get more for the farmers

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

Dna testing would sort it out. Tbh if lads really want quality stock they should be going to the farms and sourcing them there. Get to see the cows they are from etc. Buying in the mart is lucky bag stuff and then you have the disease risk there too

Any recommendations?

whelan2

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Especially if they are registered 5-7 days late

Under these new rules though won't they be registered earlier if they have to be 14 days before sale?

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

Any recommendations?

Aye, repeat customers normally happy customers

Base price

whelan2 wrote: »

Under these new rules though won't they be registered earlier if they have to be 14 days before sale?

The new rules are 10 days for farm to farm or farm to mart. 14 days only applies to calves that have to travel over 100klms which in real terms are export FR bull calves. In all cases, calves cannot travel if their navels haven't healed.

whelan2

Base price wrote: »

The new rules are 10 days for farm to farm or farm to mart. 14 days only applies to calves that have to travel over 100klms which in real terms are export FR bull calves. In all cases, calves cannot travel if their navels haven't healed.

Ye but most lads want calves gone ASAP and alot go for export. Don't think there'll be too many hiding in the rushes. So if you go to apply for a movement permit under 10 days it won't be allowed?

Hard Knocks

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Irish calves should make good money this spring.
We have to complete quite a bit of paperwork along with treating calves with Butox etc to just be able to sell them.
I’m fairly certain that calves that are exported out of France, along with the paperwork/Butox, must be retested once arriving in a foreign country. That adds quite a bit of cost.
Irish calves should be exempt from this rigmarole, and therefore worth more.


Sire and dams breed/code are on all passports and are subject to random dna testing...we get a dna inspection about once a year.

It’s a pity the bad sample couldn’t also be used for dna & Eurostar

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

It would/should be done and dusted and country ibr free but the scheme is a shambles on Dept behalf and farmers keeping bvd positive calves .weve been trying to eradicate tb for 60 odd years and are no further down line ,probably gone backwards and now they are introducing a Johnes scheme ,more expense for farmer and another cash cow for Dept/vets to milk

Vet was here on Friday. I have blooded for johnes here for about 5 years. Now I changed vet during last year. He asked me loads of questions. I got him to blood a 6 year old cow which would have tested negative for the last 4 years with classic signs of johnes. Out with the camera to show to other farmers who don't test. It's a scary disease

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mod note: Hi folks, I've merged this years and last years calf price threads together and hope to keep the thread for all calf price discussion so it'll be easier for everyone to find.


Buford T. Justice

kk.man

whelan2 wrote: »

Dna testing would sort it out. Tbh if lads really want quality stock they should be going to the farms and sourcing them there. Get to see the cows they are from etc. Buying in the mart is lucky bag stuff and then you have the disease risk there too

+1 . They are dealers on donedeal selling what looks like shiny calves in deep beds of straw mainly AA and a few HE which will turn out to be JERX when it's too late.

whelan2

kk.man wrote: »

+1 . They are dealers on donedeal selling what looks like shiny calves in deep beds of straw mainly AA and a few HE which will turn out to be JERX when it's too late.

Which they probably paid feck all for

Base price

whelan2 wrote: »

Ye but most lads want calves gone ASAP and alot go for export. Don't think there'll be too many hiding in the rushes. So if you go to apply for a movement permit under 10 days it won't be allowed?

I presume not.

Bigbird1

What's a 5 week old Angus bull calf worth, buying 1 to suck a cow, never really buy in calves
Thanks

whelan2

Bigbird1 wrote: »

What's a 5 week old Angus bull calf worth, buying 1 to suck a cow, never really buy in calves
Thanks

Is it still on cow or not?

Bigbird1

whelan2 wrote: »

Is it still on cow or not?

On a bucket at present

whelan2

Bigbird1 wrote: »

On a bucket at present

175? Bringing 2 to the mart on Tuesday, very good 8 week old AA bull and 10 wk old fr bull both still on cow.

Albert Johnson

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Irish calves should make good money this spring.
We have to complete quite a bit of paperwork along with treating calves with Butox etc to just be able to sell them.
I’m fairly certain that calves that are exported out of France, along with the paperwork/Butox, must be retested once arriving in a foreign country. That adds quite a bit of cost.
Irish calves should be exempt from this rigmarole, and therefore worth more.


Sire and dams breed/code are on all passports and are subject to random dna testing...we get a dna inspection about once a year.

How does the above parentage verification work if the results don't match up to the official records?
If a number of bulls are used on the farm or multiple cows calve at the one time then mistakes could easily happen. I'd imagine that if all calves were DNA tested it would throw up a lot of anomalies in the supposed parentage. The introduction of compulsory DNA testing in many breed society's in recent years has uncovered some discrepancies in the pedigrees of many bulls, these are animals where accuracy of the lineage would be classed as important.

Gawddawggonnit

Albert Johnson wrote: »

How does the above parentage verification work if the results don't match up to the official records?
If a number of bulls are used on the farm or multiple cows calve at the one time then mistakes could easily happen. I'd imagine that if all calves were DNA tested it would throw up a lot of anomalies in the supposed parentage. The introduction of compulsory DNA testing in many breed society's in recent years has uncovered some discrepancies in the pedigrees of many bulls, these are animals where accuracy of the lineage would be classed as important.

€3300 fine if found to be wrong. If say you have two Lim bulls, you’d be ok once Lim is registered as the sire, but if it’s supposed to be AA, you’d be fined.

Albert Johnson

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

€3300 fine if found to be wrong. If say you have two Lim bulls, you’d be ok once Lim is registered as the sire, but if it’s supposed to be AA, you’d be fined.

That's a hefty penalty and would definitely focus your mind as to ensuring accuracy of parentage. It's something that could be enacted in this country and I could see some of the benefits although it would mainly be just another stick to beat us with.

I agree with previous posters that having the sire code on the passport would help buyers judge the beef qualities of dairy bred sucks. However this information would only be of use if efforts were made to correctly identify the sire. Another drawback as mentioned by Bass Reeves is that many beef bred calves from the dairy herd are sired by stock bulls as opposed to A.I.. Therefore the potential purchaser would still have to ascertain the back breeding of the bull.

Since the introduction of bonus slaughter payments for AA and HE bred stock I have seen increased amounts of continental or otherwise bred stock registered as either of the above to claim bonuses. This practice only damages the scheme long-term for all involved and reduces demand through over supply. I'm also aware of JEx calves being registered as AAx to try and fool unsuspecting buyers, although I do believe that some of the ultra easy calving bulls such as KYA have little to offer beef men over a JEx.

Futher research is needed into the area of dairy beed sires if we're not to reach a crisis point of large amount of calves with no potential value as beef animals.

Base price

Disruption to calf exports due to delays with the delivery of the WB Yeats which will not be operational until March 20th.
http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/w-b-yeats-to-boost-dairy-calf-exports-to-80000-month/

charolais0153

Check this out on Agriland - How much should beef farmers pay for bull calves from the dairy herd? https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/how-much-should-beef-farmers-pay-for-bull-calves-from-the-dairy-herd/

A good article imo

mahoney_j

charolais0153 wrote: »

Check this out on Agriland - How much should beef farmers pay for bull calves from the dairy herd? https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/how-much-should-beef-farmers-pay-for-bull-calves-from-the-dairy-herd/

A good article imo

A load of ****e .....free fr bull and pay the new owner 140 euro ,for a jex bull maby !!!!

Mooooo

The same people come to take fr calves here regularly, they seem to be able to make it work.
I made the point earlier that people particularly in the beef game if not at it full time have to see if it will survive on its own two feet, if not you are supplementing it with the fulltime job. If one wants to continue doing that that's fine but if Larry is continuing to get cattle from lads that aren't making any profit why would he make any change

Anto_Meath

Well Mahoney_J it does seem strange but in reality it probably isn't that far off the mark, especially for the Jex bull caves they are worthless to rear as the eat to much and kill out at to small of weights. I know of a lad sold 20 Jex calves in the mart at €5 each last year, he then owed the mart €100 in sale fees, but he said if he was to send them to the kennels then it would have cost him €200 so he was better off. Another lad beside me is putting sexed semen on his good Je cows and then on the remainder he is putting an easy calving Ch bull, last year the calves he sold averaged €285 into his pocket. The CHx calves looked nice in the mart but I haven't seen any of them since to see how they turned out.

Mooooo

Whats considered easy calving needs to be aligned. A suckler man may consider easy calving a small pull whereas a dairy man would consider it calving on her own. Particularly with longer gestation breeds such as limo and ch.

tanko

mahoney_j wrote: »

A load of ****e .....free fr bull and pay the new owner 140 euro ,for a jex bull maby !!!!

It will be interesting to see what FR and JEX bull calves are worth this spring when the glut hits.

morphy87

Bought Freisian calf’s last year in early March good proper square British ones,3 weeks old paid 170 for them what do reckon they will be worth this year? Going to try and buy off the same farmer again

wrangler

mahoney_j wrote: »

A load of ****e .....free fr bull and pay the new owner 140 euro ,for a jex bull maby !!!!

It's not a load of s.....;There's enough on here saying they can't make money on them, No point in paying too much and then blaming the farm organisations for no profit.

wrangler

morphy87 wrote: »

Bought Freisian calf’s last year in early March good proper square British ones,3 weeks old paid 170 for them what do reckon they will be worth this year? Going to try and buy off the same farmer again

What do you think your yearlings are worth now

Anto_Meath

Well you can pick up September 2018 born FR bull calves which are off milk and ready for grass for between €100 - €130 at the minute so I am guessing the 2- 3 week old calves would be worth a lot less.

whelan2

wrangler wrote: »

It's not a load of s.....;There's enough on here saying they can't make money on them, No point in paying too much and then blaming the farm organisations for no profit.

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

Exactly ,

farisfat

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

Farming disease and the single payment.
Theirs no cure for farming disease unless the bank close on ye.

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

Because lads can't help themselves

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

Because lads can't help themselves

Going to try to bring as many calves as possible to the mart this spring. Have orders for a good few of them, rest will go to mart

White Clover

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

I have a feeling that's about to change. Beef farmers have taken some roasting over the last 12 months. A lot of lads that I have talked to have said they're not prepared to lose anymore money to it.

wrangler

You'd have a better chance of making money now in Paddy Powers than buying calves

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

Going to try to bring as many calves as possible to the mart this spring. Have orders for a good few of them, rest will go to mart

You know the story here

visatorro

whelan2 wrote: »

Reggie. wrote: »

Because lads can't help themselves

Going to try to bring as many calves as possible to the mart this spring. Have orders for a good few of them, rest will go to mart

Were you selling today?

whelan2

visatorro wrote: »

Were you selling today?

NO sold cattle yesterday, will try to bring the 2 I have next week.

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

If they are not making money on them why pay stupid money for them? Lads can't keep their hands in their pockets

Autumn born calves around here where unsalable bar the shippers taking them and 50 euro was their limit, the lads doing bull calves badly and landing them into the mart in big batches to flog them at any price could be in for a shock, I’d reckon anything x-bred/done poorly will be unsaleable this spring

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

Autumn born calves around here where unsalable bar the shippers taking them and 50 euro was their limit, the lads doing bull calves badly and landing them into the mart in big batches to flog them at any price could be in for a shock, I’d reckon anything x-bred/done poorly will be unsaleable this spring

I brought a good few to the mart, shippers offering me less than half of what I got in the mart from my yard

Bass Reeves

mahoney_j wrote: »

A load of ****e .....free fr bull and pay the new owner 140 euro ,for a jex bull maby !!!!

There are a few issues at play. The Agriland issue was not great journalism they had O+ QA steers at 6c+base when they receive only the base (Baseprice -12c for O+ and add QA which is 12c). but it did hit a few nails on the head. U16 months Fr bull beef is high risk with little profit unless you are a top class operator. U20 months Bull is risky unless you can get them to grass for the second spring early summer but is really dependent on Late Autumn price. It fails to mention U24 bull but this again is dependent on grazing until September. Heifer like bulls U20 months are dependent on late Autumn price and this is the second year in a row where this was a disaster. After that you have U30 month steer and said it was profitable. T thenhey did a cost process for and worked back to a calf price from there giving the farmer a 200 euro margin. They have more or ls hinted that winter finishing is a dead duck.

Is there analysis wrong not I do not think so. At present there is very little profit in the beef system. 5-10 years ago I had 3-4 options on how to turn a few bob. Pre and post Christmas U24 and U30 month bulls, early summer steers, Mid summer U30 months bulls actually u30 months bulls any time. And you had Heifers early summer and late autumn I did not do them but lads did. 5+ years ago I could pay 450 euro for a 250+kgs friesian bull and know that I could kill him 15 months later at 3.9-4.1/kg. Ration was 200ish/ton. The same finished bull at present is making 3.5/kg, that is 180 euro. Ration is 80/ton more expensive( I think as I have not bought any I am not finishing cattle out of the shed this year:) inspired or what I am not sure). Other costs have risen plastic, contractor, Vet Medicines, Machinery etc, fertlizer is about the same. I need to buy that weanling for sub 200 to maintain my margin so what a FR calf worth?

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Well you can pick up September 2018 born FR bull calves which are off milk and ready for grass for between €100 - €130 at the minute so I am guessing the 2- 3 week old calves would be worth a lot less.

You would probally buy 300kg friesians for 100 ish + there weigh Not exactly sure as I have not being at the mart since last Autumn.

White Clover wrote: »

I have a feeling that's about to change. Beef farmers have taken some roasting over the last 12 months. A lot of lads that I have talked to have said they're not prepared to lose anymore money to it.

Lads have to learn sometimes. I have came accross 3 suckler men and all would be out of suckler except for being ties in the suckler scheme.

whelan2 wrote: »

I brought a good few to the mart, shippers offering me less than half of what I got in the mart from my yard

Shipper can only pay so much for calves they are like finishers they know there costs, they know what there buyers will pay and after that they want a margin. If the price is not right they walk away. More farmer should thing the same

Albert Johnson

The article quoted in an earlier post re the economics of various calf types and there values makes for sobering reading. I should admit from the outset that I'm somewhat biased on the subject of sucks, to say I detest them would be putting it mildly. I've reared one batch of AA bull calves and would plant the place before doing it again. I was lucky in that they all lived and came into good enough bullocks but the effort, money and time invested in them was enough to put me off for life.

It's ok saying that the above article is a load of bull but i think that the issue of bull calves especially the more extreme dairy types is a possible welfare issue going forward. At the moment dairy farmers assume most calves have a monetary value and that there are heaps of lads willing to purchase. The ever increasing cost of bringing these calves through to slaughter combined with a dismal year for the beef sector may be the final straw for many calf rearers.

Having observed the store trade for dairy cross stock all back end and doing the sums on what finished cattle are worth at the moment it's hard to draw many positive conclusions. A lot of lads lost there shirt on dairy bred cattle and will be understandably more cautious this time around. A few examples in other posts of what sucks made last year leave me wondering what goes through people's minds when purchasing calves.

The Charolais bull crossed to Jersey cows for example, they may have looked ok as sucks but the real test will be repeat custom this spring? I seen several batch's of Friesian runners sold locally (far from dairy country) at average 1.20 a kilo. These cost 120 at 3 weeks old, rear for 6 months and receive 240 at 200kg. I admit to only doing ordinary maths for the L.C. but even I can work out the profit margin or rather lack of involved there.

Exporting as many of the more dairy types as possible is a solution at the moment if the domestic market collapses. However long term live exports are on shaky ground, the animal welfare brigade are canvassing for a total ban and public opinion is leaning in this direction.

If faced with a saturated domestic market and an unsustainable production cycle it will be very much a crisis for the dairy sector. The green and wholesome image of Irish dairying will not go hand in hand with slaughtering newborn calves and the resulting public backlash. It would be prudent of the industy to prioritize research into a sustainable beef by product rather than expecting the beef industry to clean up it's mess as is happening at present.

atlantic mist

might need the big holstein to come back into fashion, one calf ever two years would sort things out

alps

atlantic mist wrote: »

might need the big holstein to come back into fashion, one calf ever two years would sort things out

You could go by the tag digits like they do with cars allowed to enter Paris....

Odd numbers allowed to calve 2019, even tag numbers 2020 and so on...

older by the day

Albert Johnson wrote: »

The article quoted in an earlier post re the economics of various calf types and there values makes for sobering reading. I should admit from the outset that I'm somewhat biased on the subject of sucks, to say I detest them would be putting it mildly. I've reared one batch of AA bull calves and would plant the place before doing it again. I was lucky in that they all lived and came into good enough bullocks but the effort, money and time invested in them was enough to put me off for life.

It's ok saying that the above article is a load of bull but i think that the issue of bull calves especially the more extreme dairy types is a possible welfare issue going forward. At the moment dairy farmers assume most calves have a monetary value and that there are heaps of lads willing to purchase. The ever increasing cost of bringing these calves through to slaughter combined with a dismal year for the beef sector may be the final straw for many calf rearers.

Having observed the store trade for dairy cross stock all back end and doing the sums on what finished cattle are worth at the moment it's hard to draw many positive conclusions. A lot of lads lost there shirt on dairy bred cattle and will be understandably more cautious this time around. A few examples in other posts of what sucks made last year leave me wondering what goes through people's minds when purchasing calves.

The Charolais bull crossed to Jersey cows for example, they may have looked ok as sucks but the real test will be repeat custom this spring? I seen several batch's of Friesian runners sold locally (far from dairy country) at average 1.20 a kilo. These cost 120 at 3 weeks old, rear for 6 months and receive 240 at 200kg. I admit to only doing ordinary maths for the L.C. but even I can work out the profit margin or rather lack of involved there.

Exporting as many of the more dairy types as possible is a solution at the moment if the domestic market collapses. However long term live exports are on shaky ground, the animal welfare brigade are canvassing for a total ban and public opinion is leaning in this direction.

If faced with a saturated domestic market and an unsustainable production cycle it will be very much a crisis for the dairy sector. The green and wholesome image of Irish dairying will not go hand in hand with slaughtering newborn calves and the resulting public backlash. It would be prudent of the industy to prioritize research into a sustainable beef by product rather than expecting the beef industry to clean up it's mess as is happening at present.

Great piece of writing. Every radio show I turn on lately has been vegans running down farming, I have felt like ringing in but afraid of making a show of myself. It goes against my nature to see a slaughter scheme for calves. But all the smart people that have been preaching about the New Zealand way, should have known what was coming down the line for calfs. It's ironic that the removal of milk quotas is the death nail for beef

atlantic mist

dont need a slaughter scheme for calves, be the end of our green image

its about time teasasc have a good look at their ideal cow type seen as sustainability is the latest buzz word they have learned, the majority of dairy farmers have stuck with the black and white fr/hol only small % of cow population is the xbred animal

calves should have some value coming from good strong big cows, if no beef industry well have to rear calves ourselves you wouldnt be long getting rid of the small xbred type if made finish the calf

_Brian

atlantic mist wrote: »

dont need a slaughter scheme for calves, be the end of our green image

its about time teasasc have a good look at their ideal cow type seen as sustainability is the latest buzz word they have learned, the majority of dairy farmers have stuck with the black and white fr/hol only small % of cow population is the xbred animal

calves should have some value coming from good strong big cows, if no beef industry well have to rear calves ourselves you wouldnt be long getting rid of the small xbred type if made finish the calf

Slaughtering young doesn’t seem to affect lamb production ??
Everything should be investigated as to it’s merrit.