N17 - Knock to Collooney [design & planning underway]

KrisW1001

If recent practice is any indication of a policy, then new Type 1 Single carriageway roads are built with upgrade to 2+2 in mind. (e.g., bridges over the road must have a wide enough span for a 2+2)

DumbBrunette

Local councillor questioning the rationale behind the new route.

https://westernpeople.ie/2023/02/17/proposed-n17-route-is-a-yellow-pack-plan/

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120261538#Comment_120261538

SF’s Gerry Murray talking sh1te again - complaining that a motorway (or equivalent) is not being built and that the government/TII are cheaping out by not doing so.

Isnt this the same gobsh1te campaigner who wants to spend over 100 million on a Western Rail Corridor?

What an ass. Sure Gerry - when SF get into government there’ll be motorways and railways and Everything Everywhere All At Once …

KrisW1001

Yeah, it’s odd that on one hand he’s complaining that local residents are having to face the prospect of compulsory purchases again despite being assurance last time; but then on the other hand he wants this road to be a motorway - an option that would have huge impact on local farmers, and would require far more CPOs.

Populists like this guy rely on getting listeners angry, so they don’t have time to actually think things through.

However, he’s still right about the first point: on the last construction here, the State bought extra land at the current N17/n5 junction to allow for a future junction expansion, and the current junction already contains a bridge over N5. I cannot see the reason for rebuilding a new bridge structure barely one kilometre east of where one sits now. (There is another patch of state land just East of the corridor, but I think that this has nothing to do with the road)

(You can find publicly-owned land on the Land Development Agency’s Map, here: Map - LDA )

DumbBrunette

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2023/02/20/public-consultation-dates-for-new-mayo-n17-route/

Another public consultation, this time for the preferred route.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120263928#Comment_120263928

I assume that the additional lands bought which he refers to are those to the east. The state ownership at the existing junction is only really enough for the junction as is, not for a future junction expansion.

godskitchen

What is that map/route based on?

Bypasses sligo

KrisW1001

The picture on that article is a weird mistake... looks like the whole thing has been drawn 20km north of where it really is.

n17knockcollooney.ie has the correct map, and you can see there that the new road will run from the N4 at Collooney, south of Sligo, to the existing N17 at Knock.. it doesn't bypass Sligo at all.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273108#Comment_120273108

Yes I'm guessing the road overlay was accidentally panned northwards by someone relative to the map. The shape of the route around Sligo looks correct if was brought back down to Tobercurry.

Mullinabreena

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273108#Comment_120273108

It would take some engineering to put a dual carriage way through the Ox Mountains and bridge across two bays! 😀

DumbBrunette

https://westernpeople.ie/2023/03/16/concerns-of-planned-n17-route-landowners-vital-say-councillors/

..

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372208#Comment_120372208

Im puzzled by all this. Does anyone know exactly what has happened here? How was the existing bridge over the N5 deemed suitable for a future N17 when it opened in 2007 but now it seems its in the wrong place?

KrisW1001

I have to say I’m equally baffled by this decision. Bridges are the most expensive part of road-building, and there is land reserved near that bridge to upgrade the existing junction with longer merge and leave lanes. It seems odd to give up on that if the new option is barely a kilometre up the road.

Pete_Cavan

Assuming that the LDA state ownership maps is accurate, and what yer man Murray said is true, then the additional land bought is not at the existing junction. The article says "Lavey would be the connection point for the N5 onto a new N17" not that the existing junction would be upgraded.

There would be no need for longer merges from N17 onto the N5 unless the N5 itself was being reengineered. Traffic joining from even an upgraded N17 would still have to stop and wait for an appropriate opportunity to join the N5. This is the case with DC too, as highlighted several times recently in the N22 thread. Even with a new junction at a different location, this would almost certainly still be the case.

You'd have to wonder if Mulvey from Sligo has any idea of the process of designing and building such a road (as Cathaoirleach of Sligo County Council you'd hope he would know the basics). He said “The concerns of the farmers and small businesses along the planned route should be taken on board before the final contracts are signed,” and “I suggest that we examine the concerns of communities along the N5 project in Mayo and see what can be learned from them. If this means a delay of 2 or 3 months in starting the project , so be it". We are several years away from final contracts are signed! There is a public consultation happening right now to hear the concerns of the farmers and small businesses along the planned route. What does he think would happen in a 2 or 3 month delay that isn't already happening? It won't affect the actual start date anyway as it is as yet unknown.

KrisW1001

I’m not talking about what Mulvey is saying at all... My puzzlement is that there is that perfectly good bridge has been built over N5 right now, and yet this project will build a second one less than 1km from that point. Surely it would be considerably cheaper to either widen the existing bridge, or use the existing bridge for one carriageway and construct a second bridge right next to it for the other carriageway?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380334#Comment_120380334

My reply wasn't directly to you and hence why I brought up what Mulvey said, not that I thought that you were talking about what he said.

I was just making the point that the information we have suggests the plan was always for a new junction, not to upgrade the existing one. Obviously the project being designed now can determine whether or not to use the existing junction, regardless of the thinking in the past.

KrisW1001

I wasn’t arguing with you, just saying that regardless of whatever yer man was saying it seemed odd.

However, since I wrote that, I had a quick look at Street View and that reveals that the current bridge over N5 has residential entrances on either side of it. That alone will make it stupidly expensive to widen. (Which leads to the question of why a completely new crossing for N17, with no residential accesses to it, was not done when N5 was upgraded here, but I suppose it was considered to be too expensive)

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380422#Comment_120380422

If the plan was always for a new junction and bridge then that's fair enough I suppose. The existing bridge wouldn't have involved much land aquisation so they just built it to get the existing N17 across the new N5 road.

cartoncowboy

Extension to Submissions - now March 31st

Extension granted to date for submissions on N17 Knock to Collooney project - Ocean FM

DumbBrunette

https://westernpeople.ie/2023/03/27/local-concerns-over-n17-route-must-be-heard/

..

discodaveirl

The project from Knock to Charlestown is not required, all thats needed along the whole of that stretch is a means of traffic calming and speed reduction for less than 500m outside Kilkelly at Barnahesker (Centra shop) a notorious accident black spot… A climbing lane from the bottom of the airport hill to the top and if your were to be extravagant a grade separated junction for the airport like the one just completed for the meelickmore junction in Claremorris. And maybe a bit of road realignment outside Charlestown.

veryangryman

Ugh killjoy. Dont let the planners hear ya. Everything is bloody watered down these days. Demand a Motorway to get 2+2.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423610#Comment_120423610

The N17 is the main road artery for the region linking 3 counties. Traffic calming on this stretch of road should not be considered an option and thankfully isn't being considered. As veryangryman suggests the road has already been downgraded from potentially a motorway to 2+2 and then further reduced to SC on this part of the road. Any further limitations added to it would be unacceptable in my view.

discodaveirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451470#Comment_120451470

Thats fair enough but its been the scene of many accidents from minor closures or delays upto and including one fatality

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120458370#Comment_120458370

Definitely safety improvements are paramount but I presume that they can incorporate that into the new design without having to reduce speed limits (e.g. improved junctions, sightlines, even bridges to prevent right hand turns if needed)

cartoncowboy

Lads, where do you even start with this. !! Seems Eamon never had any intention of doing this scheme, one would have wished he mentioned this sooner and save the expense/effort not mention angering the landowners. I'm sure local politicians will launch operation N17 to get it back in action.

This is hugely disappointing news if not that surprising with the current gov..

Local TD claims funding has been suspended for N17 Knock to Collooney Scheme - Ocean FM

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602684#Comment_120602684

Penny seems to be dropping here.

This scheme was allocated 400k in 2023 with the description "Funding in 2023 will meet current project commitments".

Almost every other scheme with this label has been effectively suspended or told not to proceed to the next stage (N2 in Louth, Mallow relief road, amongst others).

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602684#Comment_120602684

While it is very disappointing, the mock-outrage of the Shinners to any of these announcements is nauseating. I heard Mayo Sinn Fein TD Rose Conway-Walsh roaring on the radio recently at a Green party politician about the Western Rail Corridor something like: When are you going to build it? When? When?

Yeah, like the Shinners are going to build the Western Rail Corridor, the Atlantic Road Corridor, a hundred thousand houses, new elective public hospitals etc. etc. and all within the first week 🙄

cartoncowboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603378#Comment_120603378

I had quietly thought Ryan would reinstate the Galway - Sligo rail line if he's not a roads fan and is green, but no sign of that either, so nothing at all. Goes to show the talk of an Atlantic Economic Corridor is all just bluff to fool people and keep local politicians hanging on hope.

Its the guys in the Sligo roads office I feel most sorry for. Working on something for years and then to be told its put on the long finger. The same thing was done to them with the N15 Sligo to Leitrim border scheme years ago. Tonnes of work put in and then nothing and millions wasted. Like what is the point?

In my line of work we put a proposal in, along with a business case. Its its approved by top brass we go do it. In our road building it seems we go 50% of the way there, spend a fortune, then submit a business case and its a coin toss depending on who the minister is at the time. This why we have a infrastructure deficit - Seems backwards to say the least.

Earlier this week, Pascal D was apparently very concerned about the slow pace of delivery of the NDP, he made changes to some board somewhere, then 24 hrs later his buddy Eamon shuts down another project. The country seems stuck with nothing getting done. As many often say, no joined up thinking in government.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603828#Comment_120603828

Galway-Sligo will never happen. Sligo CC are working on a greenway on that line that will go from the Mayo border to Enniskillen