Most neglected Irish region

blue note

This thread seems to have become an urban vs rural debate (I'm using the word debate word kindly), but that's not the question posed. The OP asked which region was the most neglected which is a very different question. Certainly the Northwest and the Southeast would both like a university, but by not having one which is being more neglected? Indeed, are they being neglected at all? I'm often reading of towns of 10k people that don't want to travel half an hour to the next town to get hospital treatment, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're being neglected.

I'm from Waterford and would certainly feel the Southeast has a claim to the most neglected region in Ireland. I heard today that our mobile Cath lab is closing and the whole cardiac services issue is a perfect one to illustrate the neglect of the region (and why we get neglected actually). Apparently, one of the criteria used to determine whether or not your area warrants having 24 hour cardiac care is whether or not you have a population of approx. 500k. Now, taking the HSE figure of how many people UHW serves (for cancer treatment services) we're slightly over that at 505k or so (it might be slightly higher). So you'd think we meet the criteria to get a second cath lab and 24 hour care? No! They did an "independent" report which looked at whether or not we required a second cath lab based on current use. The significance of "based on current use" was that it left out all of those people who are closest to UHW, but currently being sent to other hospitals. I believe Kilkenny send their patients to James even though Waterford is far closer, so the report included 25% of Kilkenny's population. I would assume one of the reasons patients would be sent elsewhere is because UHW can't care for all of the people in the region.

But I suppose the point of outlining why the lack of cardiac care in the Southeast is ridiculous is because by just about any measure it was warranted. The Southeast has 1 9-5 cath lab in Waterford which is supposed to care for 280k people as per their report ignoring about 40% of the people in the area. Dublin has about 20 cath labs. Cork has 5 I think and Limerick and Galway have 2 or 3 each. All 4 other centres have more than 1 which means that an emergency can come in and they can still treat patients and all other centres have all others have 24 hour care which means that if you have a heart attack out of office hours you have a much better chance of surviving. A figure constantly quoted is that you need to be within 1 and a half hours of a cath lab to have the best chance of survival after a heart attack. Donegal is linked in to Northern Ireland so have this for most of the county. Sligo is outside of it for a lot of people. But by far the largest population outside of this crucial proximity to a centre is the Southeast. Most of Wexford is outside of it and a lot of Waterford's population. Add to that the fact that when someone is feeling unwell they'll probably be brought to the nearest hospital and have to be moved from there. Couple that to the distance from the hospital and the number of people who aren't going to get treatment within the crucial hour and a half timeframe increases dramatically again.

The main reason the government doesn't provide a second cath lab for the area is that the political pressure isn't there. The region is fragmented in itself and can't get behind developments in other counties. Basically no politicians from outside of Waterford did anything to support cardiac care for their region. The government managed to portray it as a local issue rather than a regional one because Wexford and Carlow / Kilkenny and South Tipp didn't do anything in the campaign. The Wexford politicians absolutely sicken me because their constituents are probably the most affected by it.

The cath lab isn't the only example of regional neglect. Waterford IT have campaigned for University status for longer than I've been alive. If it had it you'd have university education within commuting distance for hundred's of thousands more people. But there's no appetite to upgrade the IT. Unemployment was highest in the Southeast during and after the recession but the region seemed to be last to receive attention. And overall - look at Waterford city. I'm 31 and when I was born it was considerably bigger than Galway. Over my lifetime that has reversed. The region has not received the same investment as others in that time and has not really grown as a result. And now instead of it having a proper hub where people can hope to work after college, we have a small city and medium sized towns (KK, Carlow, Wexford). There's a severe lack of employment prospects in the Southeast outside of the public sector.

But the 2nd cath lab in the southeast is probably the best example of regional neglect I can think of. So the Southeast is my answer, but I'd be curious to read about where people think I'm wrong or where else you think is more neglected!

Hurling Hereford

Dr_serious2 wrote: »

What countries are already showing us that rural living is doomed?

Westmeath, Cavan, Monaghan, Laois

farmchoice

what is urban and what is rural in an Irish context. are small to medium irish towns rural or urban? if you live in castlebar for example are you an urban or a rural dweller?

i know people who live in castlebar consider themselves urban but when posters talk about future increased urbanization, are they talking about moving more people from the general castlebar area in to the town or are they talking about moving the whole show to galway.

i'm taking about the irish context here compared to the likes of china Dublin is a small town let alone castlebar.

blue note

farmchoice wrote: »

what is urban and what is rural in an Irish context. are small to medium irish towns rural or urban? if you live in castlebar for example are you an urban or a rural dweller?

i know people who live in castlebar consider themselves urban but when posters talk about future increased urbanization, are they talking about moving more people from the general castlebar area in to the town or are they talking about moving the whole show to galway.

i'm taking about the irish context here compared to the likes of china Dublin is a small town let alone castlebar.

The question posed was about regions in the OP, not urban / rural. You can discuss what urban means to everyone, but it's clearly not the question being raised.

I find it an interesting question, but it seems impossible for people not to get sidetracked into urban/rural or Dublin/country.

Dunmoreroader

blue note wrote: »

This thread seems to have become an urban vs rural debate (I'm using the word debate word kindly), but that's not the question posed. The OP asked which region was the most neglected which is a very different question. Certainly the Northwest and the Southeast would both like a university, but by not having one which is being more neglected? Indeed, are they being neglected at all? I'm often reading of towns of 10k people that don't want to travel half an hour to the next town to get hospital treatment, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're being neglected.

I'm from Waterford and would certainly feel the Southeast has a claim to the most neglected region in Ireland. I heard today that our mobile Cath lab is closing and the whole cardiac services issue is a perfect one to illustrate the neglect of the region (and why we get neglected actually). Apparently, one of the criteria used to determine whether or not your area warrants having 24 hour cardiac care is whether or not you have a population of approx. 500k. Now, taking the HSE figure of how many people UHW serves (for cancer treatment services) we're slightly over that at 505k or so (it might be slightly higher). So you'd think we meet the criteria to get a second cath lab and 24 hour care? No! They did an "independent" report which looked at whether or not we required a second cath lab based on current use. The significance of "based on current use" was that it left out all of those people who are closest to UHW, but currently being sent to other hospitals. I believe Kilkenny send their patients to James even though Waterford is far closer, so the report included 25% of Kilkenny's population. I would assume one of the reasons patients would be sent elsewhere is because UHW can't care for all of the people in the region.

But I suppose the point of outlining why the lack of cardiac care in the Southeast is ridiculous is because by just about any measure it was warranted. The Southeast has 1 9-5 cath lab in Waterford which is supposed to care for 280k people as per their report ignoring about 40% of the people in the area. Dublin has about 20 cath labs. Cork has 5 I think and Limerick and Galway have 2 or 3 each. All 4 other centres have more than 1 which means that an emergency can come in and they can still treat patients and all other centres have all others have 24 hour care which means that if you have a heart attack out of office hours you have a much better chance of surviving. A figure constantly quoted is that you need to be within 1 and a half hours of a cath lab to have the best chance of survival after a heart attack. Donegal is linked in to Northern Ireland so have this for most of the county. Sligo is outside of it for a lot of people. But by far the largest population outside of this crucial proximity to a centre is the Southeast. Most of Wexford is outside of it and a lot of Waterford's population. Add to that the fact that when someone is feeling unwell they'll probably be brought to the nearest hospital and have to be moved from there. Couple that to the distance from the hospital and the number of people who aren't going to get treatment within the crucial hour and a half timeframe increases dramatically again.

The main reason the government doesn't provide a second cath lab for the area is that the political pressure isn't there. The region is fragmented in itself and can't get behind developments in other counties. Basically no politicians from outside of Waterford did anything to support cardiac care for their region. The government managed to portray it as a local issue rather than a regional one because Wexford and Carlow / Kilkenny and South Tipp didn't do anything in the campaign. The Wexford politicians absolutely sicken me because their constituents are probably the most affected by it.

The cath lab isn't the only example of regional neglect. Waterford IT have campaigned for University status for longer than I've been alive. If it had it you'd have university education within commuting distance for hundred's of thousands more people. But there's no appetite to upgrade the IT. Unemployment was highest in the Southeast during and after the recession but the region seemed to be last to receive attention. And overall - look at Waterford city. I'm 31 and when I was born it was considerably bigger than Galway. Over my lifetime that has reversed. The region has not received the same investment as others in that time and has not really grown as a result. And now instead of it having a proper hub where people can hope to work after college, we have a small city and medium sized towns (KK, Carlow, Wexford). There's a severe lack of employment prospects in the Southeast outside of the public sector.

But the 2nd cath lab in the southeast is probably the best example of regional neglect I can think of. So the Southeast is my answer, but I'd be curious to read about where people think I'm wrong or where else you think is more neglected!

The shenanigans over the past week or so re the Mortuary at UHW and Leo's intervention provide further proof, if proof were needed, that the Southeast is the most neglected region in the country. Of course most of the national media completely missed the real story here, too busy Leo-bashing, that story being an old story; the ongoing institutionalised neglect by the permenant government of the Southeast region generally and Waterford as it's capital specifically.

The mortuary at UHW should have been replaced years ago but despite planning & funding green lights, the Dublin-centric HSE and the Cork-centric South/Southwest Hospital Group don't really want to develop University Hospital Waterford as the major acute regional hospital for the Southeast that it is supposed to be. We've already seen this attitude with the ongoing 'lack of a 24/7 cath lab at UHW' scandal. The coverage in national media again failing to tie this in with the mortuary story coverage - failing to join the dots....

The same institutional stonewalling by the Dept of Education, lobbied by Dublin & Cork based Universities has seen Waterford's decades-long campaign to have a University for the Southeast, driven up Cul-de-sacs, strangled at birth etc.(Dublin's got yet another Uni in Grangegorman while Waterford/the Southeast wait on..)
Same goes for Waterford Airport which, if developed to reach it's potential, would be a growth engine for the entire Southeast...but...but... it might pose a threat to state assets in Dublin, Cork & Shannon so even Minister Ross' announcement, finally, of support for the runway extension at Waterford Airport, having dragged it out for 2 years+, I'll not be holding my breath.

The Southeast region has not just been the most neglected region for decades under every government, but based on its 500k+ population, I would argue that it is the most actively disenfranchised region per capita, constantly loosing out or just getting crumbs in favour of its neighbouring regions i.e. Greater Dublin and the Southwest i.e. Cork. It should be a rich region like it's next door neighbours but they've ensured its more like the border region, the midlands or the West(except for politically-favoured Galway city).

lawred2

Dr_serious2 wrote: »

It's evident to me from reading boards that people from several parts of the country feel left behind by successive governments. In fact, I think I have seen people from every region (except South Dublin and the commuter belt) claiming to be the most disadvantaged.

Here in the west we feel somewhat hard done by, although I feel the Midlands has a similar case. Many in Donegal, Waterford and North-Inner City Dublin, amongst others, also feel that they have suffered from a lack of investment.

So which part of the country has been forgotten by the elites in Dublin?

Dublin

Suffers from serious under investment in infrastructure and housing...

And again today we see the government signing off on a multiple billion contract for broadband connections to one off developments... A 'deal' which will see urban users of broadband levied the same as the lad at the end of a boreen...

Heartbreaking really

Hurrache

The broadband thing gets on my goat every time there's politicians on about it. There's plenty in Dublin who have not yet been visited by private, or public, fibre and they're on the end of sub par broadband. And because they're in Dublin they won't be on the plans for any of the rural schemes so are basically left waiting for Virgin Media to invest in their area.

Harry Palmr

Why hasn't every eir cabinet in Dublin got fibre? No brainer surely?

lawred2

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Why hasn't every eir cabinet in Dublin got fibre? No brainer surely?

you'd have to ask eir*

law unto themselves


* you wouldn't get an answer

Hurrache

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Why hasn't every eir cabinet in Dublin got fibre? No brainer surely?

Even if every cabinet has, which most probably do, it's of no use if you're still on copper lines.

Harry Palmr

How many of these Dublin homes are not actually in Dublin proper I wonder? By which I mean in north county Dublin.

DEFTLEFTHAND

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Unfortunately you've provided evidence that social welfare dependency is a thing. I was never disputing that. You claimed they never works and never will. I wanted to see evidence of that claim and how extensive it.

Look at any sink estate in the country.

Hurrache

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How many of these Dublin homes are not actually in Dublin proper I wonder? By which I mean in north county Dublin.

I know of some that have a Dublin postcode, e,g, Dublin 15, so not all would be rural county Dublin. In fairness the numbers are coming down, usually due to Virgin, but those that remain at this stage are caught in the void between awaiting a private fibre provider to invest in the infrastructure, or will lucky to get caught in spill over from one of the rural schemes or the NBP.

edit: Matt Cooper talking about it and he just read out a text from someone in the exact situation I'm talking about, in Dublin, not too far from the airport and the M50, private companies aren't going to invest in the infrastructure out there so they're left with whatever can get to them via copper.

Harry Palmr

Obviously I don't know that area but if there are whole industrial zones on copper standard broadband it sounds like they should be putting their own plan in place.

lawred2

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Obviously I don't know that area but if there are whole industrial zones on copper standard broadband it sounds like they should be putting their own plan in place.

What?

Yet one off dwellings have the government falling over itself to throw billions at some crowd to wire them up...

Hurrache

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Obviously I don't know that area but if there are whole industrial zones on copper standard broadband it sounds like they should be putting their own plan in place.

They aren't industrial zones.

BluePlanet

Remote counties shouldn't be waiting for the arrival of massive billion euro infastructure projects.

They can start with local and simple things like greenways, pedestrian friendly areas and country cycle routes connecting every little town and village, like Holland.

Kilboor

oscarBravo wrote: »

...and if they want roads, electricity, telecoms, post, medical treatment etc, they can get stuffed. Why should those things be available to someone who chooses to provide the country with food security?



I can't see this thread being any different from all the other stupid threads on this topic. City dwellers will bitch about rural dwellers; rural dwellers will bitch about city dwellers. Some people will claim that it's vitally important that everyone move to the nearest city (or to just one city) as soon as possible, while not bothering to explain how such a thing is anything other than risible in practical terms.

The really annoying thing about these stupid discussions is that we had a perfectly good plan in the NSS back in the day, and what looks like a pretty decent plan in the NPF, to create relatively sustainable (meaning not the disaster we have now, and also not pie-in-the-sky stuff like everyone living in high-rise blocks in one megacity with their own compost heaps) development - but those plans never get implemented, because they're opposed by the megacity advocates on the one hand, and the "every regional town should have a fully-equipped hospital complete with emergency department" on the other.

If we spent less time resentful of everyone who doesn't choose to live exactly like ourselves, and more time working on making the best of what we have, we'd be a better society - but being resentful of others seems to come more easily, so we are where we are.

It's depressing, frankly.

This. Irish people are somehow the most giving yet greediest entitled people on the earth.

We're a nation of liars and chancers. People sitting on wealth claiming they're poor and rinsing the tax payer for as much money as possible out of fear of their neighbour.

Claims of a big happy together nation but in reality it's every man for himself, at least let's be honest about it in future. Me me me me.