Fine Universities that are denying free speech.

20Cent

Sounds like these speakers want a safe space for themselves.

Sitting in a lecture hall surrounded by security. Anyone who boo's, claps or even tuts to themselves is dragged out. Yay freedom.

The Legend Of Kira

20Cent wrote: »

Sounds like these speakers want a safe space for themselves.

Sitting in a lecture hall surrounded by security. Anyone who boo's, claps or even tuts to themselves is dragged out. Yay freedom.

 "" Anyone who boo's, claps or even tuts to themselves is dragged out. ""

Are you reading what others actually wrote or are you reading what you want to hear ? what I actually said in my previous post.

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]""  [/font]now if people boo or jeer a speaker after he or she has made their speech I have no issue with that as the speaker has argue their case & if people in the audience want to cheer or boo afterwards I take no problem with that. "" 

20Cent

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

 "" Anyone who boo's, claps or even tuts to themselves is dragged out. ""

Are you reading what others actually wrote or are you reading what you want to hear ? what I actually said in my previous post.

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]""  [/font]now if people boo or jeer a speaker after he or she has made their speech I have no issue with that as the speaker has argue their case & if people in the audience want to cheer or boo afterwards I take no problem with that. "" 

After.
So none during?

20Cent

White nationalist Matthew Heimbach giving a "talk" in the University of Tennessee right now. No problems yet. Dunno if there are designated clapping times though. Dozens of far right skin heads in black on the campus. Guess the Jewish, black and homosexual students should just stay away today in the name of freedom.

DickSwiveller

20Cent wrote: »

White nationalist Matthew Heimbach giving a "talk" in the University of Tennessee right now. No problems yet. Dunno if there are designated clapping times though. Dozens of far right skin heads in black on the campus. Guess the Jewish, black and homosexual students should just stay away today in the name of freedom.

Ye, stay away. You're finally getting it.

20Cent

Do we really want this to be a normal scene in a university?

20Cent

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Ye, stay away. You're finally getting it.

The mask slips.

ancapailldorcha

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Ye, stay away. You're finally getting it.

20Cent wrote: »

The mask slips.

Enough of this.

20Cent

Hi guys,
Lets debate how I don't think you should be allowed kill me and my family.

DickSwiveller

20Cent wrote: »

The mask slips.

My argument is that anyone should be free to speak. That doesn't mean I support nazi's, so stop trying to associate me with with white nationalists. I dislike them as much as everyone else does. I don't think the way to deal with these people is to silence them. See my David Irving example from earlier.

20Cent

DickSwiveller wrote: »

My argument is that anyone should be free to speak. That doesn't mean I support nazi's, so stop trying to associate me with with white nationalists. I dislike them as much as everyone else does. I don't think the way to deal with these people is to silence them. See my David Irving example from earlier.

So your ok with the scenes above. What about the kid who wants to use the library or go to a class and has all these guys on campus. What about their freedom.

The Legend Of Kira

Regarding Matthew Heimbach I woukdn,t be a fan of his politics too extreme right for me,, that said I wouldn,t be in favour of no platforming him or having him silenced, if he gets an invite to speak at a college/uni he can be challenged in open debate & whatever he might say or might not say its all out in the open,, vs banning such groups from speaking in public- if that happens if they get banned from speaking in public just because they may be banned doesn,t mean they re gone away you know, it just means they get driven underground instead.


With all the talk of dangerous speakers etc, when radical islamic preacher [font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Anjem Choundary spoke at Trinity years ago,,   I don,t recall any left wing opposition to him speaking nor do I recall any calls to have him no platformed- funny that left wing groups are nearly always silent when it comes to radical Islamic preachers be allowed speak at a college/uni .[/font]

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/controversial-cleric-to-speak-at-trinity-debate-1.798171[/font]

Brian?

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Regarding Matthew Heimbach I woukdn,t be a fan of his politics too extreme right for me,, that said I wouldn,t be in favour of no platforming him or having him silenced, if he gets an invite to speak at a college/uni he can be challenged in open debate & whatever he might say or might not say its all out in the open,, vs banning such groups from speaking in public- if that happens if they get banned from speaking in public just because they may be banned doesn,t mean they re gone away you know, it just means they get driven underground instead.


With all the talk of dangerous speakers etc, when radical islamic preacher [font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Anjem Choundary spoke at Trinity years ago,,   I don,t recall any left wing opposition to him speaking nor do I recall any calls to have him no platformed- funny that left wing groups are nearly always silent when it comes to radical Islamic preachers be allowed speak at a college/uni .[/font]

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/controversial-cleric-to-speak-at-trinity-debate-1.798171[/font]

What about the Muslims? Why won’t the left wingers challenge the Muslims? Dear lord the Muslims!

Why does it matter? The principle remains. Allow everyone to speak. Allow everyone to protest. It’s the only way everyone gets to speak without censorship. Censor the speakers and you’ve lost. Censor the protestors and you’ve also lost. Why can’t you see this.

I don’t want people shouted down. I don’t want to hear Nazis talk. But I don’t want to see the right to do either infringed. Simple.

Brian?

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

I ll reply to some parts of your post.

""  Now in neither scenario is anyone being censored. ""

If the speaker is being shouted down to the point where he/she can,t speak to the audience then yes the speaker is being censored + people in attendance in the audience their rights are also being infringed on if they can,t listen to a speaker speak about something then afterwards make up their own minds if they agree or disagree with points the speaker made.

""  But some people want to implement censorship, they want the protesters forcibly removed or stopped from entering. To me this is an infringement on their rights to protest ""

If a mob arrives with the intent purpose of shutting down a public meeting & if they get removed by security, that,s not censorship its allowing the meeting to go ahead without it being stopped by a self appointed mob, now if people boo or jeer a speaker after he or she has made their speech I have no issue with that as the speaker has argue their case & if people in the audience want to cheer or boo afterwards I take no problem with that.

"" they want the protesters forcibly removed or stopped from entering. To me this is an infringement on their rights to protest ""

Scenario experiment/ lets say a small mob enters a  meeting at their local council with the intent purpose of stopping the council meeting from taking place & if the council gets security & the gardai to remove the small mob so the council meeting can go ahead,  just because the small mob are stopped from preventing a council meeting taking place doesn,t mean that they re being censored.

On another note on a point of observation from earlier this afternoon, while I was in a local cafe earlier. I observed  there was a repeal 8th stall in the street/area-  a few feet away from the stall there was a silent pro life counter protest, they had non graphic banners while making their counter protest against the repeal 8th stall, while I was observing the pro life counter protesters they never interfered with the repeal 8th stall nor did they try shout down the people manning the repeal 8th stall either,  goes to show that some can still make their point peacefully while not interfering with the assembly of other people with an opposing viewpoint.

I’m sorry. But I’ve answered all of this enough times.

20Cent

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Regarding Matthew Heimbach I woukdn,t be a fan of his politics too extreme right for me,, that said I wouldn,t be in favour of no platforming him or having him silenced, if he gets an invite to speak at a college/uni he can be challenged in open debate & whatever he might say or might not say its all out in the open,, vs banning such groups from speaking in public- if that happens if they get banned from speaking in public just because they may be banned doesn,t mean they re gone away you know, it just means they get driven underground instead.


With all the talk of dangerous speakers etc, when radical islamic preacher [font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Anjem Choundary spoke at Trinity years ago,,   I don,t recall any left wing opposition to him speaking nor do I recall any calls to have him no platformed- funny that left wing groups are nearly always silent when it comes to radical Islamic preachers be allowed speak at a college/uni .[/font]

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/controversial-cleric-to-speak-at-trinity-debate-1.798171[/font]

Disagree, peoples right to live isn't "up for debate".

A lot of this is to normalize such scenes and intimidate. The university have a duty of care for their students inviting this lot onto the campus isn't fair.

The Legend Of Kira

Brian? wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

Regarding Matthew Heimbach I woukdn,t be a fan of his politics too extreme right for me,, that said I wouldn,t be in favour of no platforming him or having him silenced, if he gets an invite to speak at a college/uni he can be challenged in open debate & whatever he might say or might not say its all out in the open,, vs banning such groups from speaking in public- if that happens if they get banned from speaking in public just because they may be banned doesn,t mean they re gone away you know, it just means they get driven underground instead.


With all the talk of dangerous speakers etc, when radical islamic preacher [font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Anjem Choundary spoke at Trinity years ago,,   I don,t recall any left wing opposition to him speaking nor do I recall any calls to have him no platformed- funny that left wing groups are nearly always silent when it comes to radical Islamic preachers be allowed speak at a college/uni .[/font]

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/controversial-cleric-to-speak-at-trinity-debate-1.798171[/font]

What about the Muslims? Why won’t the left wingers challenge the Muslims? Dear lord the Muslims!

Why does it matter? The principle remains. Allow everyone to speak. Allow everyone to protest. It’s the only way everyone gets to speak without censorship. Censor the speakers and you’ve lost. Censor the protestors and you’ve also lost. Why can’t you see this.

I don’t want people shouted down. I don’t want to hear Nazis talk. But I don’t want to see the right to do either infringed. Simple.

"" What about the Muslims? Why won’t the left wingers challenge the Muslims? Dear lord the Muslims! ""

When people like 20cent go on about dangerous speakers speaking at public venues, but ignore radical islamic preachers, its nothing short of selective opposition if you re gonna say you support no platforming dangerous speakers at least don,t be selective about it .

"" Allow everyone to speak. Allow everyone to protest. It’s the only way everyone gets to speak without censorship. Censor the speakers and you’ve lost. Censor the protestors and you’ve also lost. Why can’t you see this. ""

Anyone is familar with my posts knows I fully oppose no platforming , Im not in favour of censoring speakers,  when you say " censor protesters " if its context of peaceful protest I have no issue with peaceful protest, but its it context of a mob trying to stop a public meeting from taking place & security removes them so the meeting can go ahead & take place, they re not censored just because they can,t interfere with the assembly of other people .

20Cent

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

"" What about the Muslims? Why won’t the left wingers challenge the Muslims? Dear lord the Muslims! ""

When people like 20cent go on about dangerous speakers speaking at public venues, but ignore radical islamic preachers, its nothing short of selective opposition if you re gonna say you support no platforming dangerous speakers at least don,t be selective about it .

"" Allow everyone to speak. Allow everyone to protest. It’s the only way everyone gets to speak without censorship. Censor the speakers and you’ve lost. Censor the protestors and you’ve also lost. Why can’t you see this. ""

Anyone is familar with my posts knows I fully oppose no platforming , Im not in favour of censoring speakers,  when you say " censor protesters " if its context of peaceful protest I have no issue with peaceful protest, but its it context of a mob trying to stop a public meeting from taking place & security removes them so the meeting can go ahead & take place, they re not censored just because they can,t interfere with the assembly of other people .

Excuse me don't know where you got that from not true at all.

Brian?

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

"" What about the Muslims? Why won’t the left wingers challenge the Muslims? Dear lord the Muslims! ""

When people like 20cent go on about dangerous speakers speaking at public venues, but ignore radical islamic preachers, its nothing short of selective opposition if you re gonna say you support no platforming dangerous speakers at least don,t be selective about it .

"" Allow everyone to speak. Allow everyone to protest. It’s the only way everyone gets to speak without censorship. Censor the speakers and you’ve lost. Censor the protestors and you’ve also lost. Why can’t you see this. ""

Anyone is familar with my posts knows I fully oppose no platforming , Im not in favour of censoring speakers,  when you say " censor protesters " if its context of peaceful protest I have no issue with peaceful protest, but its it context of a mob trying to stop a public meeting from taking place & security removes them so the meeting can go ahead & take place, they re not censored just because they can,t interfere with the assembly of other people .

But the protesters are peaceful and non violent. Even if they shout.

DickSwiveller

Brian? wrote: »

But the protesters are peaceful and non violent. Even if they shout.

How is the talk supposed to go ahead of they're shouting?

20Cent

DickSwiveller wrote: »

How is the talk supposed to go ahead of they're shouting?

How often does a talk get abandoned because the audience are shouting?

DickSwiveller

20Cent wrote: »

How often does a talk get abandoned because the audience are shouting?

Answer my question

Brian?

DickSwiveller wrote: »

How is the talk supposed to go ahead of they're shouting?

Many do go ahead. A small minority don't.

You want to censor protesters so a talk can go ahead? Is your solution to use physical coercion to remove someone for shouting?

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

200 cops cordoned off areas students were searched sounds like an inconvenience. Heimbach's talk was part of a "National Socialism or Death" tour.
Make America white again and white women who aren't having babies should be made do military service. Homosexuals should get the death penalty.
Dozens of Nazi skinheads who have beaten people in the past walking around. Pretty intimidating.

The Legend Of Kira

Brian? wrote: »

DickSwiveller wrote: »

How is the talk supposed to go ahead of they're shouting?

Many do go ahead. A small minority don't.

You want to censor protesters so a talk can go ahead? Is your solution to use physical coercion to remove someone for shouting?

"" You want to censor protesters so a talk can go ahead? Is your solution to use physical coercion to remove someone for shouting? ""

If a mob are prevented from stopping a meeting from taking place be it a public meeting or council meeting they re not being censored,, if you re at the cinema while a film is being shown or at [font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]theatre while a show is being performed onstage if you re talking loudly at either venue while a film is on or a show is being performed you re disturbing other people in the room, someone might complain you to a member of staff, if the venue happens to have some security you will be asked politely to stop talking loudly , if you refuse this request security will then want you to leave the venue so other people can enjoy the film or the stage performance-pretty similar to removing someone from a venue who wants to disrupt other people from engaging with a speaker at a meeting.[/font]

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] I have a little scenario experiment- a  theatre company is putting on a stage show of lets say for example ( the life of brian ) a small local religious group is against such a stage shown to be performed at the local [/font]theatre they threaten protests, the theatre decides a stage show of  ( the life of brian ) will go ahead despite threats of protests, now on the night the stage show is to be performed just as about the show is about to begin a small local religious group decides to start shouting loudly so the stage show can,t go ahead, they feel that they re engaging in what see as a [font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]legitimate protest, however other people in the venue who have paid money to see the stage show are pretty annoyed that a small group of people can disrupt things for everyone else, the theatre has some security at their venue & they decide to step in & remove the small number of people who keep shouting, Q for you does the fact that security has removed them mean in your opinion that they re somehow being censored ? [/font]

Brian?

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

"" You want to censor protesters so a talk can go ahead? Is your solution to use physical coercion to remove someone for shouting? ""

If a mob are prevented from stopping a meeting from taking place be it a public meeting or council meeting they re not being censored,, if you re at the cinema while a film is being shown or at [font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]theatre while a show is being performed onstage if you re talking loudly at either venue while a film is on or a show is being performed you re disturbing other people in the room, someone might complain you to a member of staff, if the venue happens to have some security you will be asked politely to stop talking loudly , if you refuse this request security will then want you to leave the venue so other people can enjoy the film or the stage performance-pretty similar to removing someone from a venue who wants to disrupt other people from engaging with a speaker at a meeting.[/font]

[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] I have a little scenario experiment- a  theatre company is putting on a stage show of lets say for example ( the life of brian ) a small local religious group is against such a stage shown to be performed at the local [/font]theatre they threaten protests, the theatre decides a stage show of  ( the life of brian ) will go ahead despite threats of protests, now on the night the stage show is to be performed just as about the show is about to begin a small local religious group decides to start shouting loudly so the stage show can,t go ahead, they feel that they re engaging in what see as a [font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]legitimate protest, however other people in the venue who have paid money to see the stage show are pretty annoyed that a small group of people can disrupt things for everyone else, the theatre has some security at their venue & they decide to step in & remove the small number of people who keep shouting, Q for you does the fact that security has removed them mean in your opinion that they re somehow being censored ? [/font]

Yes.

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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I suppose being searched and armed police everywhere when going to school is probably counts as normal now in the land of the free.

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/education/2018/02/17/white-nationalist-talk-university-tennessee-matthew-heimbach/343307002/

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Law enforcement are cops.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Yes is does: A few students explained they were frustrated with being searched and contained to a particular area because they pay tuition to the University of Tennessee.

Permabear wrote: »

You claimed that students were prevented from using the library or going to class, when the article notes that the event took place on a Saturday afternoon. How many UT students go to class on a Saturday afternoon?

I'll just check the timetable I have here ffs
You reckon no one thought to themselves maybe I'll skip college today since there are hundreds or cops and nazi's on campus, days after a mass school shooting.

Chris_Heilong

20Cent wrote: »

200 cops cordoned off areas students were searched sounds like an inconvenience. Heimbach's talk was part of a "National Socialism or Death" tour.
Make America white again and white women who aren't having babies should be made do military service. Homosexuals should get the death penalty.
Dozens of Nazi skinheads who have beaten people in the past walking around. Pretty intimidating.

Not all student protests are about the extreme example you have described(nazi, race supremacists), some of the speakers that have had protests against them have simply been people with a difference of ideology to the majority held by certain University campuses, such as more liberal Leftwing Universities which might have classes on subjects like Gender Studies and diversity Studies dont want to hear a more Conservative point of view as has happened many times to speakers like Ben Shipiro and Milo Yiannopoulos, these people would get protested just as much as any Nazi group which just goes to show there is no balance if we deny speakers based on student opposition.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Getting searched and sent to the designated protest area.
Freedom.
. Anyone wanting to enter the demonstration area will be moved through a checkpoint with metal detectors near the entrance to Circle Drive.

Permabear wrote: »

Again, the speech and protest took place on a Saturday afternoon. I don't think the students were thinking "maybe I'll skip college today" because classes are not normally held on a Saturday. Any student who wanted to use the library or other university facilities was, contrary to your representation, entirely free to do so.

Did you even do any research into this?
Message from the chancellor:

All classes and other events on the Hill are canceled for Saturday, and buildings will be locked. Other events on campus will go on as planned. The following buildings will be locked: Ayres Hall, Dabney-Buehler Hall, Science and Engineering Research Facility, Nielsen Physics Building, Hesler Biology Building, Austin Peay Building, Walters Life Science Building, Burchfiel Geography Building, Min H. Kao EECS Building, Dougherty Engineering Building, Ferris Hall, South College, Alumni Memorial Building, and Perkins Hall.

There will be no restrooms available to the public.

All roadways onto the Hill will close to vehicular traffic beginning at midnight Friday, including Circle Drive, Middle Drive, Estabrook Road, and Lower Drive. The 11th Street (G13) Garage and pedestrian bridge also will be closed.

Cars parked on the Hill or in the 11th Street (G13) Parking Garage after 5 a.m. Saturday will be towed. Towed vehicles can be claimed by contacting UTPD at 865-974-3114.

A buffer zone will be set up between Buehler Hall and the protest area. Only law enforcement officers and emergency personnel will be permitted in the buffer zone.

Units from the Knoxville Fire Department and ambulances will be on standby in the event of an emergency.

If you are in the area Saturday, be aware of your surroundings and report suspicious activity by calling UTPD at 865-974-3114 or by texting 69050. Type “VOLS (space)” before beginning your message.

Visitors to campus who wish to temporarily receive UT Alerts on February 17 can text 67283 then type the keyword “speaker17feb.” Read more about UT Alert.

The UT Police Department, at 1101 Cumberland Ave., is in close proximity to the protest area. Additionally, there are campus blue phones in the area that anyone can use to connect with UTPD.

Permabear wrote: »

As the university chancellor explains in the article, the university was constitutionally obligated to respect the right of the neo-Nazis to speak. It was also constitutionally obligated to respect the right of protesters to protest. The university, in my view, did a reasonably good job of upholding its constitutional obligations while making sure that other students were not unduly inconvenienced.

Your ongoing complaining about neo-Nazis on campus ignores the fact that, at a public university in the United States, they have a constitutional right to free expression, as the Supreme Court affirmed in National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie (1977).

I'm saying the university should not be obliged to host such talks. Students and staff also have a right to access their campus unmolested and go about their business during opening hours. Wonder how black, Jewish, female and their allies feel about this lot on their campus.

Even the libertarians were protesting!

Giovani Ciazza, a sophomore studying communications, was blaring "Why can't we be friends?" from a Bluetooth speaker and wearing a "don't tread on me" flag pinned with "socialism sucks" buttons.

"Because it does," the libertarian student activist explained. "But I'm walking with students who believe in communism and socialism because I feel like we should all get together to stand up against something that's wrong, like Nazis."

Jcarroll07

If organisations like Anti fa did not exist there would be no need for the such but the fact that last year they effectively fire bombed one of the universities means that they need to be checked. If they did it again there would be an outcry. Police would be asked why after seeing previous examples where anti fa attacked and set fire to campuses did they not this time take precautions to ensure that did not happen again. That is the main reason for the searches, a so called anti fascist organisation that dresses like, sounds like and acts like fascists ( yes i am effectively saying if it looks like a duck and quack like a duck its a duck) is going to these events with the intent of causing trouble and harming other people necessitating a police presence. Both for for the publics protection and as well for the kids stupid enough to get involved with anti fa because you can be sure as hell people of all types would react to such thuggish and facist like behaviour.

Ben Shapiro had went to UCLA Burkle twice last year or twice in 18 months (cant remember exact time frame) first time not a problem second time police had to spend over 600,000 on security because anti fa wanted to shut down with force his event. Should there ideally be not police present yes it was like that when i was in uni but when you have people who think they are justified in punching and physically attacking others for simply disagreeing with them then there needs to be precautions. Not saying they cant protest but there is a difference between protest and physically attacking people and engaging in political violence. I mean proper physically orientated political violence not this cr*p your words hurt my feelings.

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Said it should be free to control who speaks. I'd argue that it is hate speech which is illegal so maybe one of them needs to take a case. Only public universities seem to be obliged to host these groups private ones are not. Once again the benefits of having money.

Permabear wrote: »

Nobody was "molested." If the university and the police decided to take security measures that necessitated the temporary closure of some buildings on a Saturday afternoon, so be it. I'm guessing that if the same measures were taken during an anti-Trump protest, you wouldn't be complaining about them.

Buildings shut down, student searched, not even bathrooms open hardly a normal day. The point I was making was countering the argument that the talk in this case did not inconvenience students when it clearly did. A trump visit would have massive security restrictions of course. Much as I dislike him he's not advocating genocide, yet.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It's all very nice and happy clappy to claim to be a full on advocate for free speech and that anyone should be allowed say whatever they want. Easy to do when one is not the target of the hate speech. Everyone has a line. Mine would be at advocating and calling for ethnic cleansing.

DickSwiveller

20Cent wrote: »

Said it should be free to control who speaks. I'd argue that it is hate speech which is illegal so maybe one of them needs to take a case. Only public universities seem to be obliged to host these groups private ones are not. Once again the benefits of having money.




Buildings shut down, student searched, not even bathrooms open hardly a normal day. The point I was making was countering the argument that the talk in this case did not inconvenience students when it clearly did. A trump visit would have massive security restrictions of course. Much as I dislike him he's not advocating genocide, yet.




It's all very nice and happy clappy to claim to be a full on advocate for free speech and that anyone should be allowed say whatever they want. Easy to do when one is not the target of the hate speech. Everyone has a line. Mine would be at advocating and calling for ethnic cleansing.

"Hate speech" is the most idiotic, broad, subjective term. It is completely unworkable in a free society. By the way, whatare the "hate speech" laws in America?

The Legend Of Kira

20Cent wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Said it should be free to control who speaks. I'd argue that it is hate speech which is illegal so maybe one of them needs to take a case. Only public universities seem to be obliged to host these groups private ones are not. Once again the benefits of having money.

Permabear wrote: »

Nobody was "molested." If the university and the police decided to take security measures that necessitated the temporary closure of some buildings on a Saturday afternoon, so be it. I'm guessing that if the same measures were taken during an anti-Trump protest, you wouldn't be complaining about them.

Buildings shut down, student searched, not even bathrooms open hardly a normal day. The point I was making was countering the argument that the talk in this case did not inconvenience  students when it clearly did. A trump visit would have massive security restrictions of course. Much as I dislike him he's not advocating genocide, yet.

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's all very nice and happy clappy to claim to be a full on advocate for free speech and that anyone should be allowed say whatever they want. Easy to do when one is not the target of the hate speech. Everyone has a line. Mine would be at advocating and calling for ethnic cleansing.[/quote]
I ll reply to some parts of your post.

""  I'd argue that it is hate speech which is illegal ""

So called hate speech illegal where exactly ? Illegal in the United States ? I hate to be the one to break it to you but there are no so called hate speech laws in the United States nor is there any hate speech exception to the first amendment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/07/no-theres-no-hate-speech-exception-to-the-first-amendment/?utm_term=.f52c2a570dfd

"" Everyone has a line. ""

You said the other day.

"" Disagree, peoples right to live isn't "up for debate""



Based on what you have said yourself in your own very words "" "" Everyone has a line. "" & "" Disagree, peoples right to live isn't "up for debate"" with the upcoming repeal referendum, would you be ok if pro life groups starting to disrupt debates & public meetings in order to stop them from taking place ? after all you have said "" "" Everyone has a line. "" & "" Disagree, peoples right to live isn't "up for debate""

20Cent

DickSwiveller wrote: »

"Hate speech" is the most idiotic, broad, subjective term. It is completely unworkable in a free society. By the way, whatare the "hate speech" laws in America?

I presume you are against threatening people?
Saying you know where they live and you will kill them.
Or is that ok in the name of "free speech"?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

DickSwiveller

20Cent wrote: »

I presume you are against threatening people?
Saying you know where they live and you will kill them.
Or is that ok in the name of "free speech"?

That's incitement to violence and illegal. You don't even know the difference.

20Cent

DickSwiveller wrote: »

That's incitement to violence and illegal. You don't even know the difference.

How is a nazi campaigning for an ethnostate not incitement to violence or illegal?

DickSwiveller

20Cent wrote: »

How is a nazi campaigning for an ethnostate not incitement to violence or illegal?

It depends what they say. We don't punish thoughts. You're welcome to set up the thought police

20Cent

DickSwiveller wrote: »

It depends what they say. We don't punish thoughts. You're welcome to set up the thought police

Gas how, maybe we shouldn't have to host nazi hate speech turns into omg thought police.

DickSwiveller

20Cent wrote: »

Gas how, maybe we shouldn't have to host nazi hate speech turns into omg thought police.

20cent, this conversation has been going around in circles. You don't understand the difference between free speech and incitement to violence. Every time this is explained to you deflect and respond addressing something else. I'm done.

20Cent

DickSwiveller wrote: »

20cent, this conversation has been going around in circles. You don't understand the difference between free speech and incitement to violence. Every time this is explained to you deflect and respond addressing something else. I'm done.

I'm saying these Nazi speakers are inciting violence.

Valmont

B0jangles wrote: »

If a person is there to talk about the benefits of socialism or communism as a political theory why would the discussion devolve into talking about the innate inferiority of other people?

No it would involve talking about the innate inferiority of a class of people and the need to eliminate said class.

It's highly revealing that our yardstick in these discussions is whether someone is a Nazi or not. It seems simple to talk about the paradox of tolerance and the right to speak when we talk about something 99.9% of people agree is evil. It's laughable then some people are OK to say 'ah but the communists are fine because' even though the number of victims of communist regimes makes Hitler look like the Kinahan cartel in comparison.

Absolute free speech is crucial because bar one or two clear evil men most contentious issues are anything but clear cut. I'm sure there are people who think bankers shouldn't be allowed to give talks or members of socialist parties. The point is how are we ever going to let people see the truth or explore an issue for themselves if we don't let anyone talk about it. And considering universities are supposed to be the place for serious intellectual discussion of everything from atoms to the meaning of life, it's utterly risible so many of them are happy to let their students intimidate and harass speakers they disagree with - most of whom are labelled 'Nazi'!

Permabear

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