Insurance denied because policy holder is not registered owner?

DrPhilG

This is a follow up to another thread, here:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057826396

Regardless of the change of owner issue over there, my question here is about insurance payouts.

Basically I have been contacted by a guy I sold a motorbike to 7 years ago. For some reason (presumably documents lost in the post) the bike was never changed into his name and because he seemingly hasn't bothered his arse taxing the bike since, this error never came to light.

Now he says he has had an accident and wrote the bike off, but his insurance company won't pay out because he is not the registered owner.

Can the insurance company do this? I'm bricking it at the minute that he's presumably trying to drop me in it for his insurance claim!

To make matters worse, I can't contact him. He has only spoken to the guy who lives in my old house and didn't leave a contact number. So I'm left dangling waiting for him to come back.

DrPhilG

PS, the bike by now is fairly worthless, it's a 17 year old 125cc Suzuki. The value of the bike is probably less than the value of the back tax he would have to pay if I change the ownership over.

If his insurance company did void his policy, would a third party be covered in the event that he crashed into someone else?

cml387

Why do you want to contact him?

He has no case whatsoever against you.

DrPhilG

cml387 wrote: »

Why do you want to contact him?

He has no case whatsoever against you.

He has shown up once, I don't doubt he will come back.

I don't like stuff like this lurking in the background.

I'd rather get in contact, establish what he wants and get rid of him.

DrPhilG

Just had a chat with the guy living at my old address, who this bike man contacted.

He think (but isn't sure) that the accident involved a 3rd party, which would be the reason for the claim.

Didn't think he would be bothering to claim for an clapped out 17 year old bike.

So the question for him is whether his insurance company will just laugh him out of it or accept a backdated change of ownership.

frozenfrozen

as long as it's backdated correctly I can't see how he ever would have made a false declaration etc. He did own the bike for 7 years, the paperwork just went missing

TheShow

Lesson is that when you're selling any vehicle, you should always send off the log book with the new persons details - so you can be 100% sure it has been done.
The guy you sold the bike to hasnt bothered and now its coming back to bite him. I would say there is zero chance of the insurance company paying him anything as he is not the registered owner of the bike, and they look for any excuse not to pay these days.

I cant see how any of this could blow back on you, the only way to be 100% sure is if you had a proof of the sale to the current owner, but even without it, no way you can be held liable.

delta_bravo

From an insurance point of view this has absolutely nothing to do with you. In the event he was looking to claim for damage to his bike the insurer they might refuse him but they have to cover 3rd parties.

DrPhilG

delta_bravo wrote: »

they have to cover 3rd parties.

They could then pursue him for the cost though? Given that he made a false (albeit through carelessness rather than intentional) declaration when he insured the bike.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

as long as it's backdated correctly I can't see how he ever would have made a false declaration etc. He did own the bike for 7 years, the paperwork just went missing

Well like I say he did make a false declaration. He presumably didn't realise it was false, but ignorance isn't usually an excuse.

Him handing over cash and taking the bike doesn't necessarily make him the owner. Legally it's still mine!

frozenfrozen

DrPhilG wrote: »

They could then pursue him for the cost though? Given that he made a false (albeit through carelessness rather than intentional) declaration when he insured the bike.




Well like I say he did make a false declaration. He presumably didn't realise it was false, but ignorance isn't usually an excuse.

Him handing over cash and taking the bike doesn't necessarily make him the owner. Legally it's still mine!

Not sure about that, he definitely had an insurable interest in the bike since he had already paid for it no? You're the registered owner not the legal owner?

Sue Pa Key Pa

His insurers can refuse a claim for his own loss
His insurers must pay any 3rd party, but this does not mean he has cover for that and they may pursue him for their outlay
Legally, the bike is his, not yours, OP

Marcusm

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

His insurers can refuse a claim for his own loss
His insurers must pay any 3rd party, but this does not mean he has cover for that and they may pursue him for their outlay
Legally, the bike is his, not yours, OP

Even if the bike was still Dr Phil’s (or more properly that he couldn’t prove the transfer of ownership) he wasn’t riding it and he doesn’t maintain any insurance cover on it so he’s trebly covered!

the_syco

DrPhilG wrote: »

Basically I have been contacted by a guy I sold a motorbike to 7 years ago. For some reason (presumably documents lost in the post) the bike was never changed into his name and because he seemingly hasn't bothered his arse taxing the bike since, this error never came to light.

I'm guessing he didn't change the ownership, so any speeding fines would goto you. So remember that before you try bending over backwards to help him.

DrPhilG

Well this has turned out to be a bizarre false alarm.

Made contact with the fella tonight. He isn't actually the guy I sold the bike to at all. The guy I sold it to, sold it to someone else. The someone else passed away, his family sold the bike to a 3rd person and that person has taken the bike back over the border to the North.

No idea where the insurance story came from, some serious crossed wires.

Basically the guy I spoke to is fixing up the bike for the person who bought it. He was looking for the tax book in order to register it in the North and the search for the tax book took him to the Tax Office in Shannon, who gave him my name and old address, (isn't that a breach of confidentiality BTW?)

I don't think he is keen to go ahead with changing it into his name. He's worried about being stung for the tax even though he only took the hike on recently. Plus now that there are extra links in the chain of ownership, I have no way to get the name of who I sold it to, because that person sold it on and the guy he sold it to is dead!

Basically the guy who is currently fixing it up has a load of bike parts around and he's going to strip the parts and rebuild it on a frame he has in his garage. Thus essentially scrapping the old bike and rebuilding it onto a bike/frame that he does have a tax book for.

I'll just have to speak to the Motor Tax office in Shannon next week and explain to them that I don't know and have no way of finding out the details of the guy I sold the bike to. Not sure if they can then declare it off road or disposed of etc.

What an entirely bizarre situation.

cml387

Not really bizarre, except that you didn't do the correct thing back at the start. If you had, you'd never have known about this long trail.

Nate--IRL--

cml387 wrote: »

Not really bizarre, except that you didn't do the correct thing back at the start. If you had, you'd never have known about this long trail.

OP stated documents must have gotten lost in the post, (or I imagine off somebody's desk etc). Sounds like he sent in the Form to me.

Nate

DrPhilG

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

OP stated documents must have gotten lost in the post, (or I imagine off somebody's desk etc). Sounds like he sent in the Form to me.

Nate

Correct.

I have the email trail from 2010 where the local tax office sent me the form and the reply from myself thanking them for answering my questions and confirming that I had sent them off the previous day.

I know 100% that I sent them. But for whatever reason they didn't get where they should. Post issue, misfiled, whatever. We'll never know.