Limerick GAA Discussion Part 2

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538452#Comment_120538452

One good thing is we will know a hell of a lot more by the time that next game comes round.

Going by my amateur predictions I think 3 teams will end up on 4 points and qualification and a Munster final place will come down to scoring difference.

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120538482#Comment_120538482

Clare might be disadvantaged in that scenario, biggish loss to Tipp

Iecrawfc

Wouldn't mind Limerick being 3rd team out of Munster at this stage, could probably do without a big Munster final contest and might give a bit of space and time for players to get back into form again.

Browney7

Bit to digest from that performance. Well done to Clare, full value for the victory, wanted it more and they were fighting for their championship survival plus they always raise their game at the sight of a green shirt. Was a one point baytin' so to speak.

Reminded me a hell of a lot of the KK semi final in 2019 - flat, sluggish, awful wides and not taking chances. Did we miss 2 sitters of frees and another 2 or three very gettable ones? Should have been a goal up after a minute and then poor strikes into the Clare goalie soon after. It just felt like nothing went right last night - passes not going to hand, overhitting passes (Morrissey to O'Neill late on is seared into the memory).

The sluggishness is a worry - Clare seemed to be able to get in amongst us very easily whereas we struggled to shut them down at times. The puck out badly malfunctioned in the first half. Felt like the Clare tactic was to contest the ball in our half back line and then hit it over it - can't put my finger on how they managed to creat so much space for themselves!

Big worry is that changes are likely needed but where do you make them? I'd be tempted to put Coughlan in at 7 the next day and put Hayes up the field. Can't really experiment against Tipp in Thurles and it's do or die in three weeks so Kiely will likely stick. O'Neill and Morrissey and Flanagan carried the forward line effort well. WOD getting the early booking likely blunted his game a bit.

Best time of the year to have a total misfire but the lingering worry is this wasn't a one off and the performance level may not be there in three weeks time. Their odds went out to 4/6 from 1/2 last night if that brings some level of perspective to proceedings from our bookmaking cousins.

PeggyShippen

There is changes needed. There's no doubt about that. The rest is a tonic aswell but it has to be a worry that the likes of Mulcahy are brought on to make an impact in a battle like that.

Coughlan needs to start. And I agree Hayes has to return to the half forwards. That's a definate for me. Peter Casey needs to be benched. He's trying hard but no form. He fouls alot aswell. Id bring in O Dalaigh, chance him. What's to lose? Can always bring Pete on. There needs to be a shake up in midfield too. I'm O Donovans biggest fan but you can't have him and O Donoghue at the moment. He's too slow and O Donoghue is too important . Maybe English midfield. But none of the 20s were great. I'm sorry lads but Shane O Brien has a few years to go yet.. no top forward is using the hurley everytime when he needs to catch it first time. What's he got under 20...max 2 points a game

Quitelife

Cork winning by 9 points hands them a big scoring difference on top of two points today.

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534767#Comment_120534767

i am telling ye hes yours he's probably one of john caseys nephews either that or hes tommy lynch former limerick fc player and shrewsbury town captain back int he 90s now dose comentry on treaty united games , a south clare man with huge limerick connections

peggy did say he has west midlands connections in the uk that must be it , spill the beans peggy if your the nephew of the car dealer on the ennis road any chance you could get us a discount on the new Dacia duster 😂

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120541173#Comment_120541173

i dont think it dose too much damage to limerick , where's clare will probably still need to win all our games , we are -4 which is 13 points less then cork plus our bye week is round 5 the last round ,tipperary game is huge now

evolvingtipperary101

John Kiely didn't sounds too worried. Limerick always respond well to defeats. I don't see why this Limerick side is being questioned so much after a one point defeat?

einn32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120541518#Comment_120541518

It's not a surprise result. We drew with them last year and just got over the line in the final. We barely got over Waterford last year also. It's a game of inches in Munster every year.

The media/podcasts blow everything out of proportion. One minute we'll blow everyone away and the next we're not in form. Hopefully this takes some of the scrutiny of us for a while.

Quitelife

Any word on Sean Finns injury ?

letsseehere14

I think we have looked tired these last two games and the 3 week rest could not have come at a better time. We have actually looked like how Waterford did last year. Scraped past our first round then fell flat in the second. Is the league now a verified hindrance in the current structure?

Its a long road, I can still see us ending up on 6 points. Tipp are coming at us a little too soon for their own good and Cork when the chips are down struggle under real pressure. I can see another Limerick Clare Munster final. Wouldn't it be great. But we need to get our energy levels back. I think Clare are the only top team that have at best broke even with us over the Kiely era. You have to give them credit for that.

I was worried about depth at the start of the year. The league was promising but I was a little annoyed to see Mulcahy and Reidy being the ones called upon. No trust in the newer cohort yet. I can understand the Hegarty and Casey subs.

So, 12 of the team that started the first RR game in 2018 started against Waterford, 11 against Clare. Including subs 13 of the starters in round 1 2018 played some part on Saturday. It is asking an awful lot of players to keep that same level up over such a long period. Even the Kilkenny game in 2017, 10 of the starters that day 6 years ago played a part last Saturday. Its a special group I know, but new blood has to be given a change to mould into the starting team and add new energy or else we are condemning this them to more days like the last two weekends when their life span could be much longer. They have 3 weeks to get the concentration and energy levels back up.

Cian Lynch needs a new fitness coach too. Its as if he has gone hard into getting that bulky strong body but it really has been to the detriment of his athleticism and quickness of movement. He has not looked to be moving in any way freely this year. Too much bulk can put unseen pressure on the body that you would not expect especially in a game like hurling. Instead of wanting to look like a Finn or Hegarty he needs to revert back to his best body type, slim, quick and athletic. As it stands regardless of injury, he could be dropped, he is not adding anything at the moment.

Quaid, Casey, Morrissey, Nash, Byrnes, Hannon, Coughlin, O'Donovan, O'Donoghue, Morrissey, Hayes, O'Neill, Gillane, Flanagan, O'Dalaigh

With Hegarty, Lynch there to come in off the bench. I suspect it will be a few days before we know about Finn. Sounds drastic dropping both Hegarty and Lynch but in all honesty can anyone say they have played well enough in the last two games?

PeggyShippen

Good Post. I dunno about the extra muscle affecting Lynchs mobility. It shouldn't and doesn't for rugby players. You can retain your quickness and flexibility with muscle. But he's not in form or moving well at all . Its a genuine concern. I reckon this hamstring is serious enough. Finn is a huge worry. The fear is an acl of course. Fingers crossed he hasn't succumed

High bike

Don't know what all the doom and gloom is about tbh.People forget that Clare and Limerick drew 3 tmes last year so it was always going to be a tight match on Sat.Right we lost by point after shooting horrendous wides so could easily have drawn or got a narrow win.We beat Waterford having played half the match a man down and people still weren't happy.

We've now lost 3 championship matches in 5 yrs,don't think JK will be panicking just yet.Id be fairly confident Limerick will be one of the 3 teams to come out of Munster which at this stage is all that matters .

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543903#Comment_120543903

Its been a slow slide since the start of last year. I know it's man because we were unbeaten but it was only a matter of time. I still think Galway bottled the semi and the 20/21 Limerick team would have taken Kilkenny apart after the start we got. It would be nice to see our form on an upward curve again.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543903#Comment_120543903

The loss itself is an irrelevance I think. The chances of getting through so many matches without being caught somewhere were always slim and good that it happened in a non knockout game. Like you said top 3 is the thing. Injuries are clouding the situation though.

Iecrawfc

I think it's not so much the defeat but the amount of mainstays that are struggling for form in the first 2 games would concern you. Who knows, maybe they were planning on coasting the first 2 games then target the break and start to ramp up after that maybe. However I would like to see some new energy in there such as Couglan, A English, Murphy, it's funny a month ago the panel depth seemed great now it seems a little threadbare with 'old stagers' Mulcahy, Reid, Boylan etc. being brought on to make an impact.

PeggyShippen

Murphy needs to come in . If not now then when? He showed some great form and work rate in the league and has way more mobility than O Donovan who is an unrivalled passer and does a good job but legs are his issue. Limerick are still in a fine position, nothing too concerning really but abit more pressure on.

Coughlan is good enough to start against Tipp. Leave Lynch off and play Hayes up there and apologise to him for messing him around by switching him so often. Hegarty to start and Tom Morrissey on the frees from the start. Gillanes misses were awful. His wide from play off his right in the 2nd half was shocking as was Tom's in fairness..

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544930#Comment_120544930

Pundits who spent the whole league laughing at it also ended up telling everyone how brilliant Limerick were and pointing to the league when talking about strength in depth.

The young lads done great in the league but it was just the league. They wouldn't be starting based off league form alone.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545172#Comment_120545172

Hayes cleared out some amount of ball last weekend. You would want to be nuts to take him out of there unless it forced. Especially if Finn is gone.

C4000

Between last year's and this year's championship, we are seeing a trend where teams are consistently producing their best performances of the season in matches against Limerick. They haven't always been able to back these performances up subsequently. I don't think Limerick have dropped off massively - the form of our two matches this year is very similar to the equivalent games from last years championship, but we do see to have lost a certain amount of form.

Some of our best players are slightly below par, still playing well to an extent, but not producing the extraordinary performances that they have routinely managed in the last number of years......Lynch, Hegarty, Hayes etc. Hayes battled very well on Saturday but was under Savage pressure every time he got the ball. There was an element of tactical fouling to curb his influence also.

We're not managing to score freely from play. Our half back line and midfield have only contributed 1 point in total in the two games. Morrissey is showing serious leadership qualities in the half forward line, and Flanagan and Gillane still look dangerous up front, though Gillanes radar was off on Saturday.

You could see that Clare were 100 per cent committed to being first to every contested ball, showing great aggression ....in contrast, there were a few occasions where Limerick players were caught on the back foot. In a tight game these margins can be crucial.

I wouldn't be in favour of making too many changes for the Tipp match. According to TJ Ryan, the word in Bruff is that Finns injury is not serious.....whether he'll be back in three weeks is still a doubt.

I'd rebalance the scoring threat by bringing Hegarty back in. You have to back him to find form and deliver a performance when most needed. I think he's a massive confidence player. If Lynch is fit, he could drop out to midfield which would allow Cathal O'Neill to retain his place and give us an extra attacking threat.

One strange decision was bringing Mulcahy on in the closing stages. He's a legendary player who has been a great asset to Limerick, but he hasn't been a scoring threat at intercounty level in the last couple of years. O'Dalaigh had shown enough in the league to be given 10 minutes. At some point you do have to back the younger option.

Pogue eile

Is Kiely getting a bit of a free pass here? Obviously he has huge credit in the bank and will go down as one of the greatest ever but I cannot for the life of me understand what he was doing going all out for the league, it was and is bizzare. And at the end of the day the few new players he got from it he doesn't seem to trust enough to start.

People will say oh but shur Kilkenny used to take the league seriously and still won the AI every year, they did but that was and is the huge luxury of competing in the Leinster Championship as opposed to the Munster Championship. The new calendar makes it even a bigger challenge.

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546808#Comment_120546808

How did Limerick go all out to win the league. They rarely had close to their strongest team out

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546808#Comment_120546808

We didn't go all out for the league we played pretty much the same mix of A and B players as last year it's just our form was better and others worse.

Cian Lynch didn't look like a man who went all out when he lifted the trophy.

Pogue eile

Fair enough we will agree to disagree, looked like a team hell bent on winning a league and putting down a marker in both the semi and the final to me.

The team that was named for the league final, before the late deflections was as follows; Nickie Quaid; Sean Finn, Dan Morrissey, Barry Nash; Diarmaid Byrnes, Declan Hannon, Kyle Hayes; Darragh O’Donovan, Barry Murphy; Gearóid Hegarty, Cian Lynch, Cathal O’Neill; Aaron Gillane, Séamus Flanagan, Peter Casey

That is not a mix and match its a team with 13 All stars and is a team that is going all out to win the league.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546942#Comment_120546942

We played a strong team once we got that far but the teams we played up to that were the same as last year when we were crap. The difference I think was last year a few teams were hell bent on beating us. Cork, Galway and Clare were looking for blood last year. Galway and Clare practically rolled over this year.

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546969#Comment_120546969

That's kind of my point though, Galway and Clare were obviously holding back because of the proximity of the championship, really think Kiely should have done the same, the mileage on this team is huge and it will take its toll, one could argue the injury list and the last two performances suggest it is already taking its toll.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120546993#Comment_120546993

Or championship so far has only been 1 Clare point different to last year despite not playing well in the league last year.We got 3 extra points in the league to last year using a similar team and played the final in neutral never mind 1st gear.

This loss to Clare has been on the cards for a while now. We rarely looked our best last year but got over the line but we were gonna get caught some day.

It's always the fekin same with the league. Loads of hindsight thrown into league form when in fact it probably matters very little either way.

breezy1985

Tailteann Cup draw was earlier today

Group 3: Limerick, Wicklow, Longford, Carlow.

Fixtures are preordained so it's Longford at home, Carlow away and Wicklow neutral in that order.

billyhead

The gap is closing. It was only a matter of time before Limerick were beaten. No team could sustain there level of victories. I would still think we will be there or thereabouts at the business end of the championship.