N24 - Cahir to Waterford [design and planning underway]

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667435#Comment_121667435

There's nothing there to say the 2+1 sections will not be widened, or the Clonmel relief road.. And nothing is said about the new build stretches. I'll wait until the design is shown.

The safety issue here is private entrances. For on-line stretches, removing these entrances will need a lot of work and new access roads, at which point you're nearly a lot of the way througb the work needed to widen to 2+2.

To be honest, either side of Clonmel, there's not much traffic and a wide single with very limited junctions would solve the problems here... just leave enough space under any bridges (as they do now) for future widening. Wheher Clonmel will work depends as much on the off-line link roads to the north as the N24 mainline.

hans aus dtschl

I'd like to see the design. Some sections definitely will need to be 2+2 but I'm struggling to understand the overall needs here.

Proposing a motorway from Limerick to Waterford, while Cork to Waterford still has a 1+1 (and no upgrade plan) would seem on the face of it to possibly be overkill.

The obvious thing everyone agrees on here is to futureproof any new works with enough CPO to cover 2+2 (or motorway).

idi na khuy hai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669981#Comment_121669981

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669981#Comment_121669981

But an upgraded N24 to motorway spec would mean that you could go a not particularly long way round route from Waterford to Cork via M8 and M24.

Even if the N24 was "only" upgraded to 2+2, it would still be an attractive route, I would think.

Would take serious pressure off the N25 IMO with HGVs in particular.

Would also funnel more revenue through the Fermoy toll.

I could see TII considering it IMHO.

BagofWeed

So they didn't decide what type of road it would be before they chose a route ! This is the 2020's and it's backwards we are going.

If it's to be any more than a two lane or WS2 on most of the chosen route then good luck with that, heaps of houses and businesses would have to go.

The design team have stated that there will not be any houses demolished or CPO'd on the Clonmel IRR therefore we can assume it will be a two laned road like it is today. The largest town on the route !

https://www.facebook.com/100000733743519/videos/1072816700632458/ Some interesting commentary from a road activist from near Limerick Junction here. D Moloney, he is an activist regarding the N24 Cahir to Pallasgreen project.

road_high

Logistically how would they even upgrade the Clonmel bypass? It’s a very busy route and would cause extreme disruption for little enough gain. This scheme baffles me in its lack of ambition and will. Not forgetting the N24s very poor safety record

KrisW1001

Online widening has been done, and it can still be cheaper than an offline build. In Clonmel especially, there's really no better route for a Bypass than the existing N24. Anything else is too much of a diversion or starts to get into difficult terrain.

And converting this road to 2+2 would be a lot more than "little enough gain". Even closing direct entrances and grade-separating one of the roundabouts, as indicated, would be a huge benefit to through traffic.

@BagOfWeed - route cross-section is never fully decided at this point. There is, somewhere, a target of what it will be, based on the need. Here, that would be 2+2 - anyone suggesting a motorway on this corridor has been helping themselves to your bag. Once the corridor is decided, then the decision is made about whether that cross-section is required for the full length, and then the design starts.

Until you know where the road is going exactly, you don't know exactly how much traffic it will need to take. Sometimes a new road ends up carrying both local and though traffic, and sometimes the route ends up splitting through traffic from local. When you split traffic, a single might be fine - especially if it has no intermediate junctions, but if you go closer to towns, then you could end up needing a dual.

But, the through-traffic along this route doesn't need anything more than a high quality Type 1 Single. The safety issues and congestion are down to the excessive number of entrances on the existing road, and its lousy alignment in South Kilkenny. Clonmel needs additional capacity, because there's no better way past it than the current N24, but if the rest was up to same standard as N25 through Co. Waterford, there'd be no issues,..

Jayuu

I think most would agree that the preference would be for 2+2 to allow for some future proofing. There might be terrain issues around a potential new Clonmel section and some consideration might have to be given as to where the N76 would merge with the new road (or whether it would merge with it). However Kilsheelan, Carrick-on-Suir and Mooncoin should be easily bypassed and I don't see any reason why you might not want to incorporate the 2+1 section at Piltown/Fiddown into a 2+2 option depending on how you bypassed Mooncoin.

Maybe we should all wait until we see exactly what is proposed before we make any final judgements.

road_high

Would imagine the 2+1 piltown and cahir bypass sections could be converted to 2+2 fairly easily

road_high

It’s probably not a bad ideas to use existing land and alignments so long as it is down to a high standard. It’s common enough in the U.K. to have A roads that mix single and dual carriageway sections

steeler j

17% of traffic on clonmel inner relief road is bypass traffic . It was felt it would be too expensive to build a new bypass for only that amount of traffic. Kilsheelan is 90% of traffic is bypass traffic ,Carrick on suir is 51 %. Carrigeen roundabout to remain , Cashel Rd or Fethard rd are to be removed and replaced with a bridge. Some sections of the CIRR to be widen .An offline section between Cahir and Clonmel between Moorstown and Rathkeevin .

road_high

Will the Clonmel bypass itself be upgraded to 2+2 sections?

FGR

Is the speculation on TII going back to the bad old days of single carriageway routes primarily based on our current Minister for Transport?

The Green Party in general have a very frustrated view on road infrastructure - future proofing is the last thing they will consider unless it's a deterrent to road use.

Is there any likelihood of another reshuffle coming up, or at least one where the greens will concede this dept?

steeler j

7.5 million is required for phase 3 and 4 of this scheme. Council officials are worried that it will be put on the back burner because of the lack of funding this year.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029907#Comment_122029907

May as well put it on the back burner. It's far down the priority list and it can be revisited when a scheme that would actual merit being funded can be put back on the table.

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029967#Comment_122029967

The council seem to be trying to secure funds for the other section as its more advanced section which, I understand. There is little money available so spend it on something that will get something further ahead , get some part of it to phase 4 .

Christy Browne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029967#Comment_122029967

I don't understand how the main road between our 3rd and 5th cities can be so far down the priority list compared to some of the rural roads that have been developed and pushed forward recently?

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030227#Comment_122030227

I drove Limerick city to Waterford city and back last week. Was shocked when I looked at it on Google maps in advance to see that the M9/N77/M7 was only 10 mins slower, and probably a lot more reliable as it's largely dual as opposed to single carriageway. Refusing to progress the upgrading of this route on environmental grounds is having the the opposite of the intended effect if people end up driving 187km instead of 128km.

Christy Browne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030355#Comment_122030355

It's a disgrace, especially when you consider the opportunity for onward travel from Limerick to Galway on the M18. Essentially a primary road linking our 3rd, 4th and 5th cities has been mothballed in favour of far less critical projects. Carrick-On-Suir, Clonmel and Tipp Town are all major bottlenecks that need to be addressed urgently. It's absolutely stunting regional development.

Limerick74

not sure if too many would drive the longer route as fuel costs would be significantly higher

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031686#Comment_122031686

Fair point. Based on my average long term consumption and current fuel prices, the additional 59km (37 miles) would cost me €6.16. So it's a bit like the M8 toll at Fermoy. Some people pay it every time, Some never pay and inflict upon themselves the misery of diving through Fermoy. Would I pay it ? Far the pleasure of a more relaxed and more predictable drive, Yes, in a heartbeat.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031686#Comment_122031686

it’s not the first time I’ve read it here that people use that route and who can blame them. Another bit of the N77 near Ballyragget is being realigned 2 km or so which albeit small will further improve this route. When was the last time any of the N24 was realigned?

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122032290#Comment_122032290

Last year, at Piltown. 1.8 km widened from 2+1 to 2+2, with one at-grade junction realigned into a grade separated junction.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122033476#Comment_122033476

I didn’t know a 2+2 upgrade was part of these improvements I thought they were just doing the junction itself