Liverpool vs Everton

Bret Hart

How long is it now since Everton last won a Merseyside Derby ? Must be near 10 years ? Very poor goalkeeping for the winning goal.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Bret Hart wrote: »

How long is it now since Everton last won a Merseyside Derby ? Must be near 10 years ? Very poor goalkeeping for the winning goal.

16 games since they last won, over 7yrs ago.

Mr.H

M!Ck^ wrote:

Taste the FA? Weird stuff

Nice to see the obsession is still strong. A united game took place last night also Mick just so you know ye won 2-0

Sad

SlickRic

Mick, you came in with info. Perfect. No issue with that obviously.

You then speculated that it 'could be Suarez 2.0. I wonder how Liverpool will handle it this time around it'. Plus you liked a fellow fan's post saying 'It's a term of endearment in Brazil'.

There's nothing wrong with this as a rival fan. Just own it. Don't try and suggest others are being sensitive because they're saying you're getting a bit excited. It's easy to say 'but I'm not getting excited' when you're sitting behind a screen and we can't see you. But your posts suggested a little conclusion jumping. That's all.

As I say, own it. You'd love it to end in Suarez 2.0.

Either way, the FA had to investigate. It means nothing currently. Unfortunately many people will assume there's some guilt there, purely because there's an investigation.

Cyrus

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Grand, as I said let's see what the FA say

Mick

Can you confirm at this stage that the fa are investigating Suarez 2.0 or Firmino 1.0

Cheers

Liam McPoyle

SlickRic wrote: »

Mick, you came in with info. Perfect. No issue with that obviously.

You then speculated that it 'could be Suarez 2.0. I wonder how Liverpool will handle it this time around it'. Plus you liked a fellow fan's post saying 'It's a term of endearment in Brazil'.

There's nothing wrong with this as a rival fan. Just own it. Don't try and suggest others are being sensitive because they're saying you're getting a bit excited. It's easy to say 'but I'm not getting excited' when you're sitting behind a screen and we can't see you. But your posts suggested a little conclusion jumping. That's all.

As I say, own it. You'd love it to end in Suarez 2.0.

Either way, the FA had to investigate. It means nothing currently. Unfortunately many people will assume there's some guilt there, purely because there's an investigation.

It's clearly a non issue, RF plainly calls him a puto which is a Spanish insult, nothing racial in it.

Richard Hillman

Firstly, the referee was literally in between them when it happened. If Holgate heard something, then the ref would have.

Secondly, I thought Firminio was half black himself?

FutureGuy

One second, I thought Firmino called him a Son of a Bitch and nothing more? If you look at the incident, Firmino was clearly angry (and rightly so) but he spoke right in front of a referee and other Everton players and no one else reacted.

Racism is something that should not be tolerated in any form on the pitch and if it’s found that he did use a racist term, then he should be punished accordingly. However, I cannot believe that he said something racist and only Holgate heard it.

Apologies but comparisons to Suarez are very unfair. Brilliant player but total headcase when he lost the temper. Firmino, to my knowledge, has no track record of any type of poor behaviour.

Hopefully it was just a case of Holdgate mishearing things.

redzerdrog

Handy way to escape a certain booking all the same

thegills

Zaid Melodic Bearer wrote:

"Television evidence suggests however, that Holgate was mistaken, with pictures appearing to show Firmino apparently mouthing a Portuguese phrase “loco putaâ€, which roughly translates as ‘crazy mother******."

Basic lip reading would confirm that. Watched the game with my kids and we all saw the same thing. Liverpool should report Holgate for slander and the referee for not taking any action against Holgate. Rooney should have seen red also.

Business Cat

Business Cat wrote: »

It's clearly a non issue, RF plainly calls him a puto which is a Spanish insult, nothing racial in it.

It's quite funny to see such staunch defence of this with out the facts. It's an issue for both players involved.
And also no idea if anything was said off live camera.
You would have thought it would have been a lesson learned from the last time but certain fans seem rabid in the defence of this, all portuguese lip readers it seems.
However, It sounds like Liverpool as a club are fully cooperating. I highly doubt you will see them running around in training with firmino T-shirts this around either.
So again let the investigation be the judge of what was and wasn't said.

The saddest thing I've read on here in a long time and that's saying a lot.

Osmosis Jones

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's quite funny to see such staunch defence of this with out the facts. It's an issue for both players involved.
And also no idea if anything was said off live camera.
You would have thought it would have been a lesson learned from the last time but certain fans seem rabid in the defence of this, all portuguese lip readers it seems.
However, It sounds like Liverpool as a club are fully cooperating. I highly doubt you will see them running around in training with firmino T-shirts this around either.
So again let the investigation be the judge of what was and wasn't said.

Where are you getting this idea that something happens off camera when the entire incident literally happens on the pitch with dozens of cameras focusing on it?

Holgate pushes Firmino on the pitch

Firmino gets up and runs at him on the pitch

Firmino shouts at him on the pitch

Holgate tells the ref he's just racially abused him on the pitch

the ref walks across the pitch and reports it to the 4th official

At what point did Firmino find the time to get away from the cameras?

j8wk2feszrnpao

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's quite funny to see such staunch defence of this with out the facts.

Even funnier that you don’t have a post towards anyone suggesting racism asking for facts
Clear agenda on your part, you don’t even hide it.
You’re hoping for it so much, which is sad that you actually want an act of rascism to have take place.
And why keep referring to Suarez and not something more recent like the singing of some Utd fans at their games?

Grayditch

I'd admire Mick for this in a way of he had any charisma or a humorous bone in his body, but yeah this is just sad to watch.

Osmosis Jones

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Where are you getting this idea that something happens off camera when the entire incident literally happens on the pitch with dozens of cameras focusing on it?

Holgate pushes Firmino on the pitch

Firmino gets up and runs at him on the pitch

Firmino shouts at him on the pitch

Holgate tells the ref he's just racially abused him on the pitch

the ref walks across the pitch and reports it to the 4th official

At what point did Firmino find the time to get away from the cameras?

It's a fantasy.

Dilirious at the thought of a Liverpool player has racially insulted someone from a forum in Ireland.

:pac:

ERG89

Zaid Melodic Bearer wrote:

16 games since they last won, over 7yrs ago.

Hodgson era, dark days. Liverpool played well that day; according to Roy anyway.

ERG89

ERG89 wrote: »

Hodgson era, dark days. Liverpool played well that day; according to Roy anyway.

Thought Moyes gave a good account of himself in the Merseyside derbys when he was manager. Can't remember if he actually won any of them though

Cyrus

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's quite funny to see such staunch defence of this with out the facts. It's an issue for both players involved.
And also no idea if anything was said off live camera.
You would have thought it would have been a lesson learned from the last time but certain fans seem rabid in the defence of this, all portuguese lip readers it seems.
However, It sounds like Liverpool as a club are fully cooperating. I highly doubt you will see them running around in training with firmino T-shirts this around either.
So again let the investigation be the judge of what was and wasn't said.

Mick you seem to have the inside track how is the fa investigation progressing ?

Liamalone

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Thought Moyes gave a good account of himself in the Merseyside derbys when he was manager. Can't remember if he actually won any of them though

Think he won one, maybe two, I have the dvd somewhere (I don't really). He didn't do too bad sometimes but results speak for themselves o suppose.

Cantona's Collars

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Secondly, I thought Firminio was half black himself?

Well his teeth are most certainly white.

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

Mick you seem to have the inside track how is the fa investigation progressing ?

It's a blank sheet of paper I'd guess.

SlickRic

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's quite funny to see such staunch defence of this with out the facts. It's an issue for both players involved.
And also no idea if anything was said off live camera.
You would have thought it would have been a lesson learned from the last time but certain fans seem rabid in the defence of this, all portuguese lip readers it seems.
However, It sounds like Liverpool as a club are fully cooperating. I highly doubt you will see them running around in training with firmino T-shirts this around either.
So again let the investigation be the judge of what was and wasn't said.

To be fair, you'd be the first to be defending a Utd player if if was them involved (and rightly so), and asking people to stop speculating about what happened without the facts (and rightly so).

Rumple Stillson

The allegations against Firmino (T-shirt at printers) have overshadowed the shove by Holgate which I thought was at least a yellow and if common sense prevailed, a red. I wonder will the FA take any action on it.

So who won anyway

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

To be fair, you'd be the first to be defending a Utd player if if was them involved (and rightly so), and asking people to stop speculating about what happened without the facts (and rightly so).

Tbf I have said multiple times let the FA investigation decide! It's all speculation on either side of the issue at this point

Liamalone

RoboKlopp wrote: »

So who won anyway

Liverpool won, for a change Darn voodoo hoodoo melarkey still in full effect

Ordinary man

I wonder did rhian brewster get as much abuse when he said he was racially abused while playing for liverpool? Afaik th club and supporters wanted a full investigation and he wasn't ridiculed and hounded on twitter by rival fans

5starpool

Ordinary man wrote: »

I wonder did rhian brewster get as much abuse when he said he was racially abused while playing for liverpool? Afaik th club and supporters wanted a full investigation and he wasn't ridiculed and hounded on twitter by rival fans

Aren't Liverpool fans awful? Just the worst. All of them. No other team's fans would say anything untoward on twitter.

My monocle just fell out with the shock.

sword1

Ordinary man wrote: »

I wonder did rhian brewster get as much abuse when he said he was racially abused while playing for liverpool? Afaik th club and supporters wanted a full investigation and he wasn't ridiculed and hounded on twitter by rival fans

The incident we are talking about was covered by multiple cameras, most of the newspapers I read it in say that the allegation is wrong. It was timed conveniently to distract from an incident that would be a sending off offence in alot of games.

TitianGerm

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Well his teeth are most certainly white.

There new :pac: he uses them to blind defenders !!

klose

The FA aren't to launch an investigation till Monday when they get the refs match report apparently.
Reckless from Holgate before hand, what ever about hurting Firmino he could have hurt spectators then also.

irishman86

From the video he said you crazy, you crazy, son of a bitch
Firmino is native/black/european and Holgate is half cast, i smell bs
People are talking about Holgates slow reaction, last time i checked he doesnt speak Portuguese and looks like he was searching for the meaning of what Firmino was saying

Harry Palmr

Holgate will get the book thrown at him retrospectively for exactly that public elfandsafety. I think Bobby Madley has to be booted down to League Two for the same reason.

Super-Rush

Originally I did think Bobby spat at him, but the replay clearly shows he had actually said puta/puto.

We'll have to wait and see what was said along with that term.

If he gets done for foul language then we may as well give up.

Tom.D.BJJ

Rumple Stillson wrote: »

The allegations against Firmino (T-shirt at printers) have overshadowed the shove by Holgate which I thought was at least a yellow and if common sense prevailed, a red. I wonder will the FA take any action on it.

I'm confident Holgate will get a ban because no action was taken on the pitch. Thought the ref was extremely poor from what little I've seen.

I understand a good bit of Portuguese myself and don't think Firminho said anything untoward. Not a lip reader though

Rumple Stillson

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

I'm confident Holgate will get a ban because no action was taken on the pitch. Thought the ref was extremely poor from what little I've seen.

I understand a good bit of Portuguese myself and don't think Firminho said anything untoward. Not a lip reader though

Well the alleged comment appears to have been said while Firminos mouth was blocked by Milners head. To be honest, if it was caught on camera, we would have seen it by now. You'd like to think if the referee heard it it would have been a straight red, but you wouldn't know with Maddely.

I'd be cautious about defending Firmino too vehemently. Racial insults are more "acceptable" in south america it appears and he could have said something in the heat of the moment. Hopefully its just a misunderstanding. Holgate should get a game or two for the shove in my opinion. Its dangerous play.

Trigger

No one knows what Firmino said after he called him a “son of a whore” Fila de puta wasn’t it.. it seems that you can see that Holgate is calm at that point and then when Firminos face is blocked, apparently something else is said and Holgate goes ape****.. no point in us speculating what was said as it would be out there if it was seen.

Holgate told the ref “he just called me a fûckin n*****”

https://twitter.com/dejimancz/status/949384915283578880

If Holgate is judged to have lied about something like that to get an opposition player banned/sent off he should have the book thrown at him.

If Firmino is judged to have said it. He should have the book thrown at him.

We will all have to wait and see what comes of the FA investigation, unless a clip of that point can be seen

fyfe79

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Holgate will get the book thrown at him retrospectively for exactly that public elfandsafety. I think Bobby Madley has to be booted down to League Two for the same reason.

Yep, Holgate knew well that Fermino would end up in the crowd... very dangerous to have a player going head first over advertising boards and into a seated crowd with his studs flying after him.

Wasn't a fan's head split open a few years back when that German defender playing for Fulham went into the crowd in a similar fashion?

Tom Mann Centuria

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Holgate will get the book thrown at him retrospectively for exactly that public elfandsafety. I think Bobby Madley has to be booted down to League Two for the same reason.

What has League Two done to deserve this punishment?

irishman86

irishman86 wrote: »

From the video he said you crazy, you crazy, son of a bitch
Firmino is native/black/european and Holgate is half cast, i smell bs...

Dear God.

Is that irony or you genuinely not realise that the term "half caste" is derogatory and pejorative?

sword1

astradave wrote: »

No one knows what Firmino said after he called him a “son of a whore” Fila de puta wasn’t it.. it seems that you can see that Holgate is calm at that point and then when Firminos face is blocked, apparently something else is said and Holgate goes ape****.. no point in us speculating what was said as it would be out there if it was seen.

Holgate told the ref “he just called me a fûckin n*****”

Grasping at straws, sure maybe he said it in the tunnel before the game, Holegate is the only one using the n word

Trigger

sword1 wrote: »

Grasping at straws, sure maybe he said it in the tunnel before the game, Holegate is the only one using the n word

How am I clutching at straws? I’m just showing that Holgate made the accusation to the ref and that’s where the investigation is coming from.

I have said if he is lying about it he should have the book thrown at him, but yeah, you conviently left that out when quoting my post

nice_guy80

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

I'm confident Holgate will get a ban because no action was taken on the pitch. Thought the ref was extremely poor from what little I've seen.

I understand a good bit of Portuguese myself and don't think Firminho said anything untoward. Not a lip reader though

agreed.
should have been a yellow.
for both players, after the reaction from Firmino.

the referee also made a howler for the penalty (every BBC pundit agreed it wasn't a peno)

Osmosis Jones

nice_guy80 wrote: »

agreed.
should have been a yellow.
for both players, after the reaction from Firmino.

the referee also made a howler for the penalty (every BBC pundit agreed it wasn't a peno)

Telling someone to fcuk off after being thrown into a crowd doesn't warrant the same punishment as throwing someone into a crowd in the first place.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Deleted User wrote: »

Dear God.

Is that irony or you genuinely not realise that the term "half caste" is derogatory and pejorative?

Only saw that now. Not an acceptable term at all.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Telling someone to fcuk off after being thrown into a crowd doesn't warrant the same punishment as throwing someone into a crowd in the first place.

Absolutely. You could see Kenny shout "F*** off" to the ref in the second half. Toffees expecting him to be banned as well?

irishman86

Deleted User wrote: »

Dear God.

Is that irony or you genuinely not realise that the term "half caste" is derogatory and pejorative?

I have never heard it used as derogatory
As i have many friends in france of this origin they readily use it to describe there ancestral background
Would you prefer i used mixed-race

nice_guy80

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Telling someone to fcuk off after being thrown into a crowd doesn't warrant the same punishment as throwing someone into a crowd in the first place.

he ran up to him and shouted at him
in refereeing the player who reacts always gets punished too