Israel will imprison migrants if they dont leave

Barry Badrinath

Am I Pyscho? wrote: »

Any links to back that up?

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/country.php?id=122

Heres data on Syrian refugees in Lebanon. Its from Nov 2017, the UNHCR says there are less than 1M REGISTERED refugees.

In reality, its hitting close to 2.3M in Lebanon.

Gatling

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/country.php?id=122

Heres data on Syrian refugees in Lebanon. Its from Nov 2017, the UNHCR says there are less than 1M REGISTERED refugees.

In reality, its hitting close to 2.3M in Lebanon.

Based off what exactly ,

Actually problems might actually get worse now Isis has declared war on hamas

Barry Badrinath

Am I Pyscho? wrote: »

Thanks. Proves that real Syrians were not seeking refuge in Europe.

Yes they were.

Do some research on the Western and Central Mediterranean migration routes.

There are clear statistics of refugees, including country of origin and intended destination.

The large numbers of Syrian refugees in countries with a shared border does not mean Syrians were not seeking refuge in Europe.

end of the road

Dr Brown wrote: »

Sounds like a common sense policy to me.

Perhaps Ireland could do the same in relation to our own illegal immigrants.

ireland deports illegal immigrants by the bucket load.

Barry Badrinath

Gatling wrote: »

Based off what exactly ,

Actually problems might actually get worse now Isis has declared war on hamas

Based off all the irregular official and "unofficial" Syrian refugee camps all over Lebanon.

Collie D

maryishere wrote: »

Migration of muslims from Muslim Middle Eastern countries is much higher than Migration of muslims to Muslim Middle Eastern countries.

What's that got to do with Israel though? The article is about African migrants. Now there is no breakdown of religion given but the continent as a whole has a pretty even split of Muslims and Christians.

I doubt Israel would be the first port of call for migrants from the Middle East to be honest.

maryishere

Collie D wrote: »

I doubt Israel would be the first port of call for migrants from the Middle East to be honest.

Non Muslim countries ( Europe, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel ) are the countries which Muslims would most like to migrate to if they could. Once there, they want to make them Muslim countries.

Collie D

maryishere wrote: »

Non Muslim countries ( Europe, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel ) are the countries which Muslims would most like to migrate to if they could. Once there, they want to make them Muslim countries.

Not even going into that but what does that have to do with the OP?

maryishere

Collie D wrote: »

Not even going into that but what does that have to do with the OP?

Was replying to your comment "I doubt Israel would be the first port of call for migrants from the Middle East to be honest."

wakka12

maryishere wrote: »

Non Muslim countries ( Europe, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel ) are the countries which Muslims would most like to migrate to if they could. Once there, they want to make them Muslim countries.

The vast majority of muslims who immigrate abroad go to muslim countries. The vast majority of muslim refugees also go to muslim countries. Maybe they'd go to european countries if they could. But the majority do not go to western countries

Collie D

maryishere wrote: »

Was replying to your comment "I doubt Israel would be the first port of call for migrants from the Middle East to be honest."

And I was replying to yours that managed to shoehorn Middle East Muslim immigration into a thread about African immigrants in Israel.

maryishere

wakka12 wrote: »

The vast majority of muslims who immigrate abroad go to muslim countries.

Because Muslim countries are closer and because they cannot get in to "western" countries easily.

maryishere

maryishere wrote: »

Because Muslim countries are closer and because they cannot get in to "western" countries easily.

Nor is there likely the same expenditure by the country to support and provide for the migrants (whatever classification they might fall under), nor the belief that they should stay as long as they like. I suspect these other countries are much more forceful with the terms of accepting them in...

Odhinn

maryishere wrote: »

Migration of muslims from Muslim Middle Eastern countries is much higher than Migration of muslims to Muslim Middle Eastern countries.

The whole of Europe hasn't taken in as much as Lebanon. Try again.

Rubberchikken

Totally agree. Their country their rules. We're way too soft.

end of the road

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Totally agree. Their country their rules. We're way too soft.

we aren't to soft at all. their country their rules is for democratic modernised countries who will impose rules that are fair to all. israel doesn't fit that description

Billy86

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think I've heard a reference to "the Jew" since Borat!

Have you been hacked or just forgotten what a chunk of AH posters are like?

Billy86

Collie D wrote: »

What's that got to do with Israel though? The article is about African migrants. Now there is no breakdown of religion given but the continent as a whole has a pretty even split of Muslims and Christians.

Not sure if you're familiar with after hours where could randomly type 'Muslims' in a Late Late Toy Show thread, and the same old horde would come running, eagerly frothing at the mouth. To be honest, I'm startled it took so long this time... we made it through the OP and 34 full replies!

moneymad

Sin City wrote: »

A case of history repeating itself ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42541515

I fully agree with what they are doing. Israel for the jews. Fair play to them.

Doesn't every country arrest/detain/deport illegal immigrants?

The key word being "illegal". Democracies and dictatorships alike, the only variable being the resources they put into doing so.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

we aren't to soft at all. their country their rules is for democratic modernised countries who will impose rules that are fair to all. israel doesn't fit that description

Really? I suspect that's more your interpretation of what a democracy is that the literal meaning... Israel just doesn't fit your skewed image. Whereas it does fit mine. It seeks to protect the rights of its own members, above those of outsiders.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? I suspect that's more your interpretation of what a democracy is that the literal meaning... Israel just doesn't fit your skewed image. Whereas it does fit mine. It seeks to protect the rights of its own members, above those of outsiders.

no no . it only seeks to protect the rights of some of it's members. those who are of the right varient of jew.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

no no . it only seeks to protect the rights of some of it's members. those who are of the right varient of jew.

Nope. Actually, the Jewish state does recognize others (non-jews) who have become residents/members of their country and protected (or bound) under their laws.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? I suspect that's more your interpretation of what a democracy is that the literal meaning... Israel just doesn't fit your skewed image. Whereas it does fit mine. It seeks to protect the rights of its own members, above those of outsiders.

It has millions of palestinians governed under martial law while settlers across the road enjoy the full protections of civil law, and a vote. Thats not a democracy.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

It has millions of palestinians governed under martial law while settlers across the road enjoy the full protections of civil law, and a vote. Thats not a democracy.

Sure, it is. It's a democratically governed country with voting rights for its own 'citizens'/residents and the will to protect the rights of its 'people'.

You don't like the way the government behaves. Fine. But your dislike about their behavior does not stop it from being a democratic country. Political constructs do not depend on morality.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, it is. It's a democratically governed country with voting rights for its own 'citizens'/residents and the will to protect the rights of its 'people'.

You don't like the way the government behaves. Fine. But your dislike about their behavior does not stop it from being a democratic country. Political constructs do not depend on morality.

Sorry, but that's a nonsense. The area controlled by Israel contains millions who do not get a vote, do not have the protection of israeli law yet whose lives are ruled by Israel, directly and indirectly. As a result, it can't be called a democracy in the commonly understood modern sense of the word, any more than apartheid south africa could.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

Sorry, but that's a nonsense. The area controlled by Israel contains millions who do not get a vote, do not have the protection of israeli law yet whose lives are ruled by Israel, directly and indirectly. As a result, it can't be called a democracy in the commonly understood modern sense of the word, any more than apartheid south africa could.

Nope. Your perception is judging the political structure of Israel, and what consists a democracy. But your perception and morality don't matter. Israel is a democratic nation for the purpose of its citizens with all the legal requirements needed to be a democracy.

Now. Enough of this. Look up a dictionary or check the legal requirements for a democracy to exist. Your moral judgment won't be included in it.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

Sorry, but that's a nonsense. The area controlled by Israel contains millions who do not get a vote

Who elected Hamas and the Palestinian Authority?

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Who elected Hamas and the Palestinian Authority?

Palestinians elected both, but as the real ruler of the territories is Israel, thats irrelevant.

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. Your perception is judging the political structure of Israel, and what consists a democracy. But your perception and morality don't matter. Israel is a democratic nation for the purpose of its citizens with all the legal requirements needed to be a democracy.

Now. Enough of this. Look up a dictionary or check the legal requirements for a democracy to exist. Your moral judgment won't be included in it.

israel isn't a democratic nation. it's an apartheid, racist, sectarian nation. no perception is judging anything, just cold hard facts.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

Palestinians elected both, but as the real ruler of the territories is Israel, thats irrelevant.

So do they get a vote or not? Or did Hamas put a stop to it by any chance?

Uboat

Send them home without money!

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

israel isn't a democratic nation. it's an apartheid, racist, sectarian nation. no perception is judging anything, just cold hard facts.

Your conception of fact is rather subjective.

Care to provide links to reputable evidence to prove that Israel is not a legally defined democratic nation? :rolleyes:

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Your conception of fact is rather subjective.

Care to provide links to reputable evidence to prove that Israel is not a legally defined democratic nation? :rolleyes:

One cannot rule millions in a brutal fashion and lay claim to that title, any more than apartheid south africa could.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/01/opinion/israels-charade-of-democracy.html
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/israel-palestine-democracy-apartheid-discrimination-settler-colonialism
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israel-is-supposedly-the-only-democracy-in-the-middle-east-yet-45-million-palestinians-under-its-10113950.html

markodaly

end of the road wrote: »

israel isn't a democratic nation. it's an apartheid, racist, sectarian nation. no perception is judging anything, just cold hard facts.

I guess the Knesset is a figment of my imagination.

Odhinn

markodaly wrote: »

I guess the Knesset is a figment of my imagination.

Do they allow the near on five million palestinians they rule a vote in the knesset elections?

markodaly

Israel comes 29th in the world according to the Democracy Index. That is higher then the Czech Republic, Poland and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Turkey comes in 97th
Palestine comes 110th

The rest of the Middle East well down that list.

Israel may a lot of this but its still a democracy albeit flawed.

Odhinn

markodaly wrote: »

Israel comes 29th in the world according to the Democracy Index. That is higher then the Czech Republic, Poland and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Turkey comes in 97th
Palestine comes 110th

The rest of the Middle East well down that list.

Israel may a lot of this but its still a democracy albeit flawed.

Which is bizarre, tbh.

end of the road

markodaly wrote: »

I guess the Knesset is a figment of my imagination.

only those of the "right stock" are allowed to vote in it.

markodaly wrote: »

Israel comes 29th in the world according to the Democracy Index. That is higher then the Czech Republic, Poland and Belgium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Turkey comes in 97th
Palestine comes 110th

The rest of the Middle East well down that list.

Israel may a lot of this but its still a democracy albeit flawed.

i believe apartheid south africa was quite high up on that list back in the day also. just like the fact it wasn't a democracy, israel isn't a democracy unless you are of the right criteria.

markodaly

Well thats what happened when you are presented with facts you don't believe.

markodaly

end of the road wrote: »

only those of the "right stock" are allowed to vote in it.

You mean only Jews are allowed to vote?

i believe apartheid south africa was quite high up on that list back in the day also. just like the fact it wasn't a democracy, israel isn't a democracy unless you are of the right criteria.

[

You would be wrong.

Odhinn

markodaly wrote: »

You mean only Jews are allowed to vote?

Specifically Israeli citizens. However nearly 5 million Palestinians are effectively ruled by Israel and get no vote.

markodaly

Odhinn wrote: »

Specifically Israeli citizens. However nearly 5 million Palestinians are effectively ruled by Israel and get no vote.

Oh I know that. Israeli citizens vote in their national elections just like Irish citizens vote in their national elections. I just think EOTR thinks that only Jews are allowed to vote, when in fact any Israeli citizen, Jew, Muslim, Arab or Christian is allowed to vote.

Palestinians vote in their own elections, well in the West Bank anyway. Those in Gaza are not so lucky.

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

However nearly 5 million Palestinians are effectively ruled by Israel and get no vote.

So they were better off being illegally occupied by Jordan until 1967 then were they? :rolleyes:

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

Palestinians vote in their own elections, well in the West Bank anyway. Those in Gaza are not so lucky.

Mod note: Quit that rubbish now.

Buford T. Justice

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

One cannot rule millions in a brutal fashion and lay claim to that title, any more than apartheid south africa could.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/01/opinion/israels-charade-of-democracy.html
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/israel-palestine-democracy-apartheid-discrimination-settler-colonialism
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israel-is-supposedly-the-only-democracy-in-the-middle-east-yet-45-million-palestinians-under-its-10113950.html

Opinion pieces that just reinforce that Israel is a Democracy but a "bad" democracy.

end of the road wrote: »

only those of the "right stock" are allowed to vote in it.

i believe apartheid south africa was quite high up on that list back in the day also. just like the fact it wasn't a democracy, israel isn't a democracy unless you are of the right criteria.

But it is a democratic system for those who are, and it seeks to protect its citizens.

But basically, Israel is not a democracy because it doesn't pass your criteria. Poland is notoriously right-winged and anti-migrant. Are they also not a democracy?

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

<snip>/QUOTE]

Hamas of course.

Grayson

Israel does have a lot of problems. It's a democracy but hardly a liberal one.

Take their marriage laws for example. Since the founding of the state it's effectively illegal to get married outside of your religion. You can go abroad , and about 1 in 10 do, but inside Israel you can't.

Grayson

It's also worth mentioning that Israel also secretly gave birth control to black Jews who migrated there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseknutsen/2013/01/28/israel-foribly-injected-african-immigrant-women-with-birth-control/#6754077067b8

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

markodaly

Grayson wrote: »

It's also worth mentioning that Israel also secretly gave birth control to black Jews who migrated there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseknutsen/2013/01/28/israel-foribly-injected-african-immigrant-women-with-birth-control/#6754077067b8

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html

All states have a past. Sweden, the benchmark for many when it comes to liberal democracies forcibly sterilised some of its citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilisation_in_Sweden

According to the 2000 governmental report, 21,000 were estimated to have been forcibly sterilised, 6,000 were coerced into a "voluntary" sterilisation while the nature of a further 4,000 cases could not be determined.[5]

We in Ireland have a dark past as well when it comes to treating illegitimate children, unmarried mothers and the mentally disabled.