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Smart Lights vs Smart Switches
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Not sure of many intro decks on the topic, planning to start my own journey through IOT here soon. The big things to think about for me are all about thinking beyond the buzz and hypeThis is great. Thanks all! I'm just diving into this IOT properly now at realising it's not as straight forward as I thought. Recommend any good threads/articles that would educate me on the really basic stuff so I can make better choices regarding hubs etc? I'm working my way through the stickies at the moment but if you think of any other essential reading for a complete novice I'd appreciate it!
Thanks again.
Big Thing #1: Security V convenience
IOT promises everything to just work and be so convenient. For example, it is convenient to be able to switch the alarm on and off with your voice. It is incredibly insecure to be able to switch the alarm off with your voice. If something goes wrong her it could be serious.
Big Thing #2:Ecosystem V API
Every company and it's dog is trying to setup it's own IOT ecosystem and selling you on the benefits of integration. This is a double edged sword. As an example, say you have a good z-wave/wifi hub and you buy gear from Company A only to later find out that you are tied to Company A's cloud services. What happens if the internet is down? or worse what happens if Company A stops their cloud service? This to me is the biggest risk tech companies fold regularly, be careful tying yourself to a new company offering to do everything.
Big Thing #3: Automation V distraction
IOT promises to automate your life away, what it doesn't say is the hours of planning and effort it takes to do this. The hours of figuring out how to integrate alexa/google home with smartthings .... It also gives you great use cases that on the surface that seem fantastic. My favourite is the new smart doorbells that always show a video of a delivery to your door and you getting a call to let you know. With Amazon Key you go even further but note that on sale Amazon key did not integrate with alarms!
Big Thing #4: Cost of true convenience
These things take someones time, the only way you can build a secure, integrated, automated distraction free system is if you spend time. Either your time or a knowledgable installer. If you're looking at doing this yourself (which I am doing and am enjoying so don't get me wrong no doom and gloom here) expect it to be a long journey.
Some examples:
Deliveries to your door. Personally I would not want them to leave the package outside (as is often shown in the videos). Ok so I would want them to leave it inside the door. Easy, put a camera inside the door so that I can unlock the door remotely, tell them to leave it inside and monitor them. Sweet! Now think through the complexity of that. Smart doorbell, smart lock, smart alarm, smart camera needed. They all need to integrate and you need to switch between the doorbell cam and the internal cam after you unlock the door. So you're back to Big Thing 1 and 2.
Internal motion detection cameras. I have motion detection cameras at my parents home point at front/back doors. They are a dream for notifying me when there is motion and at the doors when they are at home or away from home. Except now I have a new problem, was that notification I just received at 4pm a problem or normal? Was someone expected at that time? I'd better quickly check the video to be safe. Back to Big Thing #3
A fun example:
I put a sensor on my door, a presence sensor on my phone, a presence sensor on my other halves keys and now if someone opens the front door when we are away the internal lights go red and the sound system plays a custom sound. (Practically I get notified
)
So my advice is take your time, start small and don't believe advertisers hype. This tech is very new, tease out what your use cases are and tease out explicitly what your use cases aren't, look up in google "cool things you can do with X". Where possible test out the tech, find people who have it go and try it out go to stores. Then throw them up what you're thinking here or other places for people to offer advice and experience, I've found this board to be my best resource for reading so far.0 -
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Hi all,
I have read through the thread, A bit confused by it all.
I am buying a new build house and the 1st fix is already done, so standard switches are being lined up for the second fix - That's not going to change unfortunately.
As far as I know - each switch does not have a neutral at the moment.
I have two plans in mind.
1. Put Philips hue everywhere and use the dimmer switches combined with 3d printed wall plates ==> https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Twin-Light-Switch-Cover-Plate-White-for-Philips-Hue-Dimmer-Switch-3D-printed/142735621455?hash=item213bb4bd4f:g:VswAAOSwWY5ajxPh
This is the simplest solution and if I ever sell the place, I can take the philips hue setup with me entirely.
Option 2 is:
- After handover of the house, get the electrician to retro fit neutral to all of the switches (He seems to think this should be possible - by cutting a few floorboards)
- Install Sonoff switches - or other suggestions welcome. I was advised to research broadlink, but I'm not sure about them..
I was thinking of trying out a prototype with the electrician by buying a 3 gang Sonoff : https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07B8MGYYG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A26QA7NDH2SGKH&psc=1
and a Sonoff WiFi Wireless Smart Switch Module
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Sonoff-Wireless-Modified-Low-cost-Compatible/dp/B06WWNBD3Y/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1523795631&sr=8-4&keywords=sonoff+switch+module
My question is, do I need a wireless switch module for every Sonoff Switch, or worse again for every gang within that switch (ie a 3 gang switch would require 3 sonoff wireless modules ? )
It's a pity Sonoff can't do dimming.
My ultimate goal is to be able to turn on/off all of the house lights via Google Home. I would like to avoid a situation where a hard power off of a switch is possible so Google is unable to control the light.
The philips hue option allows this, but the Sonoffs look much nicer on the wall.
Thanks in advance 0 -
Hi all,
I have read through the thread, A bit confused by it all.
I am buying a new build house and the 1st fix is already done, so standard switches are being lined up for the second fix - That's not going to change unfortunately.
As far as I know - each switch does not have a neutral at the moment.
I have two plans in mind.
1. Put Philips hue everywhere and use the dimmer switches combined with 3d printed wall plates ==> https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Twin-Light-Switch-Cover-Plate-White-for-Philips-Hue-Dimmer-Switch-3D-printed/142735621455?hash=item213bb4bd4f:g:VswAAOSwWY5ajxPh
This is the simplest solution and if I ever sell the place, I can take the philips hue setup with me entirely.
Option 2 is:
- After handover of the house, get the electrician to retro fit neutral to all of the switches (He seems to think this should be possible - by cutting a few floorboards)
- Install Sonoff switches - or other suggestions welcome. I was advised to research broadlink, but I'm not sure about them..
I was thinking of trying out a prototype with the electrician by buying a 3 gang Sonoff : https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07B8MGYYG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A26QA7NDH2SGKH&psc=1
and a Sonoff WiFi Wireless Smart Switch Module
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Sonoff-Wireless-Modified-Low-cost-Compatible/dp/B06WWNBD3Y/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1523795631&sr=8-4&keywords=sonoff+switch+module
My question is, do I need a wireless switch module for every Sonoff Switch, or worse again for every gang within that switch (ie a 3 gang switch would require 3 sonoff wireless modules ? )
It's a pity Sonoff can't do dimming.
My ultimate goal is to be able to turn on/off all of the house lights via Google Home. I would like to avoid a situation where a hard power off of a switch is possible so Google is unable to control the light.
The philips hue option allows this, but the Sonoffs look much nicer on the wall.
Thanks in advance
Technically and practically I think a solution that does not use hue as your room switched lights is a better option, because:-
A) Messing with wall switches, even the 3d printed solution you gave (which is a good solution for hue I think) is not ideal. My aim would be to have the house operating and looking as near to normal as possible.
cost. Price out the cost of all the 3d printed wall plates, all the hue bulbs you need and see how it looks.
With hue, you do get the nice light tones etc, bit you could look at doing something like that using hue lights in lamps for lighting effect.
If you are talking about getting an electrician to wire neutrals to the wall switch, then you have more options, not just sonoff, but you could look at fibaro in line modules which fit behind the lightswitch as well. Doing it this way, you have the option of using whatever type of lightswitch style you want, and you are less restricted as well, always able to go for different manufacturer in line modules etc.
That depends a bit on how much room you have behind your light switch and how many circuits for each switch etc as well.
If you are getting your electrician to wire a neutral to each wall switch, then it might be worth considering getting him to run a cat 5 to the wall switch as well, bit that's a whole.other discussion for another thread I think.0 -
I'm just wondering would you not be worried that sonoff dissappear and there cloud service goes away with it, rendering the switches useless unless you set up your own home cloud? (I can only imagine the conversation I'd have with herself trying to explain that..)wexfordman2 wrote: »Technically and practically I think a solution that does not use hue as your room switched lights is a better option, because:-
A) Messing with wall switches, even the 3d printed solution you gave (which is a good solution for hue I think) is not ideal. My aim would be to have the house operating and looking as near to normal as possible. cost. Price out the cost of all the 3d printed wall plates, all the hue bulbs you need and see how it looks.
With hue, you do get the nice light tones etc, bit you could look at doing something like that using hue lights in lamps for lighting effect.
If you are talking about getting an electrician to wire neutrals to the wall switch, then you have more options, not just sonoff, but you could look at fibaro in line modules which fit behind the lightswitch as well. Doing it this way, you have the option of using whatever type of lightswitch style you want, and you are less restricted as well, always able to go for different manufacturer in line modules etc.
That depends a bit on how much room you have behind your light switch and how many circuits for each switch etc as well.
If you are getting your electrician to wire a neutral to each wall switch, then it might be worth considering getting him to run a cat 5 to the wall switch as well, bit that's a whole.other discussion for another thread I think.0 -
I'm just wondering would you not be worried that sonoff dissappear and there cloud service goes away with it, rendering the switches useless unless you set up your own home cloud? (I can only imagine the conversation I'd have with herself trying to explain that..)
Hi,
I don't have any sonoff gear, but yes, I think one if the most important things is that your system should continue to work if you lose your broadband or wifi, and thats a drawback with sonoff wall switches. Partly why I was suggesting looking at some of the inline modules that fit behind the wall switch, these can work as normal if you lose all connectivity.
I don't have a wireless system, mine is a hardwired system that will work as normal if you unlug or disconnect all the smarts.
It is also done in a way that even the manufacturer goes bust, the system can be easily replaced as the wiring schematic is common across a number of smart home manufacturer's use (although that would be something I hope never to have to do).
End of the day, in an ideal scenario, the system should
A) be discreet, ie, not noticably different to look at and use to a bog standard dumb house. Be capable of running as normal in the event of loss of connectivity and not dependent on a single point of failure which renders the system unusable. There should be no scenario where no matter what happens I simply can't turn a light on or off at the wall switch.
C) should be replaceable, ie, if I need to go for another vendor or technology, it should not require a house rewire.
Again, my system is a hardwired one, and systems like that need to be planned prior to first fix stage, but I have think in line modules like fibaro etc will or could deliver near enough functionality.
PS:- I have hue as well, but just for lamps.0 -
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Thanks for the quick reply - I will speak to the foreman to see if he'll allow me to get the neutral in - The electrician is on for it and so am I. It's just whether the foreman allows us to lift a few floorboards to wire down the neutral.
Thanks - i may have more questions soon 0 -
Thanks for the quick reply - I will speak to the foreman to see if he'll allow me to get the neutral in - The electrician is on for it and so am I. It's just whether the foreman allows us to lift a few floorboards to wire down the neutral.
Thanks - i may have more questions soon
No bother, just note, I havnt used any of those particular in line modules, but I used to have very similar ones before using older x10 automation system, the principle is the same, just a different protocol.
Worth talking to vesternet as well re a controller, there are options here as well, but I would prob look to connect them to a smart things hub to give you google home or Alexa control0 -
Just had a browse on verternet.com - so many options out there for home automation!
So with a neutral to the light switches - I can retrofit whatever smart light switch I choose.
That's my short term goal today anyway - I just want the option of upgrading to proper smart switches down the line without tearing down the house :P
I could be asking you questions all day I'd say 0 -
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Hi,
Yes these work without wifi - which is why I like them.
I'll have Google wifi dotted around the house which has both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.
I'm not sure what I require exists at the moment
Hi,
I would check and see if they are 1 way or 2 way, i.e:-
1 WAY
A) You send a command to turn them on or off, and the command is just sent with no acknowledgemnt of success/completion of the action You turn the light on/off manually, they do not update the hub that they are now on/off
2 WAY
A) You send a command to turn them on/off, and the command is sent, actioned and the status of the light is updated to your system/hub You turn the light on/off manually and they update the light status to your system/hub.
With a mixture of different techs, such as your other devices, and these wifi, can you integrate them easily into a single hub.
And more of a long term thing, that might not be relevent, wifi evolves, so if/when your devices become legacy wifi, you will need to ensure a backwards compatible router is kept. Again, this is less of an issue I think, but worth keeping in mind.0 -
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