Kids refusing to go to school

Stuckforcash

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Good lad, get outraged. That's not what he said.

He said bullying is a fact of life (which it is). Totally insulating kids from it by keeping them away from school will mean they are totally unequipped to deal with it as adults.

He's implying that being bullied hardens up kids to potential bullying in adulthood.

You said the exact same thing then.

You're saying childhood bullying better equips you to deal with it as an adult. Where's the evidence for this?

HONKEY TONK

Stuckforcash wrote: »

Suicide is massive problem in Ireland . Unless you believe childhood has no bearing on your mental health as an adult?

What type of Anxiety is suffered from going to school?

suicide_circus

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Ironically anxiety is made worse by avoidance. Good luck with the rest of their lives.

Sure adult life is easy. All unpleasant activities and events can be avoided and it's basically just years and years of easy stress free comfort zoning

Kermit.de.frog

Stuckforcash wrote: »

Suicide is massive problem in Ireland . Unless you believe childhood has no bearing on your mental health as an adult?

Maybe kids should be left to be what they are, kids??

Go to school, go to college, go to work.

Seems like the best plan.

QueenMTBee

Chrongen wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Slightly off topic but I couldn't help commenting:-

While I appreciate that one person isn't indicative of a whole - I was home schooled (because my parents had religious "notions"). I wouldn't say that my social skills are stunted in any way but one longer term consequence that I have discovered is that I don't have that really wide circle of friends/acquaintances as I'm getting older. At events/xmas/weddings everybody has this extended circle with common experiences/memories. I have genuinely found this to be an issue for me. If kids are going to be home schooled then they should be members of a club/team of some kind.

On topic - effectively isolating a child because people/school makes them anxious isn't going to help them in the long run.

The Backwards Man

Bring back fields full of stones, you'll have no problem getting wains to go to school then.

Stuckforcash

Stuckforcash wrote: »

Suicide is massive problem in Ireland . Unless you believe childhood has no bearing on your mental health as an adult?

I am perfectly aware that suicide is a problem, and it can be caused by so many factors, psychiatric conditions, bullying, marriage breakdown, financial worries. I'm asking how high up that list of factors is attending school.

Could you quote any psychiatrist that says taking children out of school is the cure for mental illness or will address suicide?

listermint

QueenMTBee wrote: »

Slightly off topic but I couldn't help commenting:-

While I appreciate that one person isn't indicative of a whole - I was home schooled (because my parents had religious "notions"). I wouldn't say that my social skills are stunted in any way but one longer term consequence that I have discovered is that I don't have that really wide circle of friends/acquaintances as I'm getting older. At events/xmas/weddings everybody has this extended circle with common experiences/memories. I have genuinely found this to be an issue for me. If kids are going to be home schooled then they should be members of a club/team of some kind.

On topic - effectively isolating a child because people/school makes them anxious isn't going to help them in the long run.

You would expect parents that make that decision to tell you no different. But alas i guess they dont really care where you get your friends from as long as they vet them first. Play dates etc.

Stuckforcash

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Maybe kids should be left to be what they are, kids??

Go to school, go to college, go to work.

Seems like the best plan.

So what? Don't address anxiety in kids?

ohnonotgmail

Stuckforcash wrote: »

So what? Don't address anxiety in kiss?

address the causes of the anxiety. removing them from school doesnt do that.

mariaalice

Stuckforcash wrote: »

So what? Don't address anxiety in kiss?

Of course the anxiety has to be addresses, but it should be made clear that while they will be given all the support they need they still have to go to school.

Kermit.de.frog

Stuckforcash wrote: »

So what? Don't address anxiety in kiss?

Isolating them from their peers is the single worst thing that can be done in my opinion.

How is making them a loner, an outcast at that age with few friends going to help them?

Social skills, the ability to deal with distress, the ability to handle bullying - all these things develop in part through childhood.

Being over protective and dumping them in to the real world at 18 is not going to be good for them in my opinion.

nagdefy

MagicIRL wrote: »

Yeah, normally whats said is "Boy, 15, found hanging from tree".

No-body goes through life being OK all the time. Feeling up and down is what life is all about. People deal with it different ways and talking about it is the first step towards fixing it.

Kids committing suicide today really is incomprehensible to me.

25 years ago it was never mentioned among my school peers and i only heard of one in my local town. We all got bullied but learning to deal with it as part of life. I was kicked around in Boarding School, cried plenty each night but the mentality of our time was keep going, things will get better. And they did. Also serious psychological bullying and being thrown into urinals going for a pee. Clothes burnt with lighters etc.

listermint

People need 'tools' to handle anxiety.

Removing them from the source does not give some the tools to deal with anxiety and it never will.


A more rounded individual will be able to understand and identify anxiety when it is coming or when it is present. That in itself allows the individual to say 'oh look here comes symptoms of anxiety' and then they can get additional tools to deal with handling it.


again removing them from the source is not helpful.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Isolating them from their peers is the single worst thing that can be done in my opinion.

How is making them a loner, an outcast at that age with few friends going to help them?

Social skills, the ability to deal with distress, the ability to handle bullying - all these things develop in part through childhood.

Being over protective and dumping them in to the real world at 18 is not going to be good for them in my opinion.

I agree. You can't shelter your children from real life for ever. Obviously you shouldn't look the other way if they're being bullied, or leave them to cope on their own. But simply pulling them out of all formal schooling and letting them hang around at home and telling the school they're sick is just avoiding facing up to the problem, and not addressing it in a way that will allow your child to deal with the world of work when that time comes.

wakka12

Miranda Teeny Wine wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/schoolflakes-the-children-not-going-to-school-because-they-don-t-like-it-1.3340555


Interesting article here. I have sympathy for any child who genuinely dreads going to school, but just letting them stay at home isn't doing them any favours in the long term. The day will come when they have a job they hate, or a boss they can't stand, or a colleague they don't get on with, but they'll still need to pay the bills.

I think its very different. I sometimes absolutely dreaded school , you feel so completely trapped as a child in a school you hate. Job is very different, Ive worked multiple jobs. Theres a lot more avenues to make it more comfortable for you, working different hours if its parttime, you could ask to be moved from certain area of offices, much easier to deal with problems like bullying in an adult environment than a childresn one(IME)

wakka12

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Ironically anxiety is made worse by avoidance. Good luck with the rest of their lives.

I struggled with anxiety throughout large parts of my life. Im fine now, and I don't agree with your idea. Complete avoidance is bad but forcing a child into something that makes them very anxious is extremely counter productive and traumatising and much worse than avoidance in my experience. Slow gentle exposure is by far the best route

I had bad social anxiety is secondary school as I found the environment horrible, it daily made my anxiety worse. But college was a good example of gentle slow exposure, in college you could avoid many kinds of social interaction you weren't comfortable with, and just be part of the ones you like. eventually you mature and get more used to it all. It took a long time for me to become socially normal in college though due to such poor experiences from secondary school. So I think that shows in my case at least that avoidance isn't totally bad, and forcing kids into anxious situations is definitely really bad.

suicide_circus

wakka12 wrote: »

I think its very different. I sometimes absolutely dreaded school , you feel so completely trapped as a child in a school you hate. Job is very different, Ive worked multiple jobs. Theres a lot more avenues to make it more comfortable for you, working different hours if its parttime, you could ask to be moved from certain area of offices, much easier to deal with problems like bullying in an adult environment than a childresn one(IME)

This is all true but without wanting to be too harsh, tough shyte. Kids need to learn to cope with stuff they don't want to do. It's called growing up. Bubble wrapping children is counter productive.

andekwarhola

Reading this thread is making me enter a phantom state whereby I hear the Glenroe theme, I've got a new haircut that makes my ears look like the FA Cup and I'm trying to remember if finished my Irish homework.

Stuckforcash

suicide_circus wrote: »

This is all true but without wanting to be too harsh, tough shyte. Kids need to learn to cope with stuff they don't want to do. It's called growing up. Bubble wrapping children is counter productive.

It's kids not being able to cope which causes anxiety. Some people can't simply learn to cope.

Homeschooling doesn't equate to being a hermit either.

Buford T. Justice XIX

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Bring back fields full of stones, you'll have no problem getting wains to go to school then.

True that. Which brings up the question of what chores kids are expected to do. In farming families it's expected, to a large degree for kids to help out but I've been very surprised to learn of kids who are friends of my kids who aren't even expected to remove their plates from the table, never mind put them in the dishwasher.

It's not a difficult chore to learn to clean up after yourself, even small things like collecting their dirty clothes for washing or bringing them in from the line seem to be beyond the abilities of some kids.

Our second lad had severe anxiety about starting secondary school and had it for months but he was directed towards help and it really had a brilliant effect on him. He's a different child now he has some of the tools needed to deal with stress.

But there is a huge stigma about mental health in Ireland and seeking help for it as well so I think many of those kids could cope just fine with some support services where needed. It seems a more obvious solution than ignoring the problem.

LirW

Genuine question to homeschoolers: How do you teach kids something that's beyond your skills, yet they'll need it later on? Thinking of maths, science and the like.

Boom_Bap

suicide_circus wrote: »

This is all true but without wanting to be too harsh, tough shyte. Kids need to learn to cope with stuff they don't want to do. It's called growing up. Bubble wrapping children is counter productive.

We are in a time where we can be more analytical, be more sensitive and have more facilities to help children cope.
It's not as easy as letting them learn to cope. They need to be taught how to cope as the world is a much different place to what it was 10 years ago.
Bubble wrapping is not the correct approach, but working on the issue is.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus. When I hear people going on about kids, anxiety, therapists, the stress of school, you just wonder how they will get through life. Think social media and the whole "it's okay to not be okay" has really popularised anxiety. Lot to be said for the shoe up the arse and told to get out the door.

Unfortunately there are times when introducing the shoe to the arse doesn’t work. My nephew started having difficulties aged ten. Luckily his GP was sympathetic. Told his parents to take him out of school immediately. This they did at Easter. Got him enrolled in another smaller school for September and he’s never looked back.

It’s easy to pour scorn on mental health issues. Until it hits your own, you’ll never know the heartache it can cause.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Stuckforcash wrote: »

It's kids not being able to cope which causes anxiety. Some people can't simply learn to cope.

Homeschooling doesn't equate to being a hermit either.

I think some of the kids in the article were just being kept off school 'sick' instead of parents working with the school to help them to discover the source of their anxiety and learn to deal with it.

Lackey

wakka12 wrote: »

I think its very different. I sometimes absolutely dreaded school , you feel so completely trapped as a child in a school you hate. Job is very different, Ive worked multiple jobs. Theres a lot more avenues to make it more comfortable for you, working different hours if its parttime, you could ask to be moved from certain area of offices, much easier to deal with problems like bullying in an adult environment than a childresn one(IME)

You can only do that if u have a good education behind you, and then get a decent job that affords you these options

suicide_circus

Boom_Bap wrote: »

We are in a time where we can be more analytical, be more sensitive and have more facilities to help children cope.
It's not as easy as letting them learn to cope. They need to be taught how to cope as the world is a much different place to what it was 10 years ago.
Bubble wrapping is not the correct approach, but working on the issue is.

I'm not saying don't work on it. Definitely work on it but in the context of "this is a non negotiable part of your development -you will be educated and that may have to involve a classroom".

wakka12

suicide_circus wrote: »

This is all true but without wanting to be too harsh, tough shyte. Kids need to learn to cope with stuff they don't want to do. It's called growing up. Bubble wrapping children is counter productive.

We can do better though
Why force children into something hellish when theres ways to make it better, I know society might have gotten soft in some regards but I think this is situation where society should be. People should look back on childhood fondly, you only get it once. I think its sad that I and many others ' endured' secondary school instead of enjoying it, childhood shouldn't just be a trauma you try to force out of your memory as an adult !

Boom_Bap

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm not saying don't work on it. Definitely work on it but in the context of "this is a non negotiable part of your development -you will be educated and that may have to involve a classroom".

ok, we're on the same page
The means of kids with problems being introduced to the classroom and being able to cope there is what should be promoted.

Lau2976

nagdefy wrote: »

I was kicked around in Boarding School, cried plenty each night but the mentality of our time was keep going, things will get better. And they did. Also serious psychological bullying and being thrown into urinals going for a pee. Clothes burnt with lighters etc.

Jesus that’s horrible. I’m sorry that you went through that.

I’m not sure if I was sheltered from it or what but I can’t ever recall anything like that happening at my school.

I really sympathize with these kids, I had some pretty crappy years in school near the end because of dyslexia and my mental health, but on the other hand not going to school was never an option and now I’m glad my parents did that. An off day or two is understandable but ignoring the main issue of why they dread school that much isn’t going to help them get better.

mariaalice

wakka12 wrote: »

We can do better though
Why force children into something hellish when theres ways to make it better, I know society might have gotten soft in some regards but I think this is situation where society should be. People should look back on childhood fondly, you only get it once. I think its sad that I and many others ' endured' secondary school instead of enjoying it, childhood shouldn't just be a trauma you try to force out of your memory as an adult !

The problem with that is have you ever actuley met anyone who was happy as a teenager and its not just school. The big issue with secondary school is the dawning realisation of their place in the social and academic pecking order, sport is a good antidote to this and from my experience the scouts is as well as it is a different outlet, my youngest is still friends as an adult with people she first met in the scouts.

danganabu

Owta Control wrote: »

To be fair... going to school in Tipperary would make me anxious and unhappy too..

You should embrace your inferiority rather than hide from it

QueenMTBee

LirW wrote: »

Genuine question to homeschoolers: How do you teach kids something that's beyond your skills, yet they'll need it later on? Thinking of maths, science and the like.

From a strictly educational point of view, my homeschooling was great until I reached the point where my knowledge equalled what my parents could teach me or what they could learn to keep ahead of me. I was ahead of most children my age by around 14 and considered anything below 85% in an exam as complete failure! I excelled at the subjects they were good at teaching (maths - my mother had originally been a bookkeeper/accountant) and I struggled terribly with the subjects they weren't so good at teaching (think physics & chemistry). I did have a few grinds teachers after I turned 15 but, if I'm honest, it went downhill quite rapidly after my Junior Cert exam

spurious

QueenMTBee wrote: »

From a strictly educational point of view, my homeschooling was great until I reached the point where my knowledge equalled what my parents could teach me or what they could learn to keep ahead of me. I was ahead of most children my age by around 14 and considered anything below 85% in an exam as complete failure! I excelled at the subjects they were good at teaching (maths - my mother had originally been a bookkeeper/accountant) and I struggled terribly with the subjects they weren't so good at teaching (think physics & chemistry). I did have a few grinds teachers after I turned 15 but, if I'm honest, it went downhill quite rapidly after my Junior Cert exam

Did your parents have any particular reason for not sending you to school, even after JC?

nice_guy80

since when do kids get to choose everything or voice their opinion on things?
ffs parents treating them like they are best friends!

retalivity

How many of the kids claiming 'anxiety' are just lazy sh1tes and being indulged? I know a few people whose kids have gluten intolerances, asthma, adhd, ptsd, the Spanish flu, leprosy, the works. According to them anyway...

wakka12

retalivity wrote: »

How many of the kids claiming 'anxiety' are just lazy sh1tes and being indulged? I know a few people whose kids have gluten intolerances, asthma, adhd, ptsd, the Spanish flu, leprosy, the works. According to them anyway...

I would say extremely few honestly

Stuckforcash

nice_guy80 wrote: »

since when do kids get to choose everything or voice their opinion on things?
ffs parents treating them like they are best friends!

I would like to be my kids best friend if they showed signs of anxiety or stress because of school. I would aslo encourage them to express their feelings and voice their opinions as it isn't the 1950's anymore.

Peatys

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

How many kids are you home schooling?

splinter65

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Are there any studies into how home schooled kids do later on in a work environment ?

QueenMTBee

spurious wrote: »

Did your parents have any particular reason for not sending you to school, even after JC?

Religious reasons (it's complicated and I don't want to post too much on an open forum). They do since regret it - particularly as my two youngest brothers did finish their schooling in a "normal" school and now have really great careers. I'm not being "poor me" - I've worked my way up the ladder, have a couple of diplomas and have a decent job and lifestyle but definitely would have been capable for a lot more with a better/more advanced education.

Malayalam

Chrongen wrote: »

"Home-schooling" fcuks kids up. They don't develop social skills properly

That's a fecking lie. I home schooled all my kids and they are flipping awesome, got highest level results in their Universities and are better socialised and more decent than anyone I've met. Feck off. :mad:

Malayalam

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Any 'home-schooled' kids I've met have all been... odd... to put it mildly.

The majority were very sheepish and timid. Ocassionally they would be the archetypical spoiled child type with severe social retardation and very poor ability to read social situations.

Bull****.

QueenMTBee

Just to clarify - I'm not knocking home schooling (although I wouldn't be in favour of it). I'm saying that from my experience of being home schooled and having the benefit of several (ahem) years to assess the longer term results, (a) parents need to be very sure that when it gets to a certain level they bring in outside help and encourage college/university and (b) the children should be involved in some kind of a team or club to help broaden their extended social circle and teach them to interact with the mean kids as much as the nice kids.

hawkelady

Malayalam wrote: »

Chrongen wrote: »

"Home-schooling" fcuks kids up. They don't develop social skills properly

That's a fecking lie. I home schooled all my kids and they are flipping awesome, got highest level results in their Universities and are better socialised and more decent than anyone I've met. Feck off. :mad:

Ohhh la-di-da. Isn't mumsy the best!!!!

With your attitude I've no doubt you think your offspring are "the best".

In reality I'd hazard a guess they are complete knobends

listermint

Malayalam wrote: »

That's a fecking lie. I home schooled all my kids and they are flipping awesome, got highest level results in their Universities and are better socialised and more decent than anyone I've met. Feck off. :mad:

Lol

splinter65

grahambo wrote: »

I work in IT as team lead.
Genuinely, IT is having MAJOR issues with grads and young people starting work in our sector. Not so much me, but my colleagues/contacts that are taking them on in their teams.

These young people are just out of college and it's very apparent from the very beginning of working with them that:
(A) They've never been told NO.
(B) They've never been told they did a sh*tty/sloppy job at something.

They've basically been mollycoddled their whole lives and now can't cope with "The Real World"

It's fu*king ridiculous so it is.

I’m a parent and I’m holding up my hands here, I’m guilty and I’m sorry and I’m trying to fix it now but it’s not easy.

Malayalam

hawkelady wrote: »

Ohhh la-di-da. Isn't mumsy the best!!!!

With your attitude I've no doubt you think your offspring are "the best".

In reality I'd hazard a guess they are complete knobends

You're the knob end. I was responding to an person who ignorantly said that home schooling fcuks kids up. It most certainly does not.

And I am not going to feel bad for thinking my children are flipping awesome. they are! Just like everyone hopefully thinks their kids are awesome

Stuckforcash

hawkelady wrote: »

Ohhh la-di-da. Isn't mumsy the best!!!!

With your attitude I've no doubt you think your offspring are "the best".

In reality I'd hazard a guess they are complete knobends

Whereas your parents obviously did a fine job.

Peatys

Malayalam wrote: »

You're the knob end. I was responding to an person who ignorantly said that home schooling fcuks kids up. It most certainly does not.

And I am not going to feel bad for thinking my children are flipping awesome. they are! Just like everyone hopefully thinks their kids are awesome

How many kids did you home school?