Landlord insisting I give 112 days notice

dave_t

I am relocating and starting a new job in February but my current landlord is insisting that I give the full 112 days notice required for a tenant of 8+ years but I obviously don't want to pay for 3 additional months when I'm not going to be there and will need to pay rent where I'm moving to.

I'm currently in Dublin also so it's not like the landlord will have any trouble replacing me. I feel the landlord is being very unreasonable in this situation.

What are my options here? If I refuse to pay rent after a certain point what would happen?

RunRoryRun

Talk to him - AFAIK if he successfully lets the place within the notice period you only pay til that date.

Be proactive and have a conversation which will result in neither of you being out of pocket.

By rights, you are liable for the full notice period. Rules are there to protect both you and the landlord. If the shoe was on the other foot and he wanted to turf you out in 30 days, you could insist on 112 days. Fairs-fair that it works both ways.

Any reasonable landlord will be open to a solution on this.

dave_t

RunRoryRun wrote: »

Talk to him - AFAIK if he successfully lets the place within the notice period you only pay til that date.

Be proactive and have a conversation which will result in neither of you being out of pocket.

By rights, you are liable for the full notice period. Rules are there to protect both you and the landlord. If the shoe was on the other foot and he wanted to turf you out in 30 days, you could insist on 112 days. Fairs-fair that it works both ways.

Any reasonable landlord will be open to a solution on this.

Thanks for the response. The problem seems to be that they are unreasonable. I don't actually deal with a landlord directly. I deal with a letting agency. I have tried to discuss it and come to some sort of agreement but the landlord isn't budging.

I understand why these rules are in place and may be more sympathetic if I thought they would have trouble replacing me but in this current climate they won't.

amcalester

Whereabouts in Dublin are you and what is the property, 1 bed, 2 bed etc?

You could ask to assign the lease, if they refuse you can end the lease early. Not sure of the notice period in such a case but it is shorter.

Graham

amcalester wrote: »

You could ask to assign the lease, if they refuse you can end the lease early. Not sure of the notice period in such a case but it is shorter.

There's no mention of a lease/fixed term tenancy. Perhaps the OP can confirm.

amcalester

Graham wrote: »

There's no mention of a lease/fixed term tenancy. Perhaps the OP can confirm.

Does it have to be a signed lease? I'd always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that a Part 4 lease could be assigned as well as a signed fixed term lease.

Graham

amcalester wrote: »

Does it have to be a signed lease? I'd always assumed (perhaps wrongly) that a Part 4 lease could be assigned as well as a signed fixed term lease.

Part 4 tenancy isn't a lease. You can have a Part 4 tenancy without having a lease/fixed term.

I don't think reassignment is an option without a fixed term tenancy/lease, can't find any reference to it anyway.

dave_t

Yes, it's a Part 4 tenancy not fixed lease and from what I've read it must be a fixed lease to be relet.

Eric Cartman

the same rules that stop your landlord booting you out after 30 days apply here. Why anyone thinks that the prtb notice periods are one sided is beyond me.

if he gets a new tenant in that time you'll be off the hook but be prepared to possibly pay 112 days rent.

Graham

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if he gets a new tenant in that time you'll be off the hook but be prepared to possibly pay 112 days rent.

doesn't the landlord have a duty to mitigate his losses under such circumstance and by extension limit the expense imposed on the outgoing tenant.

If the landlord gets a new tenant in 10 days, I would expect the RTB to side with the previous tenant and find any deductions should be limited to any damage deductions, 10 days rent, advertising etc.

Browney7

Don't think assigning works - would think this doesn't affect the statutory notice period.

OP, are you relocating abroad? Do you plan on renting in Ireland again and require a reference? Have you taken the piss and sat on a job offer for a while or have you been upfront? Is it a REIT you are negotiating with or a private landlord via an agent? It's fair that there is a longer notice period for longer tenancies - more wear and tear that needs replacing, more major maintenance that needs scheduling etc.

Have you said you will facilitate all viewings? Does the LL propose to re let the property do you know? If he's selling up anyways there's more incentive to hold you to the notice period. LL might be annoyed they never raised rents and aren't getting what other places are and so are dragging their feet on you leaving.

Shame that after years of hassle free renting it's getting difficult now.

Browney7

Graham wrote: »

doesn't the landlord have a duty to mitigate his losses under such circumstance and by extension limit the expense imposed on the outgoing tenant.

If the landlord gets a new tenant in 10 days, I would expect the RTB to side with the previous tenant and find any deductions should be limited to any damage deductions, 10 days rent, advertising etc.

I recall reading on here before a post (from the LL side of things admittedly) that there is no compulsion on a LL to mitigate losses as it's a statutory notice period in the RTA. No idea if there have been determinations/rulings to this effect though.

Cuddlesworth

Graham wrote: »

doesn't the landlord have a duty to mitigate his losses under such circumstance and by extension limit the expense imposed on the outgoing tenant.

If the landlord gets a new tenant in 10 days, I would expect the RTB to side with the previous tenant and find any deductions should be limited to any damage deductions, 10 days rent, advertising etc.

Landlord would have to pay for advertising regardless, so I would guess not.

The_Conductor

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Landlord would have to pay for advertising regardless, so I would guess not.

Tenant is liable for any costs incurred in reletting the property- if they do not give appropriate notice- however, their exposure to rent is only up until the date the landlord starts to get paid by an incoming tenant.

The notice period in the Residential Tenancies Act- is there to protect both tenants and landlords- and equally, applies to each (in the absence of more favourable terms in a fixed lease- which the landlord may decide to grant a tenant- in the absence of a fixed term lease- the rules governing a Part IV tenancy apply.

dave_t

Browney7 wrote: »

Don't think assigning works - would think this doesn't affect the statutory notice period.

OP, are you relocating abroad? Do you plan on renting in Ireland again and require a reference? Have you taken the piss and sat on a job offer for a while or have you been upfront? Is it a REIT you are negotiating with or a private landlord via an agent? It's fair that there is a longer notice period for longer tenancies - more wear and tear that needs replacing, more major maintenance that needs scheduling etc.

Have you said you will facilitate all viewings? Does the LL propose to re let the property do you know? If he's selling up anyways there's more incentive to hold you to the notice period. LL might be annoyed they never raised rents and aren't getting what other places are and so are dragging their feet on you leaving.

Shame that after years of hassle free renting it's getting difficult now.

I'm only relocating within Ireland but it's not a commutable distance. I was only offered the job last week and gave a month's notice to my current job. It is a private landlord via an agent.

The impression I got was that they have no interest in letting out again until I'm gone. It is definitely a shame. I know they would almost instantly get a tenant as there is high demand. I hope they begin to meet in the middle because the simple fact is, I cannot afford to pay 2 rents and don't want to leave on a bad note.

Paz-CCFC

It may be unreasonable in today's climate, but he's under no obligation to accept lower notice than the statutory minimum. However, you're under no obligation to accommodate him regarding viewings of the property for the tenants that will replace you or access to the premises for any other reason, except for those stated in the Residential Tenancies Act (eg, inspections at reasonable intervals with advance notice).

It doesn't really make sense from his point of view, because you could come to an agreement where the tenancy ends at an earlier date and you help him out by allowing viewings in the property, which gives him a chance of organising a replacement that moves in as soon yours ends, minimising the loss of rent between tenancies. If he doesn't co-operate with you and you don't with him, he would have to wait until the day after your last day to start viewings, allow for time to vet tenants, get agreements sorted etc., losing out on the rent for the days the house is vacant and having the extra pressure of getting it done timely.

Your best is to get the written notice of termination in ASAP. There are sample notices on the RTB's website. That'll at least get the clock started, so you'll know for sure the latest date you'll have to start paying rent until. Then you can try to negotiate with the landlord for an earlier exit date, with you helping him out with viewings etc.. Hopefully he'll see that it would suit both of you. If he doesn't, don't feel under any pressure to allow viewings, because until the notice period ends and as long as you're paying rent, it's still your home and you're entitled to peaceful and exclusive occupation.

Graham wrote: »

Part 4 tenancy isn't a lease. You can have a Part 4 tenancy without having a lease/fixed term.

I don't think reassignment is an option without a fixed term tenancy/lease, can't find any reference to it anyway.

Even if it were, it'd make no difference, because a landlord can refuse an assignment, which allows the tenant to terminate a lease with the same notice period that would apply as if there were no reason. As a basic Part 4, that's something the OP can do anyway. It doesn't allow you to terminate with immediate effect.

Browney7 wrote: »

I recall reading on here before a post (from the LL side of things admittedly) that there is no compulsion on a LL to mitigate losses as it's a statutory notice period in the RTA. No idea if there have been determinations/rulings to this effect though.

A party to a tenancy is indeed expected to attempt to mitigate his or her loss. See here where the landlord's continued failure to mitigate resulted in the award being reduced significantly.

the_syco

Have you asked if you can sublet the place?

TheChizler

No mention of a lease being required to assign here: https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/what-is-assignment-

Makes sense, you're still bound by the conditions of the original lease when it expires (specific tenants, rules on pets, smoking, etc.) so why wouldn't your rights follow you into the expired lease part of the tenancy?

Fian

TheChizler wrote: »

No mention of a lease being required to assign here: https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/what-is-assignment-

Makes sense, you're still bound by the conditions of the original lease when it expires (specific tenants, rules on pets, smoking, etc.) so why wouldn't your rights follow you into the expired lease part of the tenancy?

Exactly. This area of the law is completely weighted in favour of tenants, who can walk away from a lease without notice period but cannot be evicted until the full notice period on the other side has been served. That is assuming they don't overhold after that.

Tell your landlord you wish to re-assign your tenancy. Ask for his consent. Tell him you will find another tenant to take it up under your current terms and conditions. Tell him that if he refuses to consent you are entitled to terminate lease without the notice period.

If you are in Dublin it should be no problem to assign. If you are in a remote rural area on the other hand you are liable for the full notice period if replacement tenant cannot be found.

Browney7

Fian wrote: »

Exactly. This area of the law is completely weighted in favour of tenants, who can walk away from a lease without notice period but cannot be evicted until the full notice period on the other side has been served. That is assuming they don't overhold after that.

Tell your landlord you wish to re-assign your tenancy. Ask for his consent. Tell him you will find another tenant to take it up under your current terms and conditions. Tell him that if he refuses to consent you are entitled to terminate lease without the notice period.

If you are in Dublin it should be no problem to assign. If you are in a remote rural area on the other hand you are liable for the full notice period if replacement tenant cannot be found.

Always thought if LL refused assignment of a fixed term lease the notice period clock started to tick. In this case the OP still has to give the same notice of the 100 odd days.

Graham

TheChizler wrote: »

Makes sense, you're still bound by the conditions of the original lease when it expires (specific tenants, rules on pets, smoking, etc.) so why wouldn't your rights follow you into the expired lease part of the tenancy?

I suspect that's not an automatic thing.

I vaguely recall several leases containing a clause along the lines of the general terms and conditions of the original lease still apply at the end of the lease if the tenancy converts to a periodic tenancy.

The_Conductor

Graham wrote: »

I suspect that's not an automatic thing.

I vaguely recall several leases containing a clause along the lines of the general terms and conditions of the original lease still apply at the end of the lease if the tenancy converts to a periodic tenancy.

Depends entirely on what is in the original lease (and this is why its a good idea to copy and paste directly from the SI/Reg and not deviate from it).

davo10

Fian wrote: »

Exactly. This area of the law is completely weighted in favour of tenants, who can walk away from a lease without notice period but cannot be evicted until the full notice period on the other side has been served. That is assuming they don't overhold after that.

Tell your landlord you wish to re-assign your tenancy. Ask for his consent. Tell him you will find another tenant to take it up under your current terms and conditions. Tell him that if he refuses to consent you are entitled to terminate lease without the notice period.

If you are in Dublin it should be no problem to assign. If you are in a remote rural area on the other hand you are liable for the full notice period if replacement tenant cannot be found.

But if the tenant has given notice and this has been accepted, the assigned lease would only be for the duration of the notice, what right minded tenant is going to give a deposit and pay rent for a month or two when the tenancy ends?