Advice on flight training

amacca

Hi,

I have been thinking about getting at least a private pilots license for a long time now and dipping into and out of related forums and I was wondering if I could get some advice/maybe confirmation on the below sequence of events as being the most sensible if I was thinking of going down this path.

1) Get class 1 medical (I know or I think I know that a class 2 is only required for a PPL but if I was to pursue it further a class 1 is required)

presumably this is the first step as there is no point going any further if any medical reasons make me physically unfit?

2) Do the GAPAN test to see if I have the aptitude to be a commercial pilot..

independent so no reason for them to sugar coat it if in fact it would be a struggle for me to be an effective commercial pilot?


3) Undertake PPL to see if I would enjoy it as much as I think and pursue from there?

If I did go further I'd be very much a modular candidate...I have a job and run a business and I'm not particularly willing to nor can I live the life of a student again (in earnings terms although I'm quite flexible other ways)......I am willing to undertake the training funding it from what I can save from earnings over a 2 to 3 maybe 4 year period.

So does the above sequence of events seem like the best way to go about it?

Some other questions I'm interested in getting some info on is the initial ppl stage........

is it acceptable to or advisable to go to the states to get the initial ppl? - more chance of consistent weather, less cost etc or is much of a muchness if accommodation etc is taken into account?...

also can a ppl earned in the states be converted and recognised over here and will a flight school allow you go to the next stage after ppl in their modular programme? ie: you could enrol on the modular programme with a recognised ppl and just pay for the modules afterwards (I presume this is ok?)

Thank you in advance for any and all info - positives/negatives/encouragement/criticism etc etc - I'm aware there is a hell of a lot I don't know.

Dingle_berry

Yes do medical first. Though remember that it's the aeromedical examiners interpretation of the part med, another examiner in a different jurisdiction might have a slightly different interpretation.

Do a trial flying lesson too. You may love being a passenger, knowing that someone else has the controls. No point in logging a few hours, getting to solo and not being happy to go solo.

Plenty of people get European licences and ratings out of the US. It's just more red tape than doing it in Europe. Or people get the licences here and hour build out there.

Each licence and rating is an add on, they build on each other. They don't all have to come from the same school so if you think a school was ripping you off by not crediting you for your PPL go to a different school, there are plenty!

martinsvi

amacca you got everything pretty much right in terms of sequence of things.. I personally didn't take any aptitude tests, although I know they are recommended, but don't know anyone who's actually done them.

as for the states bit - you can go and get the EASA (European) licence in states - it will cost you roughly the same as here in EU. Or.. if you are happy that you are going after the CPL, you can get the FAA (US) PPL and finish the hour building there, come over and begin your CPL (EASA) studies here on the bases on you FAA licence. That should work out a tad bit cheaper. Any ICAO licence will do in fact, I know a guy who did his PPL + hours in South Africa and finished in Spain. He has the same licence as I do now for a half of the price.
the only pitfall is that if after PPL you decide not to continue to CPL, then you end up with a licence that needs to be converted (Some exceptions to FAA licences do apply, that allow them to be used in Ireland for now, but we don't know how long that will last)

amacca

Replies much appreciated Guys thank you for taking the time.

So I have a bit of thinking to do when it comes to getting the PPL...probably best to contact flight schools for info.

If I could trouble people with a couple more questions......although the license you get at the end is the same, are some flight schools a safer bet than others?

What I mean is do they all have to be accredited to offer training or is there an insurance scheme they participate in that protects student funds should the school go out of business/cease trading...what sort of questions should I be asking or info should I be finding out to ensure they are up to a certain standard...or is it case of look for well established ones, then research the schools like this you are interested in/talk to previous students if you can get a hold of some/look at as much feedback as possible before making the choice? Are there any well known trusted schools in the states?

And finally am I allowed mention specific flight schools in Ireland and ask for peoples opinions if they would be good choice? I can understand if thats a potential can of worms tbh...maybe a pm if someone would be ok with that?

SRFC90

Without wanting to hijack the thread from amacca I've a few questions of my own I'm hoping some of you guys flying on here could answer. I'm currently well into the research phase of beginning my training.

Mid to late 20's, have an Aviation related degree, got the Class 1 medical sorted a month or so ago, done a few intro lessons and loved it, through my job I managed to jumpseat around a few European destinations and love it more! Currently working for an airline at DUB in a non flying role. Came close in a few cadetship attempts but want to get the ball rolling now. Planning on starting an Integrated course mid to late 2018.

Would you guys recommend going down the route of taking a loan to pay for the majority of the training or advise against it? I've met with my bank a few times and they seem open to the idea, currently thrashing out various terms with them (guarantor, repayment holiday until I finish my training etc.)

Any words of advice?

Dingle_berry

amacca wrote: »

Replies much appreciated Guys thank you for taking the time.

So I have a bit of thinking to do when it comes to getting the PPL...probably best to contact flight schools for info.

If I could trouble people with a couple more questions......although the license you get at the end is the same, are some flight schools a safer bet than others?

What I mean is do they all have to be accredited to offer training or is there an insurance scheme they participate in that protects student funds should the school go out of business/cease trading...what sort of questions should I be asking or info should I be finding out to ensure they are up to a certain standard...or is it case of look for well established ones, then research the schools like this you are interested in/talk to previous students if you can get a hold of some/look at as much feedback as possible before making the choice? Are there any well known trusted schools in the states?

And finally am I allowed mention specific flight schools in Ireland and ask for peoples opinions if they would be good choice? I can understand if thats a potential can of worms tbh...maybe a pm if someone would be ok with that?

Any school would have to be an approved/registered training organisation. They will all have to have courses that meet or exceed standards.
I've never heard of a school that garuntees your fees. There are plenty of warnings around about not paying everything up front, no matter the discount... a school will make money off students. The more students the "safer". Too many students and training slows down due to aircraft and instructor availablilty.
I would look at average length of training and longest v shortest too.

SRCF90 will you have access to an extra bit of money should your qualifications be delayed? (Repeat flight tests, extra lessons in circuit before solo, etc etc) How will you keep licences & ratings current while searching for work?

martinsvi

amacca as Dingle_berry said all schools have to be registered and approved. You can check the relevant authorities web site (in Ireland that would be IAA) or school should be able to show you their ATO certification. Generally you don't pay large deposits/installments if you're doing a modular route - it's pretty much pay as you go so if the school should go under, you're not out of pocket. A school might offer you to buy bulk hours with a discount. Use your own judgement whether to do so or not, generally the advice is not to..

I don't know a generally bad school in Ireland, they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Feel free to ask about specific schools but remember, there are not that many pilots here in general and out of those, very few have actual experience with more than one or two schools. So whether the "opinion" you will get here is positive or negative, always take it with a pinch of salt.

SRFC90 I don't see the fascination with integrated programmes unless it's one of those airline tagged/backed ones. Stay in your work, go modular and try to remain debt free would be my first intuition. However there's no right or wrong. With the way current job market is I can also understand the desire to get it done quickly just to get your foot in the door before the gravy train departs.. and it will at some point, we all know it

1123heavy

If you are going integrated then I heavily advise you to not do so unless on an airline tagged programme. Whitetail untagged is just not worth the risk. Going modular you can keep your current job for the period when you finish training and are searching for a flying job (this can take years) and will need an income to survive. Giving up your current job and putting all your eggs into the integrated basket, and having a massive loan to repay too upon graduation with no flying job providing any income ... that's not a situation I'd advise you to get yourself into, and going integrated untagged it's the situation you will almost definitely find yourself in.

Job wise, the industry at the moment is good, but of course it's cyclical and so it's anyone's guess as to when we have that downslope again. Even with the current state being good, that doesn't change the fact that any jobs post training are highly sought after and competition is fierce. I have a friend who went for a job with blue air, he got to the 'final' stage where there were 60 guys left, and they were picking 4. Similar numbers are to be found among most other airlines who hire fresh graduates. There are literally thousands upon thousands of low hour license holders across Europe fighting for their first break, and this is while the industry is in the best state its been for a long time. Ryanair are of course a big hirer.

amacca

Once again thank you for the replies, its been very helpful. I have a bit more of an idea what the best course of action for me might be.

Another one (probably not the final one) could one do the theory exams over here in Ireland and do all the hours over in the states to get the ppl I wonder?

I'm imagining quite a slog doing one hour flying a weekend or having dead weeks with no flight lessons due to weather issues here, and then the airplane overbooked when a fine spell comes along...I can manoeuvre a block of time relatively free in late summer so I thought it might be possible to get the ppl over in the US within 6/7 weeks and although it might not be much of a saving money wise it could be a more efficient use of the time?

I'm based in the midlands so the irish school that caught my attention was NFC at Weston. In fairness they have a decent amount of detail and a breakdown of costs for the ppl ...although it is over 45 hrs and I have my doubts with weather etc I would get the ppl with just the minimum 45 hrs given the gaps between the lessons enforced by weather etc.

In any event...medical first, ill update this thread with my progress assuming I make some:D....it might be helpful.

Dingle_berry

amacca wrote: »

Another one (probably not the final one) could one do the theory exams over here in Ireland and do all the hours over in the states to get the ppl I wonder?

I'm imagining quite a slog doing one hour flying a weekend or having dead weeks with no flight lessons due to weather issues here, and then the airplane overbooked when a fine spell comes along...I can manoeuvre a block of time relatively free in late summer so I thought it might be possible to get the ppl over in the US within 6/7 weeks and although it might not be much of a saving money wise it could be a more efficient use of the time?

AFAIK your instructor, exams and flight test all have to be with the same regulatory body. So to do exams here and flying there you would need to sit FAA PPL exams here or IAA PPL instructor and flight tester there.
Same goes for medical, e.g. if you get a CAA medical but do IAA lessons & test you must convert your medical to IAA.

Weather is mostly chance. You're correct that you've a better chance of VFR weather in Florida or Arizona, even Spain. But you don't have to have empty blue skies and still air for VFR either. The irish flight schools wouldn't be able to compete if their students took double the time to progress.
From what I gather initial flight training (PPL, ME, IR) is fairly different to commercial transport flying. Your PPL is like learning to drive a car. Being a commercial transport pilot is like being a manager and driving an F1 car! It's very much systems and team management, less about making coordinated turns and nice square circuits!

martinsvi

Dingle_berry wrote: »

AFAIK your instructor, exams and flight test all have to be with the same regulatory body. So to do exams here and flying there you would need to sit FAA PPL exams here or IAA PPL instructor and flight tester there.
Same goes for medical, e.g. if you get a CAA medical but do IAA lessons & test you must convert your medical to IAA.

Technically you are right, but just to add to it - if you study in US under EASA syllabus, the school probably has an EASA authorized examiner there. This means you can finish your theory here in Ireland, go over to the states do your flying there, let IAA know that you will take your skills test in the US, they will point out what forms need to be filled out by the examiner, bring them back to Ireland and they will issue you your PPL. As long as the instructor/examiner are EASA licensed/authorized, they don't have to represent IAA. This will not work if the school works under FAA or any other system

Dingle_berry wrote: »

From what I gather initial flight training (PPL, ME, IR) is fairly different to commercial transport flying. Your PPL is like learning to drive a car. Being a commercial transport pilot is like being a manager and driving an F1 car! It's very much systems and team management, less about making coordinated turns and nice square circuits!

well yes, but the CPL training is pretty much making your turns more coordinated and circuits more square.. you don't get to system/team management until you begin your MCC/JOC

smurfjed

Is KOC still running NFC? 
Its over 30 years since he sent me solo