Kia Niro EV

eagerv

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I need to figure out what you guys are doing, I'm getting quoted 516 from Aviva for a 2016 Nissan Leaf. For the laugh I put in for a quote on an ID.3 max and it was €100 cheaper

I swear they just pick these numbers out of a hat

Absolutely, important to tell them they are chancers :P even if the quote isn't too bad..

sk8board

eagerv wrote: »

What ever initial quote you get, it's well worth while querying it..


Got my annual renewal email last week from Aviva which was €320 for my VW. Almost paid it on the spot as was a little cheaper than last year. However called them up and asked what was the best they could do. After confirming we had the house and a second EV with them they quoted me €280 (Which they claim is their minimum car insurance price).
2 cars taxed and insured now for just over €800, happy enough with that.

Multiple policies is huge for discounts these days. My fiancé and I have 7 policies now with RSA and are paying FAR less on all 7 than ever before, many on minimum policy amounts as you mentioned too.
It just means Im on the phone with them every 7 weeks. They usually call me a day or two before renewal these days.

xboxdad

Renewed at end of Sept and spent a lot of time to gather tons of quotes.
Nothing below 650 EUR. Middle aged lady driver in Bonus 10, Dublin.
Maybe ppl with those great prices are not in Dublin?

the_amazing_raisin

xboxdad wrote: »

Renewed at end of Sept and spent a lot of time to gather tons of quotes.
Nothing below 650 EUR. Middle aged lady driver in Bonus 10, Dublin.
Maybe ppl with those great prices are not in Dublin?

Where's Bonus 10? Maybe they gave you a high quote because you made up a town

I'm in Swords, which I think is still considered Dublin despite all the tractors I keep getting stuck behind

championc

There's an insurance company in Limerick specializing in EV - evinsurance.ie

I got a good price from them and am sorry I didn't switch, for all the hassle I had with my current crowd

xboxdad

championc wrote: »

There's an insurance company in Limerick specializing in EV - evinsurance.ie

I got a good price from them and am sorry I didn't switch, for all the hassle I had with my current crowd

They said they'll get back to me with quotes - waiting for that since the 11th of September.

darrenheaphy

xboxdad wrote: »

They said they'll get back to me with quotes - waiting for that since the 11th of September.

I completed their form too - it's frustrating to complete a multi page form and then get a "We'll be in touch" response. Aviva was the same, in their case it must be because it's electric. Annoying though, it means having to be socialable and make a phone call

I watched a video of Bjorn testing winter range in the e-niro, some serious coldgate issues, granted that was -15 - 25 deg C but the battery was cold 10 degrees or less which is more than possible in Ireland to get the battery this low and lower.

Bjorn was surprised that it was around 27% ( if I remember correctly ) less efficient than the model 3, I know it's a larger car and he is aware but the difference in heater consumption was a lot.

xboxdad

darrenheaphy wrote: »

I completed their form too - it's frustrating to complete a multi page form and then get a "We'll be in touch" response. Aviva was the same, in their case it must be because it's electric. Annoying though, it means having to be socialable and make a phone call

Not only that. They got back to me with follow up questions via email. I answered, then they said they'll submit the info to the insurers and will get back to me.

xboxdad

Deleted User wrote: »

I watched a video of Bjorn testing winter range in the e-niro, some serious coldgate issues, granted that was -15 - 25 deg C but the battery was cold 10 degrees or less which is more than possible in Ireland to get the battery this low and lower.

Bjorn was surprised that it was around 27% ( if I remember correctly ) less efficient than the model 3, I know it's a larger car and he is aware but the difference in heater consumption was a lot.

Since Irish cars don't have a heat pump, I'm wondering if that 4.x kW consumption he recorded would have been even higher with our cars. It's a good thing we don't have -20'C here

graememk

xboxdad wrote: »

Since Irish cars don't have a heat pump, I'm wondering if that 4.x kW consumption he recorded would have been even higher with our cars. It's a good thing we don't have -20'C here

I'd say at them temperatures it doesn't really matter!

But the insulation he puts on the windows would effect it a lot.(reduce heat loss) esp when camping

xboxdad

xboxdad wrote: »

Since Irish cars don't have a heat pump, I'm wondering if that 4.x kW consumption he recorded would have been even higher with our cars. It's a good thing we don't have -20'C here

It will hit 4 Kw at times I'm sure as it needs to boost heat but one thing I noticed about some electrics I drove is that they don't maintain heat at 21-22 deg, they cool off a lot then need more power to heat up again.

In the i3 if I don't have the heat set to 23 Deg C it gets too cold most of the time because setting the heat to 22 deg doesn't feel like 22 deg.

The coldgate when charging is more than possible in Ireland though. Bjorn's video shows the battery heater not doing a whole lot and it didn't then seem to transfer heat to the heating when it warmed up either.

When you need heating and battery to charge up the fastest is in Winter and most electrics just don't cut it in the cold and are very, very far from the convenience of ICE, I can imagine the faces on many People unaware of coldgating as the ETA on charging is +20 mins or more when the battery is cold.

Bjorn even showed the Model 3 Coldgating even with the battery set to preheat before reaching the charger and it seems to be worse with single motor M3s because it's the motor that heats the battery by running it inefficiently, one of the issues with the M3 is that it seems to need 50 odd Deg C for decent charging currents which could indicate really high internal resistance.

The updated M3 is suffering serious power loss in cold weather too, but this might be corrected with a software update.

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

I watched a video of Bjorn testing winter range in the e-niro, some serious coldgate issues, granted that was -15 - 25 deg C but the battery was cold 10 degrees or less which is more than possible in Ireland to get the battery this low and lower.

Bjorn was surprised that it was around 27% ( if I remember correctly ) less efficient than the model 3, I know it's a larger car and he is aware but the difference in heater consumption was a lot.

I saw the first half of that video and it did seem to be coldgating pretty badly at the start, didn't see the first charging stop but it wasn't at full speed there either as I recall



I remember watching a previous video Bjorn did with the E-Niro and it seems to have some issues with the battery heater not switching on or being too weak to overcome the freezing Norwegian winters. That would probably be the cause of a lot of the coldgating issues


He did also mention in that video the car had been sitting idle for a while and the battery was really cold at the start, that's probably why he was charging so slowly at the beginning of that video

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I saw the first half of that video and it did seem to be coldgating pretty badly at the start, didn't see the first charging stop but it wasn't at full speed there either as I recall



I remember watching a previous video Bjorn did with the E-Niro and it seems to have some issues with the battery heater not switching on or being too weak to overcome the freezing Norwegian winters. That would probably be the cause of a lot of the coldgating issues


He did also mention in that video the car had been sitting idle for a while and the battery was really cold at the start, that's probably why he was charging so slowly at the beginning of that video

I don't think it should have had any difficulty heating up from 10 Deg C because at one point he got to the charger but the battery was at 10 deg C, it shouldn't have had any difficulty getting to 20 odd degrees and maintaining this.

It's badly implemented software really, I doubt it's nothing that can't be fixed via software update.

There should be a manual option to pre-heat the battery on all electric cars to temp for max charging current, probably not a good idea on passively cooled batteries like in the Leaf but for instance the i3 has a really efficient directly AC cooled battery and there's no reason the driver can't control when it comes on or not, the i3 battery heater comes on only with depart timer set and pre-condition 4 hrs in advance but this isn't enough for max charging current but it is enough for max acceleration and I think it only needs to go to 22 Deg C for max charging current where the Model 3 for example needs around 50 Degrees C which leads me to wonder how this might effect the life of the battery.

Cars like the Model S/3 do heat the battery but this is the other extreme, for instance if you're just commuting and not interested in break neck acceleration heating the battery up can be a significant waste of energy.

liamog

Mod Note: Moved heat pump discussion as we've gone off topic to https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058106812&page=7

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think it should have had any difficulty heating up from 10 Deg C because at one point he got to the charger but the battery was at 10 deg C, it shouldn't have had any difficulty getting to 20 odd degrees and maintaining this.

It's badly implemented software really, I doubt it's nothing that can't be fixed via software update.

There should be a manual option to pre-heat the battery on all electric cars to temp for max charging current, probably not a good idea on passively cooled batteries like in the Leaf but for instance the i3 has a really efficient directly AC cooled battery and there's no reason the driver can't control when it comes on or not, the i3 battery heater comes on only with depart timer set and pre-condition 4 hrs in advance but this isn't enough for max charging current but it is enough for max acceleration and I think it only needs to go to 22 Deg C for max charging current where the Model 3 for example needs around 50 Degrees C which leads me to wonder how this might effect the life of the battery.

Cars like the Model S/3 do heat the battery but this is the other extreme, for instance if you're just commuting and not interested in break neck acceleration heating the battery up can be a significant waste of energy.

True, battery heating doe seem to be a bit of a mystery, it should be simple but somehow everyone manages to overcomplicate things


I'd like to hear from some of the E-Niro owners to see if they've been having issues. Of course driving enough to need a recharge, and finding a charger that can supply over 50kW is difficult in Ireland, so I expect it isn't a situation that happens a lot at the moment


In general, I think the battery heating issues for most EVs boil down to 2 problems

1. Battery heater either doesn't switch on, or doesn't stay on long enough to keep the battery at the ideal temperatures
2. Battery heating takes power away from the charging power into the battery, so you end up with slower charging

I know the ID.3 has fixed the latter in the latest software, it'll go over 100kW to keep the battery charging at full speed. Tesla have a pretty good system where it'll heat the battery while charging or if navigating to a Supercharger


I definitely agree that a simple button to preheat the battery would be nice. I'm hoping the driver is still aware enough to know where they're going and when they're charging. You could have a thermostat control so the driver can't preheat the battery if it's already warm and lock out the button if the SoC is below a certain level

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

True, battery heating doe seem to be a bit of a mystery, it should be simple but somehow everyone manages to overcomplicate things


I'd like to hear from some of the E-Niro owners to see if they've been having issues. Of course driving enough to need a recharge, and finding a charger that can supply over 50kW is difficult in Ireland, so I expect it isn't a situation that happens a lot at the moment


In general, I think the battery heating issues for most EVs boil down to 2 problems

1. Battery heater either doesn't switch on, or doesn't stay on long enough to keep the battery at the ideal temperatures
2. Battery heating takes power away from the charging power into the battery, so you end up with slower charging

I know the ID.3 has fixed the latter in the latest software, it'll go over 100kW to keep the battery charging at full speed. Tesla have a pretty good system where it'll heat the battery while charging or if navigating to a Supercharger


I definitely agree that a simple button to preheat the battery would be nice. I'm hoping the driver is still aware enough to know where they're going and when they're charging. You could have a thermostat control so the driver can't preheat the battery if it's already warm and lock out the button if the SoC is below a certain level

The E-Niro was charging around 30 Kw for Bjorn at 10 Dec C if I remember correctly so this is too slow even on 50 Kw charger which he was using at the time.

Tesla need 50 odd degrees to maintain high power but this ramps down rapidly probably due to the cooling system not being able to keep up.

I need at least 100 Kw Winter charging to convince me to change back to BEV I don't think anything less is suitable. No coldgating.

Actually I want a decent charge rate until at least 80% Kw is meaningless, it's the charge time that matters.

At the end of the day we do have a Diesel but I really don't like driving it and it guzzles Diesel and herself won't buy an EV until one can be got that's good enough at a decent price and that will take years but I really don't want to have to depend on the Outlander for long trips if I go back to BEV.

graememk

Just back from my first service, they updated something - but it's not the purple one. Going back at the end of Jan to get the button on the passenger door fixed.

75 for the service.

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

The E-Niro was charging around 30 Kw for Bjorn at 10 Dec C if I remember correctly so this is too slow even on 50 Kw charger which he was using at the time.

Tesla need 50 odd degrees to maintain high power but this ramps down rapidly probably due to the cooling system not being able to keep up.

I need at least 100 Kw Winter charging to convince me to change back to BEV I don't think anything less is suitable. No coldgating.

Actually I want a decent charge rate until at least 80% Kw is meaningless, it's the charge time that matters.

At the end of the day we do have a Diesel but I really don't like driving it and it guzzles Diesel and herself won't buy an EV until one can be got that's good enough at a decent price and that will take years but I really don't want to have to depend on the Outlander for long trips if I go back to BEV.

Well you need infrastructure to match, the ID.4 can charge at 125kW for example but most of the chargers can only go to 50kW. The motorways to and from Dublin are reasonably well served by HPCs but outside of that you're stuck with 50kW until someone comes and starts building proper hubs.

chewed

graememk wrote: »

Just back from my first service, they updated something - but it's not the purple one. Going back at the end of Jan to get the button on the passenger door fixed.

75 for the service.

€75 is not too bad! where did you get this service?

graememk

chewed wrote: »

€75 is not too bad! where did you get this service?

North Donegal

Did get a set of wipers too as there was a line on the passenger side, which cost another 35 and also 2 euro for screen wash - personally hate bad wipers so they are usually changed as soon as they look at me sideways - no second chances, and we get plenty of rain up here.

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Well you need infrastructure to match, the ID.4 can charge at 125kW for example but most of the chargers can only go to 50kW. The motorways to and from Dublin are reasonably well served by HPCs but outside of that you're stuck with 50kW until someone comes and starts building proper hubs.

Yeah but coldgate is coldgate, 100Kw charger or 50 Kw still will reduce power but 50 Kw would be better than 30 Kw but I'd really need to be guaranteed 100 Kw or more Winter or Summer but as I said, decent charge curve, simpler again 10 min charging lol.

icom

graememk wrote: »

Just back from my first service, they updated something - but it's not the purple one. Going back at the end of Jan to get the button on the passenger door fixed.

75 for the service.

Due soon myself in the same dealer, be interesting to see what he quotes me for the eNiro first service

I'll bring a screenshot !

graememk

icom wrote: »

Due soon myself in the same dealer, be interesting to see what he quotes me for the eNiro first service

I'll bring a screenshot !

didnt even bat an eyelid when i rocked up with 20k on the clock.. i dont think ive ever been in on time for a service. But with ICE cars id be keeping an eye on the usuals anyway. next service 35k! With an EV well, there aint much to check.

*its 75.99 on the itemised bill to be exact :P

Took nearly 3 hrs as they done the software update. But not the purple head unit one.

The offpeak times had been reset, but all the versions on the head unit was the same :shrug:

Redlim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah but coldgate is coldgate, 100Kw charger or 50 Kw still will reduce power but 50 Kw would be better than 30 Kw but I'd really need to be guaranteed 100 Kw or more Winter or Summer but as I said, decent charge curve, simpler again 10 min charging lol.

Not sure what your personal driving needs are but in your case do you reckon you'd need to charge a car with decent range like the e-Niro mid-trip very often? If on a long motorway trip in Ireland hopefully coldgate wouldn't be an issue with the natural heating of the battery from driving at speed.

As an aside I drove 30km in - 6C weather at the weekend and had the live consumption screen on to see if any energy was going to "battery care". Didn't notice anything being used though so it seems it has to get lower than that for it to kick in. Car had been sitting on the drive so battery temp should have been similar to outside temp.

Edited to add I renewed insurance today. €290 with Aviva which I was better than expected. We have the e-Niro, Ice car and house with them.

icom

graememk wrote: »

didnt even bat an eyelid when i rocked up with 20k on the clock.. i dont think ive ever been in on time for a service. But with ICE cars id be keeping an eye on the usuals anyway. next service 35k! With an EV well, there aint much to check.

*its 75.99 on the itemised bill to be exact :P

Took nearly 3 hrs as they done the software update. But not the purple head unit one.

The offpeak times had been reset, but all the versions on the head unit was the same :shrug:

Just 10k on my clock, being wfh since March, so just the wife going to the shops mostly, but the 12 months is up, so gonna book her in.

Updated the head unit and maps myself last year, so we'll see if any more is required.

Redlim

Redlim wrote: »

Not sure what your personal driving needs are but in your case do you reckon you'd need to charge a car with decent range like the e-Niro mid-trip very often? If on a long motorway trip in Ireland hopefully coldgate wouldn't be an issue with the natural heating of the battery from driving at speed.

As an aside I drove 30km in - 6C weather at the weekend and had the live consumption screen on to see if any energy was going to "battery care". Didn't notice anything being used though so it seems it has to get lower than that for it to kick in. Car had been sitting on the drive so battery temp should have been similar to outside temp.

Edited to add I renewed insurance today. €290 with Aviva which I was better than expected. We have the e-Niro, Ice car and house with them.

I watched a few videos from Bjorn on the E-Niro and the battery heater works sometimes but often not It's very strange, bad software perhaps but no I wouldn't need the full range often but when I do I don't want to experience what I did in Kilcullen before Christmas, waiting 20 mins then another 25 to charge, I didn't need a full charge and I only did it because I was on the phone for ages other than that I would have used the Rex, I can use the Diesel for long trips but that's a pain in the ass, shouldn't have to.

Cold gate is a real issue, even at 10 Deg C battery temp, why it won't heat the battery properly is anyone's guess but I'm sure a firmware update can fix it but perhaps they won't bother but that is a big turn off charging at 30-35 Kw at 10 deg C battery temp with a car than has the capability to heat the battery, although so does the i3 and BMW turn it off at 10 Deg C and it's purpose is only to allow max acceleration but an option to heat the battery for charging could probably be implemented by BMW too, it has an excellent cooling system if it got too hot. I really wonder why engineers do what they do.

Stefs_42

xboxdad wrote: »

Since Irish cars don't have a heat pump, I'm wondering if that 4.x kW consumption he recorded would have been even higher with our cars. It's a good thing we don't have -20'C here

hardly we will be camping overnite in our Niros like he did in those temps

Redlim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I watched a few videos from Bjorn on the E-Niro and the battery heater works sometimes but often not It's very strange, bad software perhaps but no I wouldn't need the full range often but when I do I don't want to experience what I did in Kilcullen before Christmas, waiting 20 mins then another 25 to charge, I didn't need a full charge and I only did it because I was on the phone for ages other than that I would have used the Rex, I can use the Diesel for long trips but that's a pain in the ass, shouldn't have to.

Cold gate is a real issue, even at 10 Deg C battery temp, why it won't heat the battery properly is anyone's guess but I'm sure a firmware update can fix it but perhaps they won't bother but that is a big turn off charging at 30-35 Kw at 10 deg C battery temp with a car than has the capability to heat the battery, although so does the i3 and BMW turn it off at 10 Deg C and it's purpose is only to allow max acceleration but an option to heat the battery for charging could probably be implemented by BMW too, it has an excellent cooling system if it got too hot. I really wonder why engineers do what they do.

But would you have needed to make that same stop in a longer range EV than the i3? Coldgate could certainly be an issue for some depending on their driving patterns but I'd imagine it doesn't impact most people - especially in Ireland due to its size and the mostly mild weather.

Agree though that an option to activate battery heating would be very handy for when you know that your range will easily get you to the next charger.

Redlim

Redlim wrote: »

But would you have needed to make that same stop in a longer range EV than the i3? Coldgate could certainly be an issue for some depending on their driving patterns but I'd imagine it doesn't impact most people - especially in Ireland due to its size and the mostly mild weather.

Agree though that an option to activate battery heating would be very handy for when you know that your range will easily get you to the next charger.

Yes the range would be met by E-Niro, E-soul and pretty much any 60+ Kw EV but the point is that when I need to charge, regularly or not it is a real inconvenience and having the Rex is no inconvenience at all, chargers in use is also a right pain, if and when I do change to another EV I want to be able to charge as fast as possible but as I said it's not the be all because I can take the Diesel but that means electrics + Infrastructure is still not good enough.