Kia Niro EV

unkel

KCross wrote: »

It was the best they could do with a weak govt. FF wouldnt have allowed more. Thats politics.

Agree with your points but I'm not convinced it was the best. A few more tiny measures would have really been the shot across the bow: 1 percentage point VRT increase for diesel only, 1 cent duty increase for diesel only, 1 percentage point motor tax increase for diesel only. With a warning that from next year on the same would happen (for diesel only) but it would then be a 3-5% increase and the same increase for every year after until diesels are completely banned in 2030

Now that would have got people talking - and changing attitudes double quick

kevin16w

I was just speaking with a dealer i know fairly well. There is a dealers conference tomorrow night and they expect to get more details at this on the e-Niro. He also confirmed that the car is not due in Ireland until Q2 2019 but that he expects the specs to beat Kona so would be worth waiting for. He will follow up with me next week.

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

Agree with your points but I'm not convinced it was the best. A few more tiny measures would have really been the shot across the bow: 1 percentage point VRT increase for diesel only, 1 cent duty increase for diesel only, 1 percentage point motor tax increase for diesel only. With a warning that from next year on the same would happen (for diesel only) but it would then be a 3-5% increase and the same increase for every year after until diesels are completely banned in 2030

Now that would have got people talking - and changing attitudes double quick

I found the reference. A new 30k car this "increase" will add 400 quid to it.....


https://www.independent.ie/business/budget/hiking-vrt-on-diesel-engines-makes-absolutely-no-sense-37402917.html

The prospect of having to pay an extra €400 in VRT will doubtless mean many people will stay with what they have for now - keeping more older cars on the road. But it will also mean the gap in the value of a car being traded in against a new one will be even wider.


he is having a laugh....400 quid on a 30k is a drop in the ocean....the dealer will take it out of their margin


That bit is a repeat of something SIMI mentioned

grogi

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I found the reference. A new 30k car this "increase" will add 400 quid to it.....


https://www.independent.ie/business/budget/hiking-vrt-on-diesel-engines-makes-absolutely-no-sense-37402917.html

The prospect of having to pay an extra €400 in VRT will doubtless mean many people will stay with what they have for now - keeping more older cars on the road. But it will also mean the gap in the value of a car being traded in against a new one will be even wider.


he is having a laugh....400 quid on a 30k is a drop in the ocean....the dealer will take it out of their margin


That bit is a repeat of something SIMI mentioned

This also means less and less used diesels coming to the country. And that's exactly what we want to see.

liamog

grogi wrote: »

This also means less and less used diesels coming to the country. And that's exactly what we want to see.

Should of stuck 10% on the VRT. Would of stopped new diesels and imports and made all the existing diesels more valuable. Must of been some lads in simi who've built an importing cheap diesels business model pitching against it.

Shefwedfan

liamog wrote: »

Should of stuck 10% on the VRT. Would of stopped new diesels and imports and made all the existing diesels more valuable. Must of been some lads in simi who've built an importing cheap diesels business model pitching against it.

SIMI grubby paws are all over it. 10% VRT and it would kill the UK imports business.



The SIMI director talking that it would stop people with older dirty diesel engines from trading to newer cleaner engines was a joke....

KCross

liamog wrote: »

Should of stuck 10% on the VRT. Would of stopped new diesels and imports and made all the existing diesels more valuable. Must of been some lads in simi who've built an importing cheap diesels business model pitching against it.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SIMI grubby paws are all over it. 10% VRT and it would kill the UK imports business.

The SIMI director talking that it would stop people with older dirty diesel engines from trading to newer cleaner engines was a joke....

Really? I would have thought SIMI would be all for stopping cheap UK imports... no?

Surely a higher VRT on diesel imports would allow them to keep their paddy spec prices up here as they would have less competition to deal with against better spec UK imports.

DesperateDan

kevin16w wrote: »

I was just speaking with a dealer i know fairly well. There is a dealers conference tomorrow night and they expect to get more details at this on the e-Niro. He also confirmed that the car is not due in Ireland until Q2 2019 but that he expects the specs to beat Kona so would be worth waiting for. He will follow up with me next week.

Q2 is a very long time away for me

liamog

KCross wrote: »

Really? I would have thought SIMI would be all for stopping cheap UK imports... no?

Surely a higher VRT on diesel imports would allow them to keep their paddy spec prices up here as they would have less competition to deal with against better spec UK imports.

A fair number of delears are doing the importing, diesel prices in the UK are dropping so they're bringing them into Ireland. A guy in work just bought a diesel e220, the SIMI dealer has done the leg work bringing it into Ireland.

unkel

liamog wrote: »

A guy in work just bought a diesel e220, the SIMI dealer has done the leg work bringing it into Ireland.

Just drove behind an E220 cdi. '09 so on the chape tax. The black smoke coming out of it was unreal :mad:

In any civilised country, he would be taken off the road and given a massive pollution fine.

KCross

liamog wrote: »

A fair number of delears are doing the importing, diesel prices in the UK are dropping so they're bringing them into Ireland. A guy in work just bought a diesel e220, the SIMI dealer has done the leg work bringing it into Ireland.

I know they are a large proportion of the imports but I would have thought that SIMI in general would rather that UK imports were not happening. Surely they would rather that Irish cars all filtered down through the Irish distributors which would in turn support their dealers, staff, showrooms etc.

The fact I can save a few grand by going to the UK myself means their investment in their showrooms etc is lessened.

I suppose there are independent SIMI dealers too (one or two man bands) who would have a different POV. They'd want the cheap UK imports to continue alright.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Just drove behind an E220 cdi. '09 so on the chape tax. The black smoke coming out of it was unreal :mad:

In any civilised country, he would be taken off the road and given a massive pollution fine.

Presumably it would fail the NCT so he will have to sort it soon and being almost 10yrs old he will have to do an NCT every year now! His maintenance bill could start rising if his emissions are off.

unkel

You'd be surprised how many cars drive around without NCT

Again, not really enforced...

And your car will pass the NCT even if you have blanked the EGR valve in your diesel, deleted the DPF, and what not :mad:

KCross

unkel wrote: »

You'd be surprised how many cars drive around without NCT

Again, not really enforced...

And your car will pass the NCT even if you have blanked the EGR valve in your diesel, deleted the DPF, and what not :mad:

Sounds like you know what you're doing there unkel!!!!

unkel

I've never owned a diesel and if I had, I wouldn't bring extra cancer into the world by bypassing cancerous particle reduction systems on purpose

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

You'd be surprised how many cars drive around without NCT

Again, not really enforced...

And your car will pass the NCT even if you have blanked the EGR valve in your diesel, deleted the DPF, and what not :mad:

I passed the NCT (well, a car of mine) on a diesel with a straight pipe exhaust.

A lot of these cars are squeezed through the NCT. A tip (probably frowned upon in these parts) for older diesels is to turn the pump down to the minimum so the car is running lean, and for older cars (particularly indirect injection cars) add some petrol or some kerosene to the diesel in the tank, it will lower the smoke emissions.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I passed the NCT (well, a car of mine) on a diesel with a straight pipe exhaust.

A lot of these cars are squeezed through the NCT. A tip (probably frowned upon in these parts) for older diesels is to turn the pump down to the minimum so the car is running lean, and for older cars (particularly indirect injection cars) add some petrol or some kerosene to the diesel in the tank, it will lower the smoke emissions.

w00ps
:D:D

unkel wrote: »

I've never owned a diesel and if I had, I wouldn't bring extra cancer into the world by bypassing cancerous particle reduction systems on purpose

Stefs_42

ELM327 wrote: »

unkel wrote: »

You'd be surprised how many cars drive around without NCT

Again, not really enforced...

And your car will pass the NCT even if you have blanked the EGR valve in your diesel, deleted the DPF, and what not :mad:

I passed the NCT (well, a car of mine) on a diesel with a straight pipe exhaust.

A lot of these cars are squeezed through the NCT. A tip (probably frowned upon in these parts) for older diesels is to turn the pump down to the minimum so  the car is running lean, and for older cars (particularly indirect injection cars) add some petrol or some kerosene to the diesel in the tank, it will lower the smoke emissions.

omg, does anybody in this country still drive cars as old as you describe mechanical wise? btw its way easier to pass NCT with diesel car than petrol one. black smoke out of a pipe is not a single indication of CO2 emmisions. Yea and I own a diesel at the moment and removing DPF would be foolish. just service your car regularly and DPF wont clog up.
but thats off topic EVs! EVs should be our foreseeable future vehicles, just a shame their going to be overpriced at first

Doc el brown

DesperateDan wrote: »

Q2 is a very long time away for me

Guys,
I was at the motor show in Paris thos week and got a good look at the Niro EV and got a test drive. Its a really nice car in my opinion, much nicer and more roomy than the kona. I got a price list for France and the Kia guy said that those prices are Mirrored to Ireland. Ill upload a pic of the price spec sheet, it is in french! There are 3 specs, but they said they are not sure what spec will be available out side of france.

daheff

Doc el brown wrote: »

Guys,
I got a price list for France and the Kia guy said that those prices are Mirrored to Ireland.

so looking at that, the bottom level car is 42,500 EUR. If you take away 5k in VRT & 5K in SEAI grants you are at 32.500- same as the PHEV model (or am I missing something)?

If thats the case who is going to buy a PHEV?

hmmm....might just have to hold off on the PHEV until i see prices for this.

DrPhilG

With the UK grant reduction, plus the hassle and costs of extra VAT, VRT etc could it actually be possible that I'd be cheaper to buy in Ireland???

KCross

Doc el brown wrote: »

I got a price list for France and the Kia guy said that those prices are Mirrored to Ireland. Ill upload a pic of the price spec sheet, it is in french! There are 3 specs, but they said they are not sure what spec will be available out side of france.

That wont be true anyway unless the guy you were talking to is part of Kia Ireland. Each importer will decide their own prices and specs etc so you cant really take much from that price list as we dont know which version they will import here.

daheff wrote: »

so looking at that, the bottom level car is 42,500 EUR. If you take away 5k in VRT & 5K in SEAI grants you are at 32.500- same as the PHEV model (or am I missing something)?

If thats the case who is going to buy a PHEV?

hmmm....might just have to hold off on the PHEV until i see prices for this.

The thing is, is that French price list including its own grant or not?
And regardless, there will be added VAT and VRT need to be added here so again hard to tell exactly what price or spec it will land here for, plus add delivery and related charges etc.


I very much doubt you will get a 64kWh eNiro for the current PHEV price.


We simply have to wait for Kia Ireland prices.

DrPhilG

If you take the top spec, add metallic paint, change the vat rate from 20 to 23%, add the VRT amount (above the €5k) you're looking at around €39k on the road in Ireland.

Optimistic I reckon. No way they won't at least jack it on up to €39,995.

DrPhilG

Plus as KCross said, how the hell would some Kia France rep know what the Irish price will be?

Shefwedfan

daheff wrote: »

so looking at that, the bottom level car is 42,500 EUR. If you take away 5k in VRT & 5K in SEAI grants you are at 32.500- same as the PHEV model (or am I missing something)?

If thats the case who is going to buy a PHEV?

hmmm....might just have to hold off on the PHEV until i see prices for this.

Go to the Kona thread and you will see similar maths right from page 1....all been positive towards a 30-35k price......


None right.....they will not sell the Niro at 32k. Expect in and around 40k which would be similar to the Kona


If the Niro is more expensive in Korea to the Kona, it will be more expensive here

DesperateDan

https://twitter.com/kia_ireland/status/1050758323434377216

There is a Kia dealer thing tonight. The dealer I was talking to said they have a few of these for different regions in the country up until around the 25th, but I don't know if that's true there's only probably 40 dealers in the country.

daheff

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Go to the Kona thread and you will see similar maths right from page 1....all been positive towards a 30-35k price......


None right.....they will not sell the Niro at 32k. Expect in and around 40k which would be similar to the Kona


If the Niro is more expensive in Korea to the Kona, it will be more expensive here

Damn you and your sensible logic!

You've just burst my happy place. I hope you feel like you've kicked a small puppy :P


In all seriousness, 40k is a big ask for a KIA EV

Shefwedfan

daheff wrote: »

Damn you and your sensible logic!

You've just burst my happy place. I hope you feel like you've kicked a small puppy :P


In all seriousness, 40k is a big ask for a KIA EV

Thats the issue......


If I did need to swap the eGolf even a Leaf 2 and 10k in my back pocket would look better

bonoman66

KCross wrote: »

The thing is, is that French price list including its own grant or not?
And regardless, there will be added VAT and VRT need to be added here so again hard to tell exactly what price or spec it will land here for, plus add delivery and related charges etc.


I very much doubt you will get a 64kWh eNiro for the current PHEV price.


We simply have to wait for Kia Ireland prices.

Based on the info I copied from the web & posted here (in post 463 in this thread), the prices I found back on Oct 3rd are the same as the ones on the sheet from the Paris Motor show & it mentioned in that online article that the prices were as follows..

Quote

."the gross floor price is 42,500 or 38,500 euros respectively for the 64 kWh version with 485 kilometers of autonomy (combined cycle WLTP) and the battery with 39.2 kWh of capacity and 312 km of autonomy. By deducting the current bonus Ecological 6,000 euros, prices fall to 36,500 and 32,500 euros, and even to 34,000 and 30,000 euros by getting rid of a car concerned by the premium to the conversion of 2,500 euros...."

So it does look like those prices are excluding the French Grant etc..

I know this still confirms nothing officially about what may happen here in Ireland but its just possibly helping to answer that part of the question you had (providing the article was accurate of course - of which I can't say etc..).

daheff

bonoman66 wrote: »

So it does look like those prices are excluding the French Grant etc..

in fairness, if the 42k was the after grants price in France, you'd be looking at nearly 50k list price there!