Kia Niro EV

You think 38-42 Kw is fast charging ? when you're waiting to charge it's not so fast at all, now imagine Small Children in the back having already travelled 1+ hr in the car facing a 40+ min fast charge and another hour or more to drive home.

"So at 50 kw chargers it still charged at 38 to 42 kw." why wouldn't it ? it will charge at the same rate at the same temp regardless. Unless it's plugged into a less powerful charger.

Water John

I'd say the solution to that dilemna is a little engine under the bonnet, or else don't have the wains.

Old diesel

Deleted User wrote: »

You think 38-42 Kw is fast charging ? when you're waiting to charge it's not so fast at all, now imagine Small Children in the back having already travelled 1+ hr in the car facing a 40+ min fast charge and another hour or more to drive home.

"So at 50 kw chargers it still charged at 38 to 42 kw." why wouldn't it ? it will charge at the same rate at the same temp regardless. Unless it's plugged into a less powerful charger.

I never said "it's good enough".

I'm saying that at 50 kw chargers the effect of coldgate seemed limited on the latest trip.

On the higher speed chargers the impact was far more severe with a max of 53 kw instead of 74 kw that was seen when ambient temperatures were higher in summer etc.

Perhaps I've seen too many L40 rapidgate reports but I think this is less a problem then rapidgate for Ireland.

The fact Bjorn was only getting 163 miles when extrapolated to 100 percent theoretical figure (he was apparently doing 170 kms a leg with 65 percent of battery) is more worrying.

Old diesel

Old diesel wrote: »

I never said "it's good enough".

I'm saying that at 50 kw chargers the effect of coldgate seemed limited on the latest trip.

On the higher speed chargers the impact was far more severe with a max of 53 kw instead of 74 kw that was seen when ambient temperatures were higher in summer etc.

Perhaps I've seen too many L40 rapidgate reports but I think this is less a problem then rapidgate for Ireland.

The fact Bjorn was only getting 163 miles when extrapolated to 100 percent theoretical figure (he was apparently doing 170 kms a leg with 65 percent of battery) is more worrying.

Fair enough,

Can't know anything for sure unless we know the actual battery temps.

I wouldn't call it less of a problem than rapid gate on a 40 Kwh leaf, slow charging is slow charging whether it's related to cold or heat and the issue is even more pronounced with a non Thermally controlled battery.

As I said, Ireland normally has a cool climate and in Summer after leaving the car all night could see it's battery temp drop well below 20 deg C as temps can hit as low as 10 Degrees C in the middle of Summer not much different tot he middle of Winter, of course there are years of significant difference.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

I'd say the solution to that dilemna is a little engine under the bonnet, or else don't have the wains.

Whatever suits the driver but it's not just about the driver, family also has to be considered so people need to get a car that is suitable for all as I learned after driving 90,000 odd Kms in a 24 Kwh leaf for 3 years, many trips I was not able to take and many I regretted.

Old diesel

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair enough,

Can't know anything for sure unless we know the actual battery temps.

I wouldn't call it less of a problem than rapid gate on a 40 Kwh leaf, slow charging is slow charging whether it's related to cold or heat and the issue is even more pronounced with a non Thermally controlled battery.

As I said, Ireland normally has a cool climate and in Summer after leaving the car all night could see it's battery temp drop well below 20 deg C as temps can hit as low as 10 Degrees C in the middle of Summer not much different tot he middle of Winter, of course there are years of significant difference.

Reasons why coldgate is (likely) less annoying of an issue then Rapidgate.

1) The worst impact is at the start of the journey - the car gets better as the battery heats up.

2) overtime we can possibly develop strategies to put heat in battery. Like for example having an early first stop at 50 percent and charge to 70 percent. So we get some Coldgate out of the way in a shorter early stop and perhaps get a better outcome at our longer subsequent charge. Not tried it though.

3) with rapidgate we have to try to lose heat. With coldgate we have to add heat - I think it's easier to do the latter then do the former.

4) can hoon it down the motorway (weather permitting) at full speed limit.

5) at relatively low temps Bjorn still achieved 400 to 500 miles in 11 hours. Even with 1 hour stops. Rapidgate can at its worst can cause 2 hour stops or stupid amount of shorter stops.

6) Coldgate on day 1 of a multi day trip won't knock on into day 2 and 3 in the same way hot weather rapidgate will. (L40 battery will be hotter at start of day two then at start of day 1 as some day 1 excess heat still stuck in battery - hit rapidgate earlier on day 2).

7) Coldgate at its worst in Ireland will often coincide with good lord its drive only if you absolutely have to weather. With Theresa Mannion standing outside with 20 layers of clothing telling us not to drive. While we all look at each other wordering whose going to point out that Theresa got to the filming point by DRIVING or someone else DRIVING

slicedpanman

Agree with all of above; have been told that 8 out of 10 dentists also prefer Coldgate

Old diesel

Old diesel wrote: »

Reasons why coldgate is (likely) less annoying of an issue then Rapidgate.

1) The worst impact is at the start of the journey - the car gets better as the battery heats up.

2) overtime we can possibly develop strategies to put heat in battery. Like for example having an early first stop at 50 percent and charge to 70 percent. So we get some Coldgate out of the way in a shorter early stop and perhaps get a better outcome at our longer subsequent charge. Not tried it though.

Not really sure , it would depend on the battery chemistry and how fast it charges at 50% to begin with, in the case of the 24 Kwh Leaf it will only be charging at 30-35 Kw at 50% which is not going to heat a cold battery much.

Other batteries that don't ramp down as early might be better and depends on the chemistry/internal resistance which in the case of a 40 Kwh Leaf must be quite high so this would actually probably work best on a 40 Kwh leaf. The 30 Kwh leaf also doesn't ramp down as fast as a 24 Kwh leaf.

Old diesel wrote: »

3) with rapidgate we have to try to lose heat. With coldgate we have to add heat - I think it's easier to do the latter then do the former.

Correct unless the car has active cooling.

Old diesel wrote: »

4) can hoon it down the motorway (weather permitting) at full speed limit.

Faster driving means loosing range faster and longer charge times.

Old diesel wrote: »

5) at relatively low temps Bjorn still achieved 400 to 500 miles in 11 hours. Even with 1 hour stops. Rapidgate can at its worst can cause 2 hour stops or stupid amount of shorter stops.

The larger the battery to begin with the less public charging will be needed.

Old diesel wrote: »

6) Coldgate on day 1 of a multi day trip won't knock on into day 2 and 3 in the same way hot weather rapidgate will. (L40 battery will be hotter at start of day two then at start of day 1 as some day 1 excess heat still stuck in battery - hit rapidgate earlier on day 2).

You'd be surprised how quickly a battery will cool down in an Irish climate, particularly if it's windy even in Summer.

Old diesel wrote: »

7) Coldgate at its worst in Ireland will often coincide with good lord its drive only if you absolutely have to weather. With Theresa Mannion standing outside with 20 layers of clothing telling us not to drive. While we all look at each other wordering whose going to point out that Theresa got to the filming point by DRIVING or someone else DRIVING

You'd also be surprised how you can be caught out in cold, a few weeks before Christmas we went to Galway and had no place to plug in to charge and preheat the i3 battery so we went to the fast charger and charged at only about 35 Kw according to the charger so charged for about 20 mins and headed on to the next one which by that time was warm enough to pull 55 Kw from the charger according to the charger but we still needed to make a 2nd stop which can be seriously inconvenient if someone is already charging or there's a queue.

Rapidgate is also pretty unique to a Nissan leaf 40 Kwh not an issue with an i3 with it's AC cooled battery, you could fast charge endlessly and it will have 0 impact, the same can't be said for the Leaf or Ioniq I believe even with it's fan cooled battery it's seemingly not enough for some circumstances.

slicedpanman

slicedpanman wrote: »

Agree with all of above; have been told that 8 out of 10 dentists also prefer Coldgate

That's only if you got an EV with a battery with no form of Thermal management.

As I said , slow charging is slow charging hot or cold, when you want to fast charge you want to fast charge.

kuro68k

Deleted User wrote: »

You think 38-42 Kw is fast charging ? when you're waiting to charge it's not so fast at all, now imagine Small Children in the back having already travelled 1+ hr in the car facing a 40+ min fast charge and another hour or more to drive home.

Except that it's more like after 3-4 hours of driving. Keep in mind Bjorn was driving in the worst possible conditions. Sub-zero temperatures, strong headwind, snow on the ground. In the kind of weather Ireland gets you could easily do 400 km on the initial charge, so at an optimistic 100kph that would be 4 hours of driving.

After that amount of time I'd imagine the small children would be glad of a 40 minute break, to eat and use the bathroom.

While faster charging is nice it's only a big issue if you are driving for more than about 8 hours in a day.

unkel

People seem to underestimate head wind. If you have a 50km/h head wind in a Leaf 40kWh on the motorway and you drive at Leafspeed™ (90km/h GPS), your range will only be about 100km, in 28kWh Ioniq maybe 140km

You just can not publish any test result of EV fuel consumption when serious head wind was involved. It makes the results void. Unless of course you compare two or more cars directly in exactly the same circumstances.

kuro68k

kuro68k wrote: »

Except that it's more like after 3-4 hours of driving. Keep in mind Bjorn was driving in the worst possible conditions. Sub-zero temperatures, strong headwind, snow on the ground. In the kind of weather Ireland gets you could easily do 400 km on the initial charge, so at an optimistic 100kph that would be 4 hours of driving.

After that amount of time I'd imagine the small children would be glad of a 40 minute break, to eat and use the bathroom.

While faster charging is nice it's only a big issue if you are driving for more than about 8 hours in a day.

Yeah that's nice and all that but the point of fast charging is that A, it's actually fast when you need it and B, there's an available charger when you need it.

More range certainly helps but when you need to charge you can be stuck with slow charging and a crap charging network.

You'll most likely need the charging network when away from home and more range is always good but if you have to charge a 60 Kwh battery at 35 kw it's not so good.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

People seem to underestimate head wind. If you have a 50km/h head wind in a Leaf 40kWh on the motorway and you drive at Leafspeed™ (90km/h GPS), your range will only be about 100km, in 28kWh Ioniq maybe 140km

You just can not publish any test result of EV fuel consumption when serious head wind was involved. It makes the results void. Unless of course you compare two or more cars directly in exactly the same circumstances.

Ah no don't think that'c correct, I've driven the i3 in worse headwinds and have got a lot more range than 100 Kms so the Leaf should get a bit more even if it's not quite as efficient.

unkel

Did you measure the head winds?

90km/h plus 50km/h head winds = 140km/h

Leaf 40kWh will not do much more than 100km in winter at 140km/h...

Obviously this is a simplification. Winds are rarely constant at ground level, a mean head wind of 10km/h with gusts of 50km/h is different and less severe to range compared to a mean head wind of 30km/h with gusts of 40km/h

Ah yeah in fairness I've gotten way more than 100 Km in a 33 Kwh i3 Rex with 29.5 Kwh usable in pretty stormy weather including gusts including the last 6.5 % unusable in the Rex.

slicedpanman

Deleted User wrote: »

slicedpanman wrote: »

Agree with all of above; have been told that 8 out of 10 dentists also prefer Coldgate

That's only if you got an EV with a battery with no form of Thermal management.

As I said , slow charging is slow charging hot or cold, when you want to fast charge you want to fast charge.

Prolly should have included a winking face in my post

mrbongo

I emailed Kia to check on when the e-Niro can be reserved, got this reply:

Many thanks for your enquiry through our website.

The e-Niro is available for reservation now at your local dealer, the car will be available for supply in April of this year.

I have attached a link to find your closest dealer here - https://www.kia.com/ie/find-a-dealer/#/

Will be amazed if they arrive in April, but perhaps they can be reserved, I haven't tried,

Mike

ELM327

mrbongo wrote: »

I emailed Kia to check on when the e-Niro can be reserved, got this reply:
Will be amazed if they arrive in April, but perhaps they can be reserved, I haven't tried,

Mike

I tried there and they cannot be reserved online, there is no hyperlink behind the Kona EV image, just an "upcoming" banner

mrbongo

ELM327 wrote: »

I tried there and they cannot be reserved online, there is no hyperlink behind the Kona EV image, just an "upcoming" banner

The email said to reserve at a Kia dealer, there is no online option.

Round Cable

mrbongo wrote: »

The email said to reserve at a Kia dealer, there is no online option.

Have they released Irish pricing?

icom

mrbongo wrote: »

The email said to reserve at a Kia dealer, there is no online option.

Sent this info to my local Kia dealer saying I want to reserve the e-Niro for April delivery, let's see what they say.


Thank you for your request.
Our customer service will get back to you as soon as possible.

mrbongo

Round Cable wrote: »

Have they released Irish pricing?

Not that I've heard. Might drop into Kia soon and see what they say

Shefwedfan

I talked to Kia dealer at Christmas

Some demo models to arrive in Q1 this year but will be for press. Maybe the dealers might get hands on them to do events, road show the guys I talked to mentioned

In regards to ordering etc, they had no idea. He said he would go off and check and come back.....then of course tried to flog me a PHEV which was in stock

BIGT4464

I'm looking into getting one in 2020 so I suppose no rush in reserving yet.

Shefwedfan

BIGT4464 wrote: »

I'm looking into getting one in 2020 so I suppose no rush in reserving yet.

I wouldnt be so sure....supply will be limited and the Irish dealers are not really busting down the door to get


In Norway etc they will be mopping up stock

Stefs_42

BIGT4464 wrote: »

I'm looking into getting one in 2020 so I suppose no rush in reserving yet.

might as well wait for e-tron then and vw evs theys should be readily available by 2020

ELM327

Stefs_42 wrote: »

might as well wait for e-tron then and vw evs theys should be readily available by 2020

Not in same price league

unkel

eNiro is in the 30k range. E-tron in the 90k range. Not quite comparable but their range will be similar enough

Stefs_42

unkel wrote: »

eNiro is in the 30k range. E-tron in the 90k range. Not quite comparable but their range will be similar enough

vw id might be in similar price range tho!

icom

icom wrote: »

Sent this info to my local Kia dealer saying I want to reserve the e-Niro for April delivery, let's see what they say.


Thank you for your request.
Our customer service will get back to you as soon as possible.

Fair play, they called me about two hours after submitting the request saying that the e-Niro is not available to order (as far as they are aware), and no pricing is available yet, but they would get back to me again as soon as they know.

Bad communication between the Head Office and the Dealer Network ?

I'll be calling in with them soon to have the radar unit replaced under warranty on my Leaf 40, so will ask them about the e-Niro again.