H&M apologises for image of black child wearing ‘monkey’ top

_Dara_

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Look, I'm an ordinary Mum. I see the picture, look at the jumper and think "oh, cute, looks warm enough and good enough quality, I like the green, price not too bad".

Apparently a lot of people look at it and think : "something something monkey ... black kid".

Do you not see how one does not come close to race or appearance (of the person), while the other is completely focused on the issue of race ?

I can't understand how you can't understand it.

The charge is been that if it registers with you, you’re racist. Once again, I ask: has nobody who objected been black? If some of the objectors are black, are they racist against themselves?

People are aware of racist taunting using monkeys and things related to them. If that invokes a reaction in some of them when they see this ad, they are drawing from their knowledge of racist tropes. It doesn’t mean that they agree with the tropes. It makes no sense to call someone racist for reacting negatively to the ad. It’s a nice, glib statement to say that they are the racists but it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

Larbre34

It would've been a sassy comeback, if it wasn't for the your/you're mistake.

_Dara_

Larbre34 wrote: »

It would've been a sassy comeback, if it wasn't for the your/you're mistake.

My post? I don't see a typo but maybe there is one.

Mountainsandh

_Dara_ wrote: »

The charge is been that if it registers with you, you’re racist. Once again, I ask: has nobody who objected been black? If some of the objectors are black, are they racist against themselves?

People are aware of racist taunting using monkeys and things related to them. If that invokes a reaction in some of them when they see this ad, they are drawing from their knowledge of racist tropes. It doesn’t mean that they agree with the tropes. It makes no sense to call someone racist for reacting negatively to the ad. It’s a nice, glib statement to say that they are the racists but it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

It very much does with white people reacting to this. And there obviously have been and are plenty.

Incidentally, people who happen to be black can be racist too, and they can also be over-reactive when it comes to race issues that really aren't ones.

The plight of the forever-offended is not an exclusively white one.

screamer

The irony here is outstanding. We all want a world where everyone is treated the same, yet here is a top, put it on a white child grand. Put it on a black child and it's racist. This constant type of thinking and hyper offended reaction is exactly why racism will continue to exist. At some point every minority or oppressed people need to make peace with things and try to move along in thinking. It's a keystone to make changes so.those who seek offense in all things and shout outrage are the very ones who are keeping the status quo. Personally I did not look at that picture and see a racist slur... Because I looked at the picture and saw a child, skin colour irrelevant, to me he's just a little boy same as any other little boy. I'd imagine the shop did likewise.... Imagine saying to him oh no now you can't model that top because you're black...... Now there's racism.

sbsquarepants

Verpiss dich wrote: »

Don't know about that a teacher was fired for saying well done girls to a group of girls.

Unbelievable, yet believable at the same time!

_Dara_ wrote: »

Has nobody black objected? And if there has been objections by black people, does that make them racist towards... themselves?

I read that the weeknd has cut whatever ties he had with them over it (not sure what they were exactly)

Reads like hypocritical bullshít to me. I like the weeknd, beauty behind the madness is an outstanding album, - but here's a sample song lyric -

"Go tell your friends about it,
I'm that nígger with the hair,
sings about popping pills fúcking bitches,
living life so trill"

Tell your black friends only presumably - honky can't use the N word.
Or put a coolest monkey in the jungle hoodie on a child it would seem. Clown!

fyfe79

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The child is a model. His mother would have been paid for the session. It's just a job to them

Woah, woah, woah! Why would his mother get paid, and not his father? Are you assuming the kids father is no longer around? Playing to the stereotype of a dead-beat black dad?

Yeah, I'm taking the p!ss here, outlandishly jumping to conclusions in order to try and feel outraged on behalf of others in order to make you feel bad

topper75

Speaking of mother, I think this might close off the thread finally:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5257715/Mother-H-M-race-row-child-model-speaks-out.html

Of course some types might object to a Daily Mail link, but then that type objects to an awful lot.

Cool no nonsense mam, cool kid. Hope they go on to make loads of money.

Dravokivich

Pelvis wrote: »

I'm more offended by the fact that there are people that are so ignorant that they can't even see why this could be considered racist by some.

"If your first thought was 'racism' then you're a racist blah blah... "

Are you ****in kidding me?

I'm not around people often who'd have racist ideals. Why would I know their code words? I don't go looking that crap up, to keep a glossary in the back of my mind. I see a kid wearing a fun top. No more no less. Anyone who sees anymore than that, are just people who are wired to look for problems in all walks of life.

_Dara_ wrote: »

So people keep saying. But to hesitate and think "Hmmm, there's a different connotation here with all the racist taunting that evoked monkeys in the present and past, maybe this won't go down well with the child's parents" isn't racist. I can't understand why anyone would think the above is racist thinking.

In the thread, it's been repeatedly said that the objections have all been by white people. Is the case? I don't know, I haven't looked into it. But I wouldn't assume that to the case without looking into it. Has nobody black objected? And if there has been objections by black people, does that make them racist towards... themselves?

The topic doesn't matter, it can be perceived as sexist, ageist, able(ist?). They just want to scream and Twitter gives them the platform to do so.

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm not around people often who'd have racist ideals. Why would I know their code words? I don't go looking that crap up, to keep a glossary in the back of my mind. I see a kid wearing a fun top. No more no less. Anyone who sees anymore than that, are just people who are wired to look for problems in all walks of life...

So people like Lebron James who have slammed the ad and have been on the receiving end of racist abuse, he's just "wired to look for problems" and his complaint is not legitimate?

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

So people like Lebron James who have slammed the ad and have been on the receiving end of racist abuse, he's just "wired to look for problems" and his complaint is not legitimate?

So people like the childs mother who told everyone to "get over it" are missing a legitimate case of racism?

Just because Lebron James is black doesnt mean he cant also be a snowflake idiot.

Dravokivich

Deleted User wrote: »

So people like Lebron James who have slammed the ad and have been on the receiving end of racist abuse, he's just "wired to look for problems" and his complaint is not legitimate?

If that's the stance he takes towards a kid wearing a jumper. With no context for anything racist what so over. Then yes. That would very much be the case.

GreeBo

Only the people involved in the shoot get to decide if its racist or not.
They are the only ones know know why the black kid is wearing the monkey jumper, you don't get to decide from the outside if something is racist, otherwise anyone can shout and point at almost anything and decide its racist.

Maybe the jumper just suited this kid better than the other kids, maybe the kid picked up the jumper himself, is he then a racist too?!

retro:electro

Well done to his mother for seeing through the bullshlt and teaching her son that we are all the same, and he is just as much entitled to wear that hoodie or any item of clothing he so wishes as the white boy in his class.
All I see is a cute little boy in a jumper.
Deliberately leaving someone out of something due to percieved offence is more discriminatory to me than anything. But it is one way to hold people back, ensuring they have a constant reminder of oppression and subjection any time you can- and not allow them to progress with the times.

GreeBo

anna080 wrote: »

Deliberately leaving someone out of something due to percieved offence is more discriminatory to me than anything.

I'd go much further than that, as I said earlier *thats* the definition of racism!

Can you imagine trying to explain to the boy that he cant wear the green hoodie because he is black and that its in *his* best interests not to because other people might find it racist?

Irish Guitarist

I had to look up who LeBron James is.

Wouldn't the fact he's American mean he's not familiar with the phrase "cheeky little monkey"? If he's ever in England he'll be shocked when someone asks him if they can bum a fag or when he finds out what a fanny is.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

So people like the childs mother who told everyone to "get over it" are missing a legitimate case of racism?

Just because Lebron James is black doesnt mean he cant also be a snowflake idiot.

He had the word "N****r" sprayed on his property.

And you suggest he is a snowflake? Maybe he just lacks your insight on how he should feel and react.

I'm not surprised that the mother who thought it was okay and presumably got paid for her sons work still thinks it's okay. But she can't speak for others who say they found it unacceptable.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

He had the word "N****r" sprayed on his property.

And you suggest he is a snowflake? Maybe he just lacks your insight on how he should feel and react.

What has that got to do with the kid wearing a hoodie?

PopePalpatine

Deleted User wrote: »

He had the word "N****r" sprayed on his property.

And you suggest he is a snowflake? Maybe he just lacks your insight on how he should feel and react.

I'm not surprised that the mother who thought it was okay and presumably got paid for her sons work still thinks it's okay. But she can't speak for others who say they found it unacceptable.

Don't you know that it's racist to think that "n****r" is racist?

...aw shit, now I've done it. Better go grow a neckbeard and a fedora with an SS Totenkopf to fit in with the millennial breed of racists that hang out on 4chan.

Fann Linn

topper75 wrote: »

Speaking of mother, I think this might close off the thread finally:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5257715/Mother-H-M-race-row-child-model-speaks-out.html

Of course some types might object to a Daily Mail link, but then that type objects to an awful lot.

Cool no nonsense mam, cool kid. Hope they go on to make loads of money.

The mother nails it: 'An unneccessary issue here'

GreeBo

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Don't you know that it's racist to think that "n****r" is racist?

Strawman much?

Maybe I missed the pictures of a black kid in that hoodie?

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

What has that got to do with the kid wearing a hoodie?

Um...you've already commented on him. Here you go...

GreeBo wrote: »

Just because Lebron James is black doesnt mean he cant also be a snowflake idiot.

You can't say he may be a snowflake and then run away. He slammed the ad, is he entitled to his stance?

Dravokivich

Deleted User wrote: »

Um...you've already commented on him. Here you go...



You can't say he may be a snowflake and then run away. He slammed the ad, is he entitled to his stance?

He can have his opinion. But challenging H&M's motivations, that were in no way aligned to what is being called out against, he should put his hands up and say he was mistaken.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Um...you've already commented on him. Here you go...



You can't say he may be a snowflake and then run away. He slammed the ad, is he entitled to his stance?

I'm not running anywhere.

He had racial hatred sprayed on his house, the doesn't make him the authority on what's racism.
Hence, what that incident got to do with this h&m case?

No he isn't entitled to decide what's racist and what isn't.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

No he isn't entitled to decide what's racist and what isn't.

And yet post after post here by people who think that the mother who got paid for the ad is now the oracle, and if she's says it's fine well it's fine for all black people!

He doesn't purport to decide what is racist. You surely accept there is an element of subjectivity in that anyway. And he can certainly decide what he finds unacceptable.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

And yet post after post here by people who think that the mother who got paid for the ad is now the oracle, and if she's says it's fine well it's fine for all black people!

He doesn't purport to decide what is racist. You surely accept there is an element of subjectivity in that anyway. And he can certainly decide what he finds unacceptable.

Yes, because as I posted earlier, only the people involved in the decision know if race was involved or not. The mother was one of those people, LeBron James wasn't.

Designing a hoodie with the word monkey on it is not racist, a black child wearing said hoodie is not racist. Hell even specifically choosing the black kid to wear it might not be racist if it happens to look better against black skin.
Unless you are involved, you just don't know.

If I decide to not hire a black guy and instead hire a white guy, LeBron can't get up in arms and publicly call me a racist as he has no idea why I picked the white guy.

Racism is discrimination and prejudice, nothing more, nothing less.

Skullface McGubbin

H&M marketing team member 1: alright guys it's 2015 2017 2018. How can we go about showing just how modern & progressive we are to consumers out there today?

H&M marketing team member 2: How about we feature a black kid in our newest kids' clothing range. Diversity is all the rage these days. people will love it. Especially those people on social media who love to signal their progressive virtues all the time.

H&M marketing team member 1: I love it. What do the rest of you think of it?

The rest of the H&M marketing team: We love it too.

H&M marketing team member 1: Alright then. We're doing it. The consumers will love it. I think we've got the Midas touch lads, I can feel it. This is going to be another moment of gold for us. It's like we can do no wrong.

_Dara_

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm not around people often who'd have racist ideals. Why would I know their code words? I don't go looking that crap up, to keep a glossary in the back of my mind. I see a kid wearing a fun top. No more no less. Anyone who sees anymore than that, are just people who are wired to look for problems in all walks of life.

This is a crock of shit. People can know about these things because they are well-read and curious and like to know a lot about the world. They are not necessarily seeking these things out.

Mountainsandh

Skullface McGubbin wrote: »

H&M marketing team member 1: alright guys it's 2015 2017 2018. How can we go about showing just how modern & progressive we are to consumers out there today?

H&M marketing team member 2: How about we feature a black kid in our newest kids' clothing range. Diversity is all the rage these days. people will love it. Especially those people on social media who love to signal their progressive virtues all the time.

H&M marketing team member 1: I love it. What do the rest of you think of it?

The rest of the H&M marketing team: We love it too.

H&M marketing team member 1: Alright then. We're doing it. The consumers will love it. I think we've got the Midas touch lads, I can feel it. This is going to be another moment of gold for us. It's like we can do no wrong.

https://www.justfortrendygirls.com/2011/10/27/hm-fall-collection-for-kids/
H&M Fall collection for kids. 2011.

Dravokivich

_Dara_ wrote: »

This is a crock of shit. People can know about these things because they are well-read and curious and like to know a lot about the world. They are not necessarily seeking these things out.

I'm 33, not isolated to the world and have never come across monkey being used as a derogatory phrase towards black people. It's only through this thread I've also found out slant has been associated against asians. It's very easy not to know something when you've got no interest in it what so ever. If you want to call crap on that, take your shovel elsewhere.

Irish Guitarist

Deleted User wrote: »

And yet post after post here by people who think that the mother who got paid for the ad is now the oracle, and if she's says it's fine well it's fine for all black people!

He doesn't purport to decide what is racist. You surely accept there is an element of subjectivity in that anyway. And he can certainly decide what he finds unacceptable.

The mother was the one dealing with H&M and is a better judge of their intentions than some American Basketball player that wasn't in the room with them.

H&M gave the child some pocket money and he probably enjoyed being the centre of attention. These rich celebrities that are acting like they're sticking up for the boy wouldn't give a shit about him if he wasn't in the news. They can call him a 'king' all they want but I don't see them encouraging him to be a child model. What type of career is being a fictional 'king'? How's that going to help him in life?

Irish Guitarist

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The mother was the one dealing with H&M and is a better judge of their intentions than some American Basketball player that wasn't in the room with them.

I doubt very much the mother had any role in the marketing campaign, beyond driving her son to the audition or shoot and collecting the cheque.

Irish Guitarist

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt very much the mother had any role in the marketing campaign, beyond driving her son to the audition or shoot and collecting the cheque.

Yeah. I'm sure she just drove him to the photo shoot and left him at the door. She definitely never talked to anyone from H&M.

Way to make her sound like some kind of money hungry pimp. The kid is so lucky to have celebrities and people on forums fighting his corner.

Irish Guitarist

GreeBo wrote: »

Yes, because as I posted earlier, only the people involved in the decision know if race was involved or not. The mother was one of those people, LeBron James wasn't.

Designing a hoodie with the word monkey on it is not racist, a black child wearing said hoodie is not racist. Hell even specifically choosing the black kid to wear it might not be racist if it happens to look better against black skin.
Unless you are involved, you just don't know.

If I decide to not hire a black guy and instead hire a white guy, LeBron can't get up in arms and publicly call me a racist as he has no idea why I picked the white guy.

Racism is discrimination and prejudice, nothing more, nothing less.

LeBron James doesn't even know anything about the child. I found an interview with him in which he's talking about what struggles 'African Americans' have been through. He seemingly has no clue that this child is Swedish nor does he know anything else about the situation.

GreeBo

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

LeBron James doesn't even know anything about the child. I found an interview with him in which he's talking about what struggles 'African Americans' have been through. He seemingly has no clue that this child is Swedish nor does he know anything else about the situation.

#metoo :rolleyes:

Irish Guitarist

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

LeBron James doesn't even know anything about the child. I found an interview with him in which he's talking about what struggles 'African Americans' have been through. He seemingly has no clue that this child is Swedish nor does he know anything else about the situation.

What difference does the child being Swedish make?

The issues are the colour of skin and whether a message about monkeys and jungles is appropriate. H&M have stores in the USA, do you think he is not entitled to comment on their marketing campaigns?

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

#metoo :rolleyes:

Really?

You too?

Have you had the word "nxxxxr" sprayed across the front of your house?

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Really?

You too?

Have you had the word "nxxxxr" sprayed across the front of your house?

No, i have a green hoodie that says monkey on it.

I think you might be in the wrong thread tbh Conor.

Irish Guitarist

Deleted User wrote: »

What difference does the child being Swedish make?

The issues are the colour of skin and whether a message about monkeys and jungles is appropriate. H&M have stores in the USA, do you think he is not entitled to comment on their marketing campaigns?

Come off it. Now you're just pretending to miss the point. He's calling this child a king when he clearly knows absolutely nothing about him. Hypocritical bullshit. The child is probably a big hit with his school friends because H&M are the ones who put him on their website. They've probably done more for his confidence than some opportunistic American celebrity ever will.

And what's H&M having American branches got to do with anything? The price of the hoodie is listed as £7.99 meaning it was originally on the UK website. He wouldn't have even seen it only for other idiots tweeting it to him. 'Cheeky little monkey' is an English term of endearment for a child.

Deleted User wrote: »

Really?

You too?

Have you had the word "nxxxxr" sprayed across the front of your house?

Except that never happened to the boy in the hoodie.

_Dara_

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm 33, not isolated to the world and have never come across monkey being used as a derogatory phrase towards black people.

Well, I’m 34 and very much have. And not because I’m seeking it out. That makes no sense anyway. How would that even manifest? Wake up one day and decide to search for derogatory terms for people of a different colour to me? No, through reading books, watching loads of film, being interesting in cultural and current affairs since childhood, I’ve amassed any knowledge I happen to have on race relations. I find it really hard to believe that you have never heard of any reference to black people being likened to monkeys anywhere but, okay, if you haven’t, fine. But kindly don’t assume that those of us who have are looking for things to be offended about.

tonycascarino

It's all a load of hogwash. If the mother of the child isn't offended then why should anyone else be.

fritzelly

This makes me think the ones causing the big furore about this are the ones who silenty think to themselves (or talk about such things in private company that) we really shouldn't refer to them like that

PopePalpatine

_Dara_ wrote: »

Well, I’m 34 and very much have. And not because I’m seeking it out. That makes no sense anyway. How would that even manifest? Wake up one day and decide to search for derogatory terms for people of a different colour to me? No, through reading books, watching loads of film, being interesting in cultural and current affairs since childhood, I’ve amassed any knowledge I happen to have on race relations. I find it really hard to believe that you have never heard of any reference to black people being likened to monkeys anywhere but, okay, if you haven’t, fine. But kindly don’t assume that those of us who have are looking for things to be offended about.

Yep, I remember a furore from around 2010/11 about a cartoon in the New York Post commenting on the shooting of a monkey which escaped a zoo with a caption along the lines of, "At least he won't be writing any healthcare bills," right as the Republicans (and particularly their newly-adopted Tea Party wing) were rallying against Obamacare.

On top of that, every so often there's reports of "monkey chants" at football matches in countries with infamous hooligan scenes, e.g. Italy and Russia.

Birdie Num Num

tonycascarino wrote: »

It's all a load of hogwash. If the mother of the child isn't offended then why should anyone else be.

It is a load of hogwash and the reaction rather than the advert is regressive.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm 33, not isolated to the world and have never come across monkey being used as a derogatory phrase towards black people. .

I find that very hard to believe. It's a depressingly common insult. What did you think racists were doing when they threw bananas at footballers? Just giving them a snack?

dotsman

This story has taken a strange and violent twist!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42675665

AllForIt

dotsman wrote: »

This story has taken a strange and violent twist!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42675665

I laughed out loud when I read this story. The store looked as though a troop of monkeys has been let loose in it. Only it wasn't monkeys was it, it was a troop of humans. I think if anyone has a right to be offended by the advert it should be the monkeys.

GreeBo

Lol
Let's act like animals and then steal some clothes...that'll show them!

The Legend Of Kira

From a PR point of view it was carelessness on the part of H&M to put out that photo with the kid wearing that top as pretty obvious that photo would be viewed a certain way by people , they could of had a different logo on the top something more PR friendly, the news reports today that stores belonging to H&M were trashed by some mobs is an overaction; as the retail workers in those stores didn,t have anything to do with that photo being published & are only working there to make a living for themselves; if they wanted to make a point by way of protest about the photo surely they could of had a peaceful protest outside H&M head offices instead ?

BlaasForRafa

people getting offended by words in an advert :rolleyes: