Crèche wanted doctor note

Bartok

Yesterday I got a call from the crèche to say my dd's eye was a bit gunky, and could I bring her to the doctor to check if it's conjunctivitis, and if it wasn't, then to get a letter from the doctor saying she didn't have it. I totally understand the crèche policy as of course conjunctivitis is so contagious. They said even if she had it, she could come to crèche once she had started the treatment. Anyway, the doc said she didn't have it (which I knew anyway) but refused to give me a letter for the crèche. She just said they don't do that. I found that a bit annoying. Has anyone else had a doctor refuse to hand out such letters, or is it wrong of the crèche to ask?

Sleeper12

For the doctor to give you the letter you require he'd / she'd have to have your child tested to be 100 percent certain that the child does not have it. If he gives you the letter & it turns out that your child actually has it then he can be sued.

Doctors have been known to fib about the amount you drink /smoke or your weight on insurance forms but I've never known a doctor to say in writing that you don't have something without confirmation from the lab.

Bartok

Ah ok Sleeper, that does make sense.

So is that an unusual request from the crèche then? I'm wondering if this will be something I'll have to deal with in the future. She's only just started.

drunkmonkey

Doctor never had an issue giving me a letter for the crèche, even rang the manager one day to say cop the hell on.
Get a different doctor as a crèche can take the piss if you let them.

Bartok

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Doctor never had an issue giving me a letter for the crèche, even rang the manager one day to say cop the hell on.
Get a different doctor as a crèche can take the piss if you let them.

I do totally understand why the crèche need to be so careful though. If a staff member picks up something like conjunctivitis then that means they're gone for days.

happywithlife

Could you get around it by asking a doctor to confirm she is fit for creche. Not that she doesn't have something.

Wesser

Creche is just taking advantage of the under 6 card.
If you had to pay they wouldn t ask for a note.

racersedge

Wesser wrote: »

Creche is just taking advantage of the under 6 card.
If you had to pay they wouldn t ask for a note.

Hardly a case of a crèche taking advantage of the under-6 card? Sure how exactly do they benefit? Mostly likely they are following their policies and procedures that are set down on such things.

In the majority of crèches you will find that it is policy that if a child is potentially sick or coming down with something, they request you go to the doctors. Early years practitioners are not health experts, therefore they request that the child’s doctor confirms or doesn’t confirm the child has something that can potentially be contiguous. They can only go on their own experiences and again, follow the policies and procedures for the setting.

The OP’s doctor is making life hard for her, surely they should know such a letter is expected to verify rather than a case of going back and saying “well the doctor said...”, however, if the OP feels aggrieved by the crèches actions they could always ask to see the aforementioned policies and procedures to see what is written or to check back on the copy of their signed contract to see what is there.

Wesser

Before u 6 card came in creche would never insist that you brought your child to a dr or got a letter from a doctor.

Now that u6 is here they say to themselves... but sure it's free.... we may as well cover our assess... get your GP to do a letter.

Hence hundreds of children flooding into their GPs whose parents are not worried and would not be there otherwise.

Hence increased workload for GPs, frustrated GPs, GPs burning out and quitting and GPs leaving. Hence GP shortage.

Sounds dramatic but I'm not exageratting. I work in the industry and I know what's going on. Seems as though it's just one letter. Ah sure itll only take you a minute. But the child has to examined properly which takes time.....and this goes on day in day out and when you have hundreds of Patients the workload builts up and up.... for no extra payment.

The creche can policy away.... but its the GP who is getting slammed.

drunkmonkey

What needs to happen in the HSE sets the sick policy in crèches there involved in. It's left up to the individual crèches who make up their own rules which differ from place to place and can be changed on a whim.

The one I've a major issue is if a child throws up (just once) there's a 48hr exclusion policy. Now any doctor, the HSE and any parent knows there's numerous reasons a child can throw up not all of them mean the child is actually sick so in our crèche even if we know the child isn't sick a doctors letter is required if you want your child back within 24hrs.
There's no common sense involved the policy is just shoved in your face much to the annoyance of the local doctors.
If the child is vomiting well then fair enough something is wrong but when it's just once it's an ott policy seen as there doesn't need to be any other symptoms.

The HSE needs to set the policy's not people with absolutely no medical training. Every crèche has different policy's.

Will I Am Not

Wesser wrote: »

Before u 6 card came in creche would never insist that you brought your child to a dr or got a letter from a doctor.

Now that u6 is here they say to themselves... but sure it's free.... we may as well cover our assess... get your GP to do a letter.

Hence hundreds of children flooding into their GPs whose parents are not worried and would not be there otherwise.

Hence increased workload for GPs, frustrated GPs, GPs burning out and quitting and GPs leaving. Hence GP shortage.

Sounds dramatic but I'm not exageratting. I work in the industry and I know what's going on. Seems as though it's just one letter. Ah sure itll only take you a minute. But the child has to examined properly which takes time.....and this goes on day in day out and when you have hundreds of Patients the workload builts up and up.... for no extra payment.

The creche can policy away.... but its the GP who is getting slammed.

It does and you are.

Sleeper12

The Fake Sheikh wrote:

It does and you are.

I disagree. I'm not in the medical profession but I have heard "experts" on The Pat Kenny show or RTE morning show & Dr Ciara Kelly that the free GP card for the under 6s has dramatically increased visits by this age group. I think we're talking something a four fold increase.

I've no idea what crèches contributed to this increase but I do think that Wesser has a valid point

Will I Am Not

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I disagree. I'm not in the medical profession but I have heard "experts" on The Pat Kenny show or RTE morning show & Dr Ciara Kelly that the free GP card for the under 6s has dramatically increased visits by this age group. I think we're talking something a four fold increase.

I've no idea what crèches contributed to this increase but I do think that Wesser has a valid point

Of course it does, as does the ridiculous over allocation of medical cards.
It’s the ‘crèches are putting a strain on the health service by demanding doctors notes’ argument I’m talking about.

happywithlife

I Don't blame creches though as yiu have parents who think nothing of dosing the children with Calpol and sendingbthen in. I understand it's tough being a working parent but when you pick creche over any other form of childcare you should have a back up plan for when kids are sick
If parents followed the illness policy in the first instance creche wouldn't have to resort to a doctor's note

drunkmonkey

happywithlife wrote: »

I Don't blame creches though as yiu have parents who think nothing of dosing the children with Calpol and sendingbthen in. I understand it's tough being a working parent but when you pick creche over any other form of childcare you should have a back up plan for when kids are sick
If parents followed the illness policy in the first instance creche wouldn't have to resort to a doctor's note

Throwing up once is not an illness, funky eyes isn't necessarily viral conjunctivitis, a runny nose isn't the Aussie flu. Crèche assume the worst and if it isn't what they assume a doctor's note is required.
The policy isn't flexible and doesn't allow the crèche to make a wrong assumption so their assumption is correct until a doctor's note is provided regardless of how well the child seems, it's embarrassing taking a healthy child to a doctor but the crèches rules force it. Hence my doctor will ring them, give me an illness guide to give to them or write a letter, the doctor gets genuinely angry.
This isn't about having a back up plan for when a child is sick this is about a child not having the assumed illness and parents forced to prove the crèche wrong via the doctor.
This time of year coughs, runny nose are rampant and shouldn't fall under an exclusion policy but they can do.

In general though I like the crèche they do a good job and the kids seems a lot more well rounded than the ones with a childminder etc thats why I keep them there, and to be fair there rarely sick. Don't want it to sound like i'm creche bashing it's just the inflexibility of the exclusion policy and what's required when the illness assumption is wrong. Like we had at the start of this thread.

Sleeper12

My Daughter works in a creche. I was talking about this thread with her last night. She said the bottom line is that about half of parents will hide an illness and send them in anyway. This obviously leaves the other children at risk.

In most cases looking for a letter from the doctor all of a sudden the child is out sick for a few days. It forces parents to keep their children home when sick and helps protect the other children.

drunkmonkey

Yea but when you take the child home and there's nothing wrong when you pick them up and you've been with them 24hrs and there's still nothing wrong a doctor's note shouldn't be required. You can't hide a vomoting bug with calpol.

Sleeper12

I'm not justifying it. My youngest is 23 so it's a long time since we had to even think of things like that.

My daughters creche wouldn't ask for a letter. Proof of visiting the doctor is all they require.

I don't have any under 6 so it's easy for me to say it but I think the free doctors visit for all under 6 is a mistake. It playing havoc in GP surgeries

amtc

My friend has 3 under 3. They sniffle...straight to a doctor. Creche wants letter ok to be back...straight to a doctor.

I had really bad chest infection over Christmas...private patient..3 days to be seen

happywithlife

My creche is 24 not 48 hour exclusion so maybe that's more understandable. Also allowed in 24 hours after starting an antibiotic. Can't blame creche IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE of Aussie Flu to exclude any coughs/sniffles. My understanding of medical advice is to withdraw children if any symtoms are present

fima

The amount of parents that would straight out lie and deny their child is ill means that unfortunately some crèches have to impose this policy on all parents.

If parents were truthful and put their children’s health, along with the workers and others children’s health as a priority, this wouldn’t be an issue.

drunkmonkey

happywithlife wrote: »

My creche is 24 not 48 hour exclusion so maybe that's more understandable. Also allowed in 24 hours after starting an antibiotic. Can't blame creche IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE of Aussie Flu to exclude any coughs/sniffles. My understanding of medical advice is to withdraw children if any symtoms are present

Of course you can blame them, there is a huge difference between a cold and a flu. The only reason you could mix them up is if you've never had a flu.
24hrs is ok, 48 is taking the piss though and that's when the doctors notes have to be brought in when you know nothing is wrong.
No doctor will say a child should be excluded with a cough or a sniffle. Antibiotics should also not be prescribed for a cold or flu according to the HSE as they have no effect.

happywithlife

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Of course you can blame them, there is a huge difference between a cold and a flu. The only reason you could mix them up is if you've never had a flu.
24hrs is ok, 48 is taking the piss though and that's when the doctors notes have to be brought in when you know nothing is wrong.
No doctor will say a child should be excluded with a cough or a sniffle. Antibiotics should also not be prescribed for a cold or flu according to the HSE as they have no effect.

Yes I was referring to antibiotic as a separate issue to the flu issue - should have been clearer
We all know there's a difference between cold and flu but as this strain is affecting younger children I'd be eering on the side of caution too. Must say though out current creche seems to be avoiding it l. We are a busy rural creche thiugh and I'd imagine things could be different in the city.
I go back to my original point though - it's a safe enough bet to say this creche has such inane policies because parents in the first instance probably abused a more relaxed original policy and sent kids in that were sick. Consequently creche have to be awkward to send children in if under the weather as it forces parents to prove their children are fit for creche

Nellywelly

Unfortunetly, parent's have created this problem. Having worked in many areas of childcare, it was a daily occurance where you'd have a child who is obviously unwell and not fit for creche being brought in and told he was fine until now or it's 'teething' etc! Parents spooning Calpol into kids in the carpark, bringing in kids who have high temps etc....putting everyon & staff members at risk and increasing the rate of illnesses amongst the entire creche which means more parents will now need to keep their kids home when they inevitably get sick.
It is pretty hard on a child who is unwell to be expected to get on with a daily routine in a creche and, there isn't a possibility of one to one care so a creche isn't a suitable place for a sick child.
I don't think anyone would argue that a creche's illness policy is convenient for each parent but it is essential for ALL families who use the creche and staff who work there.

Annabella1

Crèches are private business and should have to pay for professional opinion
I doubt there is provision in under 6 contract for doctors to provide written notes

pwurple

You know what, parents have not created this problem.

Parents did not invent the ECCE scheme, where children are directed to creches by the govt.

Parents did not come up with Charlie McCreevys tax individualisation, which makes it almost impossible to afford to raise children and pay for a place to live without both parents working.

parents did not come up with the draconian policies, where a man cannot look after his own children even if he bloody wants to (inability to transfer mat leave), so women are forced back to work ridiculously early if they are the main earner.

Parents did not come up with the asinine planning laws which place industry and residential areas in different places, because we love the joy of commutes. They also didn’t zone dublin as the hub of every shaggin’ job, so people have had to leave the family supports of their extended family to earn a crust.

So, you may extend a little understanding to parents, who hope that the creche, (which costs them 12k to use, triple what people complain university costs them a year! Effectively a costing them a 24k wage cut) might accept that toddlers sometimes have a permanent runny nose.

In my 7 years of using a creche, I have never been asked for a doctors note. This is an all new level of taking the piss. We have enough to do without dragging a snotty child through a waiting room to be told there is nothing wrong.

We had to put triple backups in place for childcare, because I CANNOT take a day off work. I am self employed, no show up for work = unhappy client = project lost = no money.
We had A creche,
an au pair for outside creche hours,
my parents who can pick up the slack if there is sickness
And some neighbours for when all else fails.

Fair enough for serious contagious illness, but If a creche faffed about with me and red tape over something ridiculously minor, I would go nuts.

neris

pwurple wrote: »

Parents did not invent the ECCE scheme, where children are directed to creches by the govt.

Parents did not come up with Charlie McCreevys tax individualisation, which makes it almost impossible to afford to raise children and pay for a place to live without both parents working.

parents did not come up with the draconian policies, where a man cannot look after his own children even if he bloody wants to (inability to transfer mat leave), so women are forced back to work ridiculously early if they are the main earner.

Parents did not come up with the asinine planning laws which place industry and residential areas in different places, because we love the joy of commutes. They also didn’t zone dublin as the hub of every shaggin’ job, so people have had to leave the family supports of their extended family to earn a crust.

So, you may extend a little understanding to parents, who hope that the creche, (which costs them 12k to use, triple what people complain university costs them a year! Effectively a costing them a 24k wage cut) might accept that toddlers sometimes have a permanent runny nose.

In my 7 years of using a creche, I have never been asked for a doctors note. This is an all new level of taking the piss. We have enough to do without dragging a snotty child through a waiting room to be told there is nothing wrong.

but If a creche faffed about with me and red tape over something ridiculously minor, I would go nuts

and creches didnt come up with any of those policies either. children arent forced to attend ecce classes or any pre school care, creches are private businesses that have running costs and staff to staff pay hence the high costs. creches dont force people to have children so not the creches fault that you need to use them or alternative childcare

drunkmonkey

neris wrote: »

and creches didnt come up with any of those policies either. children arent forced to attend ecce classes or any pre school care, creches are private businesses that have running costs and staff to staff pay hence the high costs. creches dont force people to have children so not the creches fault that you need to use them or alternative childcare

Crèches come up with their own sickness policy's, they also.come up.with their own hours with no respect for working families, ours finished a day before every job at Xmas and returned a day after everyone else returned to work in January and there still getting paid for those days, that's piss taking.

neris

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Crèches come up with their own sickness policy's, they also.come up.with their own hours with no respect for working families, ours finished a day before every job at Xmas and returned a day after everyone else returned to work in January and there still getting paid for those days, that's piss taking.

im sure you knew the opening hours of the creche before you started your 1st day. As a private business they are entitled to set their own hours just like every other private business. It may not been viable for them to open the day before xmas as there may not have been demand from the majority of families to be open. unfortunately a social service that should be run by the state has to be carried out by private businesses owners and the govt have no interest in either parents or the operators

drunkmonkey

neris wrote: »

im sure you knew the opening hours of the creche before you started your 1st day. As a private business they are entitled to set their own hours just like every other private business. It may not been viable for them to open the day before xmas as there may not have been demand from the majority of families to be open. unfortunately a social service that should be run by the state has to be carried out by private businesses owners and the govt have no interest in either parents or the operators

It wasn't the day before Xmas it was the day before Xmas Eve a normal day for every other private business, justify going back on the 3rd of January while your at it. Your saying there was no demand, now your taking the piss.

fima

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It wasn't the day before Xmas it was the day before Xmas Eve a normal day for every other private business, justify going back on the 3rd of January while your at it. Your saying there was no demand, now your taking the piss.

That was a Saturday ? I don’t know of any crèches that open on a Saturday. Why shouldn’t the workers take holidays like everyone else?