Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119869164#Comment_119869164

By the looks of it you've been here literally years banging the same drum perhaps...move on? or actually engage in debate rather than petty slights.

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870654#Comment_119870654

Yeah because we're certainly an ideal target and definitely up next on the auld annexing block, id say the Russians and there fantastic logistics system are just chomping at the bit at the prospect of having a go at Ireland...

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870783#Comment_119870783

Its a new world pal. And not a good one.

Russia will be thrown out of Ukraine. And what do you think will happen then?

Putin might get the elbow, sure. Maybe a few of his pals. But if you're expecting Alexei Navalny to come out of the Gulag on a white horse to install true democracy and take over, you can guess again.

Can you even conceive of the depth of rotten corruption that is pervasive at every level of Government, Civil Service, Banking, Industry, Energy, Academia and Military in Russia? Do you have smallest clue what those who control the money will do to hold onto it?

They've seen men ruined in the mid 90s after the USSR fell, they aren't going to be the next fall guys and they will attach themselves to any fascist ultra-nationalist who will keep them there. Better men than us have written countless books about it in the last 20 years and they are a sobering read.

Russia will go quiet for a while but the bad guys will still be there and they will rebuild the military, because a humiliated Russian is a dangerous Russian.

NATO may end up having to fight them at some point and for as long as we are NOT a NATO member state, we are vulnerable to being a weak back door to the NATO European umbrella.

The least we must do is be able to look after our own patch. The island of Ireland, the territorial waters and the 1 million square kilometres of EEZ. The land, sea, underwater and airspace.

If we have any pretensions to being a modern, sovereign Republic, its the bare minimum.

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870893#Comment_119870893

I just think your view is very short sighted, and there are some gaping holes in what your saying.. again using Russia as a reason to massively increase our military spending is a massive stretch.

But even if we did do that and you got the jets you want and pesky Russians do there fly over and we shoot one down.. what do you think happens then? the age old dont have a weapon if you don't intend to use it rings true. I'd far rather let them harmlessly fly over.

If these threats that you are speculating about take place how long do you think Ireland will last in said scenarios?.

I think the people advocating for this increased military spending are dreaming genuinely i think its so naïve and nonsensical and short sighted.

You are utterly delusional if you believe for even a second that NATO would allow Russia to launch a full blown invasion of Ireland because we are "Not in NATO" from a strategic stand point alone they would declare on Russia as soon as they showed intention, you do realize our geographical location?

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870893#Comment_119870893

give me a scenario where Ireland is exploited as the weak back door of NATO explain to me how Russia uses this to any meaningful advantage

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870994#Comment_119870994

I'm not getting into any further debate with you on it because you're being deliberately obtuse.

Read the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces, better Military minds than you (and me) wrote it, including three former Chiefs of Defence, one Irish, one NATO and one other European neutral.

I accept the report, for the most part. If you don't, well I don't really give a ****.

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871057#Comment_119871057

I could care less what the commission say, Any one saying Ireland is in anyway shape or form under serious threat from the Russians is ridiculous. The reality of the world and the fact is Russia's army has been exposed as an absolute farce and that the west could not be safer from threat as anyone that would dare oppose it hasnt the ability to project power past there own doorstep.

But ya do continue to bang the drum of "we need massive military spending and jets because Russia"

You cant debate further with me because you simply have no answer to the facts and logic being produced its as simple as that really.

Im eagerly awaiting the petty dig aimed at me rather than the topic because your beaten otherwise, perhaps those that agree with your train of thought might back you up and you can set up an echo chamber environment where ye all reaffirm each others rightness lol

But yeah unless you can produce a scenario in which the Russians can impose there will on Ireland and physically threaten it in an meaningful sustained manner that wont be retaliated to by other powers or even preemptively stopped by other powers.. dont waste your time because your talking absolute fantasy commission or no commission.

bear1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119870690#Comment_119870690

That's some load of shite right there.

Why are we safe? We are the weakest and most exposed link in Europe.

We have the biggest maritime area to cover and yet we do not have the means to protect it.

We are in charge of a very important piece of airspace between Europe and North America and yet if anything happens we can't do anything.

Pray tell, how are we safe and how is the above acceptable to you?

And with regards to your last sentence, the same was said about Ukraine and yet here we are.

I bet if Ireland was given the aid Ukraine was given then I would imagine we'd have the same chance.

jonnybigwallet

In my opinion the Air Force should have total air superiority over the entire island and surrounding seas and islands. Similarly the Navy should be 100% in control of the maritime domain and the army on land.

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871672#Comment_119871672

Explain to me the scenario in which we are attacked by Russia or anyone for that matter give me just one realistic scenario as i said your all talking nonsense war fantasies commission included.

How are we the "most exposed" link in Europe objectively explain to me how we are militarily exposed, i counter your point with our geographical location and proximity to other western superpowers makes us nigh on invincible give me facts and examples to prove me wrong.

We aren't in charge of anything and we certainly aren't depended upon in such a manner when the US looks to this region of the world they know the UK has that dealt with, end of story Ireland falls under that umbrella because of its proximity to the UK doesn't have anything to do with the UK liking us they wouldn't allow us to be invaded/attacked out of self preservation let alone talking about what the US would do.

I would challenge anyone with the above facts commission and average person alike, logically we do not need to significantly increase our military spending. Jets for us are wants not needs.

I think the commissions report is literally laughable and just shows how delusional our military are and the over importance they place upon themselves Ireland in military terms is non existent in the grand scheme of things a literal non factor on the global stage its harsh but true.

Ironically your last sentence is exactly the reason we don't need to increase our spending because the aid and support we would receive from nations we have good ties with would be near on instant if not preemptive.

Again you cant use a fictional threat with 0.01% chance of ever happening as a reason to massively increase spending.

Im curious to know do you genuinely believe we are under a serious chance of being attacked like do you actually believe that?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871784#Comment_119871784

Well Jonny if we want to be really secure i think we should blow every bridge crossing the shannon keep the enemy bottled up

bear1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871828#Comment_119871828

Answer my points first.

All i see is someone stupidly saying we should surrender ourselves to the protection of another state.

Christ.

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871838#Comment_119871838

I addressed every one of your points.

bear1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871850#Comment_119871850

Not really, you simply answered with questions..

And if you seriously believe your answers are that we have the UK to protect us are simply mind boggling.

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871838#Comment_119871838

As i thought petty insults no substance in your retort to debate the points I've made.

"All i see is someone stupidly saying we should surrender ourselves to the protection of another state."

We are already under the protection of other states, unless you are naïve enough to believe that we have both the manpower and resources to be self sufficient in any serious 1v1 conflict or confrontation?

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871858#Comment_119871858

Right i need to establish what your beliefs are... Do you believe the reason we aren't attacked or harassed is down to the fact we have our "defense forces"? Do you believe that our geographical location sandwiched between the US & UK with having good ties with both nations is of no protection or advantage to us?

The questions highlight the flaws in what you were saying and allow you to draw your own conclusion from it i give you some bit of credit.

Mind boggling indeed the delusion which some people operate on around here... The questions highlight the flaws in what you were saying and allow you to draw your own conclusion from it i give you some bit of credit.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871132#Comment_119871132

So basically what you are saying is "Russia are not the baddies" and "ignore what the experts say, I know better".

You know where you can stick that particular "advice" komrade. Not engaging further with a Tankie.

bear1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871894#Comment_119871894

We are sandwiched between the US and the UK? News to me..

Something doesn't seem to be clicking with you, we are a sovereign nation and we need to have an army that can protect the state, that can protect the seas and can protect the skies.

Your obtuse way of thinking is the same mindset as those that say we should spend more on healthcare etc etc when they already get an immense amount of money.

Does a threat have to be there before we act? In that case, why bother going for check ups or to the mechanic, just wait for **** to go totally wrong and then react.

Why should we want another country to protect us? It's an embarrassment and it's about time the government reacts to it.

What advantage is it to us to have a good relationship with the UK? Militarily speaking.

Why should the British tax payer and the Irish tax payer fund a foreign armies intervention? We cried for independence and yet we are so keen and ok with having our "independence" protected by the same nation we wanted to be independent from.

If the UK were to help isn't a favour for us at all, they own the northern part of the country and will be far more interested in their interests than in ours.

Time for Ireland to grow a pair of balls and stop letting people like you decide how the country should be protected, or in your case not protected at all.

I suspect you'll come back with more nonsense or "petty insults" as you put it so I'm just going to ignore whatever it is you'll respond.

Have a good one

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871918#Comment_119871918

If that's what you gathered from that post its probably for the best that you don't engage further as you haven't the comprehension or capacity to engage in a meaningful debate about the actual topic and will inevitably have to resort to hurling petty insults at posters out of frustration.

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871978#Comment_119871978

Why you throwing a tantrum? the forum is for debate stop taking it so personally when someone disagrees with you, you are getting far too emotional.

Ignoring someone's response out of fear of being exposed or proven wrong is just childish.

Why should we be doomsday preppers and spend vast swats of money on high military spending out of nothing but sheer paranoia and ego of being able to protect ourselves, the UK relies on the US and NATO for back up in conflicts but here we are too good for help apparently! lol

But its not help though because here's the truth the UK will never ever let a power take Ireland for obvious reasons and neither will the US you don't have to like that but its just reality, there will never be a day where Russia will invade Ireland and UK wont declare war on them immediately.

Is it clear now? can you see from a military strategic stand point why Ireland is near on Invincible? and thus we actually really don't need an advanced military.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871918#Comment_119871918

Tankie, or just a basic Troll, surprised people have bothered to engage the poster so much at this point.

Nighttime22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872343#Comment_119872343

They have engaged and failed to surmount the facts and logic presented to them and like yourself have reverted to petty insults and the safety of the clique you seem to have going in here utter war fantasy echo chamber for the delusional.

If you are not willing to have discussion about the topic or entertain fact based counter arguments just leave the thread or perhaps a mod could remove you.

Your attempt to label anyone that disagrees with you a troll is a pathetic attempt to discredit.

Nighttime22

So here we are trying to waste €300 million for a relatively small squadron of 10 aircraft, made up of potentially second hand, or inferior outdated aircraft, to try and keep up with the cutting edge, brand new, vastly superior super jets of a superpower, who have been doing this for decades, talk about an absolute money pit.. this is what's being put forward by the leadership based on a kneejerky paranoid reaction that russia is out to get us lol

roadmaster

You are a little shy on your pricing there. The deal the Michael Martin did with the French Government was 1.5 Billion inculding Spares and training for the 15 Rafales to be based at cork airport

jonnybigwallet

Excellent! If only it were true!

roadmaster

Oh it is true sure it was in the echo

Dohvolle

If we had gone with the 2nd hand ones it would only have cost us under a Bil.

Nighttime22

Worse again

Gonna be great when we get a few outdated second hand banger's that'll definitely put the fear of god into the Russians..

Between that now and the genius level planning by the defense forces i feel safer already.

Whats next? should we get a few ICBM's since the auld Russians flirted with the idea of detonating an underwater nuke or worse cutting off the internet! gotta be ready to respond to all threats isnt that right folks lmfao

bear1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119873397#Comment_119873397

Literally nothing online about this.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119874161#Comment_119874161

He is kidding.

But as with all humour from the Rebel County, its not funny.

Well, except Reggie. I like Reggie.