Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596288#Comment_120596288

A Harrier is twice as fast as a PC9. Still too slow. But it's not in anyway similar to a PC9. PC9 is slower than spitfire.

jonnybigwallet

That's true. But would be grand for buzzin Jonny Russians ships etc.

RavenP

@Flinty997 "A Harrier is twice as fast as a PC9. Still too slow. But it's not in anyway similar to a PC9. PC9 is slower than spitfire." Actually the difference in capability in the intercept role is not that great. For a start the PC( can sustain its 370MPH longer than the Harrier can sustain 600MPH. Also the interceptor weaponry of the harrier, sidwinders and Aim120s, well PC9 can take sidewinders although no one uses it in an intercept role. The wider point though still stands, from an intercept point of view Harriers would give Ireland very little extra capability beyond what it already has. And then there are all the other problems with a very old platform.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596457#Comment_120596457

RAF never had a version that carried the 120s. Already made the point its unsuitable for Ireland.

sparky42

Even Sky have picked up the story:

https://news.sky.com/story/irish-ministers-under-pressure-to-clarify-secret-deal-for-raf-to-defend-irelands-airspace-in-an-emergency-12879084

jonnybigwallet

Good article that IMO!

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596650#Comment_120596650

Its pretty much a rehash of the Journal one I think, not the first time that reporter has repackaged a story from Irish news for Sky News.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596699#Comment_120596699

Yep but on the other hand it'll be outside pressure as much as anything that will (hopefully) cause change

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597282#Comment_120597282

Totally agree with, lets be honest it was always likely to be someone say "cop the feck on lads" to even start things, that or something catastrophic that has everyone pointing fingers (lets hope it doesn't come to that), I wonder if the Brits had been charging us noticeable amounts of money for the coverage since the 1950's would that have changed things?

delusiondestroyer

All this air policing the jets may aswell be allocated to An Gardai, what are they gonna do fly up there and give them penalty points is it?

I can see it now Irish jets race to intercept a Russian plane...

Irish Pilot : *Very Official spiel about leaving our airspace...*

Russian Pilot : No... *Continues Course*

Due to having no defence against long range missiles and the fact that Russia could respond by striking many irish cities with heavy strikes in retaliation which ireland would be defenseless against. Along with the military installations that our limited fighters operate out of leaving us at war and completely at there mercy with our 10-15 jets rendered useless.

Its all well and good patriotically shooting down a Russian Plane until it comes time to deal with the consequence's, it would be a real delusion meets reality moment for alot on here and the defence forces experts.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120595723#Comment_120595723

As I said decades on decades without an incident over Irish sky's is what gives me confidence, what a job has been done to keep our airspace safe.

But of course you and your buddies "legimate" concerns completely ignore this glaring fact.

It just shatters this myth of urgent need for jets because of security. We have been secure for decades before you and your buddies got the brainwaves to try and acquire jets.

And it's not by chance either our decades apon decades of safety.

Your main problem and those that follow your logic is that you believe you are savy and clever and in the know because you read articles about it and watch you tube vids on it...reality couldn't be further from the truth. Ye havent a clue debating the type of jet to buy as if you know what your talking about ye would laughed out of the room!

Off to the airshows with ye 🤣🤣 don't forget the aviator glasses and leather jacket. 🤣🤣

Larbre34

You're ignoring the very obviously changed security and defence situation in Europe and I've no idea why.

I mean its decades and decades since a Heinkel bomber last dropped a bomb randomly on the south of England, but that statement in isolation is as daft as it is useless. But it does seem to be the level of your logic, that everything stays the same for generations.

Your wilful obtuseness just makes you sound mental. And as you seem to be able to string a sentence together, I must assume you're not actually soft in the head and must be a troll and am done engaging with with you.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599371#Comment_120599371

You did well to stay going this long. I've ignored him/her since their first nonsense post on this thread. Every so often we have the same idiots wade in here, ignore the other 169 pages where their "point" (if they have one) has been repeatedly talked through and dismissed, yet they still think they are the first to come up with it.

Save your energy.

Flinty997

That journal piece seem to have widely circulated. Its hit a number of sites I follow.

Dohvolle

This has been brewing for a while now. Up to now it wasn't really in the mainstream, but seeing it on sky news makes it hard to pass off as just the Defence industry trying to make a sale.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120596045#Comment_120596045

If I may inquire, how do you square your position with that of the government's own commission which says that maintaining the current situation is... ill-advised?

I have no doubt that the government is extremely displeased with this conclusion, as it is evident from several decades of gross underfunding that the government doesn't like the idea of spending more money on defense, but that doesn't deny the result (As discussed on this thread. https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058232161/df-commission-report/p1 ), and that was before the current fighting in Ukraine kicked off.

It's worth observing that the government's position has never changed, it has simply never attempted to enact its own position. To quote the paper, "there is a disconnect between stated policy and the actual current resources and capabilities of the Defence Force"

Flinty997

I wonder did Leo talk about it with the  Air Commodore-in-Chief of the RAF when he met him recently.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600027#Comment_120600027

The Express has it now, anyone want to guess how the comment section is going.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120599371#Comment_120599371

Well you obviously aren't very well schooled in critical thinking, you constantly reference European security as a reason for your proposed knee jerk reaction. Mainland Europe security is all but irrelevant to us. We are on an island at the far side of the conflict Incase you had not noticed.

Let us have a look at what logistics it would take for an attack on Ireland.

I will ignore your selective ignorance and reference Russians inability to project power beyond its own door step. (Doesn't bode well for your argument if the deathly threat you are basing it on is completely and utterly incompetent)

So let's take Russia seeing as there current actions makes them probably the most realistic example.

So they have to cross Europe, they have to cross thru UK territory and they have to attack a small island with little to no strategic value as they would not be able to 1 even get there without facing serval global military powers who thru there own self preservation would simply not allow them to attack Ireland for very obvious reasons.

But you being who you are and having the blinkers on completely to reality.

The UK would not allow Russians to attack Ireland. They would not want a hostile force having a foothold on there doorstep. It's that simple it's basic military strategy.

Look at the help Ukraine recieved from the UK and US now imagine the help Ireland would receive being a neutral country and having extremely good and strong ties with the US and to an extent the UK.

Is it starting to make sense can you see how tall an order it would be to attack Ireland in any meaningful fashion? At face value Ireland seem unsecure in reality... If the **** hits the fan we would have the immediate support of the most powerful militaries in the world.

Unless you want to argue that the US would allow Ireland to be attacked ?.

Now you LL probably disagree with all this anyway as your just that type of person but that's irrelevant because it's simply the reality of situation.

delusiondestroyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600155#Comment_120600155

Well that commission obviously is going to go to bat for the defence forces and try get as much funding as possible that's understandable.

I think where the investment falls flat is that Ireland can't be secure as a standalone nation from a military perspective.Funding is only half the job and is pointless really without entering a military alliance.

Like it's a fair question to ask if we send up our fighter jets to a Russian plane and that plane doesn't comply and is shot down.. what's the plan after that ?

Cross our fingers and hope they don't attack? Now that's just one hypothetical example but can you see the problem?

We have no depth to our security no big stick if you will like NATO to wave at the Russians if you will, especially being a non aligned nation.

Basically if we're going to to trouble of getting fighter jets we may aswell finish the job join NATO abandon our neutrality and have a full fledged military.

Coddin ourselves with jets and policing on its own is a waste of money.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600244#Comment_120600244

Oh bejaysus..

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600244#Comment_120600244

Without reading it I'd say it's a bit UKIP Gammon DUP Priti Patel Potato Guinness Riverdance lazy feckless Irish Guinness Paisley the IRA Pixie Heads Poppy McClean UVF Brexit Barnier Varadkar Londonderry?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600837#Comment_120600837

Pretty much yeah. Surprised the Torygraph hasn’t run with it yet tbh.

Larbre34

It will, once one of their most obnoxious jingoistic columnists have put their stamp on it as commentary rather than news

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597574#Comment_120597574

That's not how it works at all. Interceptor flys along side path of R bomber and forces it to change course. At worst fires a few cannon shells in front of it to drive home the message. Launch missles at Irish cities! no way. What type of long range missiles did you think they would use? Nuclear hardly. Even non nuclear launched from Subs would probably be interpreted as a possible first strike attack on the UK and force them to respond immediately.

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600837#Comment_120600837

Just hopped over there for a second, your interpretation is a fair bit more coherent than the stuff that I've seen.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to wash out my eyes with bleach and scrape my brain clean with a rusty wire brush...

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600880#Comment_120600880

I think you are missing we are geographically impossible to attack with anything. The country identifies as 'unreachable' and 'invulnerable'.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600935#Comment_120600935

That's just not true, sadly. Although unlikely a submarine could launch cruise missiles at us from the Atlantic or a Long range bomber.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600880#Comment_120600880

What makes me laugh about this “point” is the idea that somehow we are suggesting something unique, nations in and out of military alliances have been doing this kind of interception for decades and yet nobody has nuked anyone, but somehow the idea of us doing means Russia will bomb us…

Its laughable.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600988#Comment_120600988

True. Turkey even shot down a russian bomber a few years ago and it's not at war.