Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Markcheese

So start them on the PlayStations then ....

As an aside ,is there a good reason for basing any new jets and their crews ( I know pie in the sky ) in baldonnel?
As opposed to somewhere like Shannon ? Where a lot of facilities already exist , there are less neighbours to piss off , and your salary would go a lot further ..

jonnybigwallet

KAI FA50 in various cofigs is fit for purpose and not too pricey.
We're not about to declare war on Russia or NATO. Work out the numbers and its affordable. By it in 3 tranches and it'll fly.
Pun intended.

Leonidas BL

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

KAI FA50 in various cofigs is fit for purpose and not too pricey.
We're not about to declare war on Russia or NATO. Work out the numbers and its affordable. By it in 3 tranches and it'll fly.
Pun intended.

And for the 500th time its range is too short!!!

sparky42

Markcheese wrote: »

So start them on the PlayStations then ....

As an aside ,is there a good reason for basing any new jets and their crews ( I know pie in the sky ) in baldonnel?
As opposed to somewhere like Shannon ? Where a lot of facilities already exist , there are less neighbours to piss off , and your salary would go a lot further ..

Institutional inertia?

Psychlops

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Well aware it's retired - that's why it could be gotten - because nobody is using it. Do you even read the post I had up? Why else would I suggest such an aircraft? I've already said it would be out of date.

I reckon you suggested it because you have no clue, It can not be gotten it is no longer produced or available anywhere. If you want to prepare pilots then start them along the lines of the RAF with a capable aircraft like their Hawk T2 which is an advanced Jet trainer & used by the RAF for intercept training & can be fitted with Sidewinder & or ASRAAM. In fact the Viggens remaining are very un-flyable as they are museum pieces on display & a tiny handful are flying.

jonnybigwallet

Good point!

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Psychlops wrote: »

I reckon you suggested it because you have no clue, It can not be gotten it is no longer produced or available anywhere. If you want to prepare pilots then start them along the lines of the RAF with a capable aircraft like their Hawk T2 which is an advanced Jet trainer & used by the RAF for intercept training & can be fitted with Sidewinder & or ASRAAM. In fact the Viggens remaining are very un-flyable as they are museum pieces on display & a tiny handful are flying.

I agree with you in the jet trainers, that’s what I suggested in the first paragraph of the post and that’s what I would do first of all. Given how badly the defences forces are starved for funding its no shame to look at all options that might save money and consider aircraft that are retired by other forces, be they Viggens or F-4s or whatever, to serve as a stopgap and to build up experience and technical knowhow.

I might be well wrong on the Viggen but that overall approach of a gradual introduction towards the newest generation aircraft isn’t terrible.

sparky42

Psychlops wrote: »

I reckon you suggested it because you have no clue, It can not be gotten it is no longer produced or available anywhere. If you want to prepare pilots then start them along the lines of the RAF with a capable aircraft like their Hawk T2 which is an advanced Jet trainer & used by the RAF for intercept training & can be fitted with Sidewinder & or ASRAAM. In fact the Viggens remaining are very un-flyable as they are museum pieces on display & a tiny handful are flying.

Given our limited funding, why spend the money on setting up an internal training system when we literally have one right next door that could provide all the institutional knowledge in order to move towards some form of air defence?

Psychlops

Steyr 556 wrote: »

I might be well wrong on the Viggen but that overall approach of a gradual introduction towards the newest generation aircraft isn’t terrible.

Your just wrong. Now F4's? Airframes that are coming to or past end of life & so few in numbers it is not worth considering.

sparky42

Psychlops wrote: »

Your just wrong. Now F4's? Airframes that are coming to or past end of life & so few in numbers it is not worth considering.

That might have been due to me pointing out that at least they had a larger user base than the Viggen, but yeah 70 year old designs are not any viable route forward for us even if there was the political will to develop anything.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why would you assume that? it would be very accomodating of the unknown aircraft to overfly baldonnel.

What? That makes no sense.

The unknown aircraft is coming from the Atlantic, North, South or East towards Ireland.

Direction is towards us regardless of which airport you are using.

sparky42

sparky42 wrote: »

Stick some missiles or fuel tanks on them and how quickly can they respond to any interception demand?

I'm not talking about taking on the world here.

The yac130 can be preloaded and get airborne with enough fuel to reach the edges of our airspace.

Of course, it's not a f35 or eurofighter, etc but at a fraction of there costs and a lot closer to the pc9 cost. Go even closer to the pc9 and get the l139 alca which is still being produced and used by a number of smaller Nations.

tuxy

Since it's clear neather FF or FG have a desire to upgrade the air corps.

Would we be counting on SF having a policy on providing the funding for this? They have already promised so much to so many different areas, I'm not sure this one would be high on their list either.

jonnybigwallet

That suggestion re the ALCA L139 is a new one on me. Had a look at the spec sheet. It's certainly pretty cheap...but subsonic so maybe a bit limited for interception.

sparky42

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I'm not talking about taking on the world here.

The yac130 can be preloaded and get airborne with enough fuel to reach the edges of our airspace.

Of course, it's not a f35 or eurofighter, etc but at a fraction of there costs and a lot closer to the pc9 cost. Go even closer to the pc9 and get the l139 alca which is still being produced and used by a number of smaller Nations.

And how much fuel will said aircraft have left once they've got up to airliner cruising height with a combat load after flying from Baldonnel to said interception?

sparky42

tuxy wrote: »

Since it's clear neather FF or FG have a desire to upgrade the air corps.

Would we be counting on SF having a policy on providing the funding for this? They have already promised so much to so many different areas, I'm not sure this one would be high on their list either.

SF? The party that still can't even call the state it's Name? Yeah good luck on them providing massive investments into the DF.

Lord Fairlord

sparky42 wrote: »

And how much fuel will said aircraft have left once they've got up to airliner cruising height with a combat load after flying from Baldonnel to said interception?

Geographically, basing fighter jets (of whatever kind we hypothetically get) out in somewhere like Knock Airport, if possible, would make more sense than Baldonnel imo.

sparky42

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

Geographically, basing fighter jets (of whatever kind we hypothetically get) out in somewhere like Knock Airport, if possible, would make more sense than Baldonnel imo.

Hell the CASA's should be based out west as well really, but to do that you've got the costs of getting the AC moved out and most likely have to increase security at said airport, also I wouldn't pick Knock, not exactly a hive of social activity, maybe Galway would be better?

Lord Fairlord

sparky42 wrote: »

Hell the CASA's should be based out west as well really, but to do that you've got the costs of getting the AC moved out and most likely have to increase security at said airport, also I wouldn't pick Knock, not exactly a hive of social activity, maybe Galway would be better?

As a layman, I'd have thought an area that was not a hive of social activity to be better, for noise and security reasons for example.

Psychlops

sparky42 wrote: »

Hell the CASA's should be based out west as well really, but to do that you've got the costs of getting the AC moved out and most likely have to increase security at said airport, also I wouldn't pick Knock, not exactly a hive of social activity, maybe Galway would be better?

Shannon.

Psychlops

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

As a layman, I'd have thought an area that was not a hive of social activity to be better, for noise and security reasons for example.

Casa's arent loud by any means.

Lord Fairlord

Psychlops wrote: »

Casa's arent loud by any means.

I meant if we acquired fighter jets.

Markcheese

Well the existing air Corp is entirely based in baldonnal, so moving 2 planes ,crews and support (and families) would be a major pain ,
But if there was an entirely new major programme then it'd make sense to base it west , and and recruit for that .. ( there would have to be some existing staff move west ,but proportionately small , )

tuxy

sparky42 wrote: »

SF? The party that still can't even call the state it's Name? Yeah good luck on them providing massive investments into the DF.

I only mentioned SF because you can be sure at this stage FF and FG will not provide funding.

What political party do posters on her think may come true on this?

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Don't we have to increase defending (regardless of who forms the government) under PESCO? I know Sinn Fein were against joining PESCO while FF/FG were in favour.

sparky42

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Don't we have to increase defending (regardless of who forms the government) under PESCO? I know Sinn Fein were against joining PESCO while FF/FG were in favour.

No, no we don't.

sparky42

tuxy wrote: »

I only mentioned SF because you can be sure at this stage FF and FG will not provide funding.

What political party do posters on her think may come true on this?

None of them.

tuxy

sparky42 wrote: »

None of them.

So no figher jet for a few decades at the earliest?

sparky42

tuxy wrote: »

So no figher jet for a few decades at the earliest?

Not unless an exterior event somehow forces a change, but given past such events it's most likely to be ignored. There's no public will to spend anything on the DF so politicians won't.

tuxy

What if we told them the posters on boards.ie had found the perfect jet available at a resonable price?