Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

punchdrunk

the problem is you can hardly now uproot 800 odd people and their families and force them to move!
when you joining say, the RAF it's a given that you'll spend a few years stationed abroad or operating from a carrier or whatever- we've never had that culture in the DF, even overseas duty is voluntary. relocating the air corps forcibly would I imagine trigger a mass exodus of experience by those who had done their time and have families settled in Dublin.

The only way to implement such a regime change would be to start small, on a volunteer basis and then create that new culture as recruits sign up knowing that they can be stationed anywhere.

roadmaster

Like you say start small , Offer relocation packages and do it over 5/10 year period. Besides i am sure there is plenty of young blood on the western seaboard and midlands that would love to join. With the motorway network nearly complete Shannon is not far from anywhere now. You could also set up the same way they have 112 setup in Athlone with the crews essentially doing shifts and after a few days go back to the east coast where ever there based

donvito99

Larbre34 wrote: »

None of it is absurd at all.

If it is absurd, as you claim, then explain why so many other nations, including neutral and non-aligned European states with a similar profile to Ireland, have invested at least to some degree in jet fighter capability?

Are their motivations absurd?

Sweden narrowly avoided invasion in WW2. It sat underneath the putative flight path of Russian bombers during the Cold War. It is 200km from Kaliningrad.

Austria's Typhoon experience has been a disaster. Switerland's QRA is 9 to 5 and famously was not available to intercept a hijacked Ethiopian jet.

All three countries have substantial defence industries.

We don't have the industry, history or present need for their fleets of combat aircraft.

Larbre34

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Could go with the half way house option of some nice advanced jet trainers like a BAE Hawk, Aermacchi M-345 or even the rather nice Yakovlev Yak-130 :pac:

They still don't have the intercept speed to do the job. Those types would be an unnecessary expense for little extra capability over the PC-9s

Larbre34

donvito99 wrote: »

Sweden narrowly avoided invasion in WW2. It sat underneath the putative flight path of Russian bombers during the Cold War. It is 200km from Kaliningrad.

Austria's Typhoon experience has been a disaster. Switerland's QRA is 9 to 5 and famously was not available to intercept a hijacked Ethiopian jet.

All three countries have substantial defence industries.

We don't have the industry, history or present need for their fleets of combat aircraft.

One squadron. Nobody is talking about fleets.

Hungary and the Czechs have made a great success of their Gripen lease operations.

The Swiss have it as a cornerstone of their defence policy to provide 24/7 QRA with their F-18s by the end of this year. They had lined up a deal for a few dozen Gripens but put it to a referendum, as they do, and it was rejected.

I'd welcome a similar referendum here on the people's attitudes to national defence, following the outcome of the Commission on Defence promised in the Programme for Government.

But again, the central European nations are more protected by virtue of being in the middle of the continent and the surrounding air defence nets of big NATO members. We don't have that, or at least we cannot and should not count on Britain in the long term.

The Austrian Typhoon acquisition absolutely was a cluster-eff from beginning to end, but that was down to the eye-watering inefficiency of that type and massive political mismanagement. As a matter of fact, it is the Austrian Govts intention to replace the type asap with, guess what, Gripens or F-16s!

tjhook

Larbre34 wrote: »

We don't have that, or at least we cannot and should not count on Britain in the long term.

We probably can count on Britain in the long term - they have little choice but to fill the gap that we won't.

But the status quo is that we outsource the security of the country to the RAF. Anybody supporting this would be hypocritical to grumble about the British military. They can't have it both ways.

punchdrunk

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'd welcome a similar referendum here on the people's attitudes to national defence, following the outcome of the Commission on Defence promised in the Programme for Government.

A referendum would be a ****show- Irish people are mostly clueless about defence!

roadmaster

tjhook wrote: »

We probably can count on Britain in the long term - they have little choice but to fill the gap that we won't.

But the status quo is that we outsource the security of the country to the RAF. Anybody supporting this would be hypocritical to grumble about the British military. They can't have it both ways.

I think you count on the UK for nothing the way there going. They are currently on disputes with China and Russia also this little thing called Brexit. At the moment instead of being a responsible country they are the stereotype drunk brit a 2am in costa del sol

roadmaster

Something to be wary about when buying fighter jets

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/eurofighter-set-for-rough-ride-in-austria-updated-02701/

sparky42

roadmaster wrote: »

Something to be wary about when buying fighter jets

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/eurofighter-set-for-rough-ride-in-austria-updated-02701/

There's plenty of blame to go round for that debacle I think, but it's a fair point.

Larbre34

Ah look, the Austrian debacle is a well known sh1tshow, the worst of the worst political and project management and a money pit of an aircraft to boot.

The Czech and Hungarian Gripen leases are however great successes.

roadmaster

so it settled were getting a squadron of grippens to be based at Air Station Shannon

Leonidas BL

roadmaster wrote: »

so it settled were getting a squadron of grippens to be based at Air Station Shannon

Sounds good to me

Only thing now is, C/D or E/F model???

satguy

We don't need Fighter Jets,, What we need is to finish building our children's hospital, extend our Luas system, and top of the things we need to do,, is to build more homes.

So what we can do is build houses on the Baldonnel site, and mothball the rusting junk that is sitting on that very nice and well placed plot of land.

roadmaster

satguy wrote: »

We don't need Fighter Jets,, What we need is to finish building our children's hospital, extend our Luas system, and top of the things we need to do,, is to build more homes.

So what we can do is build houses on the Baldonnel site, and mothball the rusting junk that is sitting on that very nice and well placed plot of land.

what junk?

Leonidas BL

satguy wrote: »

We don't need Fighter Jets,, What we need is to finish building our children's hospital, extend our Luas system, and top of the things we need to do,, is to build more homes.

So what we can do is build houses on the Baldonnel site, and mothball the rusting junk that is sitting on that very nice and well placed plot of land.

Go away please

satguy

Leonidas BL wrote: »

Go away please

This is an online forum,, we talk about stuff here.

The whole country is going down the toilet,, and some want to spend good money on Fighter Jets .

sparky42

satguy wrote: »

This is an online forum,, we talk about stuff here.

The whole country is going down the toilet,, and some want to spend good money on Fighter Jets .

The State spent four times by percentage than we do now in far far more economically difficult times, it's more than possible for a nation to do more than one thing at a time. And given the budgets for the areas you are complaining about dwarf the DF budget, maybe go complain in those threads about how the monies are spent.

Larbre34

satguy wrote: »

This is an online forum,, we talk about stuff here.

The whole country is going down the toilet,, and some want to spend good money on Fighter Jets .

Yeah but it isn't going down the toilet. Covid will be overcome and despite all the challenges we'll come out of Brexit as the main anglophone market within the EU and boom again!

Why not organise a tour of Casement for yourself and get an education.

satguy

We have some Tom Cruise and Top Gun fans in the house tonight.

Our trains and rolling stock need upgrading, our roads need potholes fixed. Add all that to the list above.

So just say No, to Fighter Jets.

sparky42

satguy wrote: »

We have some Tom Cruise and Top Gun fans in the house tonight.

Our trains and rolling stock need upgrading, our roads need potholes fixed. Add all that to the list above.

So just say No, to Fighter Jets.

And all of which are already well more funded than the DF and are already in hand (in case you missed it, the rolling stock is already under order and will come when it's made, while the Road network is getting as much as possible despite the Greens), you could take the entire DF budget pay and pensions included and it wouldn't make a fecking difference to your points.

Larbre34

Mental health is underfunded too, now that I think of it.

tjhook

satguy wrote: »

We have some Tom Cruise and Top Gun fans in the house tonight.

Our trains and rolling stock need upgrading, our roads need potholes fixed. Add all that to the list above.

So just say No, to Fighter Jets.

Ok, so anybody with a different opinion is a Top Gun fan.


What's your alternative? Outsource to the RAF and hope they'll continue to oblige? I suppose we could do without a military altogether if we had a few battalions of the Royal Marines here too. That would free up even more cash for the semi-states.

roadmaster

I see on the air corps Facebook page a picture of the pc9s prior to a fly over for the national day of commemoration. I noticed they had the rocket pods attached I wonder was someone considering a coup de'ta

satguy

satguy wrote: »

We have some Tom Cruise and Top Gun fans in the house tonight.

Our trains and rolling stock need upgrading, our roads need potholes fixed. Add all that to the list above.

So just say No, to Fighter Jets.

Do you realise that spending tax money in a multitude of areas is good business? Surrendering the entire lot in one area is a very bad idea. You need to employ people across many, many sectors.

Read up on the construction industry boom and bust

Larbre34

roadmaster wrote: »

I see on the air corps Facebook page a picture of the pc9s prior to a fly over for the national day of commemoration. I noticed they had the rocket pods attached I wonder was someone considering a coup de'ta

I spotted that as the formation flew over on the telly coverage, struck me as pretty strange!

Leonidas BL

https://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2020/07/13/irelands-air-force-badly-needs-fighter-jets/#7f198f346c32

I felt shame reading this

nelly17

Would they be for the coloured smoke? - complete passer by here I have no idea

edit:the rocket pods I mean

sparky42

Leonidas BL wrote: »

https://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2020/07/13/irelands-air-force-badly-needs-fighter-jets/#7f198f346c32

I felt shame reading this


Thing is, it's still based off a crazy interpretation of the Defence Equipment document, everyone seems to be jumping to the conclusion that this is something actively being looked at rather than just a nod to the White Paper.

roadmaster

sparky42 wrote: »

Thing is, it's still based off a crazy interpretation of the Defence Equipment document, everyone seems to be jumping to the conclusion that this is something actively being looked at rather than just a nod to the White Paper.

Dont be a party pooper with your facts!