Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

Gary kk

On a side note guessing it's to do with extra work but they could have a 2 tier system since it's cheap. 8 Saab G and 12 fa 50. Just a thought please don't railroad me.

Edit I joking railroad away

Larbre34

Excellent piece.

I'd recommend anyone find it and read it, even if it's just to look at the graphic map to understand the sheer size of area we have responsibility for, without any means to police it.

I'm am bemused by the 40 Gripens option though, that quite the psychological trick the IAA are trying to pull!

sparky42

Larbre34 wrote: »

Excellent piece.

I'd recommend anyone find it and read it, even if it's just to look at the graphic map to understand the sheer size of area we have responsibility for, without any means to police it.

I'm am bemused by the 40 Gripens option though, that quite the psychological trick the IAA are trying to pull!

Yeah the 40 Gripens is someone trying to kill off the idea, there’s zero need for such a large number, hell that’s only 20 less than Finland who certainly aren’t designing their buy with an eye towards fighting Russia directly…

Larbre34

I hope the likes of Ralph James and Kevin Byrne are making their own informed submissions, vis-a-vis the single Squadron of Gripens, even if only to suggest to lay people that there are far more than 2 or 3 ways to skin a cat.

Gary kk

Yeah one squadron would be much easier on the budget. Something some people have no respect for.

sparky42

Gary kk wrote: »

Yeah one squadron would be much easier on the budget. Something some people have no respect for.

Thing is “Squadron” can vary from nation to nation as to what numbers are actually in it. 12 if that’s what you mean leaves it extremely tight for any attrition losses (and there will be some) or the unexpected downtime that may occur messing up all the other flight times needed.

Gary kk

Thank you

That's kinda why I wondered about a tier system like the US were the F35 and F22 are top whilefewer in number than the F16. But F16 is still the main stay. Now I know they are developing a replacement for F16.

It's just a thought.

No I don't mean we should buy an F35 even do they are probably the best out there.

It's kinda why I asking would there be a role for PC9 if the the government final buy something of value to air policing

Larbre34

There is literally no parallel to be drawn with the United States. On any military level. We're doing well to bench mark against Austria, Switzerland, Portugal, Czechia, New Zealand.

The PC-9 has a role for any ground based event requiring a high level of security, perhaps a senior VIP from overseas, or an issue along the border. To be of any use in the air, it would need to already in the air in the vicinity of whatever aircraft was of concern. That other aircraft would need to be slow and unarmed. So no, not really.

sparky42

Gary kk wrote: »

Thank you

That's kinda why I wondered about a tier system like the US were the F35 and F22 are top whilefewer in number than the F16. But F16 is still the main stay. Now I know they are developing a replacement for F16.

It's just a thought.

No I don't mean we should buy an F35 even do they are probably the best out there.

It's kinda why I asking would there be a role for PC9 if the the government final buy something of value to air policing

The US make up is complicated. The 22 was to replace the F 15s as the main air to air fighter, however post Cold War, pre the Rise in China, there wasn’t really any air to air threat so the political will for them wasn’t there, leading to them being cut to the sub 200. Now with the rise in China’s threat the US is short air to air, hence the new F15s being bought that are basically missile carriers to increase their combat power.

The F35 was to be the replacement for the F16 class, but because they decided to try and make a 1 size fits all for both the Air Force, navy and marines it’s turned out to be more expensive and complicated than intended, hence why there’s questions about whether or not the original order numbers can be bought, hence some suggesting new block Vipers instead.

Heraldoffreeent

Larbre34 wrote: »

Excellent piece.

I'd recommend anyone find it and read it, even if it's just to look at the graphic map to understand the sheer size of area we have responsibility for, without any means to police it.

I'm am bemused by the 40 Gripens option though, that quite the psychological trick the IAA are trying to pull!

Ask for 40, get 20, Good days work.

sparky42

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

Ask for 40, get 20, Good days work.

Ask for 40, the DOD happily repeats the sticker price over and over, suggestion dies in the desk drawer where every other proposal has gone before…

sparky42

Interesting in that article to see that information on primary radar systems has already been gathered a few years ago, wonder what systems the suppliers were putting forward where?

Larbre34

sparky42 wrote: »

Ask for 40, the DOD happily repeats the sticker price over and over, suggestion dies in the desk drawer where every other proposal has gone before…

Simon Coveney is interesting in all this.

He has himself in recent times acknowledged the need for the primary radar. He also set up the Commission and as we've seen, he is encouraging the unvarnished truth for the Government to have to deal with.

My guess is, he is already keenly aware of what is needed in the 3 DF services and he has built his own Trojan horses to blow open the conversation and make this Government and this Dáil sit up and take notice of the whole thing.

sparky42

Larbre34 wrote: »

Simon Coveney is interesting in all this.

He has himself in recent times acknowledged the need for the primary radar. He also set up the Commission and as we've seen, he is encouraging the unvarnished truth for the Government to have to deal with.

My guess is, he is already keenly aware of what is needed in the 3 DF services and he has built his own Trojan horses to blow open the conversation and make this Government and this Dáil sit up and take notice of the whole thing.

Assuming that he keeps the portfolio of course… The Commission is due to report at the end of the year isn’t it, but then you get into the change from FF to FG, first you have to wonder will the change over keep the coalition stable? Then does Coveney keep it both portfolios?

Even if that happens, you are talking about plenty of time of talks after the report (assuming it’s not ignored), how long do you think the coalition will hold?

Sgt. Bilko 09

Larbre34 wrote: »

Simon Coveney is interesting in all this.

He has himself in recent times acknowledged the need for the primary radar. He also set up the Commission and as we've seen, he is encouraging the unvarnished truth for the Government to have to deal with.

My guess is, he is already keenly aware of what is needed in the 3 DF services and he has built his own Trojan horses to blow open the conversation and make this Government and this Dáil sit up and take notice of the whole thing.

If I remember correctly (and I stand to be corrected) but about 9 years ago did the Czech government/company offer 2 L-39s for free with a cheap radar system on the promise that the IAC would or more aircraft. This was some time ago times have changed back then I think smith was Minister for Defence but he was “ah be grand sure” type of guy.

I’m glad this is now getting the attention it deserves.

sparky42

Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »

If I remember correctly (and I stand to be corrected) but about 9 years ago did the Czech government/company offer 2 L-39s for free with a cheap radar system on the promise that the IAC would or more aircraft. This was some time ago times have changed back then I think smith was Minister for Defence but he was “ah be grand sure” type of guy.

I’m glad this is now getting the attention it deserves.

Was it then? Thought the Czech offer was a post 9/11 era thing? You have to wonder if the U.K. had put their foot down then about covering Ireland would Bertie spend the cash for something?

Sgt. Bilko 09

sparky42 wrote: »

Was it then? Thought the Czech offer was a post 9/11 era thing? You have to wonder if the U.K. had put their foot down then about covering Ireland would Bertie spend the cash for something?

On the money there man, that’s the story I was reading, something to with 9/11 that’s why it was offered. IMO I reckon he had more envelopes that An Post in this regard, there is noway something way any other nation would turn that down.
A lot of solutions hand to them on a plate and it was batted away.

sparky42

Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »

On the money there man, that’s the story I was reading, something to with 9/11 that’s why it was offered. IMO I reckon he had more envelopes that An Post in this regard, there is noway something way any other nation would turn that down.
A lot of solutions hand to them on a plate and it was batted away.

Ah but we went out and bought some surplus Bofors 40mm, sure what more could we do… When you think that the AC had been pushing for more capabilities just before 9/11 (including talking about getting a C130), it’s sad to see how little they actually got since then.

Sgt. Bilko 09

sparky42 wrote: »

Ah but we went out and bought some surplus Bofors 40mm, sure what more could we do… When you think that the AC had been pushing for more capabilities just before 9/11 (including talking about getting a C130), it’s sad to see how little they actually got since then.

Very true, it’s horrendous how bad it is has been allowed to get. When it out it’s perspective we have to hitch a lift home if our tour is over and leasing an aircraft is not available.
We have asked for another nation to defend us from airspace intrusions. It’s laughable man…

Larbre34

Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »

On the money there man, that’s the story I was reading, something to with 9/11 that’s why it was offered. IMO I reckon he had more envelopes that An Post in this regard, there is noway something way any other nation would turn that down.
A lot of solutions hand to them on a plate and it was batted away.

That wasn't a solution.

Put yourself in the position of the Government of the time. We get two jets and a patchy radar. That's impressive to the lay person who knows no better. That raises expectations. Then some incident arises, our crappy radar and two subsonic jets miss the whole show and its shown up for the fiasco it is. Or one jet is in the maintenance shed and the other gets a warning light on roll-out and doesn't get off the ground. That's politically toxic stuff.

It was turned down for that reason along with the unacceptable and probably illegal situation where we would have been bound to buy more planes from Aero Vodochey without a proper competition had we taken the deal.

sparky42

Larbre34 wrote: »

That wasn't a solution.

Put yourself in the position of the Government of the time. We get two jets and a patchy radar. That's impressive to the lay person who knows no better. That raises expectations. Then some incident arises, our crappy radar and two subsonic jets miss the whole show and its shown up for the fiasco it is. Or one jet is in the maintenance shed and the other gets a warning light on roll-out and doesn't get off the ground. That's politically toxic stuff.

It was turned down for that reason along with the unacceptable and probably illegal situation where we would have been bound to buy more planes from Aero Vodochey without a proper competition had we taken the deal.

You aren’t wrong about the issues, but there was an opportunity at that point to make changes to the DF, it was only a few years before we were still over 1% on defence, the argument could have been made that the global situation was becoming more relevant to Ireland. Instead we had a pre 9/11 WP that basically declared that the global situation was fine and we didn’t have any worries and kept that for a decade.

Gary kk

Wasn't that around the time of Willie O'Dea I think the press half attacked the DF just to sell some papers.

Sgt. Bilko 09

Gary kk wrote: »

Wasn't that around the time of Willie O'Dea I think the press half attacked the DF just to sell some papers.

About 3 years after that, he hated the DF too. I think his stance on Lariam would have proven that too. Cheap, cheerful may cause death that saying also apples to his running of the AC.

Sgt. Bilko 09

Larbre34 wrote: »

That wasn't a solution.

Put yourself in the position of the Government of the time. We get two jets and a patchy radar. That's impressive to the lay person who knows no better. That raises expectations. Then some incident arises, our crappy radar and two subsonic jets miss the whole show and its shown up for the fiasco it is. Or one jet is in the maintenance shed and the other gets a warning light on roll-out and doesn't get off the ground. That's politically toxic stuff.

It was turned down for that reason along with the unacceptable and probably illegal situation where we would have been bound to buy more planes from Aero Vodochey without a proper competition had we taken the deal.

It was more of a scenario of something is better that nothing, we lost the fougas and did not have all pc9s.
It is not illegal to be bound to buy more planes. “Carrot and stick” however it has been used for years by arms dealers and is still being used today.

Sgt. Bilko 09

Dohvolle wrote: »

He hated the DF but loved being minister. The Paddy's day parades in Limerick during his tenure were embarrassing, consisting of as much military equipment as the DF could put in place, and resembeled some sort of military display a tinpot dictator would put on to celebrate his birthday.
Colour party, 3 companies of marching troops, 10 APCs (with dismounts), Towed Artillery, including the mysterious Flycatcher radar which when in travelling configuration, locals assumed to be a mobile fridge. Cavalry motorcycles brought by trailer from Cork, DROPS and ROPS equipped trucks. with of course the mandatory FFR and GR Nissans in between.
And of course a Heli and PC9M flypast at the end.

And he still has the nerve to speak publicly on the state of the DF!

I share the exact same views, the man has no shame at all…

Lorddrakul

An L159 would not be much good in an interceptor role, as it can't match the Bear's ceiling and can only just about exceed its speed.

Larbre34

Dohvolle wrote: »

Looks great doing a flypast though.. and the noise would definitely send Eoin O'Broin's constituents running under their duvet.
Bugger all actual use. Look at those who bought them.

Iraq.

And the Breiting posh boys civilian display team.

Flinty997

Larbre34 wrote: »

And the Breiting posh boys civilian display team.

Lovely to watch ...:eek:

Flinty997

Dohvolle wrote: »

So is sunset, but it won't cost you €20m a year to look at.

If you like a second hand they are a good bit cheaper than that...

https://moneyinc.com/most-expensive-breitling-watches/

Sgt. Bilko 09

Dohvolle wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Hmm.
Russia is upset by the recent article, and say we should have nothing to fear...

https://twitter.com/Andy_Scollick/status/1407623044139524097


https://media1.tenor.com/images/477e6ede6f544bcc7a5c43739c242814/tenor.gif?itemid=15341539

Hahaha that gif fits perfectly, those training missions are doing very well. I can’t understand why there training mission is cut short when they met by the typhoons.

I really hope the appropriate people take notice of this and start purchasing decent and appropriate equipment….