Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

roadmaster

sparky42 wrote: »

If you were talking standing up a new squadron level Jet capability you'd need a significant increase in manpower so I suppose you could make it clear that they would be based there instead of Dublin.

Hide it in the Ts&Cs! If we where basing fighters in shannon maybe we should look at moving lock stock and barrel there. it would solve the ATC issue. If an east coast base was needed they could look at reopening gormanstown and basing helicopters there

Psychlops

roadmaster wrote: »

i wonder would there be any opposition in a move from casement to Shannon from personal

I wonder would they have a say? No different to other Militaries posting personnel to different outposts? I doubt the lads on EAS had a say when they were told they are going to Athlone with an AW139 for 3-4 days. They signed up for the job & I respect them 110% for it.:)

Psychlops

roadmaster wrote: »

If somehow in a few years the air corps managed to end up with a squadron of gripens or second hand F16’s that will be coming on the market with the arroval of the F35 in several nato countrys, what works would need to be done to casement to handle them? Would new hangers have to he built or runway Have to be upgraded?

F-16's have landed & overnighted at Casement for airshows but I believe that's with fuel & no stores, Casement would need major expansion.

sparky42

Psychlops wrote: »

I wonder would they have a say? No different to other Militaries posting personnel to different outposts? I doubt the lads on EAS had a say when they were told they are going to Athlone with an AW139 for 3-4 days. They signed up for the job & I respect them 110% for it.:)

Thought the 139 went home at night from Athlone?

Negative_G

sparky42 wrote: »

Thought the 139 went home at night from Athlone?

No - This is incorrect and I have seen this said elsewhere also.

Semi permanent infrastructure was built in Athlone to house the 139 and allow technicians to complete first line maintenance there. All crew remain in Athlone for the duration of their shift.

The aircraft remains in Athlone until the airframe itself requires rotation.

Psychlops

sparky42 wrote: »

Thought the 139 went home at night from Athlone?

No she stays put for 3-4 days, after that they rotate the airframe & crews back to Bal. Always back to Athlone at the end of VFR or the last tasking.

Psychlops

Negative_G wrote: »

No - This is incorrect and I have seen this said elsewhere also.

Semi permanent infrastructure was built in Athlone to house the 139 and allow technicians to complete first line maintenance there. All crew remain in Athlone for the duration of their shift.

The aircraft remains in Athlone until the airframe itself requires rotation.

Correct, pretty much after 3-4 days max.

roadmaster

Would 112 be the most active unit in the air corps they seam to be in the air everyday

Negative_G

roadmaster wrote: »

Would 112 be the most active unit in the air corps they seam to be in the air everyday

112. and GASU.

Both are VFR operations so that brings its own limitations.

Psychlops

I would love to know what the airframe hours are like on the AW139 fleet now as AIRCORPS112 is frequently tasked, sometimes 3 times a day, it is always visible on FR24, its a brilliant service & excellent PR for the Irish Air Corps as a whole.

Id say with the EAS being so busy it must be having an effect on the Airframe hours on the AW139 fleet, I doubt they expected to be using them as much, but having said that, long may it continue they really do a fantastic job along with IRCG.

mrhoppy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Surely it's time to grow up and defend our own airspace?

I see some on here jerking off to more propeller porn and it's embarrassing.

I have no interest in the Air Corps and think it should be disbanded if this does not happen soon.

It's pointless and a waste of money. Out source it to the RAF - would be cheaper.

On top of being of no economic or geopolitical importance, Ireland has nothing worth defending anyway. Just disband the entire “defence forces”, total waste of money that could be used to take people off the streets

jonnybigwallet

Treasonous talk. Call in the firing squad gor that chap!

mrhoppy

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Treasonous talk. Call in the firing squad gor that chap!

Who, me?

Larbre34

mrhoppy wrote: »

On top of being of no economic or geopolitical importance, Ireland has nothing worth defending anyway. Just disband the entire “defence forces”, total waste of money that could be used to take people off the streets

No nothing at all, sure we're not even a country, why bother our ar5e with a Government or public services of any sort, or any kind of markers of a republic or role models for our youth such as the Defence Forces (no need for quotes, they are not so-called, they really exist). We'll just pull out of the Arts and Public Parks and the Sciences and minority Sports as well as Defence that nobody fights elections on and spend all of it on Communist era tower blocks for every soul and ignore the totality of why they got there in the first place.

Ireland spends 0.3 of GDP on Defence, by far the lowest in the EU. Its about 950 million per annum. Do you really think in our clientelist society that that would change the world?

mrhoppy

Larbre34 wrote: »

No nothing at all, sure we're not even a country, why bother our ar5e with a Government or public services of any sort, or any kind of markers of a republic or role models for our youth such as the Defence Forces (no need for quotes, they are not so-called, they really exist). We'll just pull out of the Arts and Public Parks and the Sciences and minority Sports as well as Defence that nobody fights elections on and spend all of it on Communist era tower blocks for every soul and ignore the totality of why they got there in the first place.

Ireland spends 0.3 of GDP on Defence, by far the lowest in the EU. Its about 950 million per annum. Do you really think in our clientelist society that that would change the world?

That €950M could go towards something useful like alleviating the waiting list crisis (507,000 people on the waiting list now), or if they did want to spend it on defence, maybe providing the air corps with some craft that would allow them actually carry out their job if Ireland were ever attacked for whatever reason. PC-9s won’t do. Unless the air corps are able to be effective there’s no point in having them

Negative_G

mrhoppy wrote: »

That €950M could go towards something useful like alleviating the waiting list crisis (507,000 people on the waiting list now), or if they did want to spend it on defence, maybe providing the air corps with some craft that would allow them actually carry out their job if Ireland were ever attacked for whatever reason. PC-9s won’t do. Unless the air corps are able to be effective there’s no point in having them

The defence forces will never be given more than a token gesture because of the exact type of whataboutery that you refer to above.

Any significant investment in defence will be equated to waiting lists, hospital beds, the homeless, social housing etc etc.

Although the naval ship replacement went fairly under the radar, and by under the radar I mean very little negative press. Similarly the Cessna replacement tender went virtually unreported.

Acquiring jets would be a different kettle of fish entirely.

To be honest, at this stage, I'd much rather see the junior enlisted ranks in the DF receive a decent wage. To have service personnel on FIS is nothing short of a disgrace and happens to no other civil servants.

Psychlops

Negative_G wrote: »

Acquiring jets would be a different kettle of fish entirely.

To be honest, at this stage, I'd much rather see the junior enlisted ranks in the DF receive a decent wage. To have service personnel on FIS is nothing short of a disgrace and happens to no other civil servants.

Was there much of a kick up when they got the Lear45? This is nothing new, we are still in the "Jet-age" but just have the wrong type of jets. +1 on the wage too.

Id also like to see the likes of NCO's flying, if you can fly an Apache/Islander/Gazelle/Lynx/Wildcat in the UK Army Air Corps then I don't see why you cant fly an AW139/PC9M in the Irish Air Corps.

To be honest id be very happy if the Air Corps was a purely rotary force, they could have a real niche market there especially for overseas deployments, keep the Airspace deal with the RAF & concentrate on the rotary, keep training with the Army.

sparky42

Psychlops wrote: »

Was there much of a kick up when they got the Lear45? This is nothing new, we are still in the "Jet-age" but just have the wrong type of jets. +1 on the wage too.

Id also like to see the likes of NCO's flying, if you can fly an Apache/Islander/Gazelle/Lynx/Wildcat in the UK Army Air Corps then I don't see why you cant fly an AW139/PC9M in the Irish Air Corps.

To be honest id be very happy if the Air Corps was a purely rotary force, they could have a real niche market there especially for overseas deployments, keep the Airspace deal with the RAF & concentrate on the rotary, keep training with the Army.

There was plenty when there was a suggestion of replacing the other Government jet, more over any fighters would be a lot more in terms of money.


As to the AC converting to purely rotary, who handles MPA then? Moreover the airframes we have can't even be deployed given they are just civvies painted green.

Negative_G

Psychlops wrote: »

Was there much of a kick up when they got the Lear45? This is nothing new, we are still in the "Jet-age" but just have the wrong type of jets. +1 on the wage too.

Id also like to see the likes of NCO's flying, if you can fly an Apache/Islander/Gazelle/Lynx/Wildcat in the UK Army Air Corps then I don't see why you cant fly an AW139/PC9M in the Irish Air Corps.

There wasn't much kick back when the Lear was bought because the country was in the middle of one of the strongest economic cycles in modern times. The general public was far too busy buying property in Bulgaria off plans to worry about the government spending €10m on a new jet that was bought in advance of the EU presidency in 2004.

Why do you propose having NCOs as pilots? Other than "just cause the Brits do it"?.

Psychlops

Negative_G wrote: »

Why do you propose having NCOs as pilots? Other than "just cause the Brits do it"?.

Well it was a thought as to how it could be replicated like them & also why do you need to be an Officer to fly?

Anybody can fly once properly trained.

Psychlops

sparky42 wrote: »

MPA then? .

Navy? Has been said before that they should do that, but manpower is the issue there & for the IAC too.

sparky42

Psychlops wrote: »

Navy? Has been said before that they should do that, but manpower is the issue there & for the IAC too.

So take MPA with fixed wing multiple engine needs from the service that has been handling it and give it to a service that has feck all knowledge of how to do so? That seems unwise to me.


The answer would be to fund the DF to any reasonable level (like the 1.2% we did 20 years ago without any complaint in the nation) and let them have the resources and equipment they need.

Negative_G

Psychlops wrote: »

Well it was a thought as to how it could be replicated like them & also why do you need to be an Officer to fly?

Anybody can fly once properly trained.

I agree that anyone that has the ability and aptitude to fly should be allowed, however, that is why their is a cadetship advertised every year. Most potential applicats have almost ten years to apply once they turn 18.

In addition, will NCOs be required to do all the additional administration and staff jobs that are required of officers or do you implement a warrant officer system whereby all they do is fly and very little else.

I don't agree with what you are implying regarding anyone can fly once properly trained. That isn't true. Some people will have the ability straight away, others will require additional help and instruction and others simply won't be able to grasp it all. There are cadets who fail training routinely every year and the failure rate is somewhere between 20-30% on average. You assertion that "anyone can fly" is completely wrong and belittles the profession to be honest.

For an organisation the size of the AC, having two seperate streams of pilots on such a small fleet isnt practical.

I see the point you are trying to make but I cannot see justifiable reasons for it.

I believe the AC did operate with NCO pilots during the "emergency" but that was an entirely different set of circumstances than where we are today.

Regarding the lack of coverage on the acquisition of previous aircraft during the 2000s. It is also worth remembering that this was before a time when access to social media platform was logging on to a desktop computer to browse forums. Now with smart phones etc, every idiot has a platform to mouth off at every little thing. All you have to do is look at some of the faux outrage that is posted in after hours.

jonnybigwallet

Ne'er a sign of an auld jet in the skies over baldonnel...still, we have the bray air show to look forward to. I'll be on the Mall in London next tuesday watching the 100 year anniversary flypast by the RAF. Our poor lads will be hangin their heads in shame out in casement when the foreign air force lads fly in with their jets!

Larbre34

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

Ne'er a sign of an auld jet in the skies over baldonnel...still, we have the bray air show to look forward to. I'll be on the Mall in London next tuesday watching the 100 year anniversary flypast by the RAF. Our poor lads will be hangin their heads in shame out in casement when the foreign air force lads fly in with their jets!

They won't be, but you're still a trolling cretin.

jonnybigwallet

I'm reporting you for that.

Larbre34

jonnybigwallet wrote: »

I'm reporting you for that.

Badge of honour boss. Go find some other folk to try to wind up.

roadmaster

The PC9s are due to be replaced in 2025 i read somewhere so will we start to see moves back to jet aircraft or would they replace like for like in the next few years? Its only 7 years away which is not long when you consider the run in period in selection etc

Heraldoffreeent

roadmaster wrote: »

The PC9s are due to be replaced in 2025 i read somewhere so will we start to see moves back to jet aircraft or would they replace like for like in the next few years? Its only 7 years away which is not long when you consider the run in period in selection etc

The powers that be seem very enamored of Pilatus at the moment.

sparky42

roadmaster wrote: »

The PC9s are due to be replaced in 2025 i read somewhere so will we start to see moves back to jet aircraft or would they replace like for like in the next few years? Its only 7 years away which is not long when you consider the run in period in selection etc

It's going to be tricky for them to scope it I'd bet, there was an article out today that the Czech's are buying 2 more Cargo 295's but won't get them till 2020, so at best I'd say our MPA's are only going to be coming in 2021 at best if not 2022, at the same time the Eithne replacement is going to be happening around the same period, so what that's at least €250-300 million in Capital spend alone then. Short of a fairly significant budget increase there won't be the money for Jets.



I'd expect the tendering would only be started around 2020ish and the PC9's will go on after 2025, with perhaps external factors weighing on the selection.