Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

celticWario

I really don't think we need fighter jets, as we would never be in a situation where maintaining air superiority would be necessary. Our main concern in relation to national defence is monitoring our vast territorial waters, mainly against drug trafficking but also against illegal fishing and other things, reconnaissance planes, helicopters and bolstering our naval fleet is urgently needed.

donvito99

celticWario wrote: »

I really don't think we need fighter jets, as we would never be in a situation where maintaining air superiority would be necessary. Our main concern in relation to national defence is monitoring our vast territorial waters, mainly against drug trafficking but also against illegal fishing and other things, reconnaissance planes, helicopters and bolstering our naval fleet is urgently needed.

Those are all constabulary type duties though i.e. carried out by paramilitary, coast guard or police elsewhere.

sparky42

donvito99 wrote: »

Those are all constabulary type duties though i.e. carried out by paramilitary, coast guard or police elsewhere.

Ah no they aren’t.

ohnonotgmail

Dohvolle wrote: »

The Political will is there.
The public's opinion doesn't count.

who has shown the political will to spend money supporting this?

donvito99

sparky42 wrote: »

Ah no they aren’t.

I forgot this thread was an all year panto.

Why would you join the Defence Forces to spend 4 months away from home checking fishing nets?

Larbre34

donvito99 wrote: »

I forgot this thread was an all year panto.

Why would you join the Defence Forces to spend 4 months away from home checking fishing nets?

He's right, they aren't.

The Naval Service does the work that in other countries are done by the Navy, the Coastguard, the Border Force, the DEA, the Customs, dedicated fisheries enforcement bodies and a bunch of NGOs.

The same lads checking fishing nets will the next day be putting on body armour and loading a rifle or a pistol to get into a Rhib and intercept cargo ships and sailing vessels in some of the busiest and most lucrative drug transit waters in the World, plied by some of the most ruthless criminals and people traffickers going.

The question is, would you join up to do it?

Stovepipe

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Yes I see the shots, but they were nowhere near the direction of the ship - which is what the UK are saying.

Ill bet the Russians were recording as many radar and other electronic transmissions from the destroyer as it went on it's way and were testing it's reaction times. they are very aware of the Type's capability,especially when it comes to anti-aircraft functions.

donvito99

Larbre34 wrote: »

He's right, they aren't.

The Naval Service does the work that in other countries are done by the Navy, the Coastguard, the Border Force, the DEA, the Customs, dedicated fisheries enforcement bodies and a bunch of NGOs.

The same lads checking fishing nets will the next day be putting on body armour and loading a rifle or a pistol to get into a Rhib and intercept cargo ships and sailing vessels in some of the busiest and most lucrative drug transit waters in the World, plied by some of the most ruthless criminals and people traffickers going.

The question is, would you join up to do it?

The Naval Service does not perform the work "that in other countries [is] done by the Navy" - no anti-air, anti-sub, anti-surface. Perhaps if there was less log book inspections and interdiction of yachts, we might be able to retain more people and put together a proper defence when push comes to shove?

The NS should only be intercepting yachts full of cocaine or fishing boats with irregular log books when the coast guard, sea fisheries protection authority or the Guards are stuck. Otherwise they should spend all of their time training for their primary purpose, with the odd boarding thrown in to maintain those skills and regular deployments overseas to make the job worthwhile and ensure that crews can think on their feet.

Stovepipe

Larbre34 wrote: »

He's right, they aren't.

The Naval Service does the work that in other countries are done by the Navy, the Coastguard, the Border Force, the DEA, the Customs, dedicated fisheries enforcement bodies and a bunch of NGOs.

Because other countries,many of whom are our friends in the EU,arm their Coasties, Border guards, Customs and Drug enforcement agencies,so that when they turn up, they mean business and they patrol their waters intensively. We run two maritime aircraft ragged to patrol a huge EEZ so naturally,our best surveillance device is going to miss things, such as ships bearing contraband or fishermen being naughty.

Dohvolle

donvito99 wrote: »

Have any of the major parties said anything about Defence other than "aren't we brilliant at peacekeeping" or "if your town floods, I have two dozen infantrymen to fill sandbags"?

There is no political will to actually defend the state conventionally, other than in the cyber sphere potentially.

It does in that they've elected people who do not care.

The labour party actually included it in their election manifesto last time round.
https://www.labour.ie/manifesto/restoring-our-defence-forces/

We elect the people who will speak for us at local level. Ireland hasn't got that the TD is not the local councillor as well any more. They are elected to speak on behalf of all Ireland, not just where their constituency is.

Manic Moran

sparky42 wrote: »

Ah no they aren’t.

I am trying to think of anything that the Naval Servcice does which the US Coast Guard does not do, or at least, is not equipped to do.

Indeed, if fully kitted out, I’d not put money against a single Bertholf class cutter taking on the entire Irish Naval Service and Air Corps put together in a fight and winning.

If it weren’t for the nominal task of “defend the State against foreign aggression”, (a secondary function of the US Coast Guard) there seems no difference at all between the activities of the Naval Service vs Coast Guard either in territorial or distant waters.

sparky42

Manic Moran wrote: »

I am trying to think of anything that the Naval Servcice does which the US Coast Guard does not do, or at least, is not equipped to do.

Indeed, if fully kitted out, I’d not put money against a single Bertholf class cutter taking on the entire Irish Naval Service and Air Corps put together in a fight and winning.

If it weren’t for the nominal task of “defend the State against foreign aggression”, (a secondary function of the US Coast Guard) there seems no difference at all between the activities of the Naval Service vs Coast Guard either in territorial or distant waters.

Well yes but the US Coast Guard is effectively a military service as well, a far different animal to most of the European “Coast Guards”. I mean the US Coast Guard had everything up to Harpoon missiles during the Cold War.

sparky42

sparky42 wrote: »

Well yes but the US Coast Guard is effectively a military service as well, a far different animal to most of the European “Coast Guards”. I mean the US Coast Guard had everything up to Harpoon missiles during the Cold War.

No "effectively" about it, they are a military branch.

Gary kk

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No "effectively" about it, they are a military branch.

Above or below Space Force?

sparky42

Gary kk wrote: »

Above or below Space Force?

Space Force (what a stupid name) is the youngest service, so Coast Guard would be senior to them.

Dohvolle

Gary kk wrote: »

Above or below Space Force?

I enjoyed that show. Even if the actual Space Force was sometimes funnier...

roadmaster

Manic Moran wrote: »

I am trying to think of anything that the Naval Servcice does which the US Coast Guard does not do, or at least, is not equipped to do.

Indeed, if fully kitted out, I’d not put money against a single Bertholf class cutter taking on the entire Irish Naval Service and Air Corps put together in a fight and winning.

If it weren’t for the nominal task of “defend the State against foreign aggression”, (a secondary function of the US Coast Guard) there seems no difference at all between the activities of the Naval Service vs Coast Guard either in territorial or distant waters.

Isnt the US coast guard on its own in the top ten biggest navys in the world?

Flinty997

Gary kk wrote: »

Above or below Space Force?

We're above and beyond that....

https://youtu.be/E8m5wvhkEGY

Flinty997

Manic Moran wrote: »

I am trying to think of anything that the Naval Servcice does which the US Coast Guard does not do, or at least, is not equipped to do.

Indeed, if fully kitted out, I’d not put money against a single Bertholf class cutter taking on the entire Irish Naval Service and Air Corps put together in a fight and winning.

If it weren’t for the nominal task of “defend the State against foreign aggression”, (a secondary function of the US Coast Guard) there seems no difference at all between the activities of the Naval Service vs Coast Guard either in territorial or distant waters.

I was surprised to see just how far from home the US Coast Guard Operated

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a36398782/iran-harasses-us-ships-strait-hormuz-coast-guard-fires-shots/

Gary kk

Flinty997 wrote: »

We're above and beyond that....

https://youtu.be/E8m5wvhkEGY

That was a great show

Gary kk

Gary kk wrote: »

Above or below Space Force?

In reality or according to Steve carell?

Gary kk

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

In reality or according to Steve carell?

I thought that was a live in documentary

ohnonotgmail

Flinty997 wrote: »

I was surprised to see just how far from home the US Coast Guard Operated

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a36398782/iran-harasses-us-ships-strait-hormuz-coast-guard-fires-shots/

This famous photgraph on D-Day was taken by a member of the coast guard. the coast guard manned Landing Craft for the invasion

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This famous photgraph on D-Day was taken by a member of the coast guard. the coast guard manned Landing Craft for the invasion

Impressive but what the **** was he thinking taking a picture at that moment?

ohnonotgmail

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Impressive but what the **** was he thinking taking a picture at that moment?

Because that was his job. He was there to document the invasion. this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Sargent

Flinty997

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

This famous photgraph on D-Day was taken by a member of the coast guard. the coast guard manned Landing Craft for the invasion...

I'm not entirely sure wartime expediencies are a good example. Great photo though.

sparky42

Flinty997 wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure wartime expediencies are a good example. Great photo though.

That’s the point, in War or Peace the US Coast Guard is an active service, their current deployments are no different than in any other decade.

Gary kk

Manic Moran wrote: »

I am trying to think of anything that the Naval Servcice does which the US Coast Guard does not do, or at least, is not equipped to do.

Indeed, if fully kitted out, I’d not put money against a single Bertholf class cutter taking on the entire Irish Naval Service and Air Corps put together in a fight and winning.

If it weren’t for the nominal task of “defend the State against foreign aggression”, (a secondary function of the US Coast Guard) there seems no difference at all between the activities of the Naval Service vs Coast Guard either in territorial or distant waters.

No I don't see how one could win a well planned out attack. I mean I would throw some guys using Gustav recoilless on the p60s not to damage the cutter but to distract. One on one sure the cutter but not a coordinated attack.

Flinty997

sparky42 wrote: »

That’s the point, in War or Peace the US Coast Guard is an active service, their current deployments are no different than in any other decade.

Are they doing amphibious landings against heavily defended beaches like that photo.

Larbre34

Well this discussion is deep in the ditch.