Why are so many Strong Gaelic football Counties in Decline?

Seth Brundle

Sonny678 wrote: »

Meath and Kildare are current negative. There is many examples now of players in Meath with players playing with Meaths schools and Meath clubs and then switching to Dublin at adult level. This is a growing thread and will continue. It more then likely will grow and grow as a feature of Meath GAA. Meath and Kildare football nursery's for Dublin is a growing features on the ground in gaa circles in both counties

I grew up in Dublin (never really got the opportuinty to play unfortunately) but would support Dublin. I now live in Leixlip.
My children have lived in Leixlip all their lives and would always support Kildare (they would happily support anyone but Dublin).
My son proudly plays for his club and has proudly represented his county. I think it is the same for all of this team mates and for most other players whose parents I've chatted with (many of whom are originally from Dublin). The lads love watching the county and cheering them on (especially cheering whomever may be playing from our club).

If Dublin parents living in Meath have children who aren't proud of where they live then this is down to the both parents and the club. The parents will obviously influence the kids but should this be any greater than the infludence that they're getting from their friends and classmates and community? However, the club should also be influencing the kids. Is there no pride in their county? Do they not feel it's their county? Is there not enough engagement with the kids at county level?
Why is my experience in Kidare different to the previous posters in Meath?
I know there was always a bit of rivallry between Dublin and Meath but I really don't understand why there appears to be such a difference.

Bonniedog

Sonny, perhaps Meath is unique in that many of Dub "emigrants" are from north county where rivalry is intense, to say the least!

I have nieces and nephews in Cork and Kildare of Dub parents and out of 8, only one supports Dublin. She makes quite a virtue of it in fact. Rest have all played with local clubs and support own county. Don't mind Cork so much but Kildare, the shame .....

(BTW, hadn't read above post, but seems similar. Kildare nephews hate Dubs with a passion, much to embarrassment of my brother!)

Sonny678

What has happened to Down football. Someone told me there is couple of strong Down clubs now. While in the 60s every year there was new county champions and there was a better spread of clubs and better system. I don't know if that is true.

What about Armagh . Armagh had strong teams in 70s 80s and 90s. And great 1 in the 00s. I remeber Meath playing Armagh in 2014. I was so impressed with Armagh. I was thinking they could be future All Ireland champions by the end of the decade. Is Crossmaglen influence to strong?

Laois a strong football county. To see Laois in div 4 with an old team is not nice to see . You hear stories of player indiscipline. Is that true or other factors.

Offaly another great GAA county. How Offaly declined since 82 had been a massive pity for leinster football.

Sonny678

kbannon wrote:

If Dublin parents living in Meath have children who aren't proud of where they live then this is down to the both parents and the club. The parents will obviously influence the kids but should this be any greater than the infludence that they're getting from their friends and classmates and community? However, the club should also be influencing the kids. Is there no pride in their county? Do they not feel it's their county? Is there not enough engagement with the kids at county level? Why is my experience in Kidare different to the previous posters in Meath? I know there was always a bit of rivallry between Dublin and Meath but I really don't understand why there appears to be such a difference.

You answered the question in the last line. The Meath v Dublin rivalry. Most parents settling with kids now in Meath grew up in the 80s and 90s. What was going on in Dublin GAA in 90s. Yearly battles with Meaths. And nearly yearly victories for Meath.

There is no real rivalry between Kildare and Dublin. It's a muted rivalry. Kildare don't like Dublin. But there is a lack of bite . Something you could never accuse Meath and Dublin of not having. Meath defeated Dublin in 8 leinster finals in over 10 years in the 80s and 90s. Kildare have only beaten Dublin 1 time in a leinster final in 100 years. That's the reason. Meath v Dublin is a rivalry. One of if not the biggest rivalry in GAA.

Kildare and Dublin is not really. In the last 45 years Kildare have beaten Dublin twice and no draws. In the last 35 years Meaths have beaten Dublin 9 times and 5 draws. That's why. It's a rivalry. Man City parents are not going to bring their kids up to support Man Utd. Celtic parents are not going to bring their kids up to support Rangers. Kilkenny parents are not going to bring their kids up to support Tipp. It's the same with Meath and Dubllin. There will be the few who will. But the vast majority of Dublin parents would rather their kids support and play for Dublin not Meath. I think that makes obvious sense. Surely that is no surprise.

bucketybuck

Sonny678 wrote: »

UNBELIEVABLE UNBELIEVEABLE. Meath are to blame for parents of Dublin encouranging young players who play for Meath clubs all the age grades and then transfer to Dublin. You can support and play for who you want. But don't be saying that Meath are to blame. That is unreal. Dreadful carry on.

I never said that.

I did say that Meath GAA seems to have a large chip on its shoulder, and all you have done is reinforce that suspicion.

Sonny678

Bonniedog wrote:

Sonny, perhaps Meath is unique in that many of Dub "emigrants" are from north county where rivalry is intense, to say the least!

Bonniedog wrote:

I have nieces and nephews in Cork and Kildare of Dub parents and out of 8, only one supports Dublin. She makes quite a virtue of it in fact. Rest have all played with local clubs and support own county. Don't mind Cork so much but Kildare, the shame .....

Bonniedog wrote:

(BTW, hadn't read above post, but seems similar. Kildare nephews hate Dubs with a passion, much to embarrassment of my brother!)

Bonniedog North side element could be a reason. But Kildare and Cork didn't have the rivalry Meath had with Dublin. It's the rivalry. I have seen it all my life.

DJIMI TRARORE

I'd say the biggest reason is that people realised that playing GAA is not the be all and end all of sport in Ireland any more. More and more sporting clubs setting up all the time,in cavan we now have swimming,triathlon,archery,cricket running,athletic etc etc. Imagine if someone suggested a cricket club in cavan in 1997 they would be shot. More and more people are finding the training and the roughness of gaa off putting,plus the attitude that if ur not winning every competition u enter that u are sh1te. U8 are been drilled for 1-3 hrs every weekend, u must do this,u must do that,no joy in them any more. Even feile,u14 competition, players on diets and not allowed eat buns or cakes after games,even bringing their own chefs FFS

Sonny678

bucketybuck wrote:

I never said that.

bucketybuck wrote:

I did say that Meath GAA seems to have a large chip on its shoulder, and all you have done is reinforce that suspicion.

OK Bucketybuck. If you didn't say it. I apologise. Yes we do have a everyone hates us chip on our shoulder. But that because everyone did hate in the us in the 80s and 90s.
But the reality of the situation is the reality of the situation.

Sonny678

DJIMI TRARORE wrote:

I'd say the biggest reason is that people realised that playing GAA is not the be all and end all of sport in Ireland any more. More and more sporting clubs setting up all the time,in cavan we now have swimming,triathlon,archery,cricket running,athletic etc etc. Imagine if someone suggested a cricket club in cavan in 1997 they would be shot. More and more people are finding the training and the roughness of gaa off putting,plus the attitude that if ur not winning every competition u enter that u are sh1te. U8 are been drilled for 1-3 hrs every weekend, u must do this,u must do that,no joy in them any more. Even feile,u14 competition, players on diets and not allowed eat buns or cakes after games,even bringing their own chefs FFS

Cavan is a great GAA county. I know u hate us in Meath. But always like Cavan GAA. Hard-core supporters follow the team through thick and thin. But it seems to me that GAA don't look at counties like Cavan and say we need to prioritize a county with such tradition as Cavan. They dont seem to care. The scenes in 97 where unreal. I was going with a Cavan girl at the time and I was at the Ulster final and the scenes afterwards were amazing. It hard to believe that is Cavans only Ulster title in nearly half a century. More should be done to help counties like Cavan.

Bonniedog

Can we all agree to just hate Kildare?

Sonny678

Bonniedog wrote:

Can we all agree to just hate Kildare?

But deep down you don't. It those white jerseys. They are just to daz white. It makes them look so innocent clean and nice. The green and gold of Meath and Kerry is a different story all together and it brings the real hate and bile from the Dubs. Offaly had green and gold colours as well. The Jackeens don't like boggers in green and gold.

Bonniedog

Sonny678 wrote: »

But deep down you don't. It those white jerseys. They are just to daz white. It makes them look so innocent clean and nice. The green and gold of Meath and Kerry is a different story all together and it brings the real hate and bile from the Dubs. Offaly had green and gold colours as well. The Jackeens don't like boggers in green and gold.

"Jackeens" replaced the crown flag with the green and gold, so don't see that as issue.

Dislike of Kildare was more in line with outrage - there is Latin phrase that I can't recall - about being beaten by them. Like Barcelona being beaten by Villareal or Yankees by Colorado. Not natural!

Gael85

Sonny678 wrote: »

Thanks. Your right. Leitrim was 94. And yes Clare v Kerry was another great moment . How of course could I forget the line "they're wouldn't be a cow milked In clare". The Clare game was the beginning of that great run of football moments. Both played Dublin in the semi finals in 92 Clare and in 94 Leitrim. I wonder with the super 8 will we ever see a Clare or Leitrim play in a semi final v Dublin ever again. Very doubtful. I would add Clare v Kerry to my list of favs gaa moments in that period. Loughnane always said that win by the footballers was an inspiration to the Clare hurlers. Even though he was never a football fan. Thanks again .

Agree very hard to see minnows qualify for last 8. Think the backdoor suits the big teams. The super 8 will widen the gap further. Loved 92 & 94 as mother from Leitrim and father from Clare.

rossie1977

Sonny678 wrote: »

Cavan is a great GAA county. I know u hate us in Meath. But always like Cavan GAA. Hard-core supporters follow the team through thick and thin. But it seems to me that GAA don't look at counties like Cavan and say we need to prioritize a county with such tradition as Cavan. They dont seem to care. The scenes in 97 where unreal. I was going with a Cavan girl at the time and I was at the Ulster final and the scenes afterwards were amazing. It hard to believe that is Cavans only Ulster title in nearly half a century. More should be done to help counties like Cavan.

Cavan had an excellent underage system in place and produced some of the best minor and under 21 teams in Ireland between 2010 and 2015. I was at this game in 2014, a game Cavan could have and probably should have won with one of the best counter attacking displays I have seen at that level. Eight of the Dublin team I believe played championship football last year just to indicate how strong their opponents were http://www.the42.ie/live-dublin-cavan-u21-1423566-Apr2014/

At the end of the day it's up to the county board and management to incorporate those players and tactics at senior level. Dublin have done it flawlessly since 2010.

Sonny678

rossie1977 wrote:

Cavan had an excellent underage system in place and produced some of the best minor and under 21 teams in Ireland between 2010 and 2015. I was at this game in 2014, a game Cavan could have and probably should have won with one of the best counter attacking displays I have seen at that level. Eight of the Dublin team I believe played championship football last year just to indicate how strong their opponents were

rossie1977 wrote:

At the end of the day it's up to the county board and management to incorporate those players and tactics at senior level. Dublin have done it flawlessly since 2010.

Yes but what about the 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. What does the GAA really do for county like Cavan. Roscommon would be yes have great underage sucess recently . And an excellent young team. After Tyrone the best young team in the country. The next few years look very promising for Roscommon. They seem to be on the beginning of new era of sucess.

But before this decade Roscomon would be similar to Cavan. Both last wins in the 40s and 50s. Both strong gaelic football counties. Great supporters. A strong club system in the county. Yet sucess lacking overall. Both left to their own devices.

Both Cavan and Roscomon are gaa heartlands. There is very little soccer rugby it's just gaelic football. I cannot understand how GAA look at counties like Cavan, an aristocrat of the game. And say it's good enough that they have won 1 Ulster title in 50 years. Clearly more outside help needs to be done. They dont give a **** in HQ.

Sonny678

kbannon wrote:

If Dublin parents living in Meath have children who aren't proud of where they live then this is down to the both parents and the club. The parents will obviously influence the kids but should this be any greater than the infludence that they're getting from their friends and classmates and community? However, the club should also be influencing the kids. Is there no pride in their county? Do they not feel it's their county? Is there not enough engagement with the kids at county level? Why is my experience in Kidare different to the previous posters in Meath? I know there was always a bit of rivallry between Dublin and Meath but I really don't understand why there appears to be such a difference.

To blame the club is unfair. The parents have a role here. I grew up in an area there would have been migration from west to Meath. You would have neighbours who never joined a Meath club or played football. Would arrived in Meath when they were 7 or 8. They would be in their 70s or 80s now. They dont consider themselves Meath they consider themselves Kerry or Clare. Not only that they hate Meath football with a passion.

I know a chap who did thesis on migration and he interviewed many of the above. He asked them. Why they hated Meath.? Was it a bad experience living in the county? They said no it was a nice place to live. Bad experiences with local clubs or school? No kids loved the clubs and schools. The reason was they justed hated Meath footballers. They hated Mick Lyons and co. We are not a popular gaa county.

I knew 5 fellas growing up. All parents from the west came with the land commission. Known of them played GAA did not join. Weren't good enough. But did like sports and gaa. And because their parents hated the Meath football team they hated the Meath football team. This was passed on.

Ask any Meath person and they will tell you there has always been people living in the county who hate our footballers. It wouldn't be anything to do with a club or school. Simply put because of Meaths sucessful footballers. Players like Lyons and a Geraghty were hate figures . We were hated up and down the country . Of course the Dubs and other people are going to continue hating us even if they live in the county and have a positive experience in the county.

Sonny678

To continue from the above.
The guy who did the thesis was from Offaly. It was about migration to Meath from the west. He was shocked at the level of hate to Meath footballers. He interviewed around 12 elderly men who migrated from the west coast at the age of 7 or 8 or 9 . There family was given a farm in Meath. They were all over 65 now.

They would live in Meath and rear a family. He said they said they had a very positive experience in Meath. A very nice life in Meath for them and their family. They all had positive experiences in schools and Meath clubs. But when the topic of Meath football team came up, things changed. Every single one of them hated Meath footballers. They were dirty so and sos. And all the usual. The chap I knew was shocked and surprised but I wasn't. That would have been my experience growing up.

I grew up in rural Meath. The area I lived there was my family who would have been in the area for generations. Then 7 land commission families. Basically families that would have migrated from the western seaboard under De Valera policies in the 30s 40s 50s 60s. My experience was most of their kids did not support Meath. And every one of the fathers supported their county of birth and the Mayo or kerry flag would come out before big games for Mayo or kerry. And they all hated Meath footballers with a passion.

That is my experience. We have always had people in the county who lived happily for decades but hated our football team. Dublin supporters are just latest examples of that.

rossie1977

Sonny678 wrote: »

Yes but what about the 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. What does the GAA really do for county like Cavan. Roscommon would be yes have great underage sucess recently . And an excellent young team. After Tyrone the best young team in the country. The next few years look very promising for Roscommon. They seem to be on the beginning of new era of sucess.

But before this decade Roscomon would be similar to Cavan. Both last wins in the 40s and 50s. Both strong gaelic football counties. Great supporters. A strong club system in the county. Yet sucess lacking overall. Both left to their own devices.

Both Cavan and Roscomon are gaa heartlands. There is very little soccer rugby it's just gaelic football. I cannot understand how GAA look at counties like Cavan, an aristocrat of the game. And say it's good enough that they have won 1 Ulster title in 50 years. Clearly more outside help needs to be done. They dont give a **** in HQ.

There is actually quite a bit of rugby in South Roscommon. We have lost a number of players to rugby in recent years such as Jack Carty and Danny Qualter both standouts at minor level having since represented Ireland at under 20 and Connacht.

Roscommon had quite a few barren years post 2001 at senior level for a number of reasons. We didn't produce anything at underage level and would get hammered by Mayo/Galway and lose to Leitrim and Sligo consistently at minor and under 21 and that followed then at senior. There was also alot of poor managerial appointments where they tried to totally tear up the team and build from scratch and there simply wasn't enough players in the county to undertake such a task. I can't blame the GAA on any of that. That's the Roscommon county boards own fault. Since 2005-06 Roscommon has developed a top class grass-roots program which brought success at underage (seven Connacht finals in a row at under 21 between 2010 and 2016) and it's now starting to show signs at senior level. But again any success Roscommon has at senior level going forward will be on them not what the GAA does.

Obviously we are miles behind the likes of Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo in terms of professional setup. It would be lovely if the GAA built a nice big centre of excellence in the county but beggars can't be choosers.

Stoner

Sonny678 wrote:

Firstly about country lads wearing the tops in Dublin. There has being a long tradition of country lads playing in Dublin. Sure up to the 1955 every All Ireland Dublin won was full of country lads. A few Clare jerseys amongst 1 and half million people is not going to matter either way.

And did you enjoy the 50's Sonny?

You have a very backward view imo.

If you think its a few Clare jerseys then it's shows how far off the mark you are.

There are a huge amount of country lads playing in Dublin, and they don't always get a good run either.

It cuts both ways, you'll just have to deal with it or remain bitter. Things change Sonny that's life.

Either embrace it or it will only get worse imo.

slegs

Sonny678 wrote: »

What about limerick hurling. A great GAA county. I know rugby is strong. But it has a rich tradition. And great love of hurling. A good population with a big city. Yet Limerick have only won 1 senior hurling All Ireland in 78 years. It's 45 years since they last won a senior hurling All Ireland.

Limerick have been a failure at senior but have been relatively successful at underage in recent years particularly in schools hurling and U21. You could say that a decline has been halted if anything and hurling is alive again in Limerick city. I think Limerick are a good example of the argument against the OP's view. Ultimately it has to lead to an All Ireland to be proven but the building blocks are there.

Sonny678

Stoner wrote:

And did you enjoy the 50's Sonny?

Stoner wrote:

If you think its a few Clare jerseys then it's shows how far off the mark you are.

Stoner wrote:

You have a very backward view imo.

Stoner wrote:

There are a huge amount of country lads playing in Dublin, and they don't always get a good run either.

Stoner wrote:

It cuts both ways, you'll just have to deal with it or remain bitter. Things change Sonny that's life.

Stoner wrote:

Either embrace it or it will only get worse imo.

Stoner that is very unfair. I'm bitter . I don't know how I'm bitter. I might not have explained myself well in the above paragraph. That paragraph is a bit of a mess. I didn't explain myself well at all in that paragraph.

I believe The movement to Meath the growth of population is a good thing. It is a positive thing. How is that bitter
I believe economically socially and culturally it had transformed Meath from a quite rural county to a modern vibrant energetic young area. How is that bitter.

I'm just saying there was people in the past who didn't support the county. That is a fact. How is that bitter.

There is many Dublin people in the county involved with Meath clubs who encourage their kids to play for Dublin in the future. How is that bitter to say.

I believe The Dublin people in the clubs can bring iniative good energy positivity to those Meath clubs. How is that bitter.

But for the county this is a negative. That is a fact. That's all. How am I bitter by stating that.

I think Stoner you are being very unfair. I am one of the most forward thinking people you will meet. But I am a passionate Meath man. I love my county. And I want to see us sucessful. And this is an issue in the county at the moment. Not the most important issue. But it is an issue all the same . To say that is not been bitter. It been stating the bleeding obvious. We will just have to adapt. A sucessful Meath senior team would help win the minds of young players in the county. That will help matters.

I don't hate Dublin. I don't hate anyone. I actually like Dublin people. Their sense of humour is very similar to Meaths peoples sense of humour. I was glad to see them win the All Ireland in 2011. We needed a Dublin all Ireland win in the GAA. 16 years was to long a wait. And those Dublin players deserved the win after years of nearly sucess. But when Dublin have won 5 in 7 years and our going for 4 in a row. If I say I would rather someone else win next year. That doesn't mean I hate Dublin. It means I think it would be good for the game.

But to call me bitter is disappointing. I'm either not explaining myself well . Or you have read everything I wrote all wrong.

This feckin site. I cannot feckin get the handle of it. I'm either fighting with people over a football match , row after row with 6 or 7 Dubs, or people are just calling me bitter. I don't know. I give up. It ain't working out. Its time to give it up again. Before I start another row and be accussed of I don't know of being who knows what. I'm ain't explaining myself properly and causing to much hassle on the site. That is not my intention.

Bonniedog

This is interesting debate. Sonny has his point of view which is backed up with historical knowledge.

No need to impute any other motives, I think.

All counties have different histories. My own family's main GAA influence was granddad from Tipp who hurled for Dublin. But Dub grandmother's family were GAA back to 1890s when, as they say, it was either popular nor profitable.

Dublin GAA up to 50s was to large extent dominated by people who had come from other counties. There was football tradition in Dublin, much the same as Meath in fact and from areas close by geographically, but hurling did not exist. My grandfather despite playing for Dublin and had sons and grand children who played for Dublin always supported the team Dublin were playing. Ce la vie, as they say!

Sonny678

slegs wrote:

Limerick have been a failure at senior but have been relatively successful at underage in recent years particularly in schools hurling and U21. You could say that a decline has been halted if anything and hurling is alive again in Limerick city. I think Limerick are a good example of the argument against the OP's view. Ultimately it has to lead to an All Ireland to be proven but the building blocks are there.

That's fair enough. But we have been down this road with limerick before. We had that extraordinary 3 in row under 21 team in the 00s. I thought myself and say allot of people that would lead to senior title in the late 00s. But other then that great win v Waterford in 2007 and the final v Kilkenny . It never materialised. Hopefully it does this time. We all love to see Waterford win liam . But it would be great if limerick did also. A great gaa county. A great sport county. Passionate fans . They play a great brand of hurling. All passion fire and fury. Always enjoyed Limerick hurling.

But overall at senior level for a county with such a great tradition strong club scene a big population and a city 1 senior win in 80 years is poor.

I always felt the heartbreaking loss to Offaly in 94 was something that hit limerick hard. They got back to the final in 96. But they never recovered really in the 90s from 94. It's pity they didn't win in 94 for you get the feeling more sucess would have followed. If they won in 94 , That 3 in a row under 21 teams could have made the breakthrough. There was probaly to much expected and to much pressure on those 3 in a row teams to deliver.

But hopefully we will see Liam Mcartney in limerick pretty soon.

Mehapoy

Sonny678 wrote: »

bucketybuck wrote:

Honestly, it sounds as if Meath GAA has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about all these "blow-ins", they would be better to accept the reality of those figures and work on how to embrace them rather than giving them the cold shoulder.

bucketybuck wrote:

They might be Dubs, but embrace them now, create a welcoming club culture and Meath GAA might actually find that it would pay off in 10/20 years.

I know at least 4 Dublin parents in Meath. Children playing in Meath clubs. And their fathers told me. They will never support Meath. Always Dublin. And would never play for Meath. And two told me they would sure their kids will hate Meath football as much as he does himself. No problem. Nothing wrong with that. Free country. But don't make it out to be Meaths fault. Those parents viewpoint would be the majority viewpoint.

Dublin GAA supporters with children in Meath club are going to rather their kids support Dublin and play for Dublin. That is a fact. To say otherwise Donald Trump wouldn't even come up with such nonsense. Many will encourage their children to be part of Meath clubs and then support and play Dublin. There is thousands upon thousands of examples of this. Nothing wrong. You can do what you like. There is many examples.

But do not say that Meath had caused this. It's not right. It's playing the Meath are the bad guys card and Dublin are the good guys card. There are no bad guys. It is just modern Ireland. People are moving out to the sticks. Culturally socially economically it's bringing a great energy and vibrancy to Meath and Kildare. It is a positive impact on the county of Meath socially culturally economically.

But in GAA terms it has had a negative effect on Meath GAA. Meath producing future Dublin players is not Meaths fault. To blame us it's not right. It pretty bad form.

Simple put everyone who knows anything about gaa would understand this. Dubs want their kids to support and play Dublin. They are 100% their right. But don't blame Meath for this. That is Not right. Whatsoever.

It happens all over the country, in Limerick a lot of Tipperary and Clare people would have moved to Limerick and have children playing for and supporting Limerick(Moran's of ahane, Shane O'Neill, ), vice versa also, the rivalries are as bitter as Dublin/Meath so I don't know why its so unique to Dublin and Meath

Sonny678

Somehow this thread was about so many Strong counties in decline. Yet in went of in another direction or two. I have to take the blame for that. Instead of just posting short concise messages I do the opposite and continue to post over and over again.

Stoner I am a bit disappointed u think I'm bitter. I would consider you a decent nice fella. I don't think I'm bitter. But clearly thats the way it came across. The paragraph you identified made no sense to me and I wrote it. It was badly constructed and I have had quite a few of them.

I was talking about rural Ireland and old farmers and parents . Rural Ireland is not cultured it's not cosmopolitan. It's wonderful in it's own way, but rough , and at times rough around the edges. But I am very proud of being from rural Ireland. It made me the person in every way the good and the bad and I suspose the bitter.

Being Meath supporters over the years you do get negative responses from other counties. And while some miss the Meath teams of old the responses are still highly negative. And to this day I can be surprised of how much a Tyrone or Cork person still hates us. I have never met Tyrone supporter who still remeber 96 of some sort of day Meath people decapitated the whole population of Tyrone in Croker. Supporters from.other counties the digs are criticism go from the mild you cheated in 2010 to dirty #$$####$$ so and sos and much much worse. Am I bitter? . I don't think so . But I suspose it has subconsciously made me have a chip on the shoulder. Probaly.

I have probaly let my fella Meath men down on this board ie. Top blokes like Hammer. Probaly thinking he making a show of us again. But overall I just want to say If I did annoy insult demean and say anything negative towards other counties and other supporters and sections of supporters , definatly it wasn't my intention and I do apologise. I seem to just write of the top of my head. And respond to messages and threads full of emotion and gusto. Sometimes I'm responding to myself.

And end up in knots and starting fights. Definatly not my intention. I enjoy this board immensely. I read it daily. And want to join into so many threads. But as you can see when I do its becomes a mess. So I am going to take a break again for good. It's just I'm not able to work the forum well. Like I said before Its like I come for a couple of drinks with the locals to talk about the match at the weekend and instead get violent drunk tell stories from my past as I try and thump the head of every local in the pub.

Before I go off into wilderness though I would like to mention 1 more gaa topic I wanted to post. But it related to this kind of. But I won't respond I will leave at that. I was going to set up a separate thread called The Art of defending is Dying, but I will place it here instead.

PS Thanks Bonniedog for being encouraging about what I wrote. With your style and in your excellent humorous way. Appreciated. Gentleman you are.

My last gaa topic is the art of defence is dying. I think the blanket defence and sweepers is killing the skill of defending. I was a corner back in my day. A good man marker. But when I look at defenders today their defensive skills etc is poor. The Atleticism and mobility is a sight to behold. But players not looking to block a players stronger leg , or baal watching or standing in the wrong positions happens over and over again. Don't get me wrong there is some great defenders. But they mostly all play for Dublin and Mayo. But compared to years ago we don't seem to have the same high quality or quantity of great defenders . I think what has happened is if a player makes a mistake now there is a sweeper to cover up our blanket defence to cover up for mistakes. It has made defenders a bit loose.

In my day you couldn't make mistakes. If you had a mistake in the corner back position even the half back position there was no one to cover you. The opposing forward was in on goals. This made you improve your defensive skilset. If you didn't improve you wouldn't play.

Dublin have great defenders. Proper defenders like Cooper McMahon Sullivan Brennan Mcarthy. Dublin have always produced great defenders eg Sean Doherty Tommy Drumm Paul Curran Keith Barr Eamon Heery Mick Kennedy Paddy Christie Gerry Hargan. That has continued with the current crop. Mayo also have great defenders eg Keegan Boyle Vaughan Higgins. And Mayo also have a great tradition of defending. Going back to Sean Flanagan Dermot Flanagan James Nallen Mortimer Pat Holmes.

But other counties with great tradition the Galway . Have had great defenders. One of the greatest ever in Enda Collernan. But at the moment defensively Galway are very weak.

Kerry another county with great tradition. All time great defenders eg Tim Kennelly Jimmy Dennihan Tommy Doyle Paudi O Se Tomas O Se Marc O Se Seamus Moyihan Eamon Breen liam Flaherty Aidan O Mahony Tom Sullivan . At the moment kerry defensively very shakey.

Meath also have had a great tradition of defenders epescislly corner backs and full backs eg Paddy O Brien Mick O Brien Jack Quinn Peter Darby Pat Collier Pat Reynolds snr Mick Lyons Robbie O Malley liam Harnan Martin O Connell Darren Fay Mark Reilly. Meath have had defensive problems for 15 yeas weak defensively.

In the 90s and 00s you had great defenders like Niall Callanhane Stephen O Brien Seamus Moyihan Eamon Breen Tony Scullion Sean Martin Lockart Henry Downey DJ Kane Conor Deegan Sean Og de Paor Tomas Mannion Mick Lyons Darren Fay Martin O Connell Keith Barr Eamon Heery Paul Curran Gerry Hargan Paddy Christie Kieran McGeeney Ryan McMeninman Conor Gormley Philip Jordan Davy Harte Anthony Lynch Graham Canty James Nallen and many many more.

I just think the blanket defence and sweepers has had effect on defending skills. I think corner backs are more wing back really more attack minded. Anyway that's my last post . I wouldn't respond.

Keep up the great work on this forum. It is delight to read informative funny and at times brillant threads. Sorry again for driving the place mad.
Lovely hurling. Hopefully 2018 will be a great gaa season.
PEACE.

slegs

slegs wrote: »

Limerick have been a failure at senior but have been relatively successful at underage in recent years particularly in schools hurling and U21. You could say that a decline has been halted if anything and hurling is alive again in Limerick city. I think Limerick are a good example of the argument against the OP's view. Ultimately it has to lead to an All Ireland to be proven but the building blocks are there.

Far too soon to know where Limerick are at. The underage sides from minor down had a very poor season last year and Limerick need good underage sides every year to fix the senior problems imo.

In terms of senior hurling issues, I think for years Limerick neglected the basic underage skills and instead preferred a more physical style of hurling that is just outlawed now. The top sides of the recent years (maybe Clare aside) are capable of being physical when they have to be, but at their core are skilful hurlers. Limerick have never really gotten that balance right.

In terms of why so many football teams seem weak atm it's because a handful of teams are inordinately good. This Dublin side may as well be unbeatable for every other Leinster county, they are way ahead and if they were beaten they would still get a chance through the backdoor. The current system makes it hard for most teams to be competitive, despite giving everyone more games.

Utopia Parkway

It's very hard to be good all the time. Traditional All-Ireland winning counties like Galway, Meath, Cork, Down, etc have all produced great teams in the past but there has been plenty of lean barren periods in between.

Who has ever been consistently successful apart from Kerry? Dublin yes recently but even they have had barren spells. Maybe not any more though.

klairondavis

Sonny678 wrote: »

In the last 45 years Kildare have beaten Dublin twice and no draws.

There have been three draws in the last 25 years.....

rpurfield

Stoner wrote: »

Again I've a very good friend from Dublin. Played on our local team

Moved to Meath some years ago when his oldest was about 4.

He goes to the Dublin games with us.

One of his children, my godchild is from Dublin but plays underage for Meath.

The father lined out for their football team he was not a great footballer, he trained as a ref and has three kids with the club. He hurled with them too but not for long, he was on a Senior Hurling team in Dublin and was better than their average hurler

He said that there is a massive dislike of any of the parents from Dublin, they find out last about arrangements, they are kept out of the loop. He's never felt welcomed. They hold meetings, vote and make appointments without any of the Dublin members invited or present.

This year he has stopped helping out at the club, he's decided not to bring his kids training unless they kick up, so he's not encouraging them to play but will bring them if they want. He went as far to say that there is a horrible atmosphere in the club and he's beginning to hate it. It's the sport not the club that kept him going back.

I agree there are many Dublin supporters in these areas but some of the Meath clubs need to open their arms to the newcomers too.

He said you can wear any county top when training but kids are sent in to change if they have Dublin kit they are told to "show respect"

One of his lads is on an under 12s team. The club moved a local to run them this year without even telling the existing manager who was from Dublin and pushed to enter teams for two years as he was bring it through with his own kid. They haven't played a game in 4 months now but intend to enter the championship. His U12 son hasn't played a game against another team in months and is losing interest.

This was all arranged to put a local in charge of the team, the progress made was resented.

We'd lads from Clare, Cork and Laois on our team in the centre of the city. They wore their county tops at training.

I guess it's a complicated issue, there are no winners in these situations but they are not isolated incidents either. You haven't a hope of getting a city kid to identify with Meath in the current light, but you might if there was more of a compromise.

I've another friend from my area moved to Kildare, Newbridge. It was a completely different experience. This guy was soccer through and through his oldest was 10 when they moved and considered himself a Dub, he played GAA at school and joined a club, as a result the father helps out at the club now and the young lad has played U14 and U16 for Kildare.

Both of these guys lived on the same street in Dublin, one was welcomed by the local community and the other was not.

Both families have produced kids that have played county football, however I'm fairly sure that my godchild would transfer to Dublin if asked and "Kildare" kid would not.

Stoner your friends experience is down to the club. We'd have more Dublin people involved in our club than natives, particularly in the underage section. Most of Meath has boomed in the last 20 years and to shut out anyone who's moved into the area is stupid, I can say it's been a massive benefit to our club.

In terms of the counties not doing as well, to me Meath are only getting themselves to the place Dublin were in when they put the coaching structures in place that they are reaping the benefits of now. Like said above it's cyclical and will come around again. I don't buy this thing of kids going back in to play with Dublin either, we've a number of underage footballers of Dublin descent that have gone into Meath teams in various codes.

Bonniedog

Ironically, Meath and Kildare are experiencing the opposite of migration to Dublin. Dubs who are moving to other counties tend to be interested in sport, and GAA in particular. Many parts of Dublin are full of other migrants who have no interest in anything pertaining to our way of life, GAA included. Which is why people move. GAA is not going to solve that, unfortunately.