Anti #MeToo letter defends men's right to 'steal a kiss'

pitifulgod

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The DJ in question lost his job for comforting his friend. I have no reason doubt LN on this so I am taking it as truth.

How can you possibly tell me that was right?

But it doesn't appear to be the truth.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/garrison-keillor-axed-for-multiple-allegations-of-misconduct-mpr-exec-says

strandroad

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

A brush against you, a simple touch, a dirty comment or text -these are not in my opinion enough to make a man into a sexual deviant or to ruin his career and life over.

Sounds very dramatic.
It's not "making a man into a sexual deviant" if you are given a warning, and if you persist you suffer professional consequences up to and including losing your job. None of these things are acceptable in the workplace. It's harassment.

AudreyHepburn

strandroad wrote: »

Sounds very dramatic.
It's not "making a man into a sexual deviant" if you are given a warning, and if you persist you suffer professional consequences up to and including losing your job. None of these things are acceptable in the workplace. It's harassment.

Of course that's harassment, I never once said otherwise.

My original point on this thread was more to do with the fact that there now seems to be a desire to make every and any man in any way associated with Hollywood in some kind of deviant and I simply refuse to believe that every man in the film industry is so inclined.

To me it just smacks of a witch hunt and it belittles and mocks genuine cases of sexual assault.

s7ryf3925pivug

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course that's harassment, I never once said otherwise.

My original point on this thread was more to do with the fact that there now seems to be a desire to make every and any man in any way associated with Hollywood in some kind of deviant and I simply refuse to believe that every man in the film industry is so inclined.

To me it just smacks of a witch hunt and it belittles and mocks genuine cases of sexual assault.

-but you have no examples of this.

strandroad

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

My original point on this thread was more to do with the fact that there now seems to be a desire to make every and any man in any way associated with Hollywood in some kind of deviant and I simply refuse to believe that every man in the film industry is so inclined.

Seriously? There are probably tens of thousands of film industry men in the US alone, and we have heard about a few dozen at most. Hardly every and any.

kylith

Cocobolo55 wrote: »

If you had a million euro cheque to give to a stranger at random would you avoid doing it in case you were bothering them?

I would say 'Excuse me' and if they ignored me I would leave them alone.

Cocobolo55 wrote: »

Would you avoid saying hello to your neighbour in case you were bothering them?

No, but my neighbour isn't a random stranger. I certainly wouldn't try to hold a conversation with them if it was plainly obvious that they didn't want to.

But I really don't see what any of that has to do with trying to force a random stranger to pay attention to you because you have decided that you want them to. Do you think you are worth a million euro? Do you see every stranger as no different to someone you have lived next door to for decades? Because that's the equivalence you're suggesting with your ridiculous 'would you's.

pickarooney

lots of people wrote:

obtrusive

You Keep Using That Word. I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means

Sonnenbrille50

Sonnenbrille50 wrote: »

How do you know the individual would not find "Excuse me" to be obtrusive?

The point is that regardless of the way you approach someone, you might be making them uncomfortable or afraid, and therefore you should not do so. That person, for whatever reason, might not want the attention, so you shouldn't ever check to see if she's available. Being polite or non-threatening doesn't matter... because you don't know that she might receive a negative experience with you trying to talk to her.

Approaching a woman should only ever be done through acceptable methods, and approved locations/situations. Admittedly there's no agreed list of methods/situations/locations that are acceptable, but men should just know when it's right!

So... in other words... stop approaching women. Women will now approach you if they're interested.

I]Although I think someone should tell women (in general), that they're now the ones to initiate contact and establish any interest. [/I

Barncom

kylith wrote: »

I would say 'Excuse me' and if they ignored me I would leave them alone.



No, but my neighbour isn't a random stranger. I certainly wouldn't try to hold a conversation with them if it was plainly obvious that they didn't want to.

But I really don't see what any of that has to do with trying to force a random stranger to pay attention to you because you have decided that you want them to. Do you think you are worth a million euro? Do you see every stranger as no different to someone you have lived next door to for decades? Because that's the equivalence you're suggesting with your ridiculous 'would you's.

How do you the individual would not find "Excuse me" to be obtrusive?

The argument being made is that you shouldn't approach someone you don't know because it might be obrusive. Likewise then you shouldn't say hello to a neighbour or ask a colleague how their weekend was as you don't know if that is obtrusive or not to the recipient.

Approaching someone during the day doesn't have to be such a melodrama, you approach, deliver an opener, chat for a few seconds, gauge if they are open to further conversation or flirting, gauge if you want to continue to converse or flirt, if not, make your excuses, wish them a good day and leave. It's not a big deal, welcome to humanity and socialising

JupiterKid

I get the distinct impression that quite a few boardsies actually lack pretty basic social skills.

s7ryf3925pivug

JupiterKid wrote: »

I get the distinct impression that quite a few boardsies actually lack pretty basic social skills.

Doesn't take skills, just basic courtesy.

meeeeh

This is actually a very good opinion piece on the whole controversy and I agree with a lot of it especially the points about rewriting offensive books, boycotting movies or exhibitions and so on.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/14/french-feminists-catherine-deneuve-metoo-letter-sexual-harassment

Stonedpilot

Oranage2 wrote: »

Some women feel uncomfortable by a man simply looking at them.

Some do or say they do. Others crave and love the attention. Love being admired (why you think instagram and snapchat have hundreds of millions of sexy selfies by women?).

Attitudes differ.

NI24

I find it highly amusing that Catherine Deneuve is signing her name to a piece that starts off with "While rape is a crime..." considering that she has routinely defended a convicted rapist ("he's suffered enough", she says).  But I guess he doesn't count because he bolstered her career.

As for the petition itself, it's over two months old and went over like a lead balloon in France.  Many accused the supporters of it of being a wealthy class who doesn't want to mess with the status quo (in France).  Attitudes like hers are increasingly rare among young French and it frightens many French to think men may be held accountable for their poor behavior.

Wombatman

NI24 wrote: »

I find it highly amusing that Catherine Deneuve is signing her name to a piece that starts off with "While rape is a crime..." considering that she has routinely defended a convicted rapist ("he's suffered enough", she says).  But I guess he doesn't count because he bolstered her career.

As for the petition itself, it's over two months old and went over like a lead balloon in France.  Many accused the supporters of it of being a wealthy class who doesn't want to mess with the status quo (in France).  Attitudes like hers are increasingly rare among young French and it frightens many French to think men may be held accountable for their poor behavior.

Two months old? What? The open letter referred to in the OP was published in Le Monde last week. By all accounts opinion is very much divided on it in France. Where did you get the lead balloon bit from?

Wibbs

NI24 wrote: »

Attitudes like hers are increasingly rare among young French and it frightens many French to think men may be held accountable for their poor behavior.

Yes and no. As the article linked above by Meeeeh notes French feminism is different to the anglosphere version. It's far more "old style" feminism minus the American college campus gender war BS. That's a recent import and in the minority. Plus as the article also notes the French as a culture love a good rant, particularly a controversial one, so they can have a good rant back. As a culture they would be far less "politically correct" compared to some.

NI24

Wombatman wrote: »

Two months old? What? The open letter referred to in the OP was published in Le Monde last week. By all accounts opinion is very much divided on it in France. Where did you get the lead balloon bit from?

I have family in France who said it happened two months ago.  Maybe they're confusing it with something else?  They said the balancetonporc was a success in spite of it.  They specifically mentioned women in regards to "it". 
Lead balloon bit is my opinon on it.  I've been reading opinions on it (as best I can, my French is poor) and it's mainly unpopular with people of a certain age and class bracket.