Star Trek The Motion Picture

Samuel T. Cogley

Anyone else watched this recently and thought it's got better with age? I found the 70's retro kind of cool today on about my 100th watch.

The_Valeyard

No.

Just felt it did not work.


Wrath of Khan, anyday.

Goodshape

Always liked TMP a lot.

It's difficult to even compare it to Wrath of Khan – or any of the other movies for that mater. Nothing else in Star Trek history quite has the tone or pacing of TMP. It's easy to see why they didn't stick with it but I'm glad we got one.

Inviere

Goodshape wrote: »

Always liked TMP a lot.

It's difficult to even compare it to Wrath of Khan – or any of the other movies for that mater. Nothing else in Star Trek history quite has the tone or pacing of TMP. It's easy to see why they didn't stick with it but I'm glad we got one.

Same, enjoy it a lot. It’s in a weird no mans land between TOS and where Trek began evolving with TWOK. It’s unique

Goodshape

I read something recently about the decisions made going into Wrath of Khan, where the creators were given all the freedom that a (relatively) tiny budget would afford them to re-do Trek from the ground up.

Keeping in mind that at the time there was really only TOS and TMP. Star Trek was a likely hit but by no means at all was it a sure thing. And TMP was a big disappointment.

In the years since the films and all the spin-offs, the fans, and then the writers to an extent, have retconned explanations as to how they got from TOS to TMP to TWOK, but at the time the thinking was pretty much "forget TOS, forget TMP, take these characters and this idea and make something that works!".

Aside from a ship model they couldn't afford to replace, there is really no connection between TMP and TWOK. And barely any connection between TWOK and the look TOS except for characters and a handful of concepts (federation, Enterprise, etc.)

While TMP talks of a refit to explain the (obviously totally new) ship and mentions what people have been up to since the series (which is supposed to be ~5 years prior), TWOK does no such thing.

TWOK was intended to be a reboot, visual and otherwise, much like Discovery is doing now. Whereas TMP was very much the continuation of TOS.


Anyway, I'd not considered any of that before. Thought it was interesting, and makes a lot of sense when you consider it.

Spear

I always likes TMP, but it's very much a product of it's times. It has the 70's approach of a larger general sci-fi concept, e.g. what happens when one of those probes from the 70's is returned to us, and only then is the rest of the story/characters fitted around it. So as mentioned aabove, TWOK is very different, with the genesis concept only being a Mcguffin for the character driven story instead. You could swap out pretty much all the Star Trek stuff from TMP and it'd still be pretty much the same movie I suspect. I still like it, but it's best treated in isolation from the rest of the canon.

AMKC

I seen it last year in the IFI and just loved seeing it on the big screen. It is a stunning looking film that some people will like and some will not. Its either love it of loathe it. I love it. Its the Star Trek version of 2001 a Space Odyssey.

flazio

It's was OK. Some scenes like the unnecessary fly around the Enterprise before docking could have been done without or severely shortened.

pixelburp

It can't be overstated how influential Star Wars in 1977 was to cinema, and SciFi more specifically. While 2001 was the obvious last landmark in SciFi cinema, 1970s Science Fiction was broadly a more contemplative, speculative artform IMO; films such as Solaris or Silent Running (sidebar, one of the great forgotten SciFi films, and worth checking out if you haven't heard/seen it) had space presented almost like this great, quiet lake, ships sailing across a static cosmos while humanity reasoned on its lot. Equally, these films tended to have very strong social or political messages, even when the feature itself was intentionally more exciting or crowd-pleasing, such as Soylant Green or, uh, Rollerball(!). SciFi had changed quite a lot from the flying saucers of the 50s into a genre more about introspection and where we were going as a species. Occasionally while on a set of rollerskates.

So ironically, although Star Wars arguably kickstarted Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the actual content had already dated very poorly and was released perhaps 4, 5 years too late. Don't get me wrong, from what I recall of it, TMP is an absolute chore to get through & has all the pacing of a tax audit, but it had the aforementioned tone of those earlier 70s Sci-Fi and was only going to flop against the backdrop of the SciFi cosmos realigned into a type more exciting, more full of adventure behind every star.

Goodshape

flazio wrote: »

the unnecessary fly around the Enterprise before docking could have been done without or severely shortened.

I love that scene. Was so disappointed that they didn't do anything similar in Star Trek '09. By comparison it felt like we never really got a good look at the '09 ship. Just a peek out a window or a jaunty-angled, zooming, spinning, rushed piece of camera work.

That slow fly-by with the Jerry Goldsmith theme in TMP was breathtaking.

Samuel T. Cogley

Goodshape wrote: »

I love that scene. Was so disappointed that they didn't do anything similar in Star Trek '09. By comparison it felt like we never really got a good look at the '09 ship. Just a peek out a window or a jaunty-angled, zooming, spinning, rushed piece of camera work.

That slow fly-by with the Jerry Goldsmith theme in TMP was breathtaking.

+1

Inviere

flazio wrote: »

It's was OK. Some scenes like the unnecessary fly around the Enterprise before docking could have been done without or severely shortened.

That's an incredible scene, and the definitive way to introduce your audience to a new ship. It really made a character out of the ship, something dreadfully lacking in more modern versions of Trek.

Goodshape wrote: »

I love that scene. Was so disappointed that they didn't do anything similar in Star Trek '09. By comparison it felt like we never really got a good look at the '09 ship. Just a peek out a window or a jaunty-angled, zooming, spinning, rushed piece of camera work.

That slow fly-by with the Jerry Goldsmith theme in TMP was breathtaking.

Same with the Enterprise - E. A few teasing angles of it is all we got! For the ship that was set to replace the glorious 1701 - D, we literally "barely knew" the successor.

AMKC

flazio wrote: »

It's was OK. Some scenes like the unnecessary fly around the Enterprise before docking could have been done without or severely shortened.

No way could you shorten that. That would be sacrilege. That is an awesome scene. Watch the 09 Star Trek if that's all you want. Us real trekkies love that scene and that ship.

Goodshape wrote: »

I love that scene. Was so disappointed that they didn't do anything similar in Star Trek '09. By comparison it felt like we never really got a good look at the '09 ship. Just a peek out a window or a jaunty-angled, zooming, spinning, rushed piece of camera work.

That slow fly-by with the Jerry Goldsmith theme in TMP was breathtaking.

I am glad they did not do it in the 09 one. That JJ ship is no where near as nice as the Prime Universe Star Trek Enterprise.

Inviere wrote: »

That's an incredible scene, and the definitive way to introduce your audience to a new ship. It really made a character out of the ship, something dreadfully lacking in more modern versions of Trek.

Agreed totally and this is why its such an awesome scene.

Same with the Enterprise - E. A few teasing angles of it is all we got! For the ship that was set to replace the glorious 1701 - D, we literally "barely knew" the successor.

I think the way they introduced the E was nice. They were never going to beat the introduction for the Enterprise in ''The Motion Picture'' no matter what they done.

Endaaaagh

Anybody here see the directors edition? I picked it up on on DVD a few years ago. Never realised it was a different edition until I put it on an noted some scenes that I didn't quite remember, especially a lot of the shots of V'Ger which had been replaced with updated special effects (not George Lucas levels of meddling) It really did improve the movie. Must dig it out again and watch it sometime.

PhiloCypher

AMKC wrote: »

No way could you shorten that. That would be sacrilege. That is an awesome scene. Watch the 09 Star Trek if that's all you want. Us real trekkies love that scene and that ship.


I am glad they did not do it in the 09 one. That JJ ship is no where near as nice as the Prime Universe Star Trek Enterprise.



I think the way they introduced the E was nice. They were never going to beat the introduction for the Enterprise in ''The Motion Picture'' no matter what they done.

I wonder did them not thinking the cgi would hold up to a pre longed flyby aswel as a model, factor into their thoughts.

Spear

I was going to post something of a defence of the lengthy flyby sequence, how it was the first glimpse the audience had of the Enterprise in days of no internet, no VCRs and they were playing to nostalgia. But apparently the sequence was just poorly produced and delivered too late for them to properly edit it down....

Johnny Storm

Its the scenes of the Enterprise flying along VGer that really drag IMHO

AMKC

PhiloCypher wrote: »

I wonder did them not thinking the cgi would hold up to a pre longed flyby aswel as a model, factor into their thoughts.

Yes maybe that was a factor.

Spear wrote: »

I was going to post something of a defence of the lengthy flyby sequence, how it was the first glimpse the audience had of the Enterprise in days of no internet, no VCRs and they were playing to nostalgia. But apparently the sequence was just poorly produced and delivered too late for them to properly edit it down....

I for one am glad it did not get edited down and that they did not have the time to do it.

starvin

AMKC wrote: »

Yes maybe that was a factor.



I for one am glad it did not get edited down and that they did not have the time to do it.

I have to agree with you, I love that scene and the music is just perfect.

It was a completely different era for film making, the introduction to the refit Enterprise was slow and deliberate, allowing the audience (like Kirk) to soak in every little detail on the ship. CGI doesn’t compete with a large scale model for shots like that.

pah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQTzYp756o

I had forgotten the TNG theme was pulled from this. I don't think it's used much at all in the other TOS movies?

pixelburp

Oh lordy, I dunno folks, call me Killjoy but that flyby is excruciating to sit through: Trek is scarcely the first franchise to indulge in fan service, but there's usually some deference towards basic concepts of narrative or pacing. Even some dialogue between Scotty and Kirk, chatting about engineering changes - ANYTHING - to break up the monotony, would make the scene more palatable. We certainly didn't need a 20+ second shot of that shuttle. Turrning. So. Slowly. There's a good reason TMP is considered a bit boring to watch

starvin

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh lordy, I dunno folks, call me Killjoy but that flyby is excruciating to sit through: Trek is scarcely the first franchise to indulge in fan service, but there's usually some deference towards basic concepts of narrative or pacing. Even some dialogue between Scotty and Kirk, chatting about engineering changes - ANYTHING - to break up the monotony, would make the scene more palatable. We certainly didn't need a 20+ second shot of that shuttle. Turrning. So. Slowly. There's a good reason TMP is considered a bit boring to watch

I think when they were on the way out to the ship, it was very apt for the two of them not to talk. Kirk was straining to see the ship through the dry dock and Scotty (having spent so long refitting the Enterprise)was just teasing him by not letting him (or the audience) see too much. By flying past the front of the ship and a slow turn around was just prolonging the introduction. It’s only then you get a good view it.

Samuel T. Cogley

I love that scene - some of the best acting Shatner has ever done!

Tony EH

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Anyone else watched this recently and thought it's got better with age? I found the 70's retro kind of cool today on about my 100th watch.

Probably my favorite Star Trek film with the original crew. Followed by 'The Undiscovered Country' Everything else is an in between mix and I just cannot watch TNG movies. They're generally pretty bad.

Kid me was WTF? when I first saw the first Star Trek film on TV, though. I just couldn't reconcile the film with the TV show, which was everywhere when I was growing up.


Just as an aside, 'Star Trek: The Motion Picture' has always reminded me of just how different movies used to be to TV shows - because it was a direct continuation of a much loved TV show. Nowadays, a lot are pretty interchangeable, but back then, when you saw a film you were getting something special that you just didn't get on TV.

Goodshape

Tony EH wrote: »

Kid me was WTF? when I first saw the first Star Trek film on TV, though. I just couldn't reconcile the film with the TV show, which was everywhere when I was growing up.

Heh, I had the opposite reaction as a kid

I'd have seen a few of the films first in the 80s and fell in love with the whole thing. I distinctly remember seeing my first episode of TOS on early morning TV and laughing at it. I genuinely thought it was a spoof of the movies I knew! Those styrofoam rocks, pyjama costumes, the ship traveling around on wobbly strings. I sat around waiting for the punchline :pac:

But I grew to love it

pixelburp

starvin wrote: »

I think when they were on the way out to the ship, it was very apt for the two of them not to talk. Kirk was straining to see the ship through the dry dock and Scotty (having spent so long refitting the Enterprise)was just teasing him by not letting him (or the audience) see too much. By flying past the front of the ship and a slow turn around was just prolonging the introduction. It’s only then you get a good view it.

Yeah, it's not a hard scene to parse, the context isn't particularly difficult to work out, the problem is purely that its pacing is almost farcically glacial. Sorry, but I don't buy that 20 second shuttle turn as some graceful spaceship c*cktease - the rest of the film had an equally dreary, clunking pace.

I guarantee that scene could have been done in half the time, and been no less effective or emotional for Kirk. It didn't need to be 4+ minutes long to do the work it needed to do as part of the narrative (hell, the thrust of the film can be summarised as 'Admiral Kirk gets homesick'). But like I said, the rest of the film is equally ponderous and leaden-paced, so the Enterprise reveal was hardly an exception here.

Tony EH

Goodshape wrote: »

Heh, I had the opposite reaction as a kid

I'd have seen a few of the films first in the 80s and fell in love with the whole thing. I distinctly remember seeing my first episode of TOS on early morning TV and laughing at it. I genuinely thought it was a spoof of the movies I knew! Those styrofoam rocks, pyjama costumes, the ship traveling around on wobbly strings. I sat around waiting for the punchline

But I grew to love it

It's strange. TOS is the only Star Trek that I can watch now. I never could get into TNG. I just didn't like any of the characters, except for Data - which says a lot. I have them all there and threaten a marathon every so often, but I get bored of it too easy. I think I'm at the start of S4 at the moment - the last episode I remember watching was Picard at home fighting with his brother. If I get the urge I'll continue, but I'm not in any rush.

The other Star Trek shows just leave me as cold as ice. I get nothing out of them at all.

I suppose that none of them have anything approaching the trio of Kirk, Spock and McCoy, which was such a large part of the enjoyment of TOS.