Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

B0jangles

notobtuse wrote: »

It’s about equal justice under law. The law shouldn’t care what political party you belong to, but in Washington it apparently does, IMO.

Clinton is Schroedinger's supervillain - In control of the whole political and legal system AND powerless to rig a piddling little presidential election or shut down any one of the many Benghazi investigations.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

This is just my opinion, but an opinion shared by a large majority here in the states.

So Trump’s lawyer, Michael Cohen, had numerous locations raided because he presumably made some shady payment to a porn star, and because Trump received $150,000 from the Ukrainians for a speech.

Okay.

But didn’t Bill Clinton receive a $500,000 speaking fee from Russia?  Didn’t the Clinton Foundation receive hundreds of millions in the lead-up to her campaign for president, and didn't those 'donations' all but dry up after she lost?  Didn’t Hillary pay for specious opposition research that was used as evidence to wire-tap the Trump organization? Didn’t Hillary and her team smash phones and computers to bits after the evidence therein was subpoenaed? Didn’t Hillary and her lawyer Cheryl Mills claim attorney-client privilege when Mills herself was under investigation for obstruction?

Why have we not seen any no-knock raids by the government against Hillary Clinton and her team?

The thing is... anyone here, if they were truthful with themselves, knows no Democrat would ever be subjected to the type of investigative circus we are seeing involving Trump.  Currently, justice is not blind... it is a joke.  Many outside of the media here see that a dangerous political game is now being played... And revolt may be in the near future.

Simple question..

Who's in power? If these things are totally specious , then who is controlling the agenda , the Dems who control nothing right now?

The Republicans control all parts of government..Every one involved in the approval of the warrant for Cohen are Republicans and most are Trump appointees, so I'm not seeing the puppet master here.

Or is the suggestion that only Democrats would stoop so low as to shaft a political opponent and that the reason that the Clinton family and extended others are "getting off scot free" is because Republicans are such pillars of truth, justice and the American way that they would never attempt something so base?

IMO, right now I’d say the Never-Trump Wing of the Republican party is currently in power in Washington and are committed to cleanse America of the Trump stench.  It’s a heck of a swamp.  And unfortunately I fear they will succeed in miring Trump in so much legal minutiae that he won’t have time to enact his mandate.

And when it comes to justice, two sets of rules is not justice.

oscarBravo

notobtuse wrote: »

IMO, right now I’d say the Never-Trump Wing of the Republican party is currently in power in Washington and are committed to cleanse America of the Trump stench.

America can't be cleansed of the Trump stench quickly enough, but I'm not seeing any particular enthusiasm from Ryan, McConnell et al to do so.

aloyisious

Looking at Don's media conference yesterday, I note he only referred to the FBI raids as disgraceful. I assume from that that a lawyer told him to be careful in what he said.

Three locations raided and no appearance by the resident as occupant or lawyer before the media complaining about heavy-handed raids. Where is Mr Cohen? Was he in the White House advising Don not to dig a bigger hole?

Would Don [or his handlers] even allow Mr Cohen approach or contact him for fear of contamination as Don said he knew nothing about the payment to Stormy? Has Mr Cohen had his White House credentials put on hold?

Has Don [as he seemed to refer to at the conference when he mentioned counsels] got other personal lawyers unconnected to White House affairs?

I'm waiting for the next appearance of the lawyer fond of the million dollar fines on CNN on behalf of Mr Cohen, if he is still the lawyer on record for Mr Cohen.

aloyisious

@notobtuse: It's two separate investigations now. One by Rob Mueller and Co into possible collusion by Don and/or his campaign with a foreign government and it's agents, the other by a separate legal [NYC] branch of the Federal Govt and FBI into whether a US citizen [Mr Cohen] used personally obtained bank funds for use outside the terms the bank may have agreed, as standard practice, for such a loan. Fraud is a term used to describe illegal use of funds obtained from a bank outside the terms standard for the loan. Mr Cohen is a lawyer.

Edit: just seen this [IMO, right now I’d say the Never-Trump Wing of the Republican party is currently in power in Washington and are committed to cleanse America of the Trump stench. It’s a heck of a swamp. And unfortunately I fear they will succeed in miring Trump in so much legal minutiae that he won’t have time to enact his mandate.] from you above. That seem's to say that it's not Crooked Hillary Don should be popping off about, but Mitch & Co, in the way he's frustrated by his error in appointing Jeff as AG, it landing him [Don] in the **** by recusing himself instead of sacrificing himself on Don's altar.

spacecoyote

Another one bites the dust. Homeland security chief now sacked

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/us/politics/tom-bossert-trump-homeland-security.amp.html

strandroad

Is there any chance that the Stormy affair is purely coincidental, and the raids are about Russian money laundering through Trump property, a line allegedly present in the collusion investigation?

jobbridge4life

notobtuse wrote: »

If Trump is guilty of something, then so be it (although what it has to do with Russian collusion is beyond me).  If others are guilty of the same or worse, the law shouldn’t be ignored simply because someone lost an election and is a member of a favored party.  Knowing you can get away with illegalities only empowers others to do the same going forward, IMO.  

Or perhaps we should only recruit potential candidates for POTUS from monasteries and nunneries going forward.

Hillary Clinton was the subject of numerous, prolonged investigations (not to mention spurious gossip and falsities) for several decades. HRC was probably the most scrutinized individual in the history of the USA. For anyone to try and cry 'due process' or 'equality under the law' about a man who lead chants of 'lock her up' about his major political opposition, who lies literally all the time, every day is not laughable it is contemptible.

Save your false concerns about monasteries and nunneries for a man who hasn't a proven track record of lying about his sexual exploits with celebrities, sexualised children, paid off porn stars and strippers, defended a peadophile and throughout his entire life proven himself to be a swindler and hatemonger.

Leroy42

strandroad wrote: »

Is there any chance that the Stormy affair is purely coincidental, and the raids are about Russian money laundering through Trump property, a line allegedly present in the collusion investigation?

There was a guest on one of the CNN shows saying that there is simply no way that they raised a warrant to go after the personal lawyer of a sitting POTUS based on election campaign fraud and possible bank fraud of $130k.

As I had stated in a previous post, going after Cohen, particularly in the way they did (not via subpoena but no knock warrant in 3 locations) indicated that this is pretty serious.

In the same segment another guest stated that the only other warrant taken out was in regards to Manafort and 96 days later he was charged. Their opinion seemed to be that this is much bigger than Stormy Daniels and is really serious for Cohen, and by extension, Trump

Quin_Dub

strandroad wrote: »

Is there any chance that the Stormy affair is purely coincidental, and the raids are about Russian money laundering through Trump property, a line allegedly present in the collusion investigation?

From what is being said , the warrant covered documents related to the Stormy Daniels issue , but anything else criminal they find on any other issue could very likely be used.

Terry

spacecoyote wrote: »

Another one bites the dust. Homeland security chief now sacked

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/us/politics/tom-bossert-trump-homeland-security.amp.html

He probably disagreed with the extreme monitoring of the press.

Dohnjoe

Interesting piece on here on why this raid might be so significant

Fifty-one-year-old New Yorker Michael Cohen has a law degree, but his past duties for Mr Trump were not typical attorney obligations.

While he did provide counsel, he also was one of the Trump Organization's lead negotiators on foreign business dealings, the man who would send threatening legal letters to Trump critics and - at least in the Stormy Daniels episode - someone who would arrange to keep potentially embarrassing information about Mr Trump under wraps.

"They say I'm Mr Trump's pitbull, that I'm his right-hand man," Mr Cohen said in 2011. "What I am is a loyal employee. I like the man a lot."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41419191

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

strandroad wrote: »

Is there any chance that the Stormy affair is purely coincidental, and the raids are about Russian money laundering through Trump property, a line allegedly present in the collusion investigation?

From what is being said , the warrant covered documents related to the Stormy Daniels issue , but anything else criminal they find on any other issue could very likely be used.

I don't believe they can use things not related to the warrant in court.  But that doesn't stop them from illegally leaking information to the press in order to do what they can to take Trump down.  Sort of an insurance policy against Trump.

notobtuse

metaoblivia wrote: »

By no means is your opinion shared by a large majority in the US.

I think it is.  By most average Republicans and Independents.  Last week Rasmussen Reports had Trump at a 51% job favorable job approval rating amongst likely voters.  I believe many people are starting to see all this as a witch hunt against a dully elected president.  And they don't take kindly to it.

Water John

Who is 'they', who want to take down Trump???

Professor Moriarty

notobtuse wrote: »

I don't believe they can use things not related to the warrant in court.  But that doesn't stop them from illegally leaking information to the press in order to do what they can to take Trump down.  Sort of an insurance policy against Trump.

What do you expect when The Donald has consistently attacked the DOJ, the FBI and the media since being elected? A really stupid thing to do unless you know they have stuff on you and you're trying to ameliorate the damage. Either way, it's just stupid. But you can't fix stupid.

notobtuse

oscarBravo wrote: »

America can't be cleansed of the Trump stench quickly enough, but I'm not seeing any particular enthusiasm from Ryan, McConnell et al to do so.

Ryan will be leaving office soon.  McConnell is no help to Trump.  I didn’t vote for Trump in the primary but am mighty happy about what he has done so far as POTUS.  In his actions as president he is probably the most conservative and most accomplished president in modern times with his time in office so far.  Yeah sure, his bombastic temperament and tweets are cringe-worthy (and even wearing me out), but when it comes to effectiveness... actions speak louder than words.  I would be happy with 7 more years of Trump at the helm.

oscarBravo

notobtuse wrote: »

I didn’t vote for Trump in the primary but am mighty happy about what he has done so far as POTUS.

Apart from appoint a conservative nutjob to the seat that the GOP disgracefully held open on the Supreme Court, and slash taxes for billionaires, what has he done that makes you happy?

Professor Moriarty

notobtuse wrote: »

Ryan will be leaving office soon.  McConnell is no help to Trump.  I didn’t vote for Trump in the primary but am mighty happy about what he has done so far as POTUS.  In his actions as president he is probably the most conservative and most accomplished president in modern times with his time in office so far.  Yeah sure, his bombastic temperament and tweets are cringe-worthy (and even wearing me out), but when it comes to effectiveness... actions speak louder than words.  I would be happy with 7 more years of Trump at the helm.

He's unified the country, put manners on global warming, cemented good relations across the world, sorted the deficit and various other amazing accomplishments. Yeah it's all good.

Here's the thing. He doesn't have an agenda other than to feed his ego. He doesn't give a sh1t about anything else. The Donald will be pushing up daisies while your kids are dealing with his amazing legacy.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

notobtuse wrote: »

If Trump is guilty of something, then so be it (although what it has to do with Russian collusion is beyond me).  If others are guilty of the same or worse, the law shouldn’t be ignored simply because someone lost an election and is a member of a favored party.  Knowing you can get away with illegalities only empowers others to do the same going forward, IMO.  

Or perhaps we should only recruit potential candidates for POTUS from monasteries and nunneries going forward.

Favoured by whom?

All the Republicans that set-up and are running the investigation ? , The GOP controlled Senate and House ?

The whole "Deep State Cabal" thing falls flat when this simple question is asked..

If they are so all powerful and commanding and can conjure up all this allegedly false information and indictments , why did they wait until AFTER Trump got elected to do it?

Why wasn't all this stuff the October surprise instead of the rehashed Clinton email thing?

It simply does not pass any kind of sniff test.

It is obvious Democrats are favored by the Fourth Estate.

IMO, Sessions should resign and Mueller be fired.  The both are not doing what they were appointed to do.

Why did they wait until after Trump got elected?  Because nobody ever thought Trump would get elected to the presidency.  I think the establishment Republicans had settled on keeping control of Congress with a Democrat president in office.  That way they could maintain some level of balance in government. They did manage to keep Obama's wish to lurch the country to the far left in check and felt they could do the same with HRC, IMO, and Clinton would have just continued Obama's policies.  Who knew Obama's efforts to move the country farther left then they felt comfortable with would put Trump in office.

notobtuse

Water John wrote: »

Who is 'they', who want to take down Trump???

IMO, Democrats, Progressives, the Media, the Deep State, and establishment Republicans.

metaoblivia

notobtuse wrote: »

I think it is.  By most average Republicans and Independents.  Last week Rasmussen Reports had Trump at a 51% job favorable job approval rating amongst likely voters.  I believe many people are starting to see all this as a witch hunt against a dully elected president.  And they don't take kindly to it.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_apr10

He's currently at 51% disapproval and 48% approval according to your source.
Either way, 51% is hardly a vast majority. Only 31% strongly approve while 42% strongly disapprove.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

I don't believe they can use things not related to the warrant in court.

 

It depends on what they find - My understanding is that if they were to find evidence of unrelated criminal activity (but it has to be criminal) , as long as it was discovered as part of the lawful actions of the original warrant then it can be used.

notobtuse wrote: »

But that doesn't stop them from illegally leaking information to the press in order to do what they can to take Trump down.  Sort of an insurance policy against Trump.

More "Deep State" stuff.. There really isn't any evidence of this..

Thepoet85

notobtuse wrote:

IMO, Sessions should resign and Mueller be fired. The both are not doing what they were appointed to do.

How do you know that Mueller isn't doing what he was hired to do. Just because it's not plastered on social media, doesn't mean he isn't doing what he's been asked to.

It took a few years to investigate Nixon. Calls for Mueller to be fired seem desperate.

Leroy42

notobtuse wrote: »

It is obvious Democrats are favored by the Fourth Estate.

OK, so show us then. I can't see it. I see abuses on both sides, but I fail to see how the Dems are being preferred.

notobtuse wrote: »

IMO, Sessions should resign and Mueller be fired.  The both are not doing what they were appointed to do.

What do you think they were appointed to do?

notobtuse wrote: »

Why did they wait until after Trump got elected?  Because nobody ever thought Trump would get elected to the presidency.  I think the establishment Republicans had settled on keeping control of Congress with a Democrat president in office.  That way they could maintain some level of balance in government. They did manage to keep Obama's wish to lurch the country to the far left in check and felt they could do the same with HRC, IMO, and Clinton would have just continued Obama's policies.  Who knew Obama's efforts to move the country farther left then they felt comfortable with would put Trump in office.

So they were simply impotent against Trump when he announced his candidacy. Were powerless to do anything during the primaries and were unable to do anything whilst the campaign was on? But now suddenly, they have got everything on him.

Except of course making him give us his conflicts of interests, or making him abide by the not employing siblings rule.

So wait, you think the GOP were happy with being in control of the senate with a DNC POTUS, but faced with a full deck they are suddenly unhappy? That makes no sense.

BabyCheeses

notobtuse wrote: »

IMO, Democrats, Progressives, the Media, the Deep State, and establishment Republicans.

Why would Trump appoint people who are part of the Illuminati?

Professor Moriarty

metaoblivia wrote: »

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_apr10

He's currently at 51% disapproval and 48% approval according to your source.
Either way, 51% is hardly a vast majority. Only 31% strongly approve while 42% strongly disapprove.

Rasmussen is an outlier and always has been. In the past two weeks, Gallup, Ipsos and Quinnipiac have him at around 40% approval.

notobtuse

aloyisious wrote: »

@notobtuse: It's two separate investigations now. One by Rob Mueller and Co into possible collusion by Don and/or his campaign with a foreign government and it's agents, the other by a separate legal [NYC] branch of the Federal Govt and FBI into whether a US citizen [Mr Cohen] used personally obtained bank funds for use outside the terms the bank may have agreed, as standard practice, for such a loan. Fraud is a term used to describe illegal use of funds obtained from a bank outside the terms standard for the loan. Mr Cohen is a lawyer.

Edit: just seen this [IMO, right now I’d say the Never-Trump Wing of the Republican party is currently in power in Washington and are committed to cleanse America of the Trump stench.  It’s a heck of a swamp.  And unfortunately I fear they will succeed in miring Trump in so much legal minutiae that he won’t have time to enact his mandate.] from you above. That seem's to say that it's not Crooked Hillary Don should be popping off about, but Mitch & Co, in the way he's frustrated by his error in appointing Jeff as AG, it landing him [Don] in the **** by recusing himself instead of sacrificing himself on Don's altar.

You're right about the loan.  If it was loaned by the bank with a particular intent and then the money was wired oversees, he could be looking at 30 years in jail.  But many of those type of loans are essentially lines of credit with no particular intent.  I'm sure we will find out the form of loan, shortly.

Leroy42

And how do you know that Rasmussen aren't part of the deep state as well, I mean they get paid by the media. Surely they are trying to lure you into thinking he is doing ok, or something

metaoblivia

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Rasmussen is an outlier and always has been. In the past two weeks, Gallup, Ipsos and Quinnipiac have him at around 40% approval.

I was just about to add a post with a round up of all polls, which shows Rasmussen as the most Trump friendly - and even that one has his disapproval rating at 51%.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html