Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

amandstu

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

TBF to Comey, he did say that The Donald's hands weren't particularly small.

toupée

Professor Moriarty

amandstu wrote: »

toupée

That too. He said that he thought his hair was real. Damning with faint praise.

Beechwoodspark

What time is this big comey interview airing at tonight does anyone know

mcmoustache

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

What time is this big comey interview airing at tonight does anyone know

10PM eastern which would be 3AM our time unfortunately.

Nody

While outside of Washington DC the new NAFTA deal is apparently doing good progress; however...

Pence also revealed that the topic of funding for President Trump's proposed border wall did not come up in his meeting with Pena Nieto.

Pena Nieto is the current president of Mexico as a reference for those not aware.

PropJoe10

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

TBF to Comey, he did say that The Donald's hands weren't particularly small.

Still petty to bring that stuff up though, for a career Justice Department official and former deputy AG, its not particularly classy.

Can't believe he'd lie under oath about the loyalty stuff though. I watched most of his testimony to Congress and he was a very believable witness. Articulate to say the least.

everlast75

I'm stunned to see reports of Trump's popularity.
It is, in a way, more disturbing than his behaviour as President.

I read a quote about America recently which struck a chord with me, as it would explain a lot...

'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'

Isaac Asimov

Peregrinus

everlast75 wrote: »

I'm stunned to see reports of Trump's popularity.
It is, in a way, more disturbing than his behaviour as President.

I read a quote about America recently which struck a chord with me, as it would explain a lot...

'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'

Isaac Asimov

Well, these things are relative. Trump's popularity may have take a recent modest uptick, since there are a material number of Americans who buy into the notion that something is accomplished by launching cruise missiles. But he remains the most consistently unpopular president since approval ratings began, which was 73 years ago.

Various polls have found that Trump is more popular than haemorrhoids, more popular than cockroaches, etc. None of this translates into Trump being actually popular.

everlast75

If Hannity losing his collective shît is anything to go by, DJT is going to go nuclear (hopefully not literally) after the Comey interview

ECO_Mental

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Still petty to bring that stuff up though, for a career Justice Department official and former deputy AG, its not particularly classy.

Yeah kinda a bit unsure of all of this myself but its great fun and as you say its a but petty and not classy. But unfortunately I'm going to give him a "mulligan" as the good old Christians would say, as Trump is already down in the gutter and loves the personal insults "Little Marco" etc so he's going to have to suck it up now. Unfortunately with any school yard bully sometimes you cant take the high road and have to get down in the trenches to beat them.



With Trump its all about his image personally insulting his appearance will drive him crazy. You gotta remember Comey's rep has been trawled through mud for the last year by Trump so fair play to him for fighting back I'd say.

Peregrinus

Comey's big message is that, from a close observation of Trump, he can confirm that Trump is unfitted by character and temperament to serve as President of the United States. All the talk about Trump having his own hair, and whether his hands are tiny, and how he deals with stories about his sexual proclivities and personal standards, need to be seen in this light. The issue of public concern is not that Trump does or does not have small hands; it's that Trump allegedly worries about this, obsesses about this, allows it to distract him from events and affect his judgments about people. All of this feeds into the larger question of his fitness for office.

Whether or not you believe those allegations, they are matters of legitimate public interest. If Comey has light to cast on this, I wouldn't criticise him for addressing such issues in his book. Yes, it's distasteful, but so is gastric surgery. "Distasteful" doesn't mean "unnecessary" or "unimportant".

Hande hoche!

Bad timing on ABC's part that the interview comes so shortly after the Syria strike. Still will be curious as to how Comey's book sells compared to Fire and Fury.

Professor Moriarty

everlast75 wrote: »

I'm stunned to see reports of Trump's popularity.
It is, in a way, more disturbing than his behaviour as President.

I read a quote about America recently which struck a chord with me, as it would explain a lot...

'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'

Isaac Asimov

He's at 40% in the latest polls which is just 5% above his lowest since becoming POTUS. Essentially, he's been at an average of about 38%. You may have read the Rasmussen poll, which The Donald retweeted, showing him at 50%. Rasmussen is not to be taken seriously as it is consistently at variance with almost all other polls.

Captain Obvious

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Still petty to bring that stuff up though, for a career Justice Department official and former deputy AG, its not particularly classy.

Considering the level of personal abuse, harassment and professional sacrifice he's been subject to I can't really blame him for the odd cheap shot.

everlast75

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He's at 40% in the latest polls which is just 5% above his lowest since becoming POTUS. Essentially, he's been at an average of about 38%. You may have read the Rasmussen poll, which The Donald retweeted, showing him at 50%. Rasmussen is not to be taken seriously as it is consistently at variance with almost all other polls.

I did see but disregarded the Rasmussen poles. I was referring to 38% plus.

That is still a staggering figure when one considers the mires of shít he is in.

Water John

Everlast, Comey made the point that, the people of the USA must take ownership of having elected Trump. I think that would be the most important longer term message.
Comey sees impeachment as giving the voters, a free pass. Not having to take responsibility for their actions.

Comey really knows how to press, Trump's trigger points.

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

Everlast, Comey made the point that, the people of the USA must take ownership of having elected Trump. I think that would be the most important longer term message.
Comey sees impeachment as giving the voters, a free pass. Not having to take responsibility for their actions.

Comey really knows how to press, Trump's trigger points.

Assuming he's also got it in for the GOP, who stood with The Donald or looked the other way when he was fired, then he might be looking at them taking a hammering in the mid terms. Remember, if The Donald goes then we have President Pence who will give the GOP an initial bounce.

everlast75

Water John wrote: »

Everlast, Comey made the point that, the people of the USA must take ownership of having elected Trump. I think that would be the most important longer term message.
Comey sees impeachment as giving the voters, a free pass. Not having to take responsibility for their actions.

Comey really knows how to press, Trump's trigger points.

Listen... I would take impeachment OR being voted out in a heartbeat. Or even better, both.

The problem is that America is so divided those that like Trump think Comey is Deep State so him saying that will have no impact. I do agree that America must take ownership and let's hope they do.

That said, i thank god every day for stormy daniels and the ineptitude of Cohen. I believe that saga will be Trump's undoing.

pixelburp

The problem is, it doesn't matter if Trump leaves in the near future in ignominy, or in 2024 after 2 terms, this entire election cycle has demonstrated that there are deep divisions and structural / cultural problems in America that go way beyond the shock election of a celebrity caricature. There's something fundamentally broken about democracy in the USA and I couldn't even speculate where you begin to fix it - beyond nuclear / crazy options like devolving the USA into separate republics and starting again (like I said, crazy). It does seem like there are some vocal, healthy grassroots organisations popping up as a result of Trump's success, but it's hard to know how much power they can influence given the decks are so stacked against them at the minute.

Zubeneschamali

everlast75 wrote: »

That is still a staggering figure when one considers the mires of shít he is in.

No, this is normal. American politics is a team sport, and even though Trump was not the pick of the Republican team insiders, he is the face of the team and supporters will back him until the end.

Some context:

The announcement of an historic Vietnam peace settlement on January 23rd resulted in a leap in Nixon's approval rating to 67% -- but also demonstrated how short-lived the effects of such international events on public opinion can be.

Nixon's surge in approval evaporated almost as quickly as it appeared. The relentless uncovering of damaging information about the Watergate scandal through the spring and summer of 1973 led to a steady deterioration in public approval of Nixon month by month. By May, Nixon's rating had dropped to 44%, and by August, it was at 31% -- representing a 36% drop in about six months. (A year later, in August 1974 when he resigned from office, Nixon's rating was 24%)

Professor Moriarty

everlast75 wrote: »

I'm stunned to see reports of Trump's popularity.
It is, in a way, more disturbing than his behaviour as President.

I read a quote about America recently which struck a chord with me, as it would explain a lot...

'Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'

Isaac Asimov

I missed that quote earlier. It's an excellent observation.

everlast75

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, this is normal. American politics is a team sport, and even though Trump was not the pick of the Republican team insiders, he is the face of the team and supporters will back him until the end.

Some context:

The announcement of an historic Vietnam peace settlement on January 23rd resulted in a leap in Nixon's approval rating to 67% -- but also demonstrated how short-lived the effects of such international events on public opinion can be.

Nixon's surge in approval evaporated almost as quickly as it appeared. The relentless uncovering of damaging information about the Watergate scandal through the spring and summer of 1973 led to a steady deterioration in public approval of Nixon month by month. By May, Nixon's rating had dropped to 44%, and by August, it was at 31% -- representing a 36% drop in about six months. (A year later, in August 1974 when he resigned from office, Nixon's rating was 24%)

I get that and understand you point and agree to a level.

Nixon however had pretty much one controversy. Watergate.

My point is that there is a relentless stream of controversies regarding DJT.

I could not even list them all here, but off the top of my head

1) Payment in respect of damages for Trump Universities - 25million - 6 days ago!
2) Stormy Daniels lawsuit
3) Karen McDougal lawsuit
4) Mueller investigation
5) Emoluments lawsuit
6) Comey book and content
7) Fire and Fury book and content (to now a lesser degree)
8) Manafort's trial in July
9) Gates
10) Cambridge analytica
11) Cohen's office raided
12) Turn over of staff
13) Investigation into family finances

That's off the top of my head. How even 38% of America, even those that are "team players" can stomach having this guy lead and represent your Country on an international level given the level of disgrace is completely baffling to me.

Perhaps (and this is a scary thought) there is so much of it, it has all become white noise to the majority of americans..

Quin_Dub

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Assuming he's also got it in for the GOP, who stood with The Donald or looked the other way when he was fired, then he might be looking at them taking a hammering in the mid terms. Remember, if The Donald goes then we have President Pence who will give the GOP an initial bounce.

Genuine Procedural question here..

If evidence of Collusion is found , even if it's not to DJT himself and that results in Trumps Impeachment could Pence also be impeached at the same time?

My thinking here is that if Trumps election is deemed illegitimate surely that means the same for Pence?

Even if he had absolutely Zero involvement in anything dodgy surely he can't be moved up to POTUS if the election that made him VP is found to be invalid?

Also - If that occured would that mean we'd be looking at President Pelosi if the Dems take the house in November? (assuming impeachment doesn't happen until Dem's at least control the House)

FreudianSlippers

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Genuine Procedural question here..

If evidence of Collusion is found , even if it's not to DJT himself and that results in Trumps Impeachment could Pence also be impeached at the same time?

My thinking here is that if Trumps election is deemed illegitimate surely that means the same for Pence?

Even if he had absolutely Zero involvement in anything dodgy surely he can't be moved up to POTUS if the election that made him VP is found to be invalid?

Also - If that occured would that mean we'd be looking at President Pelosi if the Dems take the house in November? (assuming impeachment doesn't happen until Dem's at least control the House)

To suggest that the entire election be overturned would be unprecedented; separately, Pence would need to be linked to a crime in order to be impeached.

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

I get that and understand you point and agree to a level.

Nixon however had pretty much one controversy. Watergate.

My point is that there is a relentless stream of controversies regarding DJT.

I could not even list them all here, but off the top of my head

1) Payment in respect of damages for Trump Universities - 25million - 6 days ago!
2) Stormy Daniels lawsuit
3) Karen McDougal lawsuit
4) Mueller investigation
5) Emoluments lawsuit
6) Comey book and content
7) Fire and Fury book and content (to now a lesser degree)
8) Manafort's trial in July
9) Gates
10) Cambridge analytica
11) Cohen's office raided
12) Turn over of staff
13) Investigation into family finances

That's off the top of my head. How even 38% of America, even those that are "team players" can stomach having this guy lead and represent your Country on an international level given the level of disgrace is completely baffling to me.

Perhaps (and this is a scary thought) there is so much of it, it has all become white noise to the majority of americans..

The problem is that a large chunk of that support is not support for Trump but hatred of Democrats and/or Hillary Clinton. So, for a certain not insignificant % of voters the name and person does not matter even the slightest , it is purely about who they aren't.

As another poster said , America is very broken right now and Trump is a symptom of that , not the cause..

Quin_Dub

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

To suggest that the entire election be overturned would be unprecedented; separately, Pence would need to be linked to a crime in order to be impeached.

I suppose I get that from a purely Legal stand-point , but how could he ever hope to be seen to have any legitimacy if Trump is impeached for Election Collusion related items?

I can see how he could stand his ground if they were to get Trump on something else , not related to the Election , but if it is election related Lame Duck wouldn't even begin to describe a Pence Presidency.

Professor Moriarty

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Genuine Procedural question here..

If evidence of Collusion is found , even if it's not to DJT himself and that results in Trumps Impeachment could Pence also be impeached at the same time?

My thinking here is that if Trumps election is deemed illegitimate surely that means the same for Pence?

Even if he had absolutely Zero involvement in anything dodgy surely he can't be moved up to POTUS if the election that made him VP is found to be invalid?

Also - If that occured would that mean we'd be looking at President Pelosi if the Dems take the house in November? (assuming impeachment doesn't happen until Dem's at least control the House)

Good article here on the process. Apparently, impeachment itself doesn't necessitate him resigning but obviously would make it very difficult for him to act as President. I couldn't see Pence going, based on The Donald's misdemeanours, but it would depend on what he knew and what he covered up. Just based on uninformed observation, Pence seems to try to keep The Donald at arm's length as much as possible.

Again just an opinion, but I can't see how Pence would be dismissed because the election was invalid. Proving that The Donald is unfit for office is one thing, but getting both houses to agree that the election was invalid as a result would be a bridge much too far.

everlast75

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

To suggest that the entire election be overturned would be unprecedented; separately, Pence would need to be linked to a crime in order to be impeached.

Yep. I know we are all in unchartered waters here but I suspect that if Trump is threatened with impeachment, it won't be on the basis that the election was a fraud. It will be his involvement in the whole process and unless Mike Pence can be tied to it, then he will escape relatively scot-free and become 46.

I know I am biased, but I sincerely hope DJT suffers some embarrassment of a significant and historical level via his removal and mocked for decades to come as the worst POTUS of all time.

FreudianSlippers

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I suppose I get that from a purely Legal stand-point , but how could he ever hope to be seen to have any legitimacy if Trump is impeached for Election Collusion related items?

I can see how he could stand his ground if they were to get Trump on something else , not related to the Election , but if it is election related Lame Duck wouldn't even begin to describe a Pence Presidency.

Totally agree - the thing is that Trump impeachment will have a massively fracturing impact on the US. #MAGA kids will be grabbing their tiki torches and their guns... Pence will need to be kept in power in order to keep the lid on all of that IMO.

B0jangles

If Trump goes down, it's going to be extremely hard for anyone to credibly claim Pence was not involved in any of the scandals - he was reportedly hand-picked Paul Manafort to be Trump's running-mate.

Paul 'Multiple Indictments' Manafort