Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

everlast75

kilns wrote: »

I hate Trump as much as the next guy but I really think the Russian thing is a big hoax, they meddled probably a bit yes but I dont think in collusion with Trump. But you have to love the Americans, its like living in a movie, they always need a big bad guy and Russia always get portrayed in that role.

yeah.. that bit is kind of illegal.

And I guess the meeting with Donny Jr, Manafort, etc etc etc etc Cohen most likely going to Prague.. a nothingburger.

And as for Russia, any leader who jails opponents, is implicated on an international level for poisoning or jailing people who criticises him and does so in order to remain in power for 20 years.. that's pretty much textbook villain to me.

Christy42

kilns wrote: »

Nobody is like Trump he is truely unique but in a way that they are relatively independent and not beholding to party politics 
The one thing you could say about Trump is that is he is independent and his own man, he only uses the republicans because he needs him

His own man in that he takes his lead from Fox news (or frequently whoever spoke to him last)? He is not independent. He is in fact incredibly dependent.

Aside from the wall and ermm immigration ban we have very few policies from Trump himself. I guess the trade war which has yet to happen.

Tax breaks for big business was Ryan's biggest goal. He hated the budget so that was obviously not him.

Am I forgetting something? He is frequently an empty vessel for others to use. The trick is to get what you want before someone else gets to him!

Maybe someone like Sanders (not the press secretary) would be what you mean.

kilns

If someone wants to cast Russia as a villian, then that would make America as the super villians.  They have caused much more harm around the world than Russian ever had
The Russian investigation will not bring Trump down, the Evangelical nutjobs will, when he eventually loses their support he is dead.  The affairs with Stormy and the other Playboy models will be his undoing eventually and if the real details of these gets out he will lose his already false credibility with them

kilns

Christy42 wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

Nobody is like Trump he is truely unique but in a way that they are relatively independent and not beholding to party politics 
The one thing you could say about Trump is that is he is independent and his own man, he only uses the republicans because he needs him

His own man in that he takes his lead from Fox news (or frequently whoever spoke to him last)? He is not independent. He is in fact incredibly dependent.

Aside from the wall and ermm immigration ban we have very few policies from Trump himself. I guess the trade war which has yet to happen.

Tax breaks for big business was Ryan's biggest goal. He hated the budget so that was obviously not him.

Am I forgetting something? He is frequently an empty vessel for others to use. The trick is to get what you want before someone else gets to him!

Maybe someone like Sanders (not the press secretary) would be what you mean.

Bernie would have been the best President of all time, if he got the job

everlast75

kilns wrote: »

If someone wants to cast Russia as a villian, then that would make America as the super villians.  They have caused much more harm around the world than Russian ever had.

That's debatable - but given the two countries, I know which has a better reputation for human rights, less corruption etc.

kilns wrote: »

The Russian investigation will not bring Trump down, the Evangelical nutjobs will, when he eventually loses their support he is dead.  The affairs with Stormy and the other Playboy models will be his undoing eventually and if the real details of these gets out he will lose his already false credibility with them

I agree, or at least the Court case surrounding them will

Leroy42

kilns wrote: »

I hate Trump as much as the next guy but I really think the Russian thing is a big hoax, they meddled probably a bit yes but I dont think in collusion with Trump. But you have to love the Americans, its like living in a movie, they always need a big bad guy and Russia always get portrayed in that role.

This is the bit that causes me the most questions about Trump.

Almost everyone accepts, whether through collusion of simply directly, that Russia meddled in the election, yet the current POTUS seems completely non plussed by it.

Not only that but he seems to go out of his way to try to deflect any blame from Russia and is only taking action (on unrelated matters like Syria) when he has little option.

THe question must be why Trump, and American like everyone else in the country and thus brought up in the same "Big Bad Russia" atmosphere as the rest, when faced with such a threat is so unwilling to do anything about it.

As far as I can see there are a number of options;

- He simply doesn't care. The meddling worked in his favour so its someone else problem
- He doesn't believe it. So we have a POTUS that is ignoring all the evidence from all the experts around him. That is placing the US in incredible danger.
- He knows its true but is looking to protect himself, Russia or some other parties.

listermint

kilns wrote: »

I hate Trump as much as the next guy but I really think the Russian thing is a big hoax, they meddled probably a bit yes but I dont think in collusion with Trump. But you have to love the Americans, its like living in a movie, they always need a big bad guy and Russia always get portrayed in that role.

It cant possible be a hoax when there are various examples of extremely dubious Russian Money funnelling towards Trump, and not small amounts in the hundreds of millions of dollars for over a decade.

This fella would appear do anything to keep the brand afloat.

kilns

The actual ironic thing is that the US which has meddled in so many elections around the world are now so up in arms now that their election has been potentially meddled with

amandstu

kilns wrote: »

The actual ironic thing is that the US which has meddled in so many elections around the world are now so up in arms now that their election has been potentially meddled with

Whataboutery?

Those Americans who may just want a decent democratic system and an honourable foreign policy cannot speak out when foreign states attempt to manipulate their established democratic processes?

Does this logic apply to Ireland? All foreign states are free,without impediment or outcry to manipulate Irish elections if they can show that Ireland interfered with theirs in the past?

South Africa ,maybe.

And of course the UK doesn't deserve to have free and fair elections at all based on its history.

Leroy42

kilns wrote: »

The actual ironic thing is that the US which has meddled in so many elections around the world are now so up in arms now that their election has been potentially meddled with

On that logic, Americans shouldn't feel any animosity to the 9/11 attacks as they have been bombing places for years!

aloyisious

Hurrache wrote: »

Apparently Giuliani has joined Trump's legal team saying he hopes to negotiate an end to Mueller's investigation, as well as a husband and wife legal team who specialise in white collar crime.

My instant reaction is: conflict of interests when it comes to Rudy becoming an attorney advising/representing Don on any legal issues.....

kilns

I am just stating that the outrage from political circles in the US to this is ironic.
As stated before I firmly believe Trump wont be got by links to Russia, it will be his extra marital affairs which will be his downfall and the loss of his evangelical support base

spacecoyote

aloyisious wrote: »

My instant reaction is: conflict of interests when it comes to Rudy becoming an attorney advising/representing Don on any legal issues.....

Given he's likely to be called to give evidence in any court proceedings, there has to a conflict surely?

Zubeneschamali

kilns wrote: »

it will be his extra marital affairs which will be his downfall and the loss of his evangelical support base

No chance, they knew he was an adulterous p*ssy grabbing lecher when they elected him.

amandstu

aloyisious wrote: »

My instant reaction is: conflict of interests when it comes to Rudy becoming an attorney advising/representing Don on any legal issues.....

Is Trump desperate for closure and Guliani happy to go along and lance the boil whilst pretending to accept Trump's protestations?

Quin_Dub

kilns wrote: »

I am just stating that the outrage from political circles in the US to this is ironic.
As stated before I firmly believe Trump wont be got by links to Russia, it will be his extra marital affairs which will be his downfall and the loss of his evangelical support base

It won't be the affairs , unless it's discovered he's having one right now as they have already given him "a mulligan" on his past transgressions.

What might get him though are the things he and those acting for him did to cover them up..

kilns

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

it will be his extra marital affairs which will be his downfall and the loss of his evangelical support base

No chance, they knew he was an adulterous p*ssy grabbing lecher when they elected him.

But when actual evidence showing he had affairs while his wife was pregnant and just after the birth of his son.  This will do much more damage than any words he spoke would

Quin_Dub

amandstu wrote: »

Is Trump desperate for closure and Guliani happy to go along and lance the boil whilst pretending to accept Trump's protestations?

I think it's more a case of Guiliani being literally the only lawyer of any kind willing to go within a mile of any of this stuff.

He was turned down again earlier this week by another heavy hitter - The guy that did his Divorce from Ivana apparently tried to get some guy to join the team but he "politely declined"

Goldberg also suggested a lawyer from a prominent firm as a potential addition to the legal team, but the attorney declined. Criminal defense lawyer Fred Hafetz confirmed that Goldberg approached him about joining Trump's legal team, as first reported by the WSJ, and that he declined.
"That is correct. I have no further comment," Hafetz said in an email to CNN.

Leroy42

I assume all these lawyers that have left his legal teams and won't join it are all part of the deep state as well. Along with the whole of Washington, the media, the GOP, the DNC, the global elites and the lefties.

At some point people really have to start to question whether it isn't everyone else, but actually him

kilns

He is impossible to work with I would say, unless you tell him what he wants to hear
Any respectable lawyer would run a mile from him (and they have)

everlast75

I am nearly finished with Tapper's interview with Comey. I saw the one with Stephanopoulos. Tapper was much more direct but I thought Comey came across quite well. I have Maddow lined up next (told you I was sad).

Anyhoo, here is a good article on how Trump lied in the past about the level of his wealth to try and get onto the Forbes list..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/trump-lied-to-me-about-his-wealth-to-get-onto-the-forbes-400-here-are-the-tapes/2018/04/20/ac762b08-4287-11e8-8569-26fda6b404c7_story.html?utm_term=.a295401b58d0

Zubeneschamali

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I think it's more a case of Guiliani being literally the only lawyer of any kind willing to go within a mile of any of this stuff.

It's pretty obvious that even Cohen wasn't really a lawyer for Trump in the ordinary sense, he was a go-between and enforcer.

amandstu

kilns wrote: »

But when actual evidence showing he had affairs while his wife was pregnant and just after the birth of his son.  This will do much more damage than any words he spoke would

Actual evidence is required? It doesn't already fit the (scumbag) profile?

I assumed it had already been taken on board(maybe I am a sucker for anti Trump propaganda)

Even if evidence is gathered it can surely be explained way "you don't know how I regret that act (well maybe i can deny this). I have learned from that mistake (maybe it was M'S fault) and am punishing myself (I never wanted this job ,really) by seeing to it that we MAGA etc (vomit)etc...

kilns

amandstu wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

But when actual evidence showing he had affairs while his wife was pregnant and just after the birth of his son.  This will do much more damage than any words he spoke would

Actual evidence is required? It doesn't already fit the (scumbag)  profile?

I assumed it had already been taken on board(maybe I am a sucker for anti Trump propaganda)

Even if evidence is gathered it can surely be explained way "you don't know how I regret that act (well maybe i can deny this). I have learned from that mistake (maybe it was M'S fault) and am punishing myself (I never wanted this job ,really) by seeing to it that we MAGA  etc (vomit)etc...

For those crazy evangelicals yes evidence would be required.

jooksavage

Pointed out by someone this morning that some of Trumps' associates, including Scaramucci and friend and former attorney Jay Goldberg, have been providing commentary since the Cohen raid, comparing Cohen to mobster Sammy Gravano and talking in terms of will he/won't he "flip" and give up Trump. Huh? This is the President of the United States and these guys, his self-proclaimed supporters, are completely blasé about their assumption that he's guilty of something. They're not concerned by the actual commission of a crime - they're not vigorously denying that. They seem to be taking that for granted.

amandstu

jooksavage wrote: »

Pointed out by someone this morning that some of Trumps' associates, including Scaramucci and friend and former attorney Jay Goldberg, have been providing commentary since the Cohen raid, comparing Cohen to mobster Sammy Gravano and talking in terms of will he/won't he "flip" and give up Trump. Huh? This is the President of the United States and these guys, his self-proclaimed supporters, are completely blasé about their assumption that he's guilty of something. They're not concerned by the actual commission of a crime - they're not vigorously denying that. They seem to be taking that for granted.

et tu Scaramucci?:eek:

jooksavage

kilns wrote: »

For those crazy evangelicals yes evidence would be required.

Don't think it would matter a whole pile really for that contingent. A YouGov poll found that 50% of Trumps evangelical supporters don't even think it would be an immoral act if he cheated on his wife, let alone the basis to have him removed from office. Clearly there's some other glaring factor that so endears them to Trump and repelled them from Obama... Hmmm

mcmoustache

jooksavage wrote: »

Don't think it would matter a whole pile really for that contingent. A YouGov poll found that 50% of Trumps evangelical supporters don't even think it would be an immoral act if he cheated on his wife, let alone the basis to have him removed from office. Clearly there's some other glaring factor that so endears them to Trump and repelled them from Obama... Hmmm

Curly hair?

amandstu

mcmoustache wrote: »

Curly hair?

As evidence?

mcmoustache

amandstu wrote: »

As evidence?

No. just trying to help jook figure out what it might be that people hate about Obama so much. It could be his hair.