Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

FingerDeKat

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying the Donald Trump presidency.

Me too only because its an absolute clusterfuk.

As long as I don't wake up to a nuclear winter it's comedy gold.

Having said that I feel sorry for the people that are going to suffer as a result of manbaby trumps ignorant policies and behaviour both in the US and further afield.

everlast75

Another defamation suit against DJT

https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/991013088831864832?s=19

There is no doubt. His undoing will be his big, big mouth

Hande hoche!

Michael Avenatti is very good at keeping himself in the papers and getting his news appearances. Wouldn't be surprised if he uses this as a springboard for entry to politics.

DickSwiveller

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I'm not enjoying this presidency. Gilead belongs in and can be enjoyed in The Handmaid's Tale but Gilead as a real world fascist state and a superpower at that poses a massive threat to the world. Nothing good is going to come out of the current setup over there and the sooner Trump wakes up to the fact he has a gang of Neo-Nazis around him, the better. Too late when they turn on him. Remember in fictional Gilead, the president of the US ended up dead.

I have no idea what you're talking about

FingerDeKat

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I have no idea what you're talking about

it's conspiracy theory bolloxology...ignore it

BabyCheeses

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying the Donald Trump presidency. The man is a breath of fresh air in a political world gone stale. Aside from the fact that he winds up the perpetually offended - aka dopes on social media, RTE, every journalist, politician etc etc (which is very enjoyable) he has the economy back on track and it looks like the great wall will be built.

As for that alleged comedian (what was her name?) seems like a token gesture to prove how right on and politically correct the media are, to give the stage to a woman. Apart from her grating voice, her jokes weren't funny.

Trump 2020 here we come!!

Is there a template for these comments or is individual thought rare among Trump's supporters? Always the same comment with no deviation from each other.

I mean, the economy is back on track? A great wall will be built? We've been hearing this for a year with no details of what it is that has changed.

Professor Moriarty

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Is there a template for these comments or is individual thought rare among Trump's supporters? Always the same comment with no deviation from each other.

I mean, the economy is back on track? A great wall will be built? We've been hearing this for a year with no details of what it is that has changed.

The economy is not back on track. The Donald is bringing in lots of tax cuts - mostly for wealthy people - while he will cut spending to help ordinary people and heap loads of debt on the next generation. Go Donald.

BuilderPlumber

FingerDeKat wrote: »

it's conspiracy theory bolloxology...ignore it

No it is not. John Bolton is really a part of the current regime over there. He was deeply involved in the disasterous Iraq war. He is threatening Iran and North Korea and he and his kind are all too real for my liking. The fact that the regime over there has offered nothing but negativity and unhelpfulness since January 2017 and a very confused message is all too real. The fact that the regime is getting worse with adding in worse people all the time like Bolton also is all too real. The fact that the USA, Gilead or whatever the hell you want to label that shower are not the squeaky clean good guys is being blatantly shown by this crowd and the only good thing this current vile Republican regime will do is open up people's eyes to the evil that is their foreign policy. Was Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the Iraq war or Vietnam conspiracy theories? I'd prefer to call America/Gilead the world's number one rogue state that wants to mess up everyone else who do not bow down before them. They have no right whatsoever telling Iran or North Korea that they cannot have nukes. None whatsoever. I saw that Netanyahu guy on the news once more with his anti-Iran agendas. Of course, it wasn't really him .. it was some left wing conspiracy theorist lookalike imitating him!!!!!!!

All the conspiracy theories belong in the minds of those people over there. Bolton and co. To them, Saddam and Iran did 9/11 and Iran poses a threat and ISIS don't. Netanyahu's war crimes do not exist and Syrian and Palestinian lives do not matter. Yet, these guys over there claim to be Christian.

briany

FingerDeKat wrote: »

Me too only because its an absolute clusterfuk.

As long as I don't wake up to a nuclear winter it's comedy gold.

Having said that I feel sorry for the people that are going to suffer as a result of manbaby trumps ignorant policies and behaviour both in the US and further afield.

On the one hand, Trump's almost complete lack of decorum and traditional statesmanship is a sad indictment of the burgeoning proud-to-be-ignorant right-wing populism that has been rearing its head in the last few years.

On the other hand, his public spats and outbursts have been a real shock to the American political system. I wouldn't call it the draining of the swamp that he promised, but it will be a good opportunity to test established values and codes of conduct among the American political establishment.

Itssoeasy

I see John Kelly may be in the dog house.

BuilderPlumber

briany wrote: »

On the one hand, Trump's almost complete lack of decorum and traditional statesmanship is a sad indictment of the burgeoning proud-to-be-ignorant right-wing populism that has been rearing its head in the last few years.

On the other hand, his public spats and outbursts have been a real shock to the American political system. I wouldn't call it the draining of the swamp that he promised, but it will be a good opportunity to test established values and codes of conduct among the American political establishment.

The conduct of a weak president hiding behind a buffoonish persona would be laughable if it came from a poor unimportant country. I have heard some people who remember Uganda's Idi Amin as a perfect example about a comic character who one could safely laugh at from a distance. When you have a buffoonish president who has allowed in very very dangerous individuals into his government in not only an important world power but the world's biggest superpower, that is no joke at all. In fact, it poses a threat to the entire world.

The gap between the real world and dystopian fiction like The Handmaid's Tale is often not as large as many care to admit. Margaret Atwood who wrote the book said a lot of it was inspired by then existing regimes like Ceaucescu's Romania. When one looks at some real world dystopias, you can see they were borne out of a war:

Ceaucescu's Romania and other so-called communist countries were created by a situation caused by WW2.
Hitler's Nazi Germany was a byproduct of WW1.
The Islamic Republic of Iran's most oppressive era was the 1980s after the Iran-Iraq aka Gulf War 1 was commenced. Ditto for Saddam's Iraq.
Taliban Afghanistan was the result of the ongoing wars there.
Plenty more dystopias too that came out of war like the early USSR, Khmer Rouge Cambodia/Kampuchea, etc.

There are plenty people in America who want to push a so-called conservative agenda. Many thrive on ongoing warfare and a lot of innocent people die because of American foreign policy decisions. Poorly thought out tweets feed extremism and hatred. The internet has linked extremists everywhere and allowed them to arrange things not possible otherwise.

Another good point Margaret Atwood made about any dystopia is it comes about based on the culture within a place and not from a sudden change. With regard to the current American regime: it is vile, oppressive, negative and consumed with hate BUT it is building on previous material and indeed many of the members were in previous administrations. Terms like 'rogue state', 'evil empire', 'axis of evil' and 'state sponsors of terrorism' were not invented in 2017-18 'Gileadean' America. Many of these terms date back to as early as the 1980s and were used to describe Gaddafi's Libya, the favourite country to condemn at the time. America has used these terms to describe at least 12 countries at different times.

"we are not going to tolerate … attacks from outlaw states by the strangest collection of misfits, loony tunes, and squalid criminals since the advent of the Third Reich"

A quote from The Handmaid's Tale about Gilead enemies? No.
Another offensive tweet from The Donald? No.
Another hate fuelled John Bolton statement? No.

This actually is a 1985 statement from then president Ronald Reagan. It was mainly directed at Libya but also Nicaragua and traditional so-called enemies like Cuba and North Korea. The sad fact is some people have not moved on at all since then and this sort of rhetoric belongs in the pre-Perestroika/Glasnost cold war and it was not even nice to hear then. America is a country that seriously needs reform and as all this current regime has done is let the mask slip. And just in case one thinks American fascism and negativity is just the property of Republicans, think again. It was Clinton who actually officially created a list of rogue states with Saddam's Iraq and Milosevic's Yugoslavia top of his list.

DickSwiveller

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Is there a template for these comments or is individual thought rare among Trump's supporters? Always the same comment with no deviation from each other.

I mean, the economy is back on track? A great wall will be built? We've been hearing this for a year with no details of what it is that has changed.

"Is there a template for these comments or is individual thought rare among Trump's supporters? Always the same comment with no deviation from each other."

The irony. This whole thread is a giant echo chamber.

Trump is demanding money for the wall, and the economy is clearly in a healthy state.

Professor Moriarty

DickSwiveller wrote: »

"Is there a template for these comments or is individual thought rare among Trump's supporters? Always the same comment with no deviation from each other."

The irony. This whole thread is a giant echo chamber.

Trump is demanding money for the wall, and the economy is clearly in a healthy state.

Any thoughts on the deficit and its implications for the US economy in the medium term?

Itssoeasy

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Michael Avenatti is very good at keeping himself in the papers and getting his news appearances. Wouldn't be surprised if he uses this as a springboard for entry to politics.

He is on the latest David Axelrod podcast and he's worked on 140 campaigns in 42 states so it seems that he wouldn't seem to need a springboard. He's coming across as a very shrewd guy who thinks before he blinks so to speak.

BabyCheeses

DickSwiveller wrote: »

"Is there a template for these comments or is individual thought rare among Trump's supporters? Always the same comment with no deviation from each other."

The irony. This whole thread is a giant echo chamber.

Trump is demanding money for the wall, and the economy is clearly in a healthy state.

Yes that's it, complain about echo chambers. It's not our fault that people who support him are unable to support him without repeating the same empty lines over and over. Thankfully we can't generate electricity from eye rolling or those coal mines will never open again.

Ohhhh, he has demanded the money. Well in that case we'll see it any week now. I'm sure everyone is terrified of what will happen if he has to type out another tweet demanding the money! Whatever happened to the art of the deal? Sounds like a terrible deal maker if he has to make demands.

markodaly

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

It is very clear the Republic of Gilead experiment in America is failing. Weak president, silent vice president, and odious individuals like John Bolton resurrected from the political grave (where they should have been left) is all Gilead has offered. Their support of vile Middle Eastern warmonger Netanyahu (who is only going to make matters much worse in Syria and revive ISIS again) and of other vile individuals like Duterte of the Philippines show us the lovely people Gilead loves to pal around with. It is clear Bolton and in the past Bannon as well as Bob Mercer are the real leaders of Gilead. Trump is a total fool to have gotten involved with them and he will pay the cost dearly for doing so too.

It is time to make The Handmaid's Tale fiction again. It is time to make America great again ... by removing this odious excuse of a government. Let's hope the Gilead Oppressive Party gets trashed in November and then this leads to a series of investigations that bring the whole thing to the ground and that we see some of Gilead's leaders like Bolton in prison for war crimes.

Wow, your edgy.

Reminds me of the time when Obama was elected we had weirdos and Kooks think that America was about to turn into a Maoist regime.
If Bush or Romney were around at the time when The Handmaid's Tale entered our screens, you would have had the same edgy people post stuff like above.

Well, at least it makes the a change that Trump is Hitler.
Then again, almost all presidents are compared to Hitler at some stage by to Kooks and cranks.

##MOD Image Snip##


Basically, if someone starts spouting stuff about President X,Y,Z is Hitler or even Moa/Stalin or the recent edgy Gilead, you are safe in the knowledge to ignore them.

oscarBravo

DickSwiveller wrote: »

The irony. This whole thread is a giant echo chamber.

You're fairly handy at the old unintentional irony yourself - espousing a contrarian opinion in what you describe as an echo chamber.

Trump is demanding money for the wall...

From Mexico? Or is it only Trump fans that have carefully erased all memory of that campaign promise from their minds?

...and the economy is clearly in a healthy state.

Clearly. As long as your only metric for the health of the economy is "whatever Trump tells me to unquestioningly believe".

BuilderPlumber

markodaly wrote: »

Wow, your edgy.

Reminds me of the time when Obama was elected we had weirdos and Kooks think that America was about to turn into a Maoist regime.
If Bush or Romney were around at the time when The Handmaid's Tale entered our screens, you would have had the same edgy people post stuff like above.

Yes, I have come across these people who said these entirely baseless things about Obama plus those who said he was some sort of an Islamic puppet. I'm sure there was a lot of comparisons between America and The Handmaid's Tale even before the current excellent TV series adaptation. More on that later.

Well, at least it makes the a change that Trump is Hitler.
Then again, almost all presidents are compared to Hitler at some stage by to Kooks and cranks.

Yes I am sick of all these 'next Hitler' predictions too. The irony comes that many call some of the current 'Gilead' types in America Hitlers and they do not like it while they call anyone they do not like as the next Hitler. Remember Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a third world nationalist leader: he was meant to be the next Hitler. He was Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and not Hitler.

Basically, if someone starts spouting stuff about President X,Y,Z is Hitler or even Moa/Stalin or the recent edgy Gilead, you are safe in the knowledge to ignore them.

Hitler's Germany was an evil regime and is considered by most Germans today as an era in their country's history they'd never want to revisit. I've heard everyone from Trump to more third world leaders like Ayatollah Ali Khamenei being called the next Hitler. But one is entitled to come out and note similarities between regimes. All dictators and dictatorships possess similarities like personality cults, repression, a militaristic mentality and often a desire to spread its ideology. No, America or 'Gilead' is not Nazi Germany but like Nazi Germany, it has invaded other states and has had the USSR/Russia as its main enemy.

One could spend the night comparing regimes but they essentially are all different despite some traits. I'm not influenced by conspiracy theories like those said about Obama, 9/11, Elvis being alive, etc. If someone said Trump drank the blood of some snake at some voodoo ceremony in 2012 and changed from moderate liberal to devil possessed hardliner, I'd say that belongs in the second Indiana Jones film and not explaining Trump. We do know Trump did change his views but you can bet it is money related not voodoo related!!

But I will stand by my comparison of America to Gilead. Is America at present the state we see in Handmaid's? Of course it isn't. Do I believe such a thing as state endorsed creation of women slaves like the handmaids and 'Marthas' will be implemented in America? No. But I do believe other freedoms may be taken away and this regime is influenced by people like Duterte in the Philippines. One thing the regime wants to do is copy Duterte's drug dealer policies for example. Not a lover of drug dealers (unless they are called Nidge!), but capital punishment for them is a bit extreme in a so-called civilised country. Gay people, women wanting abortion, non-Christians, etc. could all be targeted too. The treatment of African Americans is not pleasant in much of America today and there is clearly a major gun problem. None of the negatives about American society are made up. There is a horrible underbelly in the whole place from its onnoxious foreign policy to its racism to its mass shootings. A regime that secretly and sometimes even openly endorses a lot of this cannot help reform this place. Religious extremism is also clearly a problem in some parts of America. Just go onto these 'god channels' and listen to some of these preachers: they combine their narrow views of Christianity (anti alcohol, anti entertainment, etc.) with their narrow racist politics (anti Iran, pro Netanyahu and so on) and try to justify all this via Jesus Christ. Jesus would not approve of these.

The only factor missing between a fullblown Gilead and the current state of America is a war on US soil. If something was to happen and a real chance of civil war emerged, then all possibilities are on the table. There is plenty nastiness, religious extremism, racism and greed in current America to lay the foundations for a 'Gilead' style state. This current regime is not identical to Margaret Atwood's creation, and it is not Hitler and the Nazis either. But it is an unpleasant and potentially very evil regime that has the potential to do a lot of damage if left unchecked.

Leroy42

So its looks like even the mainstays within the GOP are not believing the propaganda sent out as part of the great tax reform plan

Marco Rubio yesterday stated that there is little evidence that the massive tax cuts (dropping CT rates from 36+% to 21%) is having any trickle down effect on the pay of the workers.

“There is still a lot of thinking on the right that if big corporations are happy, they’re going to take the money they’re saving and reinvest it in American workers,” he said. “In fact, they bought back shares, a few gave out bonuses; there’s no evidence whatsoever that the money’s been massively poured back into the American worker.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/marco-rubio-tax-cuts-didnt-work_us_5ae78e3de4b055fd7fcee214

There is no doubt that some of the massive tax savings will be passed on,

but President Donald Trump’s corporate tax breaks saved six major banks $3.59 billion in the last quarter, according to an Associated Press analysis.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/big-wall-street-banks-saved-over-dollar35-billion-under-trump-tax-law

And yet they pushed back on increasing the child credit as it was too socialist whilst given billions to the top corporate guys.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

There is no doubt that some of the massive tax savings will be passed on

Of course there is a doubt: we already know what big companies are doing with their tax cuts: stock buybacks rewarding the rich investors. Why would they offer pay rises to little people?

everlast75

So the NYT have obtained the list of 40 odd questions Mueller wants to ask Trump.

(see them here - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/us/politics/questions-mueller-wants-to-ask-trump-russia.html )

A couple of theories/observations
1) Obstruction is foremost to the majority of questions
2) It would appear that he has already asked/interviewed enough people to now want to talk to DJT
3) Talking to the main subject is the one of the last things done in an investigation which means it is drawing to a conclusion (possibly)
4) Mueller's team generally does not leak - which means someone else did. Gulliani is now on DJT's team so it would not surprise me if it was him
5) If it was Mueller's team, perhaps they have done so as DJT won't now sit down for an interview, so he is informing the press of questions that need to be answered
6) If anyone believes this investigation is a witch hunt, they need to go have a long hard talk with themselves

Leroy42

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course there is a doubt: we already know what big companies are doing with their tax cuts: stock buybacks rewarding the rich investors. Why would they offer pay rises to little people?

Yes I know that, but I had to put in that line to avoid the response from Trump supporters telling me about $1 per hour pay rises in Wal-Mart etc.

The point being not that middle/low America will gain nothing from this, but rather that they have passed over $bns to the corporations and the promise of the smallest crumbs for themselves, all the while claiming Trump as a man of the people.

That is even before we get to the fact that Trump gave himself and his family massive tax breaks with the changing of inheritance tax.

Enochwasright

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course there is a doubt: we already know what big companies are doing with their tax cuts: stock buybacks rewarding the rich investors. Why would they offer pay rises to little people?

Some of that will go to the rich investors but much will go to pension funds, this is the first step of the trickle down, did you think it would go direct from mega Corp to poor people? Anyway I am confident we can see trump as being yet again correct on this one, great thing is time will tell so no point arguing here, next Q GDP report will be fun!

jooksavage

That list of questions that Muellers team compiled for Trump is interesting. Some bracingly direct inquiries there. Remains to be seen if Trump provides them with a sit down. I find it very hard to conceive of a situation where he doesn't end up lying under oath when questions like "What was the purpose of your Tweet that read 'James Comey better hope there are no tapes'?" are put to him.

On the Cohen front, looks like the attorneys willingness to "take a bullet" for Trump isnt mutual. Trump-friendly muck-racker The National Enquirer has a headline that reads "Trump's Fixer's Secrets & Lies". Wouldnt be a bit surprised if this stuff starts popping up in DJTs Twitter feed in the coming weeks.

everlast75

jooksavage wrote: »

That list of questions that Muellers team compiled for Trump is interesting. Some bracingly direct inquiries there. Remains to be seen if Trump provides them with a sit down. I find it very hard to conceive of a situation where he doesn't end up lying under oath when questions like "What was the purpose of your Tweet that read 'James Comey better hope there are no tapes'?" are put to him.

On the Cohen front, looks like the attorneys willingness to "take a bullet" for Trump isnt mutual. Trump-friendly muck-racker The National Enquirer has a headline that reads "Trump's Fixer's Secrets & Lies". Wouldnt be a bit surprised if this stuff starts popping up in DJTs Twitter feed in the coming weeks.

Cohen was asked if that headline meant Trump was turning against him. His response?
"what do you think?"

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

The point being not that middle/low America will gain nothing from this, but rather that they have passed over $bns to the corporations and the promise of the smallest crumbs for themselves, all the while claiming Trump as a man of the people.

Of course it is much worse than that.

Now that the tax cuts are in place, the Republicans have "noticed" that they blow up the deficit, so now they will work tirelessly to cut spending on the poor to close the deficit they created by tax cuts for the rich.

Democrats should campaign loud and clear on "raise taxes on the rich". It's a sensible idea economically, and a very popular one.

Zubeneschamali

Enochwasright wrote: »

did you think it would go direct from mega Corp to poor people?

No, I don't think poor people will see a dime, instead they will see cuts as the GOP tries to close the deficit their tax cuts for the rich created.

oscarBravo

Enochwasright wrote: »

Some of that will go to the rich investors but much will go to pension funds...

[citation needed]

...this is the first step of the trickle down...

Wow, people still claim to believe in "trickle down" after decades of increasing inequality?

Captain Obvious

Watching Matt Schlapp trying to discuss Michelle Wolf on CNN. He was one of the people who walked out. I think the joke was too complicated for him to understand. He also said it's not for journalist to call out the lies of the President or SHS.

mcmoustache

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Is there a template for these comments or is individual thought rare among Trump's supporters? Always the same comment with no deviation from each other.

I mean, the economy is back on track? A great wall will be built? We've been hearing this for a year with no details of what it is that has changed.

It's a familiar pattern alright:

1. Say you really like this president.
2. Say that things are doing great now when they weren't before without being too specific. It doesn't need to be true.
3. Claim that the agenda is being fulfilled.
4. Throw in something about triggering people who don't like Trump and call them liberals for bonus points.

These sort of posts are generally done in a drive-by style. If the poster is pressed on any of the claims, they'll either scuttle away or concede that "triggering the libs" is what's important to them.

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

― Jean Paul-Sartre