Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Mumha

Al Franken is currently giving his first post resignation speech in Lisbon at the moment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgsnjEjjx6w

amandstu

jooksavage wrote: »

Vintage Trump. "This list of questions that is being put to me by a team investigating a potentially impeachable offense, questions that I am going to flat out refuse to answer under oath; this list proves that I'm innocent of collusion"

Oooooookay.

That's not twitter ,is it?

Where did he say that?

Not deleted is it?

mcmoustache

Leroy42 wrote: »

Collusion (which as far as I am aware isn't actually on offence) is always going to be very hard to prove. It is highly unlikely that Trump himself was directly involved and you cna be sure that Putin didn't get involved either. Even Drug dealers know you need to keep your own hands clean, to have deniability.

Correct. Collusion isn't a crime in itself. It's a deliberately non-legal term.

Conspiracy to commit a crime, on the other hand, is a crime. If anyone is going to be accused or brought before the courts for the act of collusion, the charge will be conspiracy.

For example, if a Trump campaign member worked to change the RNC platform in exchange for material support which included illegal activity, such as the Russian IRA campaign assistance, then that member can be could be charged with conspiracy to commit whatever crime.

From my understanding, there needs to be a crime and an involvement in that crime for there to be a conspiracy charge but I'm not a legal professional so corrections are appreciated here.

everlast75

According to the Washington Post, for the 466 days in office, he has uttered 3001 false or misleading claims.

At this stage, if he got on stage/twitter and said the sun would rise in the morning, I would begin to seriously doubt it.

Hopefully, after he and his cronies are locked up/removed, and I believe it to be a matter of time, the US government will close the loopholes that he has exposed and at least some good will come of his complete and utter shítshow

Mr.Micro

everlast75 wrote: »

According to the Washington Post, for the 466 days in office, he has uttered 3001 false or misleading claims.

At this stage, if he got on stage/twitter and said the sun would rise in the morning, I would begin to seriously doubt it.

Hopefully, after he and his cronies are locked up/removed, and I believe it to be a matter of time, the US government will close the loopholes that he has exposed and at least some good will come of his complete and utter shítshow

I don't think that is going to happen. The show will continue. Whether integrity will be restored, who knows, as all normal behaviour, values and reason have been thrown out the window with the election of Trump.

StringerBell

everlast75 wrote: »

I love the fact that he says they were "leaked". Were they, or were they not. He doesn't understand that air quotes signify.

According to NBC, the notes that were leaked (not "leaked") contained his lawyers' notes, which mean they came from his side (as I said - probably Gulliani).

I also love the fact that he thinks these questions absolve him. Keep thinking that Einstein, keep thinking that.

You left out the delicious irony in his hatred of leaks one minute and his eagerness to leak the next

Mumha

everlast75 wrote: »

According to the Washington Post, for the 466 days in office, he has uttered 3001 false or misleading claims.

At this stage, if he got on stage/twitter and said the sun would rise in the morning, I would begin to seriously doubt it.

Hopefully, after he and his cronies are locked up/removed, and I believe it to be a matter of time, the US government will close the loopholes that he has exposed and at least some good will come of his complete and utter shítshow

He was on 2000 at the start of the year !

I really do hope they close those loopholes because the next one like Trump, will know to cover the tracks beforehand. Trump and his gang were incredibly stupid in how much evidence they left behind.

josip

Leroy42 wrote: »

Surely everyone can see this and can see through Trumps distraction? I mean, anyone who watched any episodes of CSI or SVU etc will know that.

Yes, but do either of these air on Fox?

spacecoyote

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/385514-trump-campaign-covered-some-of-cohens-legal-costs-report

Could be some more potential trouble if this could be proved.

In a nutshell there is a suspicion that money from the Trump campaign was used to cover some of Cohen's legal costs...which is illegal.

Probably enough wiggle room for them to escape it

Water John

On the political side, it's not reaching as far as the 2020, it's the mid terms are the present focus.
The key is not the hard Trump/GOP vote. It's the Dems getting their voters to the polls.

everlast75

Water John wrote: »

On the political side, it's not reaching as far as the 2020, it's the mid terms are the present focus.
The key is not the hard Trump/GOP vote. It's the Dems getting their voters to the polls.

Well a lot of people in 2016 said that not voting was not a vote for Trump. If those same people don't turn out again it will be a big issue.

Frankly, anyone that votes republican or doesn't vote at all will get the president they deserve

Water John

The actual turn in Polls seem to be near 10%. The diff in any election held recently has largely been a more energised Dems voter.

Mumha

Water John wrote: »

The actual turn in Polls seem to be near 10%. The diff in any election held recently has largely been a more energised Dems voter.

All you can really judge things by are the continual strong performances in the special elections, coupled with 35 announced Republican retirements from the House.

Mumha

Water John wrote: »

The actual turn in Polls seem to be near 10%. The diff in any election held recently has largely been a more energised Dems voter.

Yes, I've been hearing a general consensus that if the Democrats can maintain a double digit lead in the generic ballot, they'll win the House and be in the shake up for the Senate.

Mumha

You know most days the news is just tabloid, and in that vein is the latest news about Trump's (now we know) former personal Doctor, Dr Bornstein. He came out today saying that Trump's bodyguard Keith Schiller and another goon, turned up at his office at 7am a year ago and took all Trump related records. Bornstein put it down to admitting that Trump took a hair growth drug. Bornstein is also pissed that Trump didn't take him to the WH with him.

Trump doc says Trump bodyguard, lawyer 'raided' his office, took medical files
Source: NBC

Dr. Harold Bornstein said he felt "raped" after White House aide Keith Schiller and lawyer Alan Garten showed up unannounced and took Trump's files.


In February 2017, a top White House aide who was Trump's longtime personal bodyguard, along with the top lawyer at the Trump Organization and a third man, showed up at the office of Trump's New York doctor without notice and took all the president's medical records.

The incident, which Dr. Harold Bornstein described as a "raid," took place two days after Bornstein told a newspaper that he had prescribed a hair growth medicine for the president for years.

In an exclusive interview in his Park Avenue office, Bornstein told NBC News that he felt "raped, frightened and sad" when Keith Schiller and another "large man" came to his office to collect the president's records on the morning of Feb. 3, 2017. At the time, Schiller, who had long worked as Trump's bodyguard, was serving as director of Oval Office operations at the White House.

"They must have been here for 25 or 30 minutes. It created a lot of chaos," Bornstein said, who described the incident as frightening.



Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-doc-says-trump-bodyguard-lawyer-raided-his-office-took-n870351

Mumha

Just in case it slips under the radar, the Pruitt scandal of sleaze continues to trundle on. Today there were two more exits, presumably Pruitt is jettisoning ballast in order to try and keep himself afloat, but I suspect he is only delaying the inevitable. If you remember, Tom Price was like a choirboy (in sleaze terms) compared to Pruitt, and stuck it out for a while, so Pruitt will probably stick it out further along but all the while smothering the Trump administration in further slime.

MAY 1, 2018 / 11:51 AM / UPDATED AN HOUR AGO

Two top U.S. EPA staffers resign amid ethics probes

Valerie Volcovici

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two high-level Environmental Protection Agency employees whose names have come up in investigations of Administrator Scott Pruitt's ethics and travel have resigned from the agency, the EPA confirmed on Tuesday.

Pasquale "Nino" Perrotta, a former Secret Service agent who served as the head of Pruitt's security team, resigned on Monday but said he will continue to cooperate in a U.S. House of Representatives investigation of his role in costly decisions around Pruitt's security. ABC News first reported the resignation on Tuesday.

Albert "Kell" Kelly, who ran the agency's Superfund cleanup program, also announced his resignation, the EPA confirmed. Kelly was barred by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation from working at any U.S. financial institution after unspecified violations while working at a bank in Oklahoma.

Lawmakers last week grilled Pruitt in back-to-back hearings on reports of ethics violations, excessive spending on travel and security, close industry ties and the reassignment of agency whistleblowers who flagged concerns about high spending.

more
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-epa-ethics/two-top-us-epa-staffers-resign-amid-ongoing-ethics-probes-idUSKBN1I23Y0

Hande hoche!

Mumha wrote: »

Al Franken is currently giving his first post resignation speech in Lisbon at the moment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgsnjEjjx6w

What have the Portuguese done to deserve that?

Manic Moran

everlast75 wrote: »

Frankly, anyone that votes republican or doesn't vote at all will get the president they deserve

This old saw again?

No, we get the President that won the election, whether we deserve it or not.

I don't get this "You must vote for, or else" dichotomy that others want to impose upon me. If I'm unhappy with both major candidates, I'm unhappy whichever one wins. I lose either way. Why should I support a particular unhappiness? I had no problem not voting for Trump. I didn't like him in general, and I didn't feel he deserved my vote. It did not necessarily follow that Hillary deserved my vote. I refuse to reward 'the lesser mediocrity' and encourage more of the same next time around because it got my vote on this occasion. Someone wants my vote? Be a better candidate for me.

Leroy42

But Manic, in a two horse race you really do need to choose. By saying you don't like one, but don't like the other enough to vote you are effectively given a vote to the worse of the two.

In a multi party type things are different, or indeed if you live in a place like California, but even then had more non voters voted for HC the actual vote gap would be even wider than the 3m and call into even more question the electoral college system.

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

This old saw again?

No, we get the President that won the election, whether we deserve it or not.

I don't get this "You must vote for, or else" dichotomy that others want to impose upon me. If I'm unhappy with both major candidates, I'm unhappy whichever one wins. I lose either way. Why should I support a particular unhappiness? I had no problem not voting for Trump. I didn't like him in general, and I didn't feel he deserved my vote. It did not necessarily follow that Hillary deserved my vote. I refuse to reward 'the lesser mediocrity' and encourage more of the same next time around because it got my vote on this occasion. Someone wants my vote? Be a better candidate for me.

Hillary isn't running this time.

Its a choice between the dems and those that enable Trump. Simple as that.

I'm not American, i can't vote.

But if i was, i would go through hell and high water to get to the voting booth and unless the dem politician is ethically and morally bankrupt, i would make sure i vote dem. Because there is enough corrupt reps with seats as it is. And unless the dems get a majority, officially the worst president of all time will get an easier time of it when Mueller delivers his report. That is incentive enough

That's just me.

Leroy42

I totally agree. The dems should win every seat unless the GOP candidate promises to reign Trumps craziness in.

The current set up is a clear danger to America, both in terms of domestic policies and Trump inability to focus on anything for long as well as the US standing internationally.

The office of POTUS (or PM etc) is an outward sign of the people. Do people really think Trump is a good representation of what America stands for?

Afraid of criticism, afraid of competition, afraid of change.

What is so terrifying about the dems that people are prepared so allow the continued destruction of the country they profess to love just to keep them out.

BuilderPlumber

Manic Moran wrote: »

This old saw again?

No, we get the President that won the election, whether we deserve it or not.

I don't get this "You must vote for, or else" dichotomy that others want to impose upon me. If I'm unhappy with both major candidates, I'm unhappy whichever one wins. I lose either way. Why should I support a particular unhappiness? I had no problem not voting for Trump. I didn't like him in general, and I didn't feel he deserved my vote. It did not necessarily follow that Hillary deserved my vote. I refuse to reward 'the lesser mediocrity' and encourage more of the same next time around because it got my vote on this occasion. Someone wants my vote? Be a better candidate for me.

This is a flaw in a lot of places not only in America. If I was American, I'd vote for the Democrats to keep the fascists out and maybe if it were 2004, I would not have voted at all. A two party system is wrong and gives no choice. In the past, both Democrats and Republicans were very similar parties but now it seems a 1 horse show: vote Democrats or get Gilead/KKK/Neo-Nazism. That one party acts so repugnant that educated voters have to vote for a flawed opposition to save America from becoming a fascist state is hardly democracy. It is voting for a moderate one party state in fear of allowing in a hardline one party state. Either way, it is not democratic. There should be more of a choice than 2 parties. What if the Democrats too became infected by extremism? Ireland may not have a perfect electoral system either but at least we have a lot more choice.

Mumha

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

This is a flaw in a lot of places not only in America. If I was American, I'd vote for the Democrats to keep the fascists out and maybe if it were 2004, I would not have voted at all. A two party system is wrong and gives no choice. In the past, both Democrats and Republicans were very similar parties but now it seems a 1 horse show: vote Democrats or get Gilead/KKK/Neo-Nazism. That one party acts so repugnant that educated voters have to vote for a flawed opposition to save America from becoming a fascist state is hardly democracy. It is voting for a moderate one party state in fear of allowing in a hardline one party state. Either way, it is not democratic. There should be more of a choice than 2 parties. What if the Democrats too became infected by extremism? Ireland may not have a perfect electoral system either but at least we have a lot more choice.

This is a huge problem in most countries, but between voter supression and voters not getting out to vote, it's a particular problem in the US (and clearly the UK). In general, there appears to be more "progressive" citizens in the US but they're not getting out to vote, and that has opened the door for RW groups to have an unwarranted stranglehold on the Republican Party, and by extension, the USA. Trump's election may have a positive outcome in completely energising the centre and left.

Prolonged Civil War politics seems to have worked in our favour, here in Ireland, in that there really isn't a hard left/right of serious concern. Despite the usual trots calling FG/FF right wing parties, they're nothing compared to the Conservatives in the UK, or Reps in the US.

markodaly

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

All dictators and dictatorships possess similarities like personality cults, repression, a militaristic mentality and often a desire to spread its ideology. No, America or 'Gilead' is not Nazi Germany but like Nazi Germany, it has invaded other states and has had the USSR/Russia as its main enemy.

It is a logical fallacy.

All dogs are mammals.
All cats are mammanls
Therefore all dogs are cats...

That is your logic.

But I will stand by my comparison of America to Gilead. Is America at present the state we see in Handmaid's? Of course it isn't. Do I believe such a thing as state endorsed creation of women slaves like the handmaids and 'Marthas' will be implemented in America? No.

Just what I thought. You do not believe half of what you type, but just want to been seen as edgy and cool in your use of language. All clear now.

One thing the regime wants to do is copy Duterte's drug dealer policies for example.

Do you have any evidence of this? I see that there are some pieces on the net that reported Trump would like to have the death penalty for drug dealers, but they never mention copying exactly the the policies of Duterte.

As for the rest of the post, meh.

Milkman..

Trump is getting results with Kim Jong un
And the Iranians

Zilch on the Mexican wall though

aloyisious

It seem's the game may have stepped up a pace. CNN is reporting a Washington Post story that Rob Mueller raised the possibility of a subpoena being served on President Trump, which may to have led to a breakdown in talks. Apparently the President's lawyer got angry. The report mentioned that Giuliani had taken charge of the president's legal team. There's also mention that some-one in the GOP has come up with the idea that D/AG Rod Rosenstein should be impeached. Apparently the mention of a subpoena was in early March for him to appear before a grand jury/ I can imagine how that would upset Don, being called before a jury.

Edit: From the sublime to the ridiculous. According to Don's former doctor, Dr Bornstein, Don dictated the wording of the letter from him in 2015 about Don's excellent health. Dr Bornstein says his offce was raided and Don's medical records were seized. Don's representatives say they had a team visit the Dr's office and took the records with the Dr's agreement. Dr Bornstein, im a videod interview shown on CNN, described himself as feeling raped [apparently as a result of the inciden]. t As for the actual letter iself and the way it was put together, the legality mught be in doubt.

BuilderPlumber

markodaly wrote: »

It is a logical fallacy.

All dogs are mammals.
All cats are mammanls
Therefore all dogs are cats...

That is your logic.

Just what I thought. You do not believe half of what you type, but just want to been seen as edgy and cool in your use of language. All clear now.

I believe ALL what I type and am informed enough to see what is sick about the Republican Party, John Bolton, Steve Bannon, etc. and how stupid Trump is to get involved with such evil and negative people. Gilead as in Margaret Atwood's Gilead is a depiction of these types getting their own way and implementing extremism. The fact that these people have extremist views does not mean they would 100% copy Margaret's Gilead but that also does not mean they would not impose their own 'Gilead', a dystopia based on some form of warped white nationalist 'Christian' view of the world with a violent ideology. Sadly, that is what the Republican Party and many aspects about US culture has become and may have always been.

Do you have any evidence of this? I see that there are some pieces on the net that reported Trump would like to have the death penalty for drug dealers, but they never mention copying exactly the the policies of Duterte.

As with Margaret Atwood's Gilead v a 'Gilead' style regime, Trump's dangerous experiment with courting extremists may not 100% copy Duterte but Duterte is someone this current hardline American regime look up to. As with the American regime, Duterte is crude and showing dictatorial trends that threaten democracy. He is a throwback to Marcos. As with the hardline American regime, I'm sure Duterte's hardline regime will claim what they are doing is part of a war against ISIS and other terrorists. Once more, this rings through in dystopian fact or fiction.

The current excuse of a regime in America that any decent thinking Americans should overthrow in any way possible is without exaggeration a caricature of Margaret Atwood's Gilead and I am sure many other examples of dystopias in fiction. I've never read 1984 but I'm sure that world would also echo the world of the current vile American regime. I've read David Brinn's The Postman and the Holnists are another variant on this regime gone too far. The moral of the story is this regime needs to be STOPPED BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. Trump and others who can need to be made to see they are a THREAT TO THEM too. Fact is often stranger than fiction and this regime may end up worse than Gilead, Holnist America, 1984, etc. Trump is hardly going to survive a purge of individuals seen by the Christian rightwing fascists as unworthy due to his REAL views. Trump needs to wake up to the Pandora's Box he has opened that could consume him and usher in something he never intended and has no power to stop unless he acts now. He needs to be told and he needs to listen. Trump is more Hindenburg than Hitler.

BuilderPlumber

Mumha wrote: »

This is a huge problem in most countries, but between voter supression and voters not getting out to vote, it's a particular problem in the US (and clearly the UK). In general, there appears to be more "progressive" citizens in the US but they're not getting out to vote, and that has opened the door for RW groups to have an unwarranted stranglehold on the Republican Party, and by extension, the USA. Trump's election may have a positive outcome in completely energising the centre and left.

Prolonged Civil War politics seems to have worked in our favour, here in Ireland, in that there really isn't a hard left/right of serious concern. Despite the usual trots calling FG/FF right wing parties, they're nothing compared to the Conservatives in the UK, or Reps in the US.

A more centre, left and moderate right needs to form in America. Trump has been an open moderate up until around 2013 and maybe just maybe his job is an act to totally expose the fascist undercurrent in America and make it unpalatable. A risky strategy because it could consume him before he can stop it but let's hope November will signal the end of this 'Gilead' wannabe regime for good. To quote Bob Dylan, they think they have god on their side these Republican hardliners but they don't. They are the most evil force on the planet because they are in charge of the most influential country on the planet.

BuilderPlumber

Milkman.. wrote: »

Trump is getting results with Kim Jong un
And the Iranians

Zilch on the Mexican wall though

Results are happening with the two Koreas but I think this was inevitable. The one good thing that this vile American regime may do is to get other countries to cooperate and do things while bypassing America/'Gilead' completely and rendering what they do as irrelevant. The best way to deal with bullies including racist fascist superpowers meddling in every country in the world is to totally ignore them.

Obama got results with Iran. 'Gilead' will only make things worse. Iran has also been a 'Gilead' type place for too long and mostly because of bad American decisions. Just as things are really improving in Iran, this vile regime took over in America to set things back. A hardliner to take over after moderate president Rouhani could be the end result here and then it is 'Gilead' v 'Gilead' at the expense of the American and Iranian people. So, no progress on Iran only the same old stupid policies from negative Republican idiots. Iran and the European countries should plow ahead with their deal and once more ignore bullying imperfect superpowers with nothing constructive to offer. Iran should not be calling 'Gilead' the 'Great Satan' either as that gives them swelled heads. The best way is to ignore them, that will annoy these clowns most!

ancapailldorcha

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Results are happening with the two Koreas but I think this was inevitable. The one good thing that this vile American regime may do is to get other countries to cooperate and do things while bypassing America/'Gilead' completely and rendering what they do as irrelevant. The best way to deal with bullies including racist fascist superpowers meddling in every country in the world is to totally ignore them.

Obama got results with Iran. 'Gilead' will only make things worse. Iran has also been a 'Gilead' type place for too long and mostly because of bad American decisions. Just as things are really improving in Iran, this vile regime took over in America to set things back. A hardliner to take over after moderate president Rouhani could be the end result here and then it is 'Gilead' v 'Gilead' at the expense of the American and Iranian people. So, no progress on Iran only the same old stupid policies from negative Republican idiots. Iran and the European countries should plow ahead with their deal and once more ignore bullying imperfect superpowers with nothing constructive to offer. Iran should not be calling 'Gilead' the 'Great Satan' either as that gives them swelled heads. The best way is to ignore them, that will annoy these clowns most!

The country is the USA, not "Gilead". Use the nation's proper name in future here please and drop the "Gilead" nonsense.