Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

robinph

amandstu wrote: »

I wonder why you were able to post this ahead of ,for example the BBC.

It is the same source and ,I would have thought completely authoritative (the WH or T's twitter account)

I wonder why they waited a few minutes...just normal procedure and a wish to flesh out the story to a minimal degree perhaps?

Because journalists do checks before reporting stuff or regurgitating what another news site just published. At least they should or they get their fingers burned.

Reading the letter I thought for a moment it had actually been written by someone who knows how to do diplomacy and not say stupid things, but then by the end it is back to willy waving regarding the size of Trumps missiles.

What was the statement from Kim that has annoyed Trump so much?

Fr Tod Umptious

RIGOLO wrote: »

Its naive to think 2016 and Trump was when the backlash began. 
In Obamas era (I know , your not allowed mention him on this thread) , between 2008 and 2016 the Democratic party lost over 1000 legislative seats. 
Yes thats over 1000s local, state, house and senate seats lost . 
Trump didnt anounce his candidacy until June 2015 , one would have thought the Democrats would have been concerned at their losses in the 7 years before Trump even arrived on the scene. 
Philip Bump did a good piece in The Washington Post on the Decimation of the Democratic Party where he explained where all teh Dems legislative seats were lost. .  
Trump (2015) just rode a wave that had been building since 2008. 

Personally Id like to see the DNC get their act together , they need to clean out the old and in with the new kids. The 3 top Dems in Washington Pelosi, Hoyer, Clyburn are all over 78 , and Feinstein is 84 and seeking re-election. The DNC is nearly 5 years older on average than the GOP in Congress. 
I mean that cant be good, if the Dems want to defeat Trump in 2020 they need to get some fresh blood and some fresh ideas .

I don't think this is something that Dems have grasped.

They were erroding support long before Trump came along as you explain.

And now they are doubling down on ID politics by supporting the likes of Manning in MD for Senate.


The majority in the US are still white, straight, Christian (with a small c) and law abiding, the more you alieniate them the more they will loose.

Professor Moriarty

This is terrible news. No Nobel Peace Prize for the Donald? Maybe he'll get one for his tremendous work in bringing the Israelis and Palestinians together. Or maybe his wonderful diplomacy in his dealings with Iran. Such a statesman shouldn't be left unrecognised.

everlast75

robinph wrote: »

Because journalists do checks before reporting stuff or regurgitating what another news site just published. At least they should or they get their fingers burned.

Reading the letter I thought for a moment it had actually been written by someone who knows how to do diplomacy and not say stupid things, but then by the end it is back to willy waving regarding the size of Trumps missiles.

What was the statement from Kim that has annoyed Trump so much?

He called Pence "a dummy".

Seriously - that's the reason.

So DJT, who called him Rocketman, gets offended when names are thrown back. The definition of a (I hate the phrase) snowflake.

And besides.. the best name KJU used referenced Trump as a "Dotard"

James Brown

Pence was a dummy. Comparing Kim Jong Un's North Korea to Gaddafi's Libya was idiocy considering how Gaddafi ended up.
If I were Kim Jong Un I'd cling on to a few nukes. You can't trust the Don.
Wouldn't be long before Trump was letting Israel take drilling rights and the CIA was looking for a nice religious zealot to take the reins.

robinph

I spotted that Pence had been called stupid after the stupid Libya comment, but couldn't see how that line matched up with the description of "tremendous anger and open hostility" Trump was talking about. The idiocy knows no bounds!!!

Captain Obvious

This is just Trump trying to save face with his base after he realised the summit wasn't going to go the way he thought it would.

Lux23

Captain Obvious wrote: »

This is just Trump trying to save face with his base after he realised the summit wasn't going to go the way he thought it would.

Yep, any excuse.

everlast75

Pence was not the only person to refer to "the Libya model" btw. Bolton did too, only to have Trump come out later that day and say that the US were not thinking of the Libya model at all!

Nody

Captain Obvious wrote: »

This is just Trump trying to save face with his base after he realised the summit wasn't going to go the way he thought it would.

Yea; this smells of him trying to get ahead of the real story. Same way he announced on twitter that he "fired" his boards when in reality they actually resigned before that but Trump could not accept them leaving on him as a story.

Christy42

Oh look. Trump failed again. Let's blame anyone and everyone except for Trump. I am shocked by this outcome.

So for those keeping track - when it looked likely that Trump and Kim would meet people were saying he should be getting praise and we had talk of the peace prize.

Now he failed it means he never had control of anything and everything was the deep state. Out of interest can we give credit to those shadowy people who laid out this plan for the increase in the Dow last year?

BloodBath

Would the thread exist if it was Hilary though? You're up to how many posts now?

Granted Trump gives a lot of ammunition for it but it misses the bigger picture.

I hope they find some real dirt on him and others and there is some genuinely revolutionary change in the US because if not we're all fecked.

spacecoyote

BloodBath wrote: »

Would the thread exist if it was Hilary though? You're up to how many posts now?

Granted Trump gives a lot of ammunition for it but it misses the bigger picture.

I hope they find some real dirt on him and others and there is some genuinely revolutionary change in the US because if not we're all fecked.

Obviously not. If HC was president there wouldn't be a "Donald Trump Presidency" thread.

If Hilary was pres & behaving like the Don, YES, there would be a thread on here with people talking about her behaviour.

The difference is, HC may have been a bad president (We'll never know), but I don't think she'd have behaved like Trump does

looksee

Leaving aside the politics involved, that letter is illiterate, ignorant and garbled. It is frightening that someone with nuclear weapons at his disposal is communicating with another demented leader also with nuclear weapons at his disposal on this level.

BloodBath

spacecoyote wrote: »

Obviously not. If HC was president there wouldn't be a "Donald Trump Presidency" thread.

If Hilary was pres & behaving like the Don, YES, there would be a thread on here with people talking about her behaviour.

The difference is, HC may have been a bad president (We'll never know), but I don't think she'd have behaved like Trump does

You know what I meant.

It should be fairly obvious to anyone with any interest in this over the last 20-30 years that the current 2 party system is broken. My only condolence is that a growing number of people are looking for genuine change.

Obama and Trump potentially offered that but quite clearly very little has changed except for the circus around Trumps antics. It's still corrupt politics 101. It's just a lot more obvious with Trump.

hmmm

Trump failed to tell the South Koreans he was going to announce this. Let that sink in for a minute. This Presidency is the greatest disaster for US foreign relations ever - the US will never again be trusted by their allies.

This is Bolton at work - any peace process totally sunk, war being sought.

BloodBath

hmmm wrote: »

Trump failed to tell the South Koreans he was going to announce this. Let that sink in for a minute. This Presidency is the greatest disaster for US foreign relations ever - the US will never again be trusted by their allies.

This is Bolton at work - any peace process totally sunk, war being sought.

The same US that lied about WMD's to topple regime's they didn't like leaving millions dead and displaced and their countries in turmoil to this day?

The same US that spied on their allies?

The same US that supports medieval regimes like the Saudis while they try to topple democratically elected leaders like Assad?

Oh yes their reputation was flawless until Trump came along.

James Brown

BloodBath wrote: »

The same US that lied about WMD's to topple regime's they didn't like leaving millions dead and displaced and their countries in turmoil to this day?

The same US that spied on their allies?

The same US that supports medieval regimes like the Saudis while they try to topple democratically elected leaders like Assad?

Oh yes their reputation was flawless until Trump came along.

This is a Trump thread. He's almost certain to come up. I'm sure there were numerous WMD/Bush threads.
It would be odd, as you seem to be suggesting, to discuss Trump and everyone past and present in equal measure, to justify discussing Trump in a Trump thread. 'Lock her up' and so on, aside.

Egging on North Korea, ignoring the Palestinians while patting BiBi on the back, destabilising relations with Iran, all Trump.

BloodBath

Fair enough I'll leave it at that anyway. GL with the witch hunt but I don't think it will amount to much. These people are above the law.

Cheerful Spring

Where do we go from here now, if there no summit with North Korea? Will Kim started firing missiles he must know that's going to start a war we have reached that stage now.

North Korea was never going to give up nukes for nothing. Pence and Bolton forget the North Koreans listen to American news channels and see their interviews. Threatening them before they even talk was going to provoke a reaction. They should have shut up till they met face to face and see what happens.

Cheerful Spring

hmmm wrote: »

Trump failed to tell the South Koreans he was going to announce this. Let that sink in for a minute. This Presidency is the greatest disaster for US foreign relations ever - the US will never again be trusted by their allies.

This is Bolton at work - any peace process totally sunk, war being sought.

I would entirely blame Bolton. It obvious North Korea wasn't going to just hand over all its weapons and they were sending out mixed signals themselves. What denuclearization for North Korea mean to them?

Christy42

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Where do we go from here now, if there no summit with North Korea? Will Kim started firing missiles he must know that's going to start a war we have reached that stage now.

North Korea was never going to give up nukes for nothing. Pence and Bolton forget the North Koreans listen to American news channels and see their interviews. Threatening them before they even talk was going to provoke a reaction. They should have shut up till they met face to face and see what happens.

They will do little. They will rebuild the program that was delayed by the issues around the facility that collapsed.

He will continue with tests in a while. He has to really. Kim's long term survival depends on it. He has to show that an invasion would be costly while showing he is self interested enough not to launch a suicidal attack.

James Brown

There was talk they were done testing anyway. He'd be nuts to disarm completely.
I believe Trump's personal business interests are tied to Putin's personal business interests, although with them the line between national and personal gets blurred, but we need some kind of counter balance. It's just unfortunate neither is a prize pig.

StringerBell

I see Trump has "cancelled" the meeting next month with Kim. The old you didn't dump me I dumped you play, smooth as ever.

"Nobel" "Nobel" somebody said.

aloyisious

It's clear that Don intended all along, in his usual deal-maker style, not to honour the peace-deal. Lertting MP make a statement insulting NK and dropping a mile-wide hint that the US plan was about regime-change in NK ala Libya where the country's leader was killed by a mob live on TV was a clear scupper-the-deal move. NK and SK should go on with the peace-deal and by doing so, make clear Don is irrelevant. An internal peace-deal would be the best slap across Don's face ever. He'd have to play along to avoid being identified as a war-monger, not that that probably would disturb his sleep.

Whether the US will meet us at a meeting room or encounter us at nuclear-to-nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the decision and behavior of the United States.

It wasn't about calling Pence stupid, not was it the rest of her statement sounding even more juvenile than Trump's letter, it was the above. Two pages in and no one quoted it.

Quin_Dub

Deleted User wrote: »

Whether the US will meet us at a meeting room or encounter us at nuclear-to-nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the decision and behavior of the United States.

It wasn't about calling Pence stupid, not was it the rest of her statement sounding even more juvenile than Trump's letter, it was the above. Two pages in and no one quoted it.

To be fair - what kind of response did they expect when their threat was "do was you're told our you'll end up like Libya and Gaddafi" ??

Anyone that ever genuinely thought that anything would come from this was deluding themselves at best.

everlast75

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Whether the US will meet us at a meeting room or encounter us at nuclear-to-nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the decision and behavior of the United States.

It wasn't about calling Pence stupid, not was it the rest of her statement sounding even more juvenile than Trump's letter, it was the above. Two pages in and no one quoted it.

To be fair, Trump never once used proper diplomatic language when dealing with Kim. He had nick names for him from the start and basically said my dick is bigger than yours. Trump did nothing to defuse the situation so as far as I'm concerned trump is worse.

There were years of intelligence on Kim and how to deal with him. But no - Trump knew better.

He was played like the fool he is. The letter was a piss poor effort to save face.

Christy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Whether the US will meet us at a meeting room or encounter us at nuclear-to-nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the decision and behavior of the United States.

It wasn't about calling Pence stupid, not was it the rest of her statement sounding even more juvenile than Trump's letter, it was the above. Two pages in and no one quoted it.

That is not worse than fire and war? I mean it is written in propaganda speak but it is saying that North Korea is perfectly willing to meet with the US in a meeting room.

I mean I take issue with North Korea as a whole and how they treat people and how they threaten other countries. That piece is a bit of tough talk. Certainly no where near what Donald, some other world leaders or Kim himself has delivered in the past.

If you want to meet with Kim I see no reason why that should stop a meeting. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of reasons not to have a meeting. Most presidents figured that out long before they started ranting about wanting prizes for their efforts fixing Korea.

Igotadose

aloyisious wrote: »

NK and SK should go on with the peace-deal and by doing so, make clear Don is irrelevant. An internal peace-deal would be the best slap across Don's face ever. He'd have to play along to avoid being identified as a war-monger, not that that probably would disturb his sleep.

This. It's up to SK to keep it going, I think.

Trump. The gift that keeps giving. Not really surprised he cancelled it, and the other posters on about Bolton being behind it seems logical to me. And wow what a poorly written letter.

Nobel. Snicker.