Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Overheal

Seems Trump hasn’t heard of the Sixth Amendment,

“Whoever heard of a system where you put people through trials? [...] it’s ridiculous, we’re going to have to change the system, for the good of our country.”

https://www.facebook.com/vicbergeriv/posts/1516679625124848

pixelburp

BloodBath wrote: »

The same US that lied about WMD's to topple regime's they didn't like leaving millions dead and displaced and their countries in turmoil to this day?

The same US that spied on their allies?

The same US that supports medieval regimes like the Saudis while they try to topple democratically elected leaders like Assad?

Oh yes their reputation was flawless until Trump came along.

Absolutely nobody on this thread is naive to the many actions by the US down the years, not least in recent memory when they effectively upended the Middle East during the Iraq / Afghanistan debacles.

But it's equally naive to dismiss Trump as just another continuation of that same status quo; his introduction is a grenade tossed into the norms of diplomacy or even the basics of internal government - you can draw a line from Betsy DeVos & Scott Pruitt all the way up and into this nonsense with the Korean peace talks and see a consistency of incompetence and self-serving belligerence that makes this era more potent & dangerous to internal US politics and the world stage than previous administrations. Yes, even George W Bush: at least they still had professionals in charge of departments - not goddamn Rick Perry.

Overheal wrote: »

Seems Trump hasn’t heard of the Sixth Amendment,

“Whoever heard of a system where you put people through trials? [...] it’s ridiculous, we’re going to have to change the system, for the good of our country.”

https://www.facebook.com/vicbergeriv/posts/1516679625124848

The scary thing is there's always the howling mob lurking somewhere behind the facade of fair governance. It's a shocking thing to say yet even in this country you only need look at the comments section of (say) thejournal to see those who'd vote for Duterte style politics, roving murder squads n' all. I don't doubt what Trump said got more than a few people nodding in agreement.

Leroy42

So Trump calls Kim Little Rocket Man, evil, threatens to destroy Nk but cancels the meeting because they called Pence a moran (but didn't fire his out SoS for calling him one!)

I recall at the time that the possibility of meeting was hurriedly announced (March IIRC) and we had plenty of Trump supporters calling it great and that Trump had succeeded where Obama etc had failed. At the time many pointed out that should it go ahead it was good but wait and see, to which the usual response was that nothing Trump did would ever be good enough.

So where is the condemnation for those posters to Trump failing to get this done? He it was because of him that the meeting was going to take place that it must be a failure on his part to get it done.

From Kim's POV, he gave up three prisoners, has started to dismantle the site, and for what? Just so Trump could throw a strop and call the whole thing off.

It is clear that Trump hadn't a notion what was really involved. What the point of the nukes to NK was, how China would react to US trying to muscle in. The recent statements about US making massive investment in NK if they gave up the nukes. China was never just going to let the US take over NK.

And talk of denuclearisation. To Trump that means NK giving up all their weapons and capabilities. To NK that means removing US from SK. Did Trump even realise this?

jooksavage

Overheal wrote: »

Seems Trump hasn’t heard of the Sixth Amendment,

“Whoever heard of a system where you put people through trials? [...] it’s ridiculous, we’re going to have to change the system, for the good of our country.”

https://www.facebook.com/vicbergeriv/posts/1516679625124848

He definitely hasn't read the Sixth Amendment. Sam Nunberg (Roger Stone lickspittle famous for melting down on multiple news channels in the same afternoon earlier this year) was at one point hired to help Trump understand the constitution:


"I got as far as the Fourth Amendment before his finger is pulling down on his lip and his eyes are rolling back in his head"


Trump himself has little regard for the constitution he swore to uphold and the checks and balances woven into it. To mark his first 100 days in office he did an interview with Fox News (of course) :



“It’s a very rough system. It’s an archaic system. It’s really a bad thing for the country.” Donald Trump, President of the United States.

Chips Lovell

Some abusive posts deleted and actioned. Other posts quoting them also deleted.

I would say read the charter, but no personal abuse is a sitewide rule.

Be nice

Thank you

TRS30

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/us/politics/fbi-informant-russia-congress-briefings.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


Very worrying. DJT wants to be a dictator like his buddy Putin.

Professor Moriarty

TRS30 wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/us/politics/fbi-informant-russia-congress-briefings.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


Very worrying. DJT wants to be a dictator like his buddy Putin.

Paywalled for me, but what right had his lawyer to be at such a briefing?

TRS30

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

TRS30 wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/us/politics/fbi-informant-russia-congress-briefings.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


Very worrying. DJT wants to be a dictator like his buddy Putin.

Paywalled for me, but what right had his lawyer to be at such a briefing?

None, or his chief of staff!

Professor Moriarty

TRS30 wrote: »

None, or his chief of staff!

Any objections from the GOP? Any Republican senators or house reps expressing concern? I'm going to guess no.

TRS30

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

TRS30 wrote: »

None, or his chief of staff!

Any objections from the GOP? Any Republican senators or house reps expressing concern? I'm going to guess no.

Ryan says nothing about anything. McConnell is in hoc to Trump now via his brother in law and Nunes, well enough said about him the better.

D reps told Flood he shouldn't have been there however Kelly shot them down, according to the article.

everlast75

TRS30 wrote: »

None, or his chief of staff!

It has been reported that he was there for the beginning of each of the two meetings in order to express DJT's wish for openness in the process. Hilarious really.

It was also reported that the briefers did not reveal the name of the informant nor did not share any documents.

Mitch McConnell, one of the gang of 8 said that after the meeting, he still believes the Mueller investigation should continue. Furthermore, the fact that Nunes didn't slip on his Nikes to go sprinting to the WH and or Press with what they learned seems to me (thankfully) like they were played and he didn't get what he wanted.

Trump demands and inquiry and meeting. Rod knows what's on the docs - agrees to two meetings which should not happen in the knowledge that it will take the sting out of the rants and also that the FBI did nothing wrong.

Now, will you hear Trump today announce that he was happy with the outcome? Will you ****. All he cares about is repeating certain phrases to his echo chamber so that when the indictments come, and they will come, he can claim he is the victim here.

Professor Moriarty

everlast75 wrote: »

It has been reported that he was there for the beginning of each of the two meetings in order to express DJT's wish for openness in the process. Hilarious really.

It was also reported that the briefers did not reveal the name of the informant nor did not share any documents.

Mitch McConnell, one of the gang of 8 said that after the meeting, he still believes the Mueller investigation should continue. Furthermore, the fact that Nunes didn't slip on his Nikes to go sprinting to the WH and or Press with what they learned seems to me (thankfully) like they were played and he didn't get what he wanted.

Trump demands and inquiry and meeting. Rod knows what's on the docs - agrees to two meetings which should not happen in the knowledge that it will take the sting out of the rants and also that the FBI did nothing wrong.

Now, will you hear Trump today announce that he was happy with the outcome? Will you ****. All he cares about is repeating certain phrases to his echo chamber so that when the indictments come, and they will come, he can claim he is the victim here.

If you keep repeating something people will start believing it. He did it very effectively when campaigning against HC. Now he is brainwashing his gullible base so that, as you say, they will believe his victim status. It's classic populist strategy.

everlast75

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If you keep repeating something people will start believing it. He did it very effectively when campaigning against HC. Now he is brainwashing his gullible base so that, as you say, they will believe his victim status. It's classic populist strategy.

Yup.

Its an absolute disgrace that he and others who work for the US (SHS for example), refer to the matter as a witch hunt. Disgrace pure and simple. It's almost the norm now but if you actually stop and think about it - its outrageous.

Hannity, O'Reilly and the rest of those lunatics can scream away, but there is an active investigation by their intelligence agencies of the US and they are actively rubbishing their own employees.

He was at this victim stuff from the start. "The election is rigged" was a common phrase, "mass voter fraud" etc.. until of course he won. Then the election was completely sound and legitimate.

He blamed judges as being biased against him, until one involved in one of the two Manafort cases sounded off about Mueller's mandate, and then he was lauded as a great judge. Wait until that judge dismisses Manafort's application and that judicial system will be back to being corrupt.

KJU was an honourable guy, until he withdrew from the talks - and then he was the baddie once again.

Now its the investigation that's rigged. But if it doesn't (and let's hope that it does) reveal any corruption, you can bet it was a completely fair result.

How anyone can not see how much of a bullshít artist he is, well the mind boggles.

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

How anyone can not see how much of a bullshít artist he is, well the mind boggles.

The problem is that they see it and keep going along with it, despite probably knowing better.

TRS30

everlast75 wrote: »

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If you keep repeating something people will start believing it. He did it very effectively when campaigning against HC. Now he is brainwashing his gullible base so that, as you say, they will believe his victim status. It's classic populist strategy.

Yup.  

Its an absolute disgrace that he and others who work for the US (SHS for example), refer to the matter as a witch hunt. Disgrace pure and simple. It's almost the norm now but if you actually stop and think about it - its outrageous.

Hannity, O'Reilly and the rest of those lunatics can scream away, but there is an active investigation by their intelligence agencies of the US and they are actively rubbishing their own employees.

He was at this victim stuff from the start. "The election is rigged" was a common phrase, "mass voter fraud" etc.. until of course he won. Then the election was completely sound and legitimate.

He blamed judges as being biased against him, until one involved in one of the two Manafort cases sounded off about Mueller's mandate, and then he was lauded as a great judge. Wait until that judge dismisses Manafort's application and that judicial system will be back to being corrupt.

KJU was an honourable guy, until he withdrew from the talks - and then he was the baddie once again.

Now its the investigation that's rigged. But if it doesn't (and let's hope that it does) reveal any corruption, you can bet it was a completely fair result.

How anyone can not see how much of a bullshít artist he is, well the mind boggles.

If nothing sticks from the investigation then I can see him saying what a great guy Muller is, how his investigation was brilliant and he supported him all along........

everlast75

Trump up at 5:04 am tweeting.

Those walls must be getting very, very close now.

Professor Moriarty

everlast75 wrote: »

Trump up at 5:04 am tweeting.

Those walls must be getting very, very close now.

Can't imagine him getting a restful 8 hours every night. Despite the blissful ignorance of his narcissism, his mind must be a very tortured place.

wes

So nearly 1,500 migrant children are missing after being separated from there parents:

Almost 1,500 Migrant Children Placed in Homes by the U.S. Government Went Missing Last Year


All I can say is WTF? There is something really rotten in the US right now, as this is just evil. I have no other words for this.

RIGOLO

Big news item on Bloomberg this week 
[font=Helvetica, sans-serif]China Makes Massive Cut to Car Tariffs After Truce With Trump
[/font][font=Times New Roman, serif]reports BLOOMBERG https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-22/china-is-said-to-cut-car-import-duty-in-boost-for-lexus-bmw[/font]
[font=Times New Roman, serif]  [/font]
[font=Times New Roman, serif]And the FT is reporting a cut in China sorghun tariffs.
[/font] China offers trade olive branch by scrapping tariffs on US sorghum
[font=Times New Roman, serif]https://www.ft.com/content/79287cb8-5a4e-11e8-bdb7-f6677d2e1ce8[/font]

They may have called off the trade war, but both Bloomberg and FT are reporting some wins for the US in some trade battles.

Good news for US auto workers , US farmers in the mid west, Wall Street as both auto stocks and CBOT were trading higher as well as 401ks, and European auto stocks.
[font=Times New Roman, serif]Following the main stream media 9 times out of 10 its going to be biased reporting, left,right,red or blue its generally biased .
But the buisness news channels will often by apolitical and report on whats really happening in the details. [/font]

aloyisious

RTE news showing a clip where today Don say's talks are on with NK and the cancelled meeting may go ahead. He's a head-wrecker.

everlast75

So despite the ICE clusterf*** of losing around 1500 children, there are 2 further stories breaking.

One concerns a possible reason why McConnell refused to allow a bill to the floor to protect Mueller. There is c-span footage of him going in to trump tower the day one of the main oligarchs visited around the time of the elections.

The second is that Spanish police have obtained wiretaps of Don Jr speaking to a Putin ally at an NRA meeting. A top spanish prosecutor said donny jr should be very worried.

(That's not to even mention that Assange wants to meet Schiff).

Anyone else feel like its a Ra's Al Ghul moment - burn all the GOP to the ground and start over?

Christy42

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/27/rudy-giuliani-spygate-robert-mueller-donald-trump


Giuliani seems to be admitting that spy gate is purely for public opinion and that they have no belief in the what they are saying about it. I expect this admission to make no difference to those who believe it.

Leroy42

Christy42 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/27/rudy-giuliani-spygate-robert-mueller-donald-trump


Giuliani seems to be admitting that spy gate is purely for public opinion and that they have no belief in the what they are saying about it. I expect this admission to make no difference to those who believe it.

You have to admire (in an evil way, mind) how successful Trump has been in convincing such a large amount of people to basically give up all their previous beliefs to support him. The media carry some responsibility, as they still continue to give him the oxygen and take his statements at face value rather than the critical view that they should be met with. They should be less quick to give "Braking News" of his latest statement or tweet and actually do some fact checking to go along with the story.

so, "Breaking News" about his latest tweet, followed by the statement that none of this is verified and goes against all known facts.

But overall, there is a massive amount of people in the US, all of them saying they are committed to the US, but have shown scant regard for it and are clearly fully committed to Trump.

As Trump previously stated, he could shoot someone and people would still vote for him, and I think that is terrible that people have let themselves become so invested in their "Team" that they cannot see the wrong that is being done to their country.

If there are people within certain organisations (such as the FBI etc) that have done wrong then the US have systems in place to deal with them. This continually tweeting (which comes across to me as crying from Trump, asking for something to be done as if he weren't POTUS) is demeaning of a developed country.

The fact that many of his supporters are also ardent supporters of his children, shows how far down the level of cult they have travelled.

everlast75

Over the weekend, with the tweet by him which denied that a member of his staff exists, I have noted a turn by the media towards doing what I said about a month ago should happen; stop calling them "untruths", "misleading", incorrect" etc. and call them what they are - lies.

Maggy Haberman is getting an awful lot of criticism for her failure to do it, which is giving more oxygen to the discussion, which is great.

An MSNBC anchor has started to call out the lies before she actually refers to the tweet. It just indicates to me that people are now calling for the journalists to grow some balls and call it as it is.

Later than I hoped it would happen, but I think most of his lies up to now have had a screed of truth in them or willfull manipulation, but with the mounting evidence against him, he is down to out and out lies. It is less crafty and more desperate now which means D Day is coming.

(On a more trivial point, Melania has not been seen for days and has changed her twitter location to New York :O )

FreudianSlippers

everlast75 wrote: »

Over the weekend, with the tweet by him which denied that a member of his staff exists, I have noted a turn by the media towards doing what I said about a month ago should happen; stop calling them "untruths", "misleading", incorrect" etc. and call them what they are - lies.

Maggy Haberman is getting an awful lot of criticism for her failure to do it, which is giving more oxygen to the discussion, which is great.

An MSNBC anchor has started to call out the lies before she actually refers to the tweet. It just indicates to me that people are now calling for the journalists to grow some balls and call it as it is.

Later than I hoped it would happen, but I think most of his lies up to now have had a screed of truth in them or willfull manipulation, but with the mounting evidence against him, he is down to out and out lies. It is less crafty and more desperate now which means D Day is coming.

(On a more trivial point, Melania has not been seen for days and has changed her twitter location to New York :O )

I think some journalists are starting to realise that real journalism is in serious trouble and are finally starting to call out the bull****. Too little, too late unfortunately IMO.

everlast75

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I think some journalists are starting to realise that real journalism is in serious trouble and are finally starting to call out the bull****. Too little, too late unfortunately IMO.

Its a tough line to walk. Act up too much and you don't get "access" to the White House.

Mind you, access to WH press conferences aren't worth your time when SHS is dishing out scorn and disinformation

Leroy42

everlast75 wrote: »

Its a tough line to walk. Act up too much and you don't get "access" to the White House.

Mind you, access to WH press conferences aren't worth your time when SHS is dishing out scorn and disinformation

This. The media still seem to be operating on the previous understanding of 'working together'. The POTUS and WH needs the media to get its message out and the media needs POTUS and WH get know the happenings for breaking news.

But breaking news now comes either directly from Twitter or from leaks. Neither of which need access at all. The media have tried to play the game (for that is traditionally what it is) based on the old rules, but Trump has tossed them all out and it has taken the media far too ling to understand that.

The SHS press briefings for example. They are not about sharing information, they are adversarial matches where SHS must beat the press and show how terrible they are at every turn. It is a change to settle scores. It has always been a PR exercise of course, but people understood that and at least some truth was told, with a particular spin.

People like Lemon etc have taken a harder line whilst some others continue to work on the old assumptions.

Trump is at war with the media, the media are working on the belief that peace talks will save them.

Itssoeasy

everlast75 wrote: »

Over the weekend, with the tweet by him which denied that a member of his staff exists, I have noted a turn by the media towards doing what I said about a month ago should happen; stop calling them "untruths", "misleading", incorrect" etc. and call them what they are - lies.

Maggy Haberman is getting an awful lot of criticism for her failure to do it, which is giving more oxygen to the discussion, which is great.

An MSNBC anchor has started to call out the lies before she actually refers to the tweet. It just indicates to me that people are now calling for the journalists to grow some balls and call it as it is.

Later than I hoped it would happen, but I think most of his lies up to now have had a screed of truth in them or willfull manipulation, but with the mounting evidence against him, he is down to out and out lies. It is less crafty and more desperate now which means D Day is coming.

(On a more trivial point, Melania has not been seen for days and has changed her twitter location to New York :O )

Was that Nicole wallace who was doing that ? I saw her stop reading tweets of trump and just saying it's lies. And she's a conservative.

Thargor

I had to research it to see if its real, sadly it is:



https://nypost.com/2018/05/28/trump-visits-arlington-after-critics-slam-appalling-memorial-day-tweet/

circadian

That is a low point. A leaf out of Alex Jones' book.