Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

ECO_Mental

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Isn't there something also when you pardon someone for a crime they commited they can't plead the 5th anymore as they can't be prosecuted for that crime. So when questioned by FBI etc they have to spill the beans. There is risk to pardoning also, could be wrong but I thought I heard that somewhere

I don't know to be honest. I hope you're right though.

Yep should have googled it before I posted to confirm. Here's a Times article from last year

http://time.com/4868418/donald-trump-presidential-pardons-backfire/

pixelburp

"Anti Trumpers", for gods sake it's not a sports team. Being critical of an administration that contains "the best people" such as Rick Perry, Scott Pruitt or - jaysus - Ben Carson, is scarely much of an ask.

Professor Moriarty

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Yep should have googled it before I posted to confirm. Here's a Times article from last year

http://time.com/4868418/donald-trump-presidential-pardons-backfire/

The article seems to suggest that a pardon would eliminate most of the 5th amendment which would not be in The Donald's interest. It also could bring Congress into play (if the pardoned person refuses to testify) which would be extremely interesting as each GOP rep would have to vote for a second pardon. At that stage, democracy would have gone through the looking glass.

ECO_Mental

dublinbuster wrote: »

Ben D Bus wrote: »

I hate to say it, but these are the key points.

It doesn't even matter if low unemployment and the tax cuts are temporary, once they last through to the mid-terms Trump will survive. Only a home run by Muller can stop the Trump train at this stage.

It's quite scary.

How is it scary?
The Democrats with the help of the FBI and CIA tried to rig a election and failed, that the scary thing that you anti Trumpers skip over.

Trump and his fellow conspirators are in a world of trouble, just because you choose to blank out all the evidence that's your problem. Even Trump knows this himself and is practically admitting it throwing out suggestions I could pardon myself! That's not the words an innocent man, if he has nothing to hide why all the fear in sitting down and talking to Mueller?

This investigation has already gotten guilty convictions and these guys are singing like caneries. When Mueller's report comes out the **** is going to hit the fan BIG TIME for Trump. I predict it will be devastating for the American political system and I can't wait. Interesting times ahead

Professor Moriarty

pixelburp wrote: »

"Anti Trumpers", for gods sake it's not a sports team. Being critical of an administration that contains "the best people" such as Rick Perry, Scott Pruitt or - jaysus - Ben Carson, is scarely much of an ask.

But the Dems rigging of the election, Pizzagate, Crooked Hillary's emails etcetera ad nauseam

Leroy42

Based on Trumps letter to Mueller it would seem that Trump believes he has the power to start any investigation he wants.

Thus one needs to ask, why is Trump protecting HC by not investigating her? 500 days in office and he still allows one of tge greatest threats to the US, the hub of both a corruption with Russia and the illegal use of FBI and CIA, and yet he has done little more than tweet about it like any nutjob conspiracy theorist sitting in their mammys basement.

Christy42

dublinbuster wrote: »

Trump never said this.
You might be getting confused with the democrats pedo pizza conspiracy storys

Apologies. Shoot someone. Now if you are done with the nitpicking? The point stands.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/24/donald-trump-says-he-could-shoot-somebody-and-still-not-lose-voters

More of a quote than a crazy conspiracy theory like the pizza gate nonsense from the right was.

Itssoeasy

I know we talk about trump and his alledged affairs but Jesus h Christ I've just listening to bill Clinton put his foot in it about Monica lewinsky. Has he learned anything in 20 years ? Also he sounds awful.

StringerBell

dublinbuster wrote: »

The delusion is strong, your like cant see the forest for the trees, it plays out the same every time.
According to never Trumpers he has been finished dozens on times, and yet he is still going strong, within a week talks with North Korea, if a deal is done, it should get him a Nobel Prize,(look what Obama got one for SFA).
China is giving concessions on trade tariffs that the experts said would never happen.
Employment number rising.
Tax cuts for workers.
He is getting more popular, dont believe me, look at the nielsen tv ratings in US, TV shows that have a anti Trump bias are loosing viewers at a alarming rate.
WSJ is weekly posting positive stories of Trumps success, they are coming thick and fast, the media can no longer ignore them.

The post is so full of generalisations and inaccuracies I am genuinely not sure where to start on a personal level so....

Sure look it, isn't he a great lad. He is really MAGA and I'm sure has a great chance at re-election in 2020. Nothing to worry about for old Donnie, the stormy waters are surely behind him now and its just going to be plain sailing from here on in.

Just sidestep the inevitable impeachment and he is home free. Very obvious to see from this side of the Atlantic.

StringerBell

dublinbuster wrote: »

How is it scary?
The Democrats with the help of the FBI and CIA tried to rig a election and failed, that the scary thing that you anti Trumpers skip over.

You sir, are Fake News.

I do love the juxtaposition though of an all powerful, all knowing deep state who have so much control yet failed to stop a buffoon getting elected

How you square that circle is a feat of mental gymnastics and fair play to you for it, of course we must now forget that Comey torpedoed Clinton, that none of the negative light was shone on the Trump campaign at all. We must forget that the FBI was nicknamed Trumpland, we are supposed to pretend that people who have been shown time and time again to be liars are telling the truth when they "correct" the "mistakes" in their stories.

These coincide funnily enough with flat out denials for as long as possible, then small admission while making light of the issue then bigger admission then full out confirmation the original version of events was a complete fabrication all the while, with a straight face that is again, very impressive, claiming the moral high ground and portraying themselves as whiter than white victims.

The hypocrisy is superb, the biggest "snowflake" in the country sits in the Oval office (when the golf career allows) and the lemmings cheer for their dear leader no matter what just to try get a "win" for their team. This guy flat out lies to and ****s over the people who idolise him the most.

As I said, it is if nothing else, impressive. By the way, do you take classes to learn the buzzwords and how to parrot or is it just from reading the various forums you get immersed in the lingo?

StringerBell

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I know we talk about trump and his alledged affairs but Jesus h Christ I've just listening to bill Clinton put his foot in it about Monica lewinsky. Has he learned anything in 20 years ? Also he sounds awful.

Bill Clinton has nothing to do with this thread tbf but yep he certainly played that badly.

All he had to do was say he apologised at the time, regrets how it went, still to this day etc. The usual platitudes. He has since walked back some of his comments saying he got a little "hot under the collar" but the damage is done really.

Trumps affairs are certainly not in the alleged category anymore, you don't pay hush money and have NDA's to conceal nothing.

Hazys

Here’s the ultimate patriot Trump realizing he doesn’t know the words to God Bless America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozz7K-QNF4Q

Andy

dublinbuster wrote: »

How is it scary?
The Democrats with the help of the FBI and CIA tried to rig a election and failed, that the scary thing that you anti Trumpers skip over.

Let's be real, no election meddling actually occurred from the Democrats. As a registered Democrat turned conservative, with you being a (seemingly) non-American you can't claim "elections were RIGGED!" when you haven't got a clue how they work.

Until you can provide proof that isn't some LIBERLSRCUCKS.xyz website, stop saying it like it's gospel.

Christy42

So the white house has put put an official statement saying the Eagles abandoned their fans.

I mean compared to the other stuff it isn't that bad but it is just sad (sorry SAD) and pathetic.

Especially as people seem to be happy to have him lie about the players kneeling/staying in the locker for the anthem.

This entire administration has the mentality of a toddler throwing a tantrum.

RIGOLO

Good timeline synopsis of the whole Manafort, Trump, Russia thing , its hard to keep track but this is a fairly good attempt

https://billmoyers.com/story/manafort-russia-timeline/

Manaforts problems stem from issues many years before he ever joined Trumps team. 
Theres no issue here from Trump, impeachment is a pipe dream. As someone else said people get worked up on Monday , the sky is falling in on Trump, by Wednesday they cool off, and by Friday they find a new reason to impeach him and get worked up again. At one point someone here wanted to impeach Trump for using his position to target Jeff Bezos because Trump said Amazon (profits 50billion private individual) should pay more for postage with the USPS (losses 2 -6 billion per year, taxpayers money ), that would be as hard to impeach Trump on as the Muller investigation, considering Amazon got a 1billion windfall thanks to Trumps tax changes. 

Mueller blew his ace card by indicting Manafort on the old (pre-Trump) charges,  he lost his leverage and also given DT a get out. How can he be impeached for something an aide did 4 years before joining his campaign. Muellers indictment so early in the investigation was a clear signal that Mueller didnt think he would find much as he investigated, he thought the early indictment would cause some panic and missteps  and lead to further revelations but the ploy has backfired.  

Its all working against Democrats, they have all their eggs in  Mueller probe and getting a conviction, which is higly unlikely, and even so it could be another 2 years. 
I think Dems would have been better off to move on, and concentrate on getting their own house in order and winning back the WH that way. The Mueller probe , whihc will ultimately be unsuccessful is sucking up all the oxygen in the deabte, its just entrenching Trumps supporters and removing a platform for Democrats to win back votes cos they are getting pulled into the investigation mire also..  

Meanwhile in the California Primary the turnout has been dissapointingly low, it looks like the Blue 'wave' that was goign to sweep back the legislative branch failed to materialise. Ah well better add another egg to the Mueller investigation basket so , cos it doesnt look like Dems will retain control of the house and Senate via the polling booth.

Wanderer78

Christy42 wrote:

This entire administration has the mentality of a toddler throwing a tantrum.

It is indeed very disturbing to watch, and those hardcore supporters will not be turned. Don't be surprised of a second term!

Hande hoche!

Really wouldn't want to be in Manafort's shoes. There's probably a good reason why he is the only one of the Americans charged not co-operating.

Captain Obvious

dublinbuster wrote: »

The delusion is strong,

Yes that was my point. His fans are in a delusional bubble.

Captain Obvious

RIGOLO wrote: »

Good timeline synopsis of the whole Manafort, Trump, Russia thing , its hard to keep track but this is a fairly good attempt

https://billmoyers.com/story/manafort-russia-timeline/

Manaforts problems stem from issues many years before he ever joined Trumps team.
Theres no issue here from Trump, impeachment is a pipe dream. As someone else said people get worked up on Monday , the sky is falling in on Trump, by Wednesday they cool off, and by Friday they find a new reason to impeach him and get worked up again. At one point someone here wanted to impeach Trump for using his position to target Jeff Bezos because Trump said Amazon (profits 50billion private individual) should pay more for postage with the USPS (losses 2 -6 billion per year, taxpayers money ), that would be as hard to impeach Trump on as the Muller investigation, considering Amazon got a 1billion windfall thanks to Trumps tax changes.

Mueller blew his ace card by indicting Manafort on the old (pre-Trump) charges, he lost his leverage and also given DT a get out. How can he be impeached for something an aide did 4 years before joining his campaign. Muellers indictment so early in the investigation was a clear signal that Mueller didnt think he would find much as he investigated, he thought the early indictment would cause some panic and missteps and lead to further revelations but the ploy has backfired.

Its all working against Democrats, they have all their eggs in Mueller probe and getting a conviction, which is higly unlikely, and even so it could be another 2 years.
I think Dems would have been better off to move on, and concentrate on getting their own house in order and winning back the WH that way. The Mueller probe , whihc will ultimately be unsuccessful is sucking up all the oxygen in the deabte, its just entrenching Trumps supporters and removing a platform for Democrats to win back votes cos they are getting pulled into the investigation mire also..

Meanwhile in the California Primary the turnout has been dissapointingly low, it looks like the Blue 'wave' that was goign to sweep back the legislative branch failed to materialise. Ah well better add another egg to the Mueller investigation basket so , cos it doesnt look like Dems will retain control of the house and Senate via the polling booth.

Will you be responding to any points made or are you automated?

Professor Moriarty

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Will you be responding to any points made or are you automated?

Suggesting that "it doesnt look like Dems will retain control of the house and Senate via the polling booth." greatly undermines the poster/automaton's credibility.

RIGOLO

No sign of the blue tide that was going to sweep the mid-terms gathering momentum in California , of all places youd have thought California was where this might manifest itself.
In fact its been pretty lackluster.
When I said last week posters should not get to worked up over the long weekend , about the contracting Dems lead in the generic Congressional ballot , I was asking people to take the weekend off and enjoy it, I wasn’t implying you should ignore that trend completely, that would be plain stupid to ignore a national trend that’s going against you.  
As Nate Silver fivethirtyeight said himself, theres plenty for Democrats to start to get worried about for the mid-terms , and I reckon California is already showing the cracks.
 
 
Reading between the lines on the California primaries, there is little evidence of a ‘blue tide rising’ . The MSM sites have plenty info, but LAtimes coverage has been good.
Remember Calif primaries are jungle, first 2 past the post (irrespective of party) go on to contest the house, senate, guvnor seats come November.
 
So first point turnout was reportedly low, its back at 2014 levels, lower than 2016 even . I thought Dems were going to flood the polling booths and win back control with the ballot.
 
 
Ex 2 time LA mayor , Latin-American Democrat Villaraigosa lost out to a Trump backed John Cox in the run off to contest California Guvenor.
Democrats may still retain Guvenor under Newson, but instead of it being the potential 2 horse Dem contest in November, its now going to be a Dem versus Trump endorsed Rep.

Any concern for Republican Devin Nunes have been swept away,pre-primary a lot of talk said nunes would suffer for his inter-actions with the Muller investigation, well the California electorate seem to be responding positively to Devin Nunes efforts to clean up that part of the swamp.
He polled far better than expected in a district where Trump won 51% of vote, and now Nunes has come in with 58% of the jungle primary ballot, with the nearest Democrat on 34%, so Nunes looks strong to hold the seat. Thats 58% of the California voters in that district, telling him to keep doing what he is doing. 
 
 
On the plus side San Diego democrats may get a lock-in on having 2 dem candidates to claim a GOP held Assembly seat there, so that’s a win.
But its going to take weeks for the final counts to be confirmed.
 
But in more bad news for the Blue Tide , Democrats have lost their super-majority in California due to recall of democrat member Newman
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2018-06-05/recall-election-metoo-lead-california-legislative-battles
All this because he voted to raise the tax on GAS in California , weren’t the anti-trumpers saying rising gas prices were due to DT,
well not if you live in CA , it’s the Dems who voted that hike thru, and now it’s the Republicans who are riding the wave of voters rejection of that hike .
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-gas-tax-election-20180426-story.html
 
 
Hard to tell if this is a positive or a negative for the Democrats.
Diane Feinstein topped the primary poll, which you think would be a good thing , but the only problem is her own party , the California Democrat convention actually didn’t support her ,
and had endorsed a different liberal younger and more progressive candidate back in Feb.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2018/02/25/feinstein-loses-california-democratic-partys-endorsement/?utm_term=.e9fcb2165e1e
 
 
Like Ive said Democrats have more more issues in their own house to get sorted before they can hope to launch any serious attack either in the mid-terms or 2020.

aloyisious

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Suggesting that "it doesnt look like Dems will retain control of the house and Senate via the polling booth." greatly undermines the poster/automaton's credibility.

It's possible he's referencing the Califorian State Senate and State House of Representatives which are controlled by the Dems.

Ah, it look's like he is.

listermint

This is increasingly looking automated.


How long can this go on, I dont know. But its not even subtle

Manic Moran

Having the CA primary being D vs R is not as good for moderates as the Newsom/Villaraigosa match would have been. The Newsom/Cox result is a very definite win for the more liberal wing of the California Democrats, and unless Newsom utterly screws up by the numbers, he will be the next governor of CA. Fortunately, I expect to have moved out of State by then.

However, the afore-mentioned problem of Newsom’s tactics of bringing Republican voters out to the polls has indeed affected the lesser races in the Republican favor. Not sure where this idea of CA’s gas hike being an R thing came from. It has long been known by the CA voters that this was part of a general D plan for California. The “recall” attempt has been talked about for some time. Not as if this was unexpected: Many Californians outside of San Francisco have cars and drive a lot: The recall of Governor Davis and his replacement by Schwarzenegger over car tax should have been a good learning point. I paid $4.21a gallon yesterday. I saw over $6/ gallon by Yosemite. Any fall in Democrat fortunes in CA, and make no mistake this remains a Blue State, are due to disagreements by the citizens over the direction CA’s legislature has taken, and should not be viewed as a particular reflection on the national viewpoint, I don’t think.

Something I have noticed about the campaigns is that all the candidates I am receiving messages about seem to emphasize being against the NRA. I got one message saying that Candidate X for District Attorney would fight the NRA to get illegal guns off the streets. That was his sole policy position in the message. (A query as to if it was his position that the NRA supported illegal guns went unreplied to).Many others made it one of two or three.

Whilst I understand that it is a high profile issue, I don’t think many voters in CA consider it a very important issue to vote over It is probably more important to more people to drop the high speed rail boondoggle, or keep the water running, than it is to be fighting over guns. I suspect that those who emphasized our daily problems performed better. To that end, there may be a similarity with the 2016 Presidential election.

aloyisious

RIGOLO wrote: »

No sign of the blue tide that was going to sweep the mid-terms gathering momentum in California , of all places youd have thought California was where this might manifest itself.
In fact its been pretty lackluster.
 
Like Ive said Democrats have more more issues in their own house to get sorted before they can hope to launch any serious attack either in the mid-terms or 2020.

Are you doing some sort of extrapolating here, from the California setting to the national scene, in your estimating? Will the same actually apply there or will local sentiments affect the vote, like, say Florida?

everlast75

The whole Eagles episode was a complete clusterf***.

Some of them decide not to go.

He cancels the event because he has issues re crowd size

He gets on twitter and accuses them of not respecting the anthem by taking a knee.

Fact is none of them ever took the knee.

Fact is the protest in general is not about disrespecting the anthem but protesting police brutality.

He accuses them of staying in the locker room.

Fact is they didn't do that either.

Fox News use a pic of players taking a knee to support his narrative.

Fact was they were praying and Fox were forced to apologise.

He hosts an event anyway to celebrate nationalism. There are **** all people there and at this very event, to show how patriotic he is, he is filmed proving that he doesn't know the words to the national anthem.

The guy is a complete joke of a human being.

josip

But is still representative of the country of which he is President (as are all elected Presidents).

Which is unfortunate for the international image of that country, but maybe the reality of what the US is like on the ground will become more obvious to those who think it's all NASA and Hollywood.

RIGOLO

I think whats happening in California extrapolates out to the nation on many obvious levels ....

1) Dems need to flip 40+ seats to retake the house , they were relying on California to deliver 8 of these, if California doesnt deliver on these wins (take a Rep seat) then the House does not flip. 

2) Theres suppossed to be a blue tide ready to roll come the mid-terms, but at the first oppurtuinity to manifest itself its a no-show, in California (of all places). So yes if low voter turnout and no swing to the democrats is happening in Claifornia, then by all means Democrats should be worried they wont get that swing in other states in Nov, including Florida. 

3) The gas hike (state tax) issue is particular to California, but again its partly reflects the loss of contact Democrats have had with the working/middle class. Who thought it would be a good idea to raise taxs in the state which is already the most expensive state to live in , and not have a backlash at the polls.  Going by the low turnout and no major evidence of a swing, Dems seem have lost touch with the electorate, working and middle class in California and potentially no doubt in other states also, is that a national trend. 

Could we be moving from a blue-tide recovery in November to a potential red-tide sweep to further embolden Trump and the Republican party. Some commentators are talking of a red-sweep.. 
And if Mueller doesnt deliver on the witch hunt then it may well come to pass. 
And the Democrats dont seem to have a plan B, they put all their eggs in Plan A - Mueller investigation.

everlast75

josip wrote: »

But is still representative of the country of which he is President (as are all elected Presidents).

Which is unfortunate for the international image of that country, but maybe the reality of what the US is like on the ground will become more obvious to those who think it's all NASA and Hollywood.

Trump I get - he's a f***ing self-entitled narcissist devoid of any shame. That's his excuse/reason for his behaviour.

However, I cannot genuinely understand how anyone can honestly support.

I simply cannot wrap my head around it and don't think i ever will be able to. I've heard them speak on tv multiple times and absolutely none of what they say in support of makes any sense at all. None of it. Its baffling

rossie1977

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not sure where this idea of CA’s gas hike being an R thing came from.

The president has always owned gas prices, rightly or wrongly. Obama was crucified in his early months due to rising gas prices.

Even conservative media were warning about what would
happen https://nypost.com/2018/05/08/gas-prices-could-soar-with-us-withdrawing-from-iran-deal/