Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

weisses

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the point in even trying to answer. I'll just join you guys.

**** TRUMP. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

What are you trying to answer ?

There is no deal, zip, nada

It was a 20 million circle jerk performed by 2 narcissists

Kim was working for years towards this moment, not caring for one bit who was in the white house

Phonehead

Phonehead wrote: »

In all due respect Ads, when people ask you for backup to support your claims you can't always just fallback on **** trump*** useless. I genuinely want to understand what I am missing and want Trump supporters to explain, i want you to explain as I most likely do have unconscious bias towards Trump.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I just see him as another shltty American president in a long run of them.

weisses wrote: »

What are you trying to answer ?

There is no deal, zip, nada

It was a 20 million circle jerk performed by 2 narcissists

Kim was working for years towards this moment, not caring for one bit who was in the white house

Which is why I said earlier:


Peregrinus, if NK had tested a thermonuclear bomb at the start of Obama's or Bush's presidency, they'd have almost certainly met NK just like Trump did. Likewise, Hillary would probably meet if she were president.



I don't see anything special in what Trump has done. I have not claimed that once in this thread. Every president would have done the same and whoever happens to be presidents of SK and the US while this happens are achieving something.

I have been appalled by NK for around 15 years and unlike most here, see it as a massive issue and not just a thing Trump has to deal with.


I can continue to post here as the middle ground, but only if posters stop blatantly lying about what I've said. It's ridiculous that you all picture me wearing a MAGA hat. I honestly think some of you are trying to make me get myself banned so you don't have to listen to any dissent.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm calm actually. I just realise this is pointless because three or four posters, including yourself see me as a caricature, and are attributing things to me I never said or meant.

No Nody, I don't. I hate Trump now. Your points were astonishingly effective.

You are calm yet post things like

Yeah, **** Trump. Useless ****.

Hardly adding to the debate.

Again, you made the statement that the DNC and CNN would be better to give Trump the credit he deserves. Many have posted out that there is very little to actually give credit for and in addition highlighted the clear hypocrisy in how Trump dealt with Iran (and was roundly cheered by the GOP and FOX) and this.

You find it hard to get anywhere because you don't make any points to discuss. And when challenged you revert to claiming that nobody is listening to you.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

You are calm yet post things like

Hardly adding to the debate.

That was clearly satire. I literally said "I'm going to hate Trump now."

Leroy42 wrote: »

Again, you made the statement that the DNC and CNN would be better to give Trump the credit he deserves. Many have posted out that there is very little to actually give credit for and in addition highlighted the clear hypocrisy in how Trump dealt with Iran (and was roundly cheered by the GOP and FOX) and this.

All I said was they should congratulate him for him "accomplishment". I believe I wrote that before any details actually came out and "congratulations for an accomplishment" is vastly different to "give him the credit he deserves". Worlds apart.

Most people see this as a step in the right direction while CNN are saying that Trump is putting NK on the same level as Canada because the White House published what they'd eat for lunch.

Why not say "Trump seems to have handled this as well as could be expected.". He has after all.

Leroy42 wrote: »

You find it hard to get anywhere because you don't make any points to discuss. And when challenged you revert to claiming that nobody is listening to you.

I have defended myself repeatedly on here and never make stuff up about other posters. There's a constant barrage of nonsense being hurled at me here with new posters entering and not looking at anything I've written.

Phonehead

We are all appalled by NK but I'm failing to see how this meeting and the muted concessions can be seen as any form of success story for anyone other than Kim. The military exercises were always something that the NK regime despised.

Phonehead

Phonehead wrote: »

We are all appalled by NK but I'm failing to see how this meeting and the muted concessions can be seen as any form of success story for anyone other than Kim. The military exercises were always something that the NK regime despised.

I'm off the opinion that the US should get out of SK pretty much entirely and park their subs in international waters within firing distance of Pyongyang.

Troops on the ground are only needed for an invasion. The exercises are an expensive show of force and if getting rid of them helps move things forward, then so be it. The troops are remaining and repeated drills are not needed to wage warfare.

Since I would consider their stopping to be vital, I barely think of it as a concession. There's really not much Kim can do to make it even so it's not considered a concession by those who want to paint it that way.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

I have defended myself repeatedly on here and never make stuff up about other posters. There's a constant barrage of nonsense being hurled at me here with new posters entering and not looking at anything I've written.

I am sorry you feel that way, and can only speak for myself when I say that I do read what you have written.

I do think you are wrong. Whilst the vast majority on this thread indeed have issues with Trump (and IMO any sane person should have serious issues with him) they make valid points and show the hypocrisy and lies which are a major part of the Trump admin.

That clearly makes the position of defending him, or putting forward his positives are very difficult and posters rightfully question those that come in looking to avoid talking about the negatives but insist that all positives must be acknowledged.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm off the opinion that the US should get out of SK pretty much entirely and park their subs in international waters within firing distance of Pyongyang.

Troops on the ground are only needed for an invasion. The exercises are an expensive show of force and if getting rid of them helps move things forward, then so be it. The troops are remaining and repeated drills are not needed to wage warfare.

Since I would consider their stopping to be vital, I barely think of it as a concession. There's really not much Kim can do to make it even so it's not considered a concession by those who want to paint it that way.

Then you are using a different version of the word concession. Concession is not a negative btw, we all make concessions everyday and concessions are the very core of politics. Trying to make the case that Trump made no concessions made it look like you are unwilling to view the entire situation

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm off the opinion that the US should get out of SK pretty much entirely and park their subs in international waters within firing distance of Pyongyang.

Troops on the ground are only needed for an invasion. The exercises are an expensive show of force and if getting rid of them helps move things forward, then so be it. The troops are remaining and repeated drills are not needed to wage warfare.

Since I would consider their stopping to be vital, I barely think of it as a concession. There's really not much Kim can do to make it even so it's not considered a concession by those who want to paint it that way.

Or they could withdraw all of their troops and ships to their own borders and territorial waters. Just a thought.

Phonehead

I disagree that the military exercises served no purpose. They kept NK fully aware of just how outgunned they were and a certain level of realism within the ranks of the NK leadership. That is why the Supreme leaders hated the exercises, now it's no more.

weisses

Deleted User wrote: »

The best thing the Democrats and CNN could do today would be to congratulate Trump on his achievement.

What is this achievement by Trump that needs to be congratulated ??

That they sat down ?

That they shook hands ?

Hande hoche!

weisses wrote: »

What is this achievement by Trump that needs to be congratulated ??

That they sat down ?

That they shook hands ?

One thing is the atmosphere. It feels a lot less like 2003 circa run up to the Iraq debacle.

dr.fuzzenstein

Whatever is happening in the world is happening despite Trump, not because of him.
It's like there's an office where some serious business is going down, but someone's child-care was closed for the day and they had to bring their 5 year old child with ADHD in with them.
What is happening now is that a lot of grown-ups are trying to go about their business, while this child is running around, pulling things off the table, kicking random people in the shin, screaming and generally behaving like an absolute tit.
The US economy has been doing well under Obama, Trump has so far destroyed jobs in the renewable sector (imposing trraifs on imported solar panels and leaving the Paris accord) whilst doing nothing whatsoever for coal except blowing a lot of hot air.

https://www.ft.com/content/6a5fa710-46ea-11e7-8d27-59b4dd6296b8
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/4/16848650/trump-coal-industry-2017

He also has kicked off a trade war with Europe, Canada and Mexico which will further damage the US economy.
In the long term, Trump will do massive damage to the global economy with his "edgy" and "unpredictable" policies, i.e. by behaving like a complete and utter twat, alienating trade partners and having fines and tarrifs imposed on the US in return.
He thinks his trade aprtners in the world are like his suppliers, in that he can stiff them and they will simply not fight back because they don't have the means to sue the money out of him.
So at some stage the 5 year old will have thrown over a few desks, unplugged a few computers and finally he will pull the fire alarm and then it's all over.
If they put a chimp in the White House, it would do a better job. I have seen bits of lemon peel float down the Liffey that would do a better job. And it is sad that a lot of people's IQ has seemingly fallen into single digits, because they think he's the greatest man that ever walked the Earth since the last dude walked on water.

TL:DR:
Trump will cause a recession like any Republican ever, the Democrats will get elected to fix their sh*t and will get nothing but hatred in return.
Exactly like FF and FG in Ireland.

jooksavage

The agreement a bit thin on specifics and falls waaaaay short of Washington's stated goals. No CVID of nuclear weapons - things haven't moved any further on from the Kim-Moon summit - and no formal commitment to a peace treaty (the 1953 armistice will apparently remain in place). It's impossible to say at this point how significant this summit is - the coming months and years will tell us that. China should be pleased though - it looks like their buffer is no danger of melting away anytime soon, the threat of war has been walked back and burden of keeping NK from starving will likely be distributed.

B0jangles

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Whatever is happening in the world is happening despite Trump, not because of him.
It's like there's an office where some serious business is going down, but someone's child-care was closed for the day and they had to bring their 5 year old child with ADHD in with them.
What is happening now is that a lot of grown-ups are trying to go about their business, while this child is running around, pulling things off the table, kicking random people in the shin, screaming and generally behaving like an absolute tit.
The US economy has been doing well under Obama, Trump has so far destroyed jobs in the renewable sector (imposing trraifs on imported solar panels and leaving the Paris accord) whilst doing nothing whatsoever for coal except blowing a lot of hot air.

https://www.ft.com/content/6a5fa710-46ea-11e7-8d27-59b4dd6296b8
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/4/16848650/trump-coal-industry-2017

He also has kicked off a trade war with Europe, Canada and Mexico which will further damage the US economy.
In the long term, Trump will do massive damage to the global economy with his "edgy" and "unpredictable" policies, i.e. by behaving like a complete and utter twat, alienating trade partners and having fines and tarrifs imposed on the US in return.
He thinks his trade aprtners in the world are like his suppliers, in that he can stiff them and they will simply not fight back because they don't have the means to sue the money out of him.
So at some stage the 5 year old will have thrown over a few desks, unplugged a few computers and finally he will pull the fire alarm and then it's all over.
If they put a chimp in the White House, it would do a better job. I have seen bits of lemon peel float down the Liffey that would do a better job. And it is sad that a lot of people's IQ has seemingly fallen into single digits, because they think he's the greatest man that ever walked the Earth since the last dude walked on water.

TL:DR:
Trump will cause a recession like any Republican ever, the Democrats will get elected to fix their sh*t and will get nothing but hatred in return.
Exactly like FF and FG in Ireland.

See, it's people saying stuff like this that made them elect him in the first place.


So it's really your fault, not the fault of the cabbages that voted for him.


:mad:

Phonehead

Phonehead wrote: »

I disagree that the military exercises served no purpose. They kept NK fully aware of just how outgunned they were and a certain level of realism within the ranks of the NK leadership. That is why the Supreme leaders hated the exercises, now it's no more.

An aircraft carrier achieves the same purpose though.

While the exercises may have been great at one point, they become irrelevant when nukes are involved. If sacrificing exercises gets things back on track on the peninsula, it's worth it.

weisses wrote: »

What is this achievement by Trump that needs to be congratulated ??

That they sat down ?

That they shook hands ?

I'm bored of this by now. You can bring any human achievement back down to basics.

"He kicked a ball ? Into a net ? On grass ?"


Not once have I said this achievement is specific to Trump. Any US president who sat down with Kim after a thermonuclear test was achieving something. I already stated that Bush, Obama and Hillary would have likely done the same.

Perhaps, you could highlight why Bush, Obama and Hillary would also achieved absolutely nothing by sitting down with Kim.

You think they would have gotten a better agreement? I don't. NK is a nuclear nation now.

MadYaker

Big win for Kim today. The point of their nuclear weapons programme was to get them meeting like this. They are a player on the world stage now. But this sort of thing is propaganda gold for Kim back home. As most people expected today was just a meet and greet. But who knows maybe something good will come of it.

weisses

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm bored of this by now. You can bring any human achievement back down to basics.

"He kicked a ball ? Into a net ? On grass ?"

You brought up the achievement .... You have to look at it in its context

Deleted User wrote: »

Not once have I said this achievement is specific to Trump.

Yes you did

The best thing the Democrats and CNN could do today would be to congratulate Trump on his achievement

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps, you could highlight why Bush, Obama and Hillary would also achieved absolutely nothing by sitting down with Kim.

You think they would have gotten a better agreement? I don't. NK is a nuclear nation now.

perhaps not ... They also probably wouldn't have called him little rocket man ... But its mostly whataboutery anyway

weisses

weisses wrote: »

Yes you did

You have got to be kidding me. That is just so dishonest and pathetic. It's his name and it is his achievement, just like it would have been Obama's, Hillary's or Bush's. You want me to write in legalese?


Leroy, this is the nonsense I was talking about being hurled at me, in case you doubted it. Pure and utter scutter.

Phonehead

Ah Ads, this is ridiculous. You claimed you didn't say something and then you are quoted the text where you did say it... Yet you are still the victim

weisses

Deleted User wrote: »

You have got to be kidding me. That is just so dishonest and pathetic.

Nope ... Its a direct quote from you

I asked you What is this achievement by Trump that needs to be congratulated ??

To wich you replied

Not once have I said this achievement is specific to Trump.

which contradicts your quote below right ?

The best thing the Democrats and CNN could do today would be to congratulate Trump on his achievement

To continue on what he achieved

"They have great beaches. You see that whenever they're exploding their cannons into the ocean," Trump said during a marathon press conference held after the conclusion of his historic summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore.

"I said, 'Boy, look at that view. Wouldn't that make a great condo? Instead of doing that you could have the best hotels in the world right there. Think of it from a real estate perspective, you have South Korea, you have China, and they own the land in the middle, how bad is that, right? It's great," Trump said.

You cannot make this **** up

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-muses-about-condos-on-north-koreas-great-beaches

Phonehead

Phonehead wrote: »

Ah Ads, this is ridiculous. You claimed you didn't say something and then you are quoted the text where you did say it... Yet you are still the victim

I claimed I never said Trump was special for doing it, and any president would have done it.

"The best thing the Democrats and CNN could do today would be to congratulate Trump on his achievement"

That is not saying Trump is special. It's saying Trump was the person there.

Should I really have said

"The best thing the Democrats and CNN could do today would be to congratulate the US president on their achievement"

??


That's my big mistake here is it?

weisses

weisses wrote: »

Nope ... Its a direct quote from you

I asked you What is this achievement by Trump that needs to be congratulated ??

To wich you replied



which contradicts your quote below right ?




To continue on what he achieved



You cannot make this **** up

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-muses-about-condos-on-north-koreas-great-beaches

It doesn't contradict it at all. Stop lying.

The focus here is "special".

Phonehead and weisses are on my Ignore List now since that can only be trolling. Arguing over a language I taught for seven years.

weisses

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't contradict it at all. Stop lying.

The focus here is "special".

Not lying ..Im directly quoting you

I think your focus is all over the place

Pelvis

Ads you're making no sense. Why don't you just answer the question put to you and stop playing silly games.

You say Trump should be congratulated for the achievement. Well, what is the achievement?

weisses

Deleted User wrote: »

Phonehead and weisses are on my Ignore List now since that can only be trolling. Arguing over a language I taught for seven years.

trolling

Pelvis

Pelvis wrote: »

Ads you're making no sense. Why don't you just answer the question put to you and stop playing silly games.

You say Trump should be congratulated for the achievement. Well, what is the achievement?

We're not talking about that. They're trying to say I think Trump is specifically special for doing it when I've already stated that any president who sat down was achieving something.

To answer your question, progress towards peace on the peninsula and some good future relations and more chance of the gulags etc. being removed. The same as I'd say for Bush, Obama or Clinton.

Why is this so controversial? Moon was lauded for his meeting with Kim and achieved about the same. Progress.

eagle eye

Trump certainly deserves credit for this. To the best of my knowledge there was nothing about this mentioned before he became President.

I haven't been following things stateside lately. How is the economy doing? Last I heard it was improving.

weisses

eagle eye wrote: »

Trump certainly deserves credit for this. To the best of my knowledge there was nothing about this mentioned before he became President..

It had to do with the speed NK developed their nukes ... Trump happens to be the president that has to deal with Kim because of this

eagle eye wrote: »

I haven't been following things stateside lately. How is the economy doing? Last I heard it was improving.

Its grand like ..... Improving since Obama