Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Overheal

Noel82 wrote: »

There was a study done in Arizona showing they're more likely to commit crimes.

"The crime rate among illegal immigrants in Arizona is twice that of other residents, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Friday, citing a new report based on conviction data.

The report, from the Crime Prevention Research Center, used a previously untapped set of data from Arizona that detailed criminal convictions and found that illegal immigrants between 15 and 35 are less than 3 percent of the state’s population, but nearly 8 percent of its prison population...

Undocumented immigrants also accounted for five times the rate of convictions for money laundering and kidnapping, and were three times more likely to be convicted of drive-by shootings...

“They’re more likely to be convicted of sexual assault, robbery, and driving under the influence. They’re more than twice as likely to be convicted of murder,” Mr. Sessions said in remarks prepared for a speech in Norfolk, Virginia."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/26/illegals-commit-crimes-double-rate-native-born-stu/

http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/aug/03/antonio-villaraigosa/mostly-true-undocumented-immigrants-less-likely-co/

Gonna go with established reports on this rather than this sensationalist stuff pushed by Fox and Rightwing Times just in time for an immigration policy debate.

Leroy42

Water John wrote: »

Nunes is a patsy. Really shot of any credibility.

Credibility with whom? They don't care about credibility, only to reduce the credibility of those that appear to stand in their way.

From the very start Trump has shown a disdain and vendetta against the FBI and the CIA. This was the man that claimed that the 'greatest democracy in the world'tm was rigged and yet he had crowds chanting USA, USA.

Trump has now fired the head of the FBI, the deputy of the FBI has 'resigned', called out the FBI for illegal phone tapping without any evidence and is now about to publish a memo to demonise the FBI further.

All this is clearly to reduce the credibility of any findings that Mueller ever happens to come up with.

What it seems to have escaped the likes of Nunes, and those Trump supporters lead by Fox News, is that the very apparatus that the US has used to destabilise and destroy other countries over the last 50/60 years has now been turned onto themselves.

And once released it is very hard to stop it, as the many countries affected around the world will testify to.

vetinari

Manic Moran wrote: »

Partially, but is it also possible that paedophile or not, they did not agree with the policies that they would have advocated for by their representative in Congress for the next few years? The laws enacted by your congresscritters are as valid and binding on you no matter their legal problems behind the scenes. That's not a case of annoying the opposition, that's a case of voting for someone who will advocate for policies you are more inclined to support.

After all, if the guy really was a paedophile, got charged, and had to resign, a new election could be called next year. But a law which perhaps that Democrat might be the swing vote for could be binding on you for the rest of your life.

The joys of the two-party system, I'm afraid.

I get the point but at some point who the person is has to mean something. At best, he was a thirty year old man actively trying to chat up schoolgirls in shopping malls. At worst he sexually assaulted multiple women. Personally, I couldn't vote for him if he were a Democrat.

Rjd2

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/roy-moore-leading-candidate-in-alabama-senate-race-doesnt-know-what-daca-is/article/2633200

Moore also didn't know about DACA ffs and was all over the place with health care. Genuinely don't understand how anybody could justify voting such an absolute fraud. The dude he beat to represent the republicans was a standard Christian Republican who would have voted with Trump, was competent, and was not a sexual deviant.

Anyway looking online looks like Hope Hicks needs a lawyer asap.

Overheal

Looks like Nunes transmitted a version of the notorious memo to the White House for declassification that materially differs from the version that the House Intelligence Committee voted to release.

This is pretty shocking, but sadly is not an alien practice in DC, especially on contentious legislation.

https://www.mediaite.com/online/adam-schiff-nunes-made-unapproved-material-changes-to-memo-sent-to-white-house/

https://twitter.com/repadamschiff/status/958897790469464064

recedite

Leroy42 wrote: »

You agree with Trump, who stated this. You don't have to have said it directly.

If you could show us where Trump said all illegals are rapists and drug dealers you would have a point.

Leroy42

Really, you want me to dig and post the clip that has already been posted and talked about so many times?

Are you denying that he thinks all Mexicans coming to US are rapists and that all muslims should be stopped from entering the country.

Are are you getting semantic to argue that he didn't mention all illegals only those above and that we should somehow think he sees no issues with illegals from other countries?

Christy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Really, you want me to dig and post the clip that has already been posted and talked about so many times?

Are you denying that he thinks all Mexicans coming to US are rapists and that all muslims should be stopped from entering the country.

Are are you getting semantic to argue that he didn't mention all illegals only those above and that we should somehow think he sees no issues with illegals from other countries?

Well he supposes some are good people. Which was added as an afterthought and heavily suggested the previous statements (they're rapists etc.) constitute the vast majority. So a minor correction that he does not think all of them are rapists but "supposes" a few are good people. I imagine that is their argument but it is a pretty thin one.

I wonder how it would have been received if Hillary had said that Trump supporters were deplorable (though some, maybe, are good people). I mean they lost plot a bit after she called half of them deplorables (weird for people that claim to be against PC nonsense).

Really Interested

recedite wrote: »

If you could show us where Trump said all illegals are rapists and drug dealers you would have a point.

How many do you think are good people? Is it 99% or 1% or somewhere in-between.

everlast75

Christy42 wrote: »

Well he supposes some are good people. Which was added as an afterthought and heavily suggested the previous statements (they're rapists etc.) constitute the vast majority. So a minor correction that he does not think all of them are rapists but "supposes" a few are good people. I imagine that is their argument but it is a pretty thin one.

I wonder how it would have been received if Hillary had said that Trump supporters were deplorable (though some, maybe, are good people). I mean they lost plot a bit after she called half of them deplorables (weird for people that claim to be against PC nonsense).

Its the double standard that applied to the election.

Trump says something horrific - ah well, its Trump being Trump

Hillary says something slightly controversial - she is lambasted for it.


Anyhoo - what has Hope Hicks in trouble?

Nody

everlast75 wrote: »

Anyhoo - what has Hope Hicks in trouble?

Potential obstruction of justice (she denies having said it).

Former Trump team legal spokesperson Mark Corallo had concerns that White House communications director Hope Hicks could be considering obstructing justice after a comment she reportedly made about emails between Donald Trump Jr. and Russians, according to a New York Times story.

Hicks allegedly told President Donald Trump on a conference call that the Trump Jr. emails "will never get out," and Corallo plans to share the conversation with special counsel Robert Mueller, the Times reported Wednesday night, citing three people with knowledge of his interview request.

The Times reported that sources said Corallo was concerned by what she said, and thought she was either being naive or implying that the emails could be withheld from the special counsel's team.

Hicks' lawyer denied that she ever said that in a statement to CNN.

demfad

Leroy42 wrote: »

Credibility with whom? They don't care about credibility, only to reduce the credibility of those that appear to stand in their way.

From the very start Trump has shown a disdain and vendetta against the FBI and the CIA. This was the man that claimed that the 'greatest democracy in the world'tm was rigged and yet he had crowds chanting USA, USA.

Trump has now fired the head of the FBI, the deputy of the FBI has 'resigned', called out the FBI for illegal phone tapping without any evidence and is now about to publish a memo to demonise the FBI further.

All this is clearly to reduce the credibility of any findings that Mueller ever happens to come up with.

What it seems to have escaped the likes of Nunes, and those Trump supporters lead by Fox News, is that the very apparatus that the US has used to destabilise and destroy other countries over the last 50/60 years has now been turned onto themselves.

And once released it is very hard to stop it, as the many countries affected around the world will testify to.

They realise, they understand, they are complicit.

everlast75

Nody wrote: »

Potential obstruction of justice (she denies having said it).

I accept that my knowledge of Ms. Hicks is fairly limited and most of it is from Wolff, but Bannon was quoted as saying months ago that she should lawyer up and that she will be eaten alive by Mueller!

mcmoustache

Nody wrote: »

Potential obstruction of justice (she denies having said it).

It's almost like they knew that meeting the Russians wasn't kosher.

demfad

Looks like a leak to thwart the likelihood of Trump and loyalists using the Nunes memo as an excuse to fire Rosenstein:

http://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/donald-trump-rod-rosenstein-december-meeting/index.html?sr=twCNN013118donald-trump-rod-rosenstein-december-meeting0404PMStory

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein visited the White House in December seeking President Donald Trump's help. The top Justice Department official in the Russia investigation wanted Trump's support in fighting off document demands from House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes.

But the President had other priorities ahead of a key appearance by Rosenstein on the Hill, according to sources familiar with the meeting. Trump wanted to know where the special counsel's Russia investigation was heading. And he wanted to know whether Rosenstein was "on my team."
The episode is the latest to come to light portraying a President whose inquiries sometimes cross a line that presidents traditionally have tried to avoid when dealing with the Justice Department, for which a measure of independence is key. The exchange could raise further questions about whether Trump was seeking to interfere in the investigation by special counsel Robert Mueller, who is looking into potential collusion by the Trump campaign with Russia and obstruction of justice by the White House.

Difficult to fire him now although Rosenstein should really recuse himself from overseeing Mueller now as he is clearly a witness: his testimony on this plus his testimony on his role in Comey firing.

In other news the attacks of 'extreme bias' against Trump by FBI agent Peter Strzok have hit the rocks: It turns out he was the one who drafted the Comey letter that handed the election to Trump.

Leroy42

But aren't these the e-mails that Trump Jr released himself, and had released already?

Or is the implication that there are more e-mails?

demfad

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-spy-chiefs-washington/29010324.html

Heads of all Three Russian intelligence services were in Washington last week.

The directors of Russia's three main intelligence and espionage agencies all traveled to the U.S. capital in recent days, in what observers said was a highly unusual occurrence coming at a time of heightened U.S.-Russian tensions.

Russia’s ambassador to the United States had earlier confirmed that Sergei Naryshkin, the head of the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR), was in Washington in recent days to meet with U.S. officials about terrorism and other matters........
But the presence of the two other chiefs -- Aleksandr Bortnikov, director of the Federal Security Service (FSB), and Lieutenant General Igor Korobov, chief of Russian General Staff’s Main Intelligence Directorate (GRU) -- was not previously known.

The Washington Post said on January 31 that Bortnikov and Korobov came to the U.S. capital last week, and that Bortnikov had met with CIA Director Mike Pompeo, as did Naryshkin.

It wasn’t clear whom Korobov may have met with.

The visits came also just days before President Donald Trump's administration announced new actions against Russia, in compliance with a law passed overwhelmingly by Congress last summer. But the measures taken late on January 29 by the State and Treasury departments were met with disbelief by many observers, who expected asset freezes, travel bans, and other sanctions to be imposed, none of which happened.

spacecoyote

You couldn't write this stuff:

https://www.ft.com/content/84a907f0-06a3-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5

For those that can't access the link, in a nutshell, Trump's appointee as CDC director, Brenda Fitzgerald, has had to resign over conflicts of interest.

The person hired to look after the health of the nation purchased stock in a tobacco company a month after stepping into her role, a day after touring a CDC facility researching the harmful effects of chemicals in tobacco.

PopePalpatine

Well, that's one way to "drain the swamp".

Leroy42

Has there ever been a more dysfunctional head of an organisation that Trump is as POTUS? The amount of resignations, withdrawals, scandals, errors, missteps, lies and cover ups is truly extraordinary.

It begs the question as to what rigors are the administration going to to ensure that they have the right people in the right jobs. So many of those picked by Trump to run things turn out to be either unqualified, unsuited or simply incapable.

You expect that the best minds are in the top positions and that the WH is looking to get the best people. The troubling aspect of all of this is that Trump appears not to really care about the best person, and as such it has knock on effects as to the job that that person can do and thus effects real people.

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

Has there ever been a more dysfunctional head of an organisation that Trump is as POTUS? The amount of resignations, withdrawals, scandals, errors, missteps, lies and cover ups is truly extraordinary.

It begs the question as to what rigors are the administration going to to ensure that they have the right people in the right jobs. So many of those picked by Trump to run things turn out to be either unqualified, unsuited or simply incapable.

You expect that the best minds are in the top positions and that the WH is looking to get the best people. The troubling aspect of all of this is that Trump appears not to really care about the best person, and as such it has knock on effects as to the job that that person can do and thus effects real people.

"We have the best people....."

Leroy42

everlast75 wrote: »

"We have the best people....."

And just to add, there is a worrying lack of questioning about the clear trend in the WH. Each resignation is met with a degree of glee and then forgotten about the next day.

Why isn't Trump being asked to explain why this level of dysfunction exists, why is seems incapable of getting the best people, and why is seemingly can't seem to hold onto so many. What is Trump going to do to fix this situation or is he content to simply carry on with this dysfunction and therefore impact of peoples lives.

The most extreme example is Scarramuchi. Trump was not held to account at all over that fiasco. POTUS hired a person that lasted 11 days in the job, yet feels able to tell other people if they are doing a bad job.

everlast75

Leroy42 wrote: »

And just to add, there is a worrying lack of questioning about the clear trend in the WH. Each resignation is met with a degree of glee and then forgotten about the next day.

Why isn't Trump being asked to explain why this level of dysfunction exists, why is seems incapable of getting the best people, and why is seemingly can't seem to hold onto so many. What is Trump going to do to fix this situation or is he content to simply carry on with this dysfunction and therefore impact of peoples lives.

The most extreme example is Scarramuchi. Trump was not held to account at all over that fiasco. POTUS hired a person that lasted 11 days in the job, yet feels able to tell other people if they are doing a bad job.

I think the major problem here is the contempt felt for and shown to the media. You have SHS sent out to berate the press and not answer a single question. DT doesn't do interviews (unless it's Fox) and so what is left for the media is online and printed stories of ineptitude and unless you have an interest in politics, people get jadded. I'd imagine the average guy if questioned on his view of DT would say "he's an idiot, but what can you do".

I don't admire per se their strategy (as I have morals) but i have to admit it works

demfad

Leroy42 wrote: »

Has there ever been a more dysfunctional head of an organisation that Trump is as POTUS? The amount of resignations, withdrawals, scandals, errors, missteps, lies and cover ups is truly extraordinary.

Any organisation he has been head of would look similar.

He is an authoritarian, a kleptocrat. Moving people around and palace intrigue disguises that power is held by a central few or an authoritarian.

Look at him as head of a kleptocracy and it looks less chaotic doesn't it?

It begs the question as to what rigors are the administration going to to ensure that they have the right people in the right jobs. So many of those picked by Trump to run things turn out to be either unqualified, unsuited or simply incapable.

They have the right people in the right jobs: The Council for National Policy are in key positions to discriminate against all but white middle/upper class christian males.
The Russian cohort are doing their bit: Tillerson especially is performing a cracker in decimating the State dept and killing US global soft power.

You expect that the best minds are in the top positions and that the WH is looking to get the best people. The troubling aspect of all of this is that Trump appears not to really care about the best person, and as such it has knock on effects as to the job that that person can do and thus effects real people.

You should drop any illusion that Trump cares about people beyond buying them in elections. It's not helpful to hold out hope that he has any redeeming qualities or noble intentions.

Would anyone be really surpised to suddenly get a news bulletin that he has pre-emptively struck NK just to divert from the Mueller investigation?

Christy42

everlast75 wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

Has there ever been a more dysfunctional head of an organisation that Trump is as POTUS? The amount of resignations, withdrawals, scandals, errors, missteps, lies and cover ups is truly extraordinary.

It begs the question as to what rigors are the administration going to to ensure that they have the right people in the right jobs. So many of those picked by Trump to run things turn out to be either unqualified, unsuited or simply incapable.

You expect that the best minds are in the top positions and that the WH is looking to get the best people. The troubling aspect of all of this is that Trump appears not to really care about the best person, and as such it has knock on effects as to the job that that person can do and thus effects real people.

"We have the best people....."

It simply depends on your definition of best. Here the definition of best is defined by being the most loyal to Trump (not the US or the office, the man himself).

eire4

Leroy42 wrote: »

Has there ever been a more dysfunctional head of an organisation that Trump is as POTUS? The amount of resignations, withdrawals, scandals, errors, missteps, lies and cover ups is truly extraordinary.

It begs the question as to what rigors are the administration going to to ensure that they have the right people in the right jobs. So many of those picked by Trump to run things turn out to be either unqualified, unsuited or simply incapable.

You expect that the best minds are in the top positions and that the WH is looking to get the best people. The troubling aspect of all of this is that Trump appears not to really care about the best person, and as such it has knock on effects as to the job that that person can do and thus effects real people.

I would go as far as to suggest that he does care about who is put in charge of various agencies and is systematically putting in place people who will deliberately destroy and or destabilize the agency as the above post is just yet another example. IMHO given the high number of people appointment to various agencies and government departments who are hostile to said agency or department it cannot be a coincidence and is in fact being done with deliberate intent.

Noel82

https://www.apnews.com/8821fda1e08b4416a51baa5504b33b44

"The contentious tax overhaul is beginning to deliver a change that many will welcome — bigger paychecks.

Workers are starting to see more take-home pay as employers implement the new withholding guidelines from the IRS, which dictate how much employers withhold from pay for federal taxes. Those whose checks have remained the same shouldn’t fret — employers have until Feb. 15 to make the changes.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has estimated that the new rules will mean more take-home pay for about 90 percent of American workers."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/economy-to-grow-at-5-point-4-percent-rate-in-first-quarter-atlanta-fed-tracker-shows.html

"The economy is on track to put up blockbuster growth numbers in the first quarter, according to the latest forecast from the Atlanta Fed.

GDP is expected to surge 5.4 percent to start 2018, the central bank branch estimated in its latest rolling look at how the economy is progressing.

If the forecast holds, it would be the best quarter since the Great Recession ended in 2009. The previous highest was third quarter of 2014, which hit 5.2 percent."

https://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/ups-boosts-investments-by-12-billion-on-favorable-tax-law-impact-20180201-00971

ATLANTA, Feb. 01, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- UPS today announced more than $12 billion in investments to expand the company's Smart Logistics Network, significantly increase pension funding, and position the company to further enhance shareowner value.

"This $12 billion investment program is an outgrowth of the opportunity for tax savings created by the Tax and Jobs Act," said David Abney, UPS Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. "We will increase network investments and accelerate pension funding to strengthen the company for the long term, so that we maximize the benefit to our global customers, employees and shareowners."

everlast75

Noel82 wrote: »

https://www.apnews.com/8821fda1e08b4416a51baa5504b33b44

"The contentious tax overhaul is beginning to deliver a change that many will welcome — bigger paychecks.

Workers are starting to see more take-home pay as employers implement the new withholding guidelines from the IRS, which dictate how much employers withhold from pay for federal taxes. Those whose checks have remained the same shouldn’t fret — employers have until Feb. 15 to make the changes.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has estimated that the new rules will mean more take-home pay for about 90 percent of American workers."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/01/economy-to-grow-at-5-point-4-percent-rate-in-first-quarter-atlanta-fed-tracker-shows.html

"The economy is on track to put up blockbuster growth numbers in the first quarter, according to the latest forecast from the Atlanta Fed.

GDP is expected to surge 5.4 percent to start 2018, the central bank branch estimated in its latest rolling look at how the economy is progressing.

If the forecast holds, it would be the best quarter since the Great Recession ended in 2009. The previous highest was third quarter of 2014, which hit 5.2 percent."

https://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/ups-boosts-investments-by-12-billion-on-favorable-tax-law-impact-20180201-00971

ATLANTA, Feb. 01, 2018 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- UPS today announced more than $12 billion in investments to expand the company's Smart Logistics Network, significantly increase pension funding, and position the company to further enhance shareowner value.

"This $12 billion investment program is an outgrowth of the opportunity for tax savings created by the Tax and Jobs Act," said David Abney, UPS Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. "We will increase network investments and accelerate pension funding to strengthen the company for the long term, so that we maximize the benefit to our global customers, employees and shareowners."

Man who devised plan says it will work shocker!

Every independent think tank says this is BS ecomics

Nody

everlast75 wrote: »

Man who devised plan says it will work shocker!

Every independent think tank says this is BS ecomics

It only has to last until next president election (there's a reason those timings are there in the first place after all). If he gets elected for another 4 years they can expand on it with new token payments to the masses; if not the Democrats will take the blame for not extending the tax cuts (even if it's Republican's fault for not balancing the budget). Voters are not exactly the most bright or informed group (no matter the country) which is why it works over and over again.

Noel82

everlast75 wrote: »

Every independent think tank says this is BS ecomics

Really? Bit of an overstatement me thinks

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/11/28/oecd-donald-trumps-win-so-yuge-itll-grow-the-global-economy/#4952c6654ae4