Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Blowfish

Leroy42 wrote: »

The notion that religion, and at the heart of it morals and a christian belief system, is in any way a driver of how these people act or want those representing them to act is complete nonsense.

I absolutely agree that it's not their own morals or beliefs that could drive this as a huge number of them don't work by inherent beliefs or morals, they work by authority and authoritative figures. It's been well studied that Conservative voters have been shown to value and listen to authority figures much more than 'liberal' voters.

As such, I'm not saying in this case that it's their own underlying belief or morals that could cause a split with Trump as they are way beyond that. I'm more saying that, for what I think is the first time this presidency, they have authority figures in the form their Pastors/Church who are directly contradicting their other primary authority figure.

If Trump loses the support of the authorities in the churches, he's in deep, deep trouble.

listermint

Wanderer78 wrote: »

'free', it kinna has a very different meaning in reality!

Granted, but didnt want to bog down in specifics. Its not $50,000 per year tbf.


But i count myself and as do my friends count themselves as extremely privileged to grow up on this island. lottery of life and all that.

So i always reflect on that when i dish out my musings on people less fortunate than me.

Wanderer78

listermint wrote: »

Granted, but didnt want to bog down in specifics. Its not $50,000 per year tbf.


But i count myself and as do my friends count themselves as extremely privileged to grow up on this island. lottery of life and all that.

So i always reflect on that when i dish out my musings on people less fortunate than me.

i will agree with you on that, with americas student debt topping 1.5 trillion, our educational system is more freer than theirs, but it isnt exactly free when all things are considered

ELM327

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Could you explain what you mean by "Bearded leftism"? Could you identify any examples who fall under your definition?

I think your feigned ignorance speaks volumes.

listermint wrote: »

Bearded... Leftism, Is that a pocket response you learned from the Journal ?

1st. You are entirely Privileged, you were born into a country that offers up some of the best starts in life on earth. You benefited from Free Education right up to 3rd level, you benefit from our Social services (despite im sure you believing that you dont actually take any of them you do) everyone does.
You benefited from an economical , social and meteorological climate that is stable and does not suffer from extremes.

To claim that you are not privileged is beyond laughable.


And ive no doubt you worked hard to do or be whatever you are today, but dont dare believe that the structures in place to make sure you got there and bascially helped you along the way were not out of those that went before us all.


It seems some peoples bubbles stop at their front gate and this nonsense is becoming more prolific in the Social Media style me feiner last decade.

I did not benefit from free education.
Primary schools have "voluntary" contributions of a few hundred per year.
I attended a private secondary school having earned a 100% bursary for academic prowess. So no cost to the state there at all.

3rd level is not free, you pay between 80-100% of most normal courses through the "registration fees" that regularly top 3-4k.



The rest of your post is a dangerous equilibrium comprised of bunkum, socialism, and SJW. To which any response that I should proffer would likely be cannibalised with risible tripe along the lines of "WHITE PRIVILEGE" "THINK OF DE BABBIES" etc. So I shall save us both the bother.


I can but be thankful that our little land of milk and honey has not been defiled like central and southern Europe has. Although the Nordics (particularly Sweden) are now also showing the issues associated with free and simple immigration.


We should be aligning with past generations and, to borrow a leaf from a well known leader's book of quotable notables, "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Instead we open our doors, and share our meagre wealth with those who plot to kill us, wreck our societal model, rape our women, brainwash our children, etc.

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Granted, but didnt want to bog down in specifics. Its not $50,000 per year tbf.


But i count myself and as do my friends count themselves as extremely privileged to grow up on this island. lottery of life and all that.

So i always reflect on that when i dish out my musings on people less fortunate than me.

$50k
No standard second level institute in Ireland or any western nation charges that for second level education.

VinLieger

ELM327 wrote: »

$50k
No standard second level institute in Ireland or any western nation charges that for second level education.

Non EU citizens are charged anywhere from 18k - 25k for UCD, that is the actual cost of a course removing all EU and Irish government subsidies that you don't pay. Thinking the 3-4k registration fee you paid is anywhere close to being 100% of the actual cost of a course is delusional.


Also attending private secondary education regardless of how it was paid for does indeed make you very damned privileged.

Captain Obvious

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Our Direct Provision system could be amended and improved, there's no doubt about that. But we're not impinging upon basic human rights like the US are here.

Our direct provision system would be fine if people were not stuck in it for so long.

ELM327 wrote: »

I did not benefit from free education.
Primary schools have "voluntary" contributions of a few hundred per year.
I attended a private secondary school having earned a 100% bursary for academic prowess. So no cost to the state there at all.

3rd level is not free, you pay between 80-100% of most normal courses through the "registration fees" that regularly top 3-4k.

Ignorance is the word alright. Seems you don't know how much of your education was provided by the taxpayer.

ELM327

VinLieger wrote: »

Non EU citizens are charged anywhere from 18k - 25k for UCD, that is the actual cost of a course removing all EU and Irish government subsidies that you don't pay. Thinking the 3-4k registration fee you paid is anywhere close to being 100% of the actual cost of a course is delusional.

I didn't know UCD offered second level education?

VinLieger wrote: »

Also attending private secondary education regardless of how it was paid for does indeed make you very damned privileged.

Privileged to be academically gifted.
Nothing to do with location or any other privilege you care to throw at it.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

I think your feigned ignorance speaks volumes.






I did not benefit from free education.
Primary schools have "voluntary" contributions of a few hundred per year.
I attended a private secondary school having earned a 100% bursary for academic prowess. So no cost to the state there at all.

3rd level is not free, you pay between 80-100% of most normal courses through the "registration fees" that regularly top 3-4k.



The rest of your post is a dangerous equilibrium comprised of bunkum, socialism, and SJW. To which any response that I should proffer would likely be cannibalised with risible tripe along the lines of "WHITE PRIVILEGE" "THINK OF DE BABBIES" etc. So I shall save us both the bother.


I can but be thankful that our little land of milk and honey has not been defiled like central and southern Europe has. Although the Nordics (particularly Sweden) are now also showing the issues associated with free and simple immigration.


We should be aligning with past generations and, to borrow a leaf from a well known leader's book of quotable notables, "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."
Instead we open our doors, and share our meagre wealth with those who plot to kill us, wreck our societal model, rape our women, brainwash our children, etc.

I have with no doubt that you would not have the standard of living you enjoy today perhaps not even the internet should you have lotteried your life into a family in Guam , Peru, Syria.

But you will never admit how privileged you are, such is the nature of those that cant see what is right in front of them.

Anyway ive enough of pointing out the obvious to those that choose not to see.

Way off topic here, Trump is still an idiot nearly 2 years later and his policies reflect everything that is dirty about Modern Society. They encompass it and they give license to those people to come out from rocks that agree with them.


Hopefully we learn as a species someday, I'll be long gone by then.

ELM327

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Our direct provision system would be fine if people were not stuck in it for so long.

Our direct provision system is much better than the current US system.
There's a need for balance between making it too harsh and making it too cushy. And I think we get this right in Ireland.

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Ignorance is the word alright. Seems you don't know how much of your education was provided by the taxpayer.

Perhaps you are not aware that the vast majority was not funded by the taxpayer.
And... for the minor part that was... it is repaid many times over at this stage anyway.
Not that either of those are related to the issue at hand, but you know, whatever.

VinLieger

ELM327 wrote: »

I didn't know UCD offered second level education?

Privileged to be academically gifted.
Nothing to do with location or any other privilege you care to throw at it.

The 50k was quite obviously in reference to the average annual 3rd level fees of US colleges you were the one who bizarrely seems to think it was referencing public high school school fees in the US.


Privileged to have the option to attend, it has everything to do with location.

Water John

ELM, your'e sort of losing, the run of yourself , there.
For example, the fee in Ireland, for third level, isn't remotely near, its cost.

The paradox is, if DT was totally successful in closing the border and expelling all undocumented the American economy would be quite negatively affected.

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

I have with no doubt that you would not have the standard of living you enjoy today perhaps not even the internet should you have lotteried your life into a family in Guam , Peru, Syria.

But you will never admit how privileged you are, such is the nature of those that cant see what is right in front of them.

Anyway ive enough of pointing out the obvious to those that choose not to see.

Way off topic here, Trump is still an idiot nearly 2 years later and his policies reflect everything that is dirty about Modern Society. They encompass it and they give license to those people to come out from rocks that agree with them.


Hopefully we learn as a species someday, I'll be long gone by then.

Trump is the most powerful man on the planet.
No one "lucks in" to getting into the position of ruler of the free world.


Whatever you may dislike about the man, you cannot doubt his intelligence.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

Trump is the most powerful man on the planet.
No one "lucks in" to getting into the position of ruler of the free world.


Whatever you may dislike about the man, you cannot doubt his intelligence.

Its quite clear to be now that you were a member of the UCD comedic society. As no one that academically gifted or graduated from UCD would believe such a claim.


Top drawer though, you nearly had me.

ELM327

Water John wrote: »

ELM, your'e sort of losing, the run of yourself , there.
For example, the fee for third level, isn't remotely near, its cost.

The paradox is, if DT was totally successful in closing the border and expelling all undocumented the American economy would be quite negatively affected.

Im', not losing, the' run of, myself, anywhere
Trump is a smart politician. He's playing to his audience and couldn't give a crap about the rest.


I am optimistic that should he choose to run in 2020 that he will be re-elected. And that is his aim.

Water John

Don't doubt his intelligence, at all. Know well, the level it's at, esp his, emotional intelligence.
Playing to his audience? Problem for him is, 2 out of 3 aren't in his audience anymore. Virtually everyone out side the GOP and nearly half of GOP voters disagree with him. In political terms, that's disaster.

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Its quite clear to be now that you were a member of the UCD comedic society. As no one that academically gifted or graduated from UCD would believe such a claim.


Top drawer though, you nearly had me.

I have not attended UCD, nor any other Dublin based educational facility. At any stage. (Barring CTYI as a child, but that's not general education)

ELM327

Water John wrote: »

Don't doubt his intelligence, at all. Know well, the level it's at, esp his, emotional intelligence.

Emotional. Intelligence ~ Is, oVERrated`!¬¬ anyway./


(FYI the superfluous punctuation marks are really unnecessary)

Water John

Cripes, iv'e angered another grammatic overlord.

jooksavage

The solipsism is strong with anyone who can argue with a straight face that growing up in a first world country with all its attendant benefits isn't a privilege. We're living through an unprecedented period of peace in a western democracy. By any historical and geo-political standards we're the trust fund douchebags who don't know how good we have it.

pixelburp

ELM327 wrote: »

Trump is the most powerful man on the planet.
No one "lucks in" to getting into the position of ruler of the free world.


Whatever you may dislike about the man, you cannot doubt his intelligence.

When your opponent basically gives you an open goal by calling your voting base "a basket of deplorables" - a base that you yourself had already stoked into an anti-Establishment frenzy - then yes, luck had a big part in Trumps campaign. A campaign that never bothered writing a Transition plan either, and necessitated that farcical horse-trading in Trump Tower around Christmas '17. Since then he has shown no attempt to reach across to the rest of America that doesn't constitute his base.

Trump inherited a great deal of his wealth, and many business ideas by him have fallen flat on their face; be it Trump Steaks, Trump Airlines, Trump Multimedia, Trump Magazone, his attempt at starting a rival to the NFL, the list goes on. Honestly? No I question Trump's business acumen and had he not the solid, reliable Manhattan real-estate as backup, it's entirely debatable whether he'd still be in a position of wealth today. He's the quintessential relic of old-world business.

On a side note: by your logic, would you consider George W. Bush an intelligent man? By your thinking US Presidents are intelligent by dint of their success.

Billy Mays

ELM327 wrote: »

Im', not losing, the' run of, myself, anywhere
Trump is a smart politician. He's playing to his audience and couldn't give a crap about the rest.


I am optimistic that should he choose to run in 2020 that he will be re-elected. And that is his aim.

Spot on


Except as president he's actually expected to give a crap about the rest and not just the people like you who support him

ELM327

pixelburp wrote: »

When your opponent basically gives you an open goal by calling your voting base "a basket of deplorables" - a base that you yourself had already stoked into an anti-Establishment frenzy - then yes, luck had a big part in Trumps campaign. A campaign that never bothered writing a Transition plan either, and necessitated that farcical horse-trading in Trump Tower around Christmas '17. Since then he has shown no attempt to reach across to the rest of America that doesn't constitute his base.

Trump inherited a great deal of his wealth, and many business ideas by him have fallen flat on their face; be it Trump Steaks, Trump Airlines, Trump Multimedia, Trump Magazone, his attempt at starting a rival to the NFL, the list goes on. Honestly? No I question Trump's business acumen and had he not the solid, reliable Manhattan real-estate as backup, it's entirely debatable whether he'd still be in a position of wealth today. He's the quintessential relic of old-world business.

On a side note: by your logic, would you consider George W. Bush an intelligent man? By your thinking US Presidents are intelligent by dint of their success.

Trump was winning the election before that in the polls.
But I do agree, the deplorables comment was one of the things that turned the tide to a Trump victory.

Billy Mays wrote: »

Spot on


Except as president he's actually expected to give a crap about the rest and not just the people like you who support him

Well he isnt. There's no metric that measures that.

The only metric is re-election in 2020.


And possibly a nobel peace prize if the deal in N Korea comes through.
If Mr Hussein Obama was in the running for one, DT must be a dead cert for sure.

Water John

I agree, President Obama (note) should not have gotten the Nobel Prize.

everlast75

ELM327 wrote: »

If Mr Hussein Obama was in the running for one, DT must be a dead cert for sure.

Ah right.

Now I see you!

It took a couple of posts, but there it is.

Trent Houseboat

His child concentration camp policy is sure to win him a Nobel Prize.

If he starts grinding their bones to make his big mac buns he might get beatified.

20Cent

Was wondering why people were making a big deal about his seperate but equal comment looked it up.


Separate but equal was a legal doctrine in United States constitutional law according to which racial segregation did not violate the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, adopted



Ffs.

wes

The support for the concentration camps for children amongst republicans is really something else. The only word I can use to describe Trump and his ilk is evil. Its a a word I find I have to use to describe what is going on in the world more and more these days, but there really is nothing else that fits.

The republican party has fully embraced white supremacy at this point, and there can be no doubt that what motivates support for Trump is nothing but racism at this point, that or a level of delusion that I would not think possible.

Hurrache

20Cent wrote: »

Was wondering why people were making a big deal about his seperate but equal comment looked it up.


Separate but equal was a legal doctrine in United States constitutional law according to which racial segregation did not violate the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, adopted


Ffs.

Cheers, I was wondering what the connection was myself.

eagle eye

Just on Trump's intelligence.

A number of years ago, maybe 10 or 12 he was on the WWE as it is known these days. He started out as a heel(bad guy) and then turned into the enemy of the owner Vince McMahon who was a heel which made him a great guy. I heard about it and became intrigued as to why Trump was doing this. It ended up being billed the battle of the billionaires. He was getting to stroke his ego for sure with this but I felt there had to be something more to it.

During the election I wondered to myself if this was a long running grand plan. I believe it was because a lot of the electorate he was appealing to in the election would be similar types to the adults who attend WWE events. They are not very smart and a lot of them are what I'd call hicks.

He learned how to appeal to them while performing an act on WWE. It's funny and it's also very smart.