Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

Really Interested

Noel82 wrote: »

Really? Bit of an overstatement me thinks

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/11/28/oecd-donald-trumps-win-so-yuge-itll-grow-the-global-economy/#4952c6654ae4

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-11-28/u-s-tax-cuts-in-2018-would-give-gdp-temporary-boost-oecd-says

“U.S. tax cuts would give economic growth a temporary boost next year by stimulating business investment and consumer spending, before slowing employment gains drag down the pace of expansion in 2019, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said.”

So two reports of the same forecasting body say such different things. In reality it will be at least this time next year before anyone can say if it worked or not.

weisses

Noel82 wrote: »

Really? Bit of an overstatement me thinks

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/11/28/oecd-donald-trumps-win-so-yuge-itll-grow-the-global-economy/#4952c6654ae4

From your article

Now, I find myself not really believing these figures. On the grounds that I'm not all that keen on this form of macroeconomics in the first place and don't think it all that important even where it's right.

mcmoustache

Noel82 wrote: »

Deleted post.

Indeed.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/01/lawyers-for-rick-gates-withdraw-from-russia-case-383422


http://uk.businessinsider.com/fbi-director-will-publicly-dispute-the-nunes-memo-2018-2?r=US&IR=T


https://www.axios.com/rising-white-house-fear-nunes-memo-is-a-dud-1517518110-483bac89-a164-4aa9-8841-97f6d3329005.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twsocialshare&utm_campaign=organic

rossie1977

2017 saw the US add 2.06 million new jobs, that would be the least amount since 2010.

GDP growth in 2017 was 2.3%, ahead of 2016 (1.5%) but below 2015 (2.9%) and 2014 (2.6%). The IMF has the US down for 2.7% GDP growth in 2018 and 2.5% in 2019 so miles away from the 5%+ Mnuchin is predicting.

listermint

Noel82 wrote: »

Really? Bit of an overstatement me thinks

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/11/28/oecd-donald-trumps-win-so-yuge-itll-grow-the-global-economy/#4952c6654ae4

Hey Noel, you are aware the majority of company's are giving once of bonuses with some of the tax, not salary increases. Some of them are even giving stock options which are only divested over years.

This ludicrous notion that it's lifting all boats is nothing more than speak. Something which you've clearly fallen for but I won't let that pass here.

These company's will be back to normal next year retaining the majority of any tax breaks and perhaps not even making this once off bonus permanent


Transparency

Wompa1

listermint wrote: »

Hey Noel, you are aware the majority of company's are giving once of bonuses with some of the tax, not salary increases. Some of them are even giving stock options which are only divested over years.

This ludicrous notion that it's lifting all boats is nothing more than speak. Something which you've clearly fallen for but I won't let that pass here.

These company's will be back to normal next year retaining the majority of any tax breaks and perhaps not even making this once off bonus permanent


Transparency

Also, in cases, the bonuses in question are only being paid to employees of 20+ years. Plays nicely to a certain age group, the one that helped get him elected I guess. Though, even then the average American has spent less than 5 years on average in their current job.

everlast75

I'm listening to Slow Burn podcast at the moment about Nixon and the controversies.

What is striking is the similarities between Trump and Nixon (who Trump is on the record as admiring.

One thing that struck me was that the "ordinary blue collar worker" was sick and tired of the testimony and believed "the liberal press was out to get him" (sound familiar?)

Anyhoo, a journalist put together a list of Handy Excuses for Nixon Backers. I've posted a link below. Want to see how many you think are used by DT supporters today?

https://www.snopes.com/handy-excuses-nixon-backers/

Wanderer78

everlast75 wrote:

What is striking is the similarities between Trump and Nixon (who Trump is on the record as admiring.

Recently seen the film 'the post', worth a watch, explains the background of Watergate very well

jooksavage

everlast75 wrote: »

I'm listening to Slow Burn podcast at the moment about Nixon and the controversies.

What is striking is the similarities between Trump and Nixon (who Trump is on the record as admiring.

One thing that struck me was that the "ordinary blue collar worker" was sick and tired of the testimony and believed "the liberal press was out to get him" (sound familiar?)

Anyhoo, a journalist put together a list of Handy Excuses for Nixon Backers. I've posted a link below. Want to see how many you think are used by DT supporters today?

https://www.snopes.com/handy-excuses-nixon-backers/

Thanks for the link - I hadn't seen that stuff before. The "handy excuses" have eerie modern parallels.

Overheal

So how many Americans do you suppose have seen a bonus or a raise or a direct benefit from the tax bill?

2 percent.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-poll/few-u-s-adults-report-bonuses-raises-from-republican-tax-law-idUSKBN1FI16Q

Professor Moriarty

Overheal wrote: »

So how many Americans do you suppose have seen a bonus or a raise or a direct benefit from the tax bill?

2 percent.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-poll/few-u-s-adults-report-bonuses-raises-from-republican-tax-law-idUSKBN1FI16Q

I wonder how many of those are ordinary Joe Soaps. Surely the wealthy wouldn't be benefitting from one of The Donald's tax wheezes? The Donald's tax reliefs lies appear not to be impacting on voters as intended. From the article:

But the Reuters/Ipsos online poll of 5,254 adults done Jan. 12 to 23 offers insights into public perceptions of the law, which is expected to shape the 2018 midterm elections when all 435 House of Representatives seats and a third of 100 Senate seats will be up for grabs.

About 58 percent of U.S. adults surveyed said that large U.S. corporations or wealthy Americans stand to benefit most from the tax legislation. Just 13 percent said the middle class will benefit the most, the poll showed.

Leroy42

Taking Walmart as an example, as it much touted about increasing its minimum wage and giving bonus/maternity etc.

Based on some reports have I have https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/11/the-new-tax-bill-could-mean-even-lower-prices-at-walmart.html

the total cost of these new rates will be around $700 in a year.

But the savings in tax from the new tax rates is estimated at $2bn!

So yes people are getting wage increases, but a far more effective way would have been to pass a law increasing minimum wage, reduce personal taxes at a higher rate than they did so as to move the benefits from corporations to individuals.

Itssoeasy

Trump has approved the release of the nunes memo and says " a lot of people should be ashamed of themselves." That rich coming from trump.

recedite

Overheal wrote: »

So how many Americans do you suppose have seen a bonus or a raise or a direct benefit from the tax bill?

2 percent.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-poll/few-u-s-adults-report-bonuses-raises-from-republican-tax-law-idUSKBN1FI16Q

There is one key point in that article;

The full impact of the law will not be known for some time. Businesses’ and individuals’ 2017 tax returns will not be directly affected. Returns for 2018, when the law takes effect, will not be filed until 2019.

All the rest of it is fake news.

Water John

So Reuters, is now a source of fake news!!!
It's a survey of how people feel and think. That's legitimate. At the start they fully acknowledge the actual full impact will not come through, for a year or two.

Don't discredit something, in the hope that other posters will then not take the time to read the actual article. Maybe, you didn't either.

Maybe they should have got Nunes to write the story, to your satisfaction.

ancapailldorcha

recedite wrote: »

All the rest of it is fake news.

No more of this nonsense. You're well aware that dismissing sources simply because you don't like them isn't on here.

recedite

Water John wrote: »

At the start they fully acknowledge the actual full impact will not come through, for a year or two.

Yes, so they know in advance that people will not be able to report any direct benefit.
Yet they go ahead and ask the question, then report the results as if it was a legitimate survey about the beneficial result of Trumps tax cuts, if any.
That is a "fake news" report.

mcmoustache

recedite wrote: »

There is one key point in that article;

All the rest of it is fake news.

The phrase "Fake News" has been used so often to describe things that are true but inconvenient to Trump that it has lost all meaning outside of alt-right echo chambers.

Water John

Sampling and studying peoples perception is a quite a legitimate action. Believe me, that is what political parties are always doing.
Really odd, dismissing it.

Really Interested

recedite wrote: »

Yes, so they know in advance that people will not be able to report any direct benefit.
Yet they go ahead and ask the question, then report the results as if it was a legitimate survey about the beneficial result of Trumps tax cuts, if any.
That is a "fake news" report.

How can it be fake news if the report says “The full impact of the law will not be known for some time. Businesses’ and individuals’ 2017 tax returns will not be directly affected. Returns for 2018, when the law takes effect, will not be filed until 2019.”

You really don’t understand the meaning of the word fake. It is clear that it will be at least a year or two before anyone can say if the reform is good or bad. Until then it is the law and if it works out will be good news for GOP if on the other hand it goes south then whatch the GOP blame everyone else and call it fake news.

Leroy42

recedite wrote: »

Yes, so they know in advance that people will not be able to report any direct benefit.
Yet they go ahead and ask the question, then report the results as if it was a legitimate survey about the beneficial result of Trumps tax cuts, if any.
That is a "fake news" report.

So using that logic, then all of Trumps declarations that his tax plan is having any effect is also 'fake news'.

So anything we are seeing in terms of bonus etc are down to other factors not the tax plan, most likely the effects of continued growth set in train by Obama

Water John

Nunes memo out and Paul Ryan says Democratic memo should also be released. Looks like Trump hints he will fire Rozenstien.

eire4

Leroy42 wrote: »

So using that logic, then all of Trumps declarations that his tax plan is having any effect is also 'fake news'.

So anything we are seeing in terms of bonus etc are down to other factors not the tax plan, most likely the effects of continued growth set in train by Obama

One example along those lines is Apple:

“Apple has just announced it plans to invest a total of $350 billion in America, and hire another 20,000 workers.”
— Donald Trump on Tuesday, Jan, 30, 2018 in the 2018 State of the Union address

This is a lie and Republicans know it. Apple never said they plan to invest $350 what they said was:

“Combining new investments and Apple’s current pace of spending with domestic suppliers and manufacturers — an estimated $55 billion for 2018 — Apple’s direct contribution to the U.S. economy will be more than $350 billion over the next five years,”

PopePalpatine

Leroy42 wrote: »

So using that logic, then all of Trumps declarations that his tax plan is having any effect is also 'fake news'.

So anything we are seeing in terms of bonus etc are down to other factors not the tax plan, most likely the effects of continued growth set in train by Obama

B-b-but The Donald can't lie! Only die Lügenpresse the lying MSM do that when they're bullying the Most Alpha President Ever!

Thargor

Im honestly struggling to see anything in this memo tbh even if you ignore the fact it was written by republicans, wheres the scandal?

ricero

The Donald has played a blinder

Water John

They are simply trying to reach as far as the leadership of the FBI, to force them to resign.
This is to allow Trump reset the FBI and freeze the Mueller inquiry.

Thargor

Yeah but you'd expect it to have some kind of meat on it if thats the strategy, they were literally screaming "Release the Memo" at the State of the Union the other night, there is no new information so why the scandal?

aloyisious

The anger I am feeling towards the Republican Party for it's cowed acceprance of President Trump's out and out lying at face value is huge. Their complete denial of the origin of the document that Nunes memo is based on is purely political, as is their accusation that the Democrats are playing political games with the memo. Come on, Republican Party, stop the lying and give the real world a break. Don Trump is succeeding in destroying the US from within with the active blessing and co-operation of the Republican Party and that's the real story.................

Leroy42

Water John wrote: »

They are simply trying to reach as far as the leadership of the FBI, to force them to resign.
This is to allow Trump reset the FBI and freeze the Mueller inquiry.

The idea is not what is in the memo, the idea is to create a perception that there is something rotten in the FBI.

It seems most people will only see the twitter feed and/or headlines. The details are not important