Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

pitifulgod

ricero wrote: »

The Donald has played a blinder

A significant aspect that damages credibility of report is that they don't actually give what evidence was used to get the FISA warrants, it's a claim with no backing. Carter Page for example has a relationship that goes back years including associations with Russian spies.

pitifulgod

pitifulgod wrote: »

A significant aspect that damages credibility of report is that they don't actually give what evidence was used to get the FISA warrants, it's a claim with no backing. Carter Page for example has a relationship that goes back years including associations with Russian spies.

Facts don't matter to trump or his supporters.

ancapailldorcha

ricero wrote: »

The Donald has played a blinder

Deleted User wrote: »

Facts don't matter to trump or his supporters.

Enough of the one liners please.

eire4

Leroy42 wrote: »

The idea is not what is in the memo, the idea is to create a perception that there is something rotten in the FBI.

It seems most people will only see the twitter feed and/or headlines. The details are not important

No question that is what they are hoping will be the effect. Will it? Only time will tell. The extremist support base of the Republican party will lap it up like its honey and their Russia deniers/apologists on TV will tout it as proof the FBI is pro Democrats when the fact is Mueller, Wray, Boyd etc are in fact Republicans. The question is will it gain any traction outside the extremist core that is the Republicans base.

What strikes me most about what is happening now is this whole memo situation is just the latest in what is a very concerted and escalating effort to smear the Russia investigation which makes me think that the Republicans are getting increasingly worried about what the Russia investigation is going to reveal and that they fear the investigation is getting close to some really damning conclusions.

aloyisious

eire4 wrote: »

No question that is what they are hoping will be the effect. Will it? Only time will tell. The extremist support base of the Republican party will lap it up like its honey and their Russia deniers/apologists on TV will tout it as proof the FBI is pro Democrats when the fact is Mueller, Wray, Boyd etc are in fact Republicans. The question is will it gain any traction outside the extremist core that is the Republicans base.

What strikes me most about what is happening now is this whole memo situation is just the latest in what is a very concerted and escalating effort to smear the Russia investigation which makes me think that the Republicans are getting increasingly worried about what the Russia investigation is going to reveal and that they fear the investigation is getting close to some really damning conclusions.

I can only hope that the thinkers will carry the day at the next elections, not the sycophants, so the US can regain some aspect of relevance to the free world.

Water John

In essence, we have the GOP defending Carter Page, FFS.

rossie1977

Thargor wrote: »

Im honestly struggling to see anything in this memo tbh even if you ignore the fact it was written by republicans, wheres the scandal?

Trump supporters have been trying to spin it like the FBI investigation into Trump only began because of Obama and Clinton created and financed the Steele dossier.

The memo itself clearly states that it was information on Papadopoulos that started the investigation...nothing about Papadopoulos was discussed in the Steele dossier.

BoJack Horseman

rossie1977 wrote: »

The memo itself clearly states that it was information on Papadopoulos that started the investigation[/IMG]

Those are 2 separate investigations.

The Page investigation is what the wiretaps were sought for.

Itssoeasy

The Dow jones is down 600 points as of a couple of seconds ago. I thought the stoke market was doing well. It's the worst week in 2 years apparently.

mcmoustache

ricero wrote: »

The Donald has played a blinder

In what way? I could just pop in and say "That was a blinder by Italy last night" but it would be nonsense.

The memo is a dud outside of the_donald. So any chance you could explain how this was played well?

aloyisious

For sheer neck, you've got to hand it to Don with his comments about the release and people should be shamed because of the memo contents. Taking the isssue of the memo a stage further, the W/H has apparently stated tonight tht it is willing to work with the Dems on the release of that party's memo.

Water John

I think there is a widespread kick back at the two reports not being released at the same time. This breaks long standing bispartisan approach.
The focus is on this and not on the contents as GOP presumed.
The Dems may find a lot of delay on its redaction.

The GOP are ignoring that Trump is using this memo to get to Mueller.

alchemist33

I opted out of Trump news for a week and have come back in now to what looks like a bizarre mountain out of a molehill. What amounts to a Republican opinion piece seems to have taken on the gravitas of the word of god, with a big old hoohah about declassification lending it credibility far beyond its content. Surely the American public (well, a majority anyway) can see this is a pantomime instigated by POTUS to muddy the waters even more?

It's a memo, FFS, a memo -- one step up from a post-it note -- not a forensic analysis.

Water John

Well, it's memos Trump is clutching at, and the GOP are feeding him.

eire4

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The Dow jones is down 600 points as of a couple of seconds ago. I thought the stoke market was doing well. It's the worst week in 2 years apparently.

It has been roaring along for the most part for a while but yes it is taking a real hammering today no question about that. It ended today down 666 points hmmm scary number maybe. Seriously though the 6th worst points decline ever for the dow jones.

eire4

aloyisious wrote: »

I can only hope that the thinkers will carry the day at the next elections, not the sycophants, so the US can regain some aspect of relevance to the free world.

I hope your right but I would not get too optimistic. Because of the gerrymandered districts and voter suppression the Democrats may well have a much harder time next November then many think. Plus also there is the fact that the Democratic party has shown no interest in actually appealing to the roughly 50% of Americans who do not bother to vote at all. They are still very much corporate controlled overall themselves so they really don't offer a very appealing alternative more just a lesser evil alternative to the Republicans.

aloyisious

eire4 wrote: »

I hope your right but I would not get too optimistic. Because of the gerrymandered districts and voter suppression the Democrats may well have a much harder time next November then many think. Plus also there is the fact that the Democratic party has shown no interest in actually appealing to the roughly 50% of Americans who do not bother to vote at all. They are still very much corporate controlled overall themselves so they really don't offer a very appealing alternative more just a lesser evil alternative to the Republicans.

Don't worry, I'm not optimistic. I want the present occupant of the oval office put where he deserves to be put, on retirement on a golf course without federal funding and without any friends, just cronies who'll bleed him dry.

Overheal

eire4 wrote: »

I hope your right but I would not get too optimistic. Because of the gerrymandered districts and voter suppression the Democrats may well have a much harder time next November then many think. Plus also there is the fact that the Democratic party has shown no interest in actually appealing to the roughly 50% of Americans who do not bother to vote at all. They are still very much corporate controlled overall themselves so they really don't offer a very appealing alternative more just a lesser evil alternative to the Republicans.

And it works. Koch et all will spend a few hundred million to peddle ads that amount to "yeah well the Democrats are broken too" which makes the average person think there's moot value in flipping seats and going out to vote.

Nody

Water John wrote: »

The GOP are ignoring that Trump is using this memo to get to Mueller.

But what will be interesting to see is what Christopher Wray does; he's Trump appointed and threatened to resign if the memo was released. Now if a Trump FBI director resigns over it that is not exactly going to reflect well on Trump and his claims of bias but I'm sure Trump will ridicule him like he done to all his other who left.

Water John

I think in these extraordinary times, Wray ans Rosenstein should do as Sessions has done and brazen it out.
Let Trump reach further down into the cesspit he has created.

BoJack Horseman

alchemist33 wrote: »

It's a memo, FFS, a memo -- one step up from a post-it note -- not a forensic analysis.

It is a great shame then that the FBI refuse to release the documents that the memo pertain to.... after 10 months of asking.

This "memo" wouldn't exist, if the Feds would only give what Congress asked for.

But with this memo will come more pressure for the FBI to comply with the lawmakers.

American poilitics is in an odd place at the moment when the Democrats, the MSM & their colleagues in the administrative state are dead set against transparency.

Water John

What are you saying the FBI should disclose to the Members of Congress?

If its an ongoing investigation, then the FBI discloses its material in FISA. That is the check mechanism. A judge decides, and independent person, within a closed system.

rossie1977

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

American poilitics is in an odd place at the moment when the Democrats, the MSM & their colleagues in the administrative state are dead set against transparency.

Republicans voted against releasing the Democratic memo at the same time as the Nunes one. Hope Hicks has stated Don Jrs emails will never get out and Trump still hasn't released his tax returns or shown proof he has divested himself from his business.

It's a case of we want fully transparency from the Dems while giving nothing in return.

BoJack Horseman

rossie1977 wrote: »

Republicans voted against releasing the Democratic memo at the same time as the Nunes one

Indeed.... Pathfinder Schiff's "memo" was just him playing sillybuggers.
They absolutely should have released that too... for the lols of it.

This all comes back to FBI.

All previous and future requests to release information from Congress should be complied with.

People are bored with being kept in the dark.

Water John

Nunes admits on FOX, that he has not read the FISA applications. WTF.
Nunes doing exactly what he did before.

So your saying M15 and M16 should report to the House of Commons.
Our secret service should report to Dail Eireann?
That is just nuts. The FISA court over sees such FBI investigations. These have to make progress and be updated every 90 days. That is the level of scrutiny.
You also have the Attorney General, in this case Deputy Attorney General, overseeing Mueller.

aloyisious

Nody wrote: »

But what will be interesting to see is what Christopher Wray does; he's Trump appointed and threatened to resign if the memo was released. Now if a Trump FBI director resigns over it that is not exactly going to reflect well on Trump and his claims of bias but I'm sure Trump will ridicule him like he done to all his other who left.

If he does resign, I hope he holds a press conference at the DOJ to explain why and calls Don a liar in public, incl having Fox News present so that the other news channels and media sources record that channel's questions and reaction at the conference. Catching Fox News with their pants down is essential so they can't give a "fake news" release and will give Don no one except his press secretary to explain his actions to the public.

Manic Moran

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The Dow jones is down 600 points as of a couple of seconds ago. I thought the stoke market was doing well. It's the worst week in 2 years apparently.

Apparently the concern is that the economy is growing too fast. Wages have been increasing a fair bit, the highest rate in 8 years, and the Fed has indicated today that it may raise interest rates sooner than expected in order to slow it down a bit. That's putting a bit of a dampener on stocks.

The other hammering came a couple days back, when Bazos/Buffett et al announced going into the healthcare business. Didn't do the established healthcare companies any good.

Overheal

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It is a great shame then that the FBI refuse to release the documents that the memo pertain to.... after 10 months of asking.

This "memo" wouldn't exist, if the Feds would only give what Congress asked for.

But with this memo will come more pressure for the FBI to comply with the lawmakers.

American poilitics is in an odd place at the moment when the Democrats, the MSM & their colleagues in the administrative state are dead set against transparency.

Thing is, specifically the house Intel committee: Devin Nunes has previously been caught and shamed by both parties for bringing information to the White House about the investigations before he brought it to his own committee. He even ended up recusing himself from matters pertaining to the Russia investigation. Yes. You read that right. He is recused from Russia issues yet directly meddling in a FISA warrants issue regarding surveillance of a man who is charged with crimes and connections regarding Ukraine and Russia. Can’t make this stuff up.

Meuller has also in recent days moved to push back Pages trial again because of what they dubbed premature disclosure of the evidence. Conclude from that if you will that there is a likelihood that evidence in Page’s trial would stand to jeapordize ongoing investigations into other persons of interest if the evidence is disclosed too soon. But Nunes is on marching orders from Trump, to discredit the investigation.

The play is to use this memo even though he has no idea what Meuller knows, or what information was used to obtain FISA/FISC renewals, to claim that the renewals were a sham based on omitted evidence. This will lead to public anarchy, rebuttals, etc. until either the investigation is killed or the investigators are compelled to reveal what they are up to, which can intrinsically compromise the nature of the investigation - which may be the convenient point. In this way they are trying to force an ultimatum on the investigation: show what you’ve found, or are doing, thereby stopping the investigation - or resist that and risk being shutdown anyway. If Meuller tells the committee what he has, guess who will run over to the White House for a lunch to tell the President all he knows.

jooksavage

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Indeed.... Pathfinder Schiff's "memo" was just him playing sillybuggers.
They absolutely should have released that too... for the lols of it.

This all comes back to FBI.

All previous and future requests to release information from Congress should be complied with.

People are bored with being kept in the dark.

If Trump and his administration are so committed to transparency then how about those long overdue tax returns or white house visitor logs or some info on who's funding the America First Policies group? Maybe a quarterly report outlining how Trumps presidency is intersecting with private finances?

Mr.Micro

Overheal wrote: »

And it works. Koch et all will spend a few hundred million to peddle ads that amount to "yeah well the Democrats are broken too" which makes the average person think there's moot value in flipping seats and going out to vote.

That is the truth of it alas. There is nothing the Democrats have to offer and appear as tainted and jaded as the Republicians. In essence, the US could do with a major third party, or a slew of smaller parties to shake things up with the two main parties. Could it have been worse, a choice between the awful Clinton and the equally awful Trump.