Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

Start at "Make America Great Again".

Everything has been couched in terms of US security, US jobs, US economy. He may not have the best ideas on how to achieve these things (Trade war, anyone?), and it may be somewhat in terms of fearmongering (MS-13, Jihadism), but they are all focused on "America and Americans first, foreign considerations second".

"Oh, he's racist against hispanics"? Is he? Why, because Mexico happens to be a country with great influence in the US's criminal violence underworld? Because the Mexican border is the crossing point for about a half million people a year? Is that racist against hispanics, or just focusing on something a lot of Americans are concerned about with a country which happens to be primarily hispanic? "But he called Mexicans rapists and murderers". Even if one discounts the small minority cases where they actually are, which I suspect was what he was (incompetently) going for, was it because they are Hispanic? Does he call Puerto Ricans rapists and murderers? Does he call the Hispanic population in California one of rapists and murderers?

"He's racist against Islam" (Well, religionist, I guess). Notwithstanding that more Catholics are actually affected by the travel ban than muslims (The tally of folks entering from Venezuela is alone was more than the other countries combined), the US has been at war with Islamic forces for the last 15 years. The threat of jihadism, whether justified or not, is a concern in people's minds especially given events in Europe, and it is a religion-based threat. Is it an over-reaction? Maybe. But is it because 'Islam', or is it because most jihadists tend to claim to be islamic, and he's attempting to emphasize the security threat?

"He's racist against blacks". Why, because he called certain countries in Africa "****holes?" He is utterly tone deaf and childish (eg "Pocahontas" insult on Warren when honoring Navajos), but face it, the countries in question are not exactly at the top of the WHO Living Conditions Index, be the population white or black. "OK, he has enabled racism, look at the Charlottesville rally". How? What has he said which has apparently given Neo-Nazi groups their blessing? Is it possible that these groups would have felt emboldened by -any- Republican candidate given that the drive since 2015 against confederate symbols has been well supported by Democrats?

Trump has a hell of a lot of flaws. I remain unconvinced that racism is one of them.

Go ahead, crack your knuckles.

Your bar for racism is incredibly high so much so that no one else can really see it.

And if you think he wouldn't sell you or any other American up the river to make a quick buck then your heavily misguided. He's America chants are a means to an end. The man loves number one. Him. He's no nationalist.

StringerBell

markodaly wrote: »

So, anecdotal evidence so.

What next, the nonsense story about his dad being at some clan rally 80 years ago?

Meanwhile, polls are showing that Trump is attracting a record number of black males

Record number of black males? Really?

I'm not even gonna check this one, if you want me to believe more black males are voting for Trump than for Obama you might want to provide some evidence of that. That would be truly astounding.

What polls?

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

Start at "Make America Great Again".

Everything has been couched in terms of US security, US jobs, US economy. He may not have the best ideas on how to achieve these things (Trade war, anyone?), and it may be somewhat in terms of fearmongering (MS-13, Jihadism), but they are all focused on "America and Americans first, foreign considerations second".

"Oh, he's racist against hispanics"? Is he? Why, because Mexico happens to be a country with great influence in the US's criminal violence underworld? Because the Mexican border is the crossing point for about a half million people a year? Is that racist against hispanics, or just focusing on something a lot of Americans are concerned about with a country which happens to be primarily hispanic? "But he called Mexicans rapists and murderers". Even if one discounts the small minority cases where they actually are, which I suspect was what he was (incompetently) going for, was it because they are Hispanic? Does he call Puerto Ricans rapists and murderers? Does he call the Hispanic population in California one of rapists and murderers?

"He's racist against Islam" (Well, religionist, I guess). Notwithstanding that more Catholics are actually affected by the travel ban than muslims (The tally of folks entering from Venezuela is alone was more than the other countries combined), the US has been at war with Islamic forces for the last 15 years. The threat of jihadism, whether justified or not, is a concern in people's minds especially given events in Europe, and it is a religion-based threat. Is it an over-reaction? Maybe. But is it because 'Islam', or is it because most jihadists tend to claim to be islamic, and he's attempting to emphasize the security threat?

"He's racist against blacks". Why, because he called certain countries in Africa "****holes?" He is utterly tone deaf and childish (eg "Pocahontas" insult on Warren when honoring Navajos), but face it, the countries in question are not exactly at the top of the WHO Living Conditions Index, be the population white or black. "OK, he has enabled racism, look at the Charlottesville rally". How? What has he said which has apparently given Neo-Nazi groups their blessing? Is it possible that these groups would have felt emboldened by -any- Republican candidate given that the drive since 2015 against confederate symbols has been well supported by Democrats?

Trump has a hell of a lot of flaws. I remain unconvinced that racism is one of them.

Go ahead, crack your knuckles.

Couple of things. Some of them have been raised by other posters here.

If you believe for one moment Trump is interested in making America great again and its not some nonsense slogan, I have some magic beans to sell you.

Russia interfered in the election, that is a widely accepted fact, including by most Republicans. He should be up in arms about it. He should have put in place systems to make sure that the elections in 2018 are not affected. Has he? Has he ****. There have been no substantive penalties applied to Russia. Quite the contrary in fact. Bolton is lining up a summit.

So ask yourself this. If he is a Nationalist, why on earth has been muted regarding the interference with the constitutional rights of every American citizen in terms of self determination.

Has done nothing to address that point. If he is all about America, why has he not done so?

What he has done instead is tweeted over 190 times about the legitimate Mueller probe, lie outrageously through his teeth about it, fired a guy investigating it, called it a witch hunt, spoken is the most disparaging terms of the Intelligence Community and very possibly obstructed the process.

He should be co-operating fully. He should want to get to the bottom of it.

As for the racist thing, like I said, see plenty of posts above. Or perhaps read up on the Central Park 5, and the full page advert he took out around the times of those murders. Try how he treats the people of Puerto Rico, with his less than lip service to their plight. I can "crack my knuckles" and post more later, but I suspect you will bat those reasons why away.

Watch and see. When those Apprentice tapes are released as directed and he is caught on tape using the N word, his supporters will play it down as a colloquialism that "everyone uses", and that it doesn't mean he is a racist. Short of him donning a white robe and lighting a cross, they will either deny it still, or do so only in public.

demfad

everlast75 wrote: »

He should have put in place systems to make sure that the elections in 2018 are not affected. Has he? Has he ****. There have been no substantive penalties applied to Russia. Quite the contrary in fact. Bolton is lining up a summit.

What has he done:
Given intelligence to Russia on Israel.
Given Intelligence to Russia on Dutch intelligence's hacks and monitoring of Fancy Bear. Dutch Intel discovered the attack on the DNC, the Pentagon and others and were feeding the US administration intelligence on this.
Soon after Trump was appointed the Dutch operation was blown.

I have no doubt that what the Russians did in 2016 was Mickey Mouse compared to what they will do in 2018.
Is Trump compromised by Russia? If the answer is YES then the 2018 election will be hacked and its time (its already time) to start calling the United States of America an kleptocracy rules by the Trump regime.

aloyisious

everlast75 wrote: »

Re next Supreme Court nominee, Trump is on the record (for what that is worth) as saying that he would appoint a SC judge who would oppose Roe Vs Wade.

Now if he would repeat that for the record by an undeniable tweet or broadcast himself that has only one interpretation despite the best attempts of his media agents to muddy the waters [he meant this, not that] then he could be accused of trying to control the course of US justice by stacking the deck against a free and fair SC judgement on any case it hears and makes a decision on. That might be an impeachable offence under the constitution - separation of powers [directly interfering with the independence of the SC] which the GOP would have to back unless the honourable president withdrew his nomination for the SC seat.

everlast75

aloyisious wrote: »

Now if he would repeat that for the record by an undeniable tweet or broadcast himself that has only one interpretation despite the best attempts of his media agents to muddy the waters [he meant this, not that] then he could be accused of trying to control the course of US justice by stacking the deck against a free and fair SC judgement on any case it hears and makes a decision on. That might be an impeachable offence under the constitution - separation of powers [directly interfering with the independence of the SC] which the GOP would have to back unless the honourable president withdrew his nomination for the SC seat.

What about at a presidential debate?

https://youtu.be/iTSVzSiRpcI


No?


How about Fox News

https://youtu.be/dpIMuOPu5Hs

2 Scoops

Mexico is a grand place in fairness, only 130 political candidates have been assassinated in 10 months. Trump's rhetoric is totally out of place. I hear the call from some Democratic leaders and hopefuls for abolishing ICE, did you ever hear such nonsense in your life?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/27/americas/mexico-political-deaths-election-season-trnd/index.html

WinnyThePoo

2 Scoops wrote: »

Mexico is a grand place in fairness, only 130 political candidates have been assassinated in 10 months. Trump's rhetoric is totally out of place. I hear the call from some Democratic leaders and hopefuls for abolishing ICE, did you ever hear such nonsense in your life?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/27/americas/mexico-political-deaths-election-season-trnd/index.html

I'm guessing you've never been to Mexico and haven't the faintest how beautiful a country is. It has huge issues with gangs and drugs. People already know this.

2 Scoops

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I'm guessing you've never been to Mexico and haven't the faintest how beautiful a country is. It has huge issues with gangs and drugs. People already know this.

What's your point?

WinnyThePoo

2 Scoops wrote: »

What's your point?

What's yours. You didn't make one.

2 Scoops

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

What's yours. You didn't make one.

That Trump's rhetoric about the Mexican border and the people coming through there is based in reality and not based on racism. Likewise the travel ban, if it was proposed in Europe to halt Muslim immigration the majority would support it, a chatham house poll supports this.

I find it interesting that despite all the cries of racism and the Democratic wing of the media circling pictures from both Obama's reign of Children in cages and spreading pictures like the little girl on the Time cover that were totally out of context, Trump's approval rating among minorities is actually increasing. According to the latest Harvard/Harris poll, he's up 10 points with Hispanics.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/394384-poll-trump-approval-rating-ticks-up-to-47-percent

Given that African American unemployment is at the lowest point ever recorded, as is Hispanic unemployment, I think Trump is doing an incredibly awful job of being the white Supremacist commander in chief many people like to portray him as.

WinnyThePoo

So nothing new. Just trying to justify his fear mongering rhetoric. Fair enough.

2 Scoops

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

So nothing new. Just trying to justify his fear mongering rhetoric. Fair enough.

There's no Trump in Europe and European leaders in recent years have used the opposite of "fear mongering rhetoric", they've downplayed immigration problems at every opportunity. So why it the majority of people in Europe support a Trump style travel ban?

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/europes-border-crisis/majority-leading-eu-nations-support-trump-style-travel-ban-poll-n718271

listermint

Nothing shows up clearer than the useful idiot who claims the majority of X wants Y when they have no way of proving such drivel.


Made up facts are the best

2 Scoops

listermint wrote: »

Nothing shows up clearer than the useful idiot who claims the majority of X wants Y when they have no way of proving such drivel.


Made up facts are the best

How are polls "made up facts" ? Here's the full Chatham House study.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration

"A majority of Europeans would support a Trump-style ban on further migration from mainly Muslim countries, according to a poll of more than 10,000 people in 10 countries.

An average of 55 percent of those surveyed for London-based think tank, Chatham House, agreed that immigration from Muslim–majority countries should be halted."

Here's a Politico poll showing the majority in the US support Trump's travel ban.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/05/trump-travel-ban-poll-voters-240215

"A clear majority of voters support President Donald Trump’s travel ban on visitors from six predominantly Muslim countries, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll.

Polling on the travel restrictions has varied wildly since the Trump administration unveiled the first executive order on travel in late January. But after months of litigation and controversy, 6-in-10 voters back the ban — and the survey suggests the actual policy may be more popular when separated from the president."

listermint

You can't begin to survey hundreds of millions of people with different languages from different countries. I don't care what London centric survey you link to.

It's idiotic surely you can see that.



Perhaps not

listermint

listermint wrote: »

You can't begin to survey hundreds of millions of people with different languages from different countries. I don't care what London centric survey you link to.

It's idiotic surely you can see that.



Perhaps not

Why not? Is it because you disagree with the findings?

2 Scoops

listermint wrote: »

You can't begin to survey hundreds of millions of people with different languages from different countries. I don't care what London centric survey you link to.

It's idiotic surely you can see that.



Perhaps not

They broke it down Country by Country, it's not idiotic at all. It's standard polling procedure and Chatham house are a highly respected outfit free from Political bias.

https://i.imgur.com/ua8ObhE.png

In the US Politico's poll shows a majority support his travel ban and they can hardly be called skewed towards Republicans.

Aside from the idiot comment, I think your stance is a case of ignoring reality because you don't agree with the sentiment or that it might be favourable towards Trump. I don't agree with that way of thinking, it's quite cultish.

everlast75

The nationalist Trump is at it again. Despite his own Senate intelligence finding and words from his Secretary of State, who said
“The actions of this administration make clear that President Trump’s national security strategy, rightfully, has identified Russia as a danger to our country,” Trump decides to talk Putin's word for it, reward him with a 1 on 1 summit, and then throw in some distraction for good measure. America first!!!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1012295859072126977?s=19

WinnyThePoo

2 Scoops wrote: »

They broke it down Country by Country, it's not idiotic at all. It's standard polling procedure and Chatham house are a highly respected outfit free from Political bias.

https://i.imgur.com/ua8ObhE.png

In the US Politico's poll shows a majority support his travel ban and they can hardly be called skewed towards Republicans.

Aside from the idiot comment, I think your stance is a case of ignoring reality because you don't agree with the sentiment or that it might be favourable towards Trump. I don't agree with that way of thinking, it's quite cultish.

They are a right wing think tank. So yes it there will be bias.


Also its kinda funny a trumpist trying to insulate the people he doesn't agree with are cultist. I find nothing more cultist than following a leader you know is lying to you at every turn and still going 'give me more.. Oh dear leader'

everlast75

2 Scoops wrote: »

They broke it down Country by Country, it's not idiotic at all. It's standard polling procedure and Chatham house are a highly respected outfit free from Political bias.

https://i.imgur.com/ua8ObhE.png

In the US Politico's poll shows a majority support his travel ban and they can hardly be called skewed towards Republicans.

Aside from the idiot comment, I think your stance is a case of ignoring reality because you don't agree with the sentiment or that it might be favourable towards Trump. I don't agree with that way of thinking, it's quite cultish.

If you're going to use that to support his Muslim Ban, then ask yourself why aren't the Countries from where the terrorists who actually attacked america came from on the list? I mean, if that's what its all about.

It's an ignorant policy appealing to those who lap up what he says. But don't take my word for it, take the word of Mike Pence


https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433?s=19

2 Scoops

He should shut up, it's tweets like that, that give unlimited firepower to those who say Russia has him by the balls, and maybe rightly so.

If he was smart he'd just continuously tweet the Strzok, McCabe, Page texts showing bias against him and his campaign because going forward that's going to be the best defense against Mueller and possible indictments if he does end up finding the golden egg.

2 Scoops

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

They are a right wing think tank.

The think tank that provided people like Hillary Clinton with awards. Please provide some information that supports your projection that they are "right-wing".

StringerBell

Russia did not meddle as they told us they didn't, the point of the man being why are they looking into these Trump and Russia links as Russia say they didn't meddle followed up by why arent they looking into Hilary and Russia links......

The man is gold at times to be fair to him.

Captain Obvious

2 Scoops wrote: »

That Trump's rhetoric about the Mexican border and the people coming through there is based in reality and not based on racism. Likewise the travel ban, if it was proposed in Europe to halt Muslim immigration the majority would support it, a chatham house poll supports this.

I find it interesting that despite all the cries of racism and the Democratic wing of the media circling pictures from both Obama's reign of Children in cages and spreading pictures like the little girl on the Time cover that were totally out of context, Trump's approval rating among minorities is actually increasing. According to the latest Harvard/Harris poll, he's up 10 points with Hispanics.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/394384-poll-trump-approval-rating-ticks-up-to-47-percent

Given that African American unemployment is at the lowest point ever recorded, as is Hispanic unemployment, I think Trump is doing an incredibly awful job of being the white Supremacist commander in chief many people like to portray him as.

Hardly surpising more people are saying they support him when government agents are turning up to the doors of people who criticise him.

During the interview at his home, some three months after he quit, Yuccas and Schwab were interrupted by a surprise visit from men who said they were agents from the Department of Homeland Security Inspector General's Office. He was "completely shocked" to see them.

2 Scoops

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

They are a right wing think tank. So yes it there will be bias.

I'll save you the hassle, you lied. The only independent report I can find online citing their political leanings is here:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/1461670X.2017.1389295?needAccess=true&

"Centre for Policy Studies list categorises Chatham House as one the most left-wing think tanks in the United Kingdom"

There's literally nothing online citing them as a ring wing outfit. Glad we cleared that up

Christy42

2 Scoops wrote: »

Mexico is a grand place in fairness, only 130 political candidates have been assassinated in 10 months. Trump's rhetoric is totally out of place. I hear the call from some Democratic leaders and hopefuls for abolishing ICE, did you ever hear such nonsense in your life?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/27/americas/mexico-political-deaths-election-season-trnd/index.html

Surely a more accurate statistic here would be the crime rate of illegal immigrants. Why are you not looking at that?

Trump was referring to the illegal immigrants in his speeches so they should be what is looked at. Common sense.

Somehow I feel like assassinating a political rival before fleeing the country defeats the point a bit. Who knows, maybe that little girl crying was just upset over a failed hit on someone?

BabyCheeses

2 Scoops wrote: »

Mexico is a grand place in fairness, only 130 political candidates have been assassinated in 10 months. Trump's rhetoric is totally out of place. I hear the call from some Democratic leaders and hopefuls for abolishing ICE, did you ever hear such nonsense in your life?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/27/americas/mexico-political-deaths-election-season-trnd/index.html

Mexico sounds very dangerous. I guess people from there and South America should have no problem getting asylum in the US.

WinnyThePoo

2 Scoops wrote: »

I'll save you the hassle, you lied. The only independent report I can find online citing their political leanings is here:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/1461670X.2017.1389295?needAccess=true&

"Centre for Policy Studies list categorises Chatham House as one the most left-wing think tanks in the United Kingdom"

There's literally nothing online citing them as a ring wing outfit. Glad we cleared that up

Sorry i just presumed because your posting history on here, you where posting dishonestly.

aloyisious

everlast75 wrote: »

What about at a presidential debate?

https://youtu.be/iTSVzSiRpcI


No?


How about Fox News

https://youtu.be/dpIMuOPu5Hs

Unfortunately they are preceding his election and getting the right to actually nominate a person for an SC seat so that will be a way out for him on deniability.