Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread III
Comments
-
What incompetancy ?
The Trump Administration has been the most competent adminstration in dealing with NK and getting them to the table and moving the situation forward.
I dont see any incompetancy. Long term, think Rekjavik summit, think glasnost and peristroika, think the irish peace process, think how history has thought us how things work in the real world and evolve over months and years and even decades.
Just cos a person has different opinions to you does not warrant them being called a wind up merchant, your displaying a baser self.
You're either a wind up merchant or living in a fantasy world.0 -
-
At this point in time it looks like being a disaster for the Democrats.How do you all think the midterm elections will play out in November? For, or against Trump?
Theres been no evidence of Dem voter turnout in any primaries, most turnout has been on the low side.
Continued infighting in the DNC.
The rise of a 'socialist' left in the DNC will scare off many Dems from turning out.
The GOP and Trump backed candidates have many positive messages to bring to their campaigns.
Fundraising is not as strong as it once was in the DNC. Not as much money for ads.
Too many of the old HRC guard still hanging about that will prevent the DNC from unifying .
the media continue to alienate the moderates and swing voters, the media continue to give too much air time to Trump.
The media should be getting the DNC policy message across, but the DNC dont have any .
The left continues to provide ammo for the GOP campaign, Maxine Waters and the like.
Mueller probe has been a damp squid, a few indictments but nothing major.
Nunes continues to expose DNC corruption, FBI and CIA collusion, this story is gathering pace, with further public testimony to come and will feed into the November cycle.
Trumps SCOTUS pick will excite conservatives , and with a potential further pick in this term or next term, the Senate majority may increase.
Trump will go out on the campaign trail and do the same thing he did for his election, get voters turned out and voting GOP.
Polling trends are mostly trending towards the GOP and away from DNC. The generic polling ballot gap is shortening.
DNC still may have positive leads but they are much narrower.
Continued positive employment trends for black and hispanics will aid the GOP vote.
Thats just a few , theres at least a dozen others , positive for GOP .
Its a perfect storm working against the DNC. They will lose further Senate seats and possibly not even take the House majority. I see more upsets to come. Course all this could change in the next 4 months, just how I see things as they are now.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 34601
What incompetancy ?
The Trump Administration has been the most competent adminstration in dealing with NK and getting them to the table and moving the situation forward.
I dont see any incompetancy. Long term, think Rekjavik summit, think glasnost and peristroika, think the irish peace process, think how history has thought us how things work in the real world and evolve over months and years and even decades.
Just cos a person has different opinions to you does not warrant them being called a wind up merchant, your displaying a baser self.
If the appropriate perspective is long-term, what gives YOUR insight, based on the same immediate news the rest of us are observing, more weight? You are not the keeper of the flame, and your outlook has no more value than the rest of us, yet you refuse to engage in discussion of the NOW, acting like it's beneath you to discuss the 'boots on the ground' viewpoint.
You affect insult at being accused a WUM, yet you yourself constantly demean others with condemnations of short-term thinking, despite blatant extrapolating long-term pronunciations of truth from intentionally biased skewing of current affairs - by way of, what, historical yet utterly different situations? Your foresight has no greater value just because your parrot 'Glasnost' like it's the secret password, even though in the demonstrable period of ... right now, Korea is already seen to be going back on its word.
This isn't the era of Mutually Assured Destruction, this is a rogue - practically eccentric - barely sustainable state, desperately trying to claw back its nuclear research after its facility collapsed. The only equivalence with the USSR here are the ancient diesel submarines North Korea bought from Russia.0 -
Trent Houseboat wrote: »I've said it before, the Dunning Kreuger effect is best exemplified by the phrase "I know words, I have the best words"
That's good.
This is gooder.
0 -
Advertisement
-
Its here in pictures... Does anyone remember HRC and her Russia RESET RED BUTTON ....
The US Secretary of State presents the Russian Foreign Minister with a little RED BUTTON to signify US-Russian relations reset, it was embarassing, lets present Putin with a red button, or as the articla says, " she gave him a device with a red knob " The US state dept could'nt even get the name right.
So yes there are adults in the WhiteHouse now, dealing very effectively with US Foreign Policy , and dealing effectively with authoritarian regimes . The Trump Administration wont be presenting any red buttons to Foreign leaders.
Firstly, you weren't just talking about foreign relations. It's adults in the whitehouse in general. Your comment was about long term planning, future elections and all that. Am I incorrect here?
Secondly, according to your argument, one silly gesture from the previous Secretary of state proves that there were indeed not adults in the whitehouse before. not in terms of foreign relations but actually in terms of everything.
So by this rationale, if I find one immature gesture or silly thing done by someone in the whitehouse under Trump, I'm negating your entire argument and indeed showing that the entire administration lacks maturity.
Can you correct me as appropriate please?0 -
What incompetancy ?
The Trump Administration has been the most competent adminstration in dealing with NK and getting them to the table and moving the situation forward.
Whoa, hold your horses there. Only yesterday it was reported that NK were ramping up their nuclear program, not 3 weeks after the summit. Pompeo is in his way there now but there's a lot of scepticism among regional experts like Steph Haggard and Mira Rapp-Hooper that anything substantial will come of any agreement.0 -
Its here in pictures... Does anyone remember HRC and her Russia RESET RED BUTTON ....
The US Secretary of State presents the Russian Foreign Minister with a little RED BUTTON to signify US-Russian relations reset, it was embarassing, lets present Putin with a red button, or as the articla says, " she gave him a device with a red knob " The US state dept could'nt even get the name right.
So yes there are adults in the WhiteHouse now, dealing very effectively with US Foreign Policy , and dealing effectively with authoritarian regimes . The Trump Administration wont be presenting any red buttons to Foreign leaders.
Firstly, you weren't just talking about foreign relations. It's adults in the whitehouse in general. Your comment was about long term planning, future elections and all that. Am I incorrect here?
Secondly, according to your argument, one silly gesture from the previous Secretary of state proves that there were indeed not adults in the whitehouse before. not in terms of foreign relations but actually in terms of everything.
So by this rationale, if I find one immature gesture or silly thing done by someone in the whitehouse under Trump, I'm negating your entire argument and indeed showing that the entire administration lacks maturity.
Can you correct me as appropriate please?
If you can find an example in the Trump administration of the same stature as The US SECRETARY OF STATE presenting the RUSSIA FOREIGN MINISTER with a " small device with a big red knob' then perhaps you have scored a point on me.
If its a whatabouttery game you want, I expect we are both too busy and others are not interested in posts of whatabout this and whatabout that. Id still assert the current Whitehouse adminstration is far more mature and effective than the last one.
Every short term event has a long term ripple effect, some ripples are larger than others.0 -
There's a small part of me that feels they could get behind the Dem Socialists and take the tax hit (it's never going to be as bad as what I was paying in Ireland) and then they come out with "abolish profit".
I really hope I get something better than this as a choice.0 -
I'm normally more articulate in my posts, but I'll just use one word here...
YIPPEE!!!!
"After the FBI showed up at his home, office, and hotel room in April, much of Michael Cohen‘s time — and the time of Rudy Giuliani, President Donald Trump, Alan Dershowitz, and so on, have been — has been spent arguing about when it had all of a sudden become appropriate to raid a lawyer’s office. Despite the arguments that went on in the immediate aftermath of the raid, the government now officially has access to more than 1.3 million items seized in the raid, and that’s only the beginning.
The Monday filing in the Southern District of New York (SDNY) confirms that a release of exactly 1,310,365 items were handed over to federal prosecutors. These items were not designated “privileged, partially privileged or highly personal” by Cohen. In other words, these items weren’t contested, so this is what the government has to work with from the start.
“Further, once the Trump Administration submits its designations, any remaining items that are not designated privileged, partially privileged or highly personal will be promptly released to the Government,” the filing continues.
More items are also being reviewed in the meantime.
At first, Cohen and his former attorneys Stephen Ryan and Todd Harrison wrangled in court about the documents. Eventually, prosecutors and Cohen’s team agreed to have retired judge Barbara S. Jones serve as special master at Judge Kimba Wood‘s appointment. She was tasked with sifting through all of the seized materials and making a recommendation on whether or not the documents were covered by privilege.
Jones previously determined that 14 paper documents were privileged or partly privileged and that 148 electronic files were privileged. Electronic files came from two of Cohen’s phones and one iPad. CNN reported that only three items were considered “highly personal.”
Between the beginning of the case and now, Cohen’s aforementioned attorneys ceased representing him and Cohen’s defense has also taken a different shape. Guy Petrillo, the former leader of the criminal division at the SDNY (the office currently pursuing Cohen), will be representing the embattled former personal attorney of Donald Trump moving forward.
Cohen told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in an interview Monday where his loyalties are.
“To be crystal clear, my wife, my daughter and my son, and this country have my first loyalty,” he said. “I will not be a punching bag as part of anyone’s defense strategy. I am not a villain of this story, and I will not allow others to try to depict me that way.”[/url]0 -
Advertisement
-
This abolish ICE stuff is so foolish, exactly the type of thing you expect from the Democrats to score an own goal. It's a free home run for Trump and the Republicans to boot.
This is a microcosm of what is wrong with them."People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."
0 -
At this point in time it looks like being a disaster for the Democrats.Theres been no evidence of Dem voter turnout in any primaries, most turnout has been on the low side.
This is surely a problem for all sides, not sure why it would be specific to the Dems. It indicates a feeling of disenchantment.Continued infighting in the DNC.
The level of infighting leading up the POTUS election within the GOP was staggering, many GOP house members were openly hostile to Trump and many still are. If you are going to use this point then you must conceded that either A) its irrelevant to voters or b)that it is going to hurt the GOP as much
The continued rise of the hard right i the GOP will also scare many GOP members off. The move away from the party ideals (fiscal conservatism for eg.)The rise of a 'socialist' left in the DNC will scare off many Dems from turning out.The GOP and Trump backed candidates have many positive messages to bring to their campaigns.
Well that is entirely subjective of course. Some will see the move to the right as terrible, some will welcome it. Some will see the trade wars as an unnecessary fight, others will welcome it.Fundraising is not as strong as it once was in the DNC. Not as much money for ads.
If I recall correctly there was a recent election, won by the Dems, where the GOP outspent them nearly 10 - 1. Surely a a Trump supporter you can see that money for ads is not the deciding factor as HC had far more funds that Trump.
Aslo, and I hate to bring this up again, but do you have any evidence of this assertion. What are the historic levels on which you are basing you point? How does the Gop compare?Too many of the old HRC guard still hanging about that will prevent the DNC from unifying
Is the GOP unified? There are plenty of resignations going on, higher than in previous terms. They couldn't agree on the Obamacare vote (the one major issue they had). There are plenty of the old guard from the GOP still around as well, that is an issue with politics.
the media continue to alienate the moderates and swing voters, the media continue to give too much air time to Trump.
I agree that the media gives too much time to Trump, or more specifically on non important issues like Melania coat. They should be following up on his continued failed policies, such as the turnabout on his immigration policy. But even with that, I haven't seen any upswing in support for either the GOP of Trump that would lead to your conclusion.The media should be getting the DNC policy message across, but the DNC don't have any .
It is not the job of the media to get the message across.The left continues to provide ammo for the GOP campaign, Maxine Waters and the like.
Is there anything they could do to stop that? I mean, they complained that Obama wore a tan suit once. Maxine has done nothing different that what Trump does nearly everyday. Not sure why the right should have any problem with her, they should be welcoming her "telling it like it is" approach.Mueller probe has been a damp squid, a few indictments but nothing major.
So we need to take a long term helicopter view of Trump, but Mueller needs to deliver fast or he is a failure?Nunes continues to expose DNC corruption, FBI and CIA collusion, this story is gathering pace, with further public testimony to come and will feed into the November cycle.
Again, so Nunes bringing up concerns is exposing, but Mueller actually getting people to confess is a nothing burger. Using you own logic, then Trump has serious questions to answer and Trump Jr should already be in jail.Trumps SCOTUS pick will excite conservatives , and with a potential further pick in this term or next term, the Senate majority may increase.
It will excite the base, but Trump is not taking the chance of losing the majority in November so is going to go ahead with his pick now. So there is nothing for the voters to vote on.
Trump is certainly a major weapon for the GOP. Not sure that he is a vote getter though. His last number of endorsements have failed.Trump will go out on the campaign trail and do the same thing he did for his election, get voters turned out and voting GOP.Polling trends are mostly trending towards the GOP and away from DNC. The generic polling ballot gap is shortening.
But you guys don't believe in polls, they always get it wrong don't they?DNC still may have positive leads but they are much narrower.
They only need .1% to winContinued positive employment trends for black and hispanics will aid the GOP vote.
Totally agree.0 -
What incompetancy ?
The Trump Administration has been the most competent adminstration in dealing with NK and getting them to the table and moving the situation forward.
I dont see any incompetancy. Long term, think Rekjavik summit, think glasnost and peristroika, think the irish peace process, think how history has thought us how things work in the real world and evolve over months and years and even decades.
Just cos a person has different opinions to you does not warrant them being called a wind up merchant, your displaying a baser self.
God even Fox isn't this deluded. Are you hoping to get the next White House Press secretary gig? Going on Trumps previous track record there should be an opening any day now.0 -
It is important to note that there has been an active and enthusiastic effort to repress democrat voters in republican-controlled states. It's not always voter apathy, sometimes it's de facto voter disenfranchisement.
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a15912246/north-carolina-voter-suppression-tactics/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/13/america-history-voter-suppression-donald-trump-election-fraud
https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/
An interesting angle about how the other side does it as well.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-democrats-suppress-the-vote/
Not excusing it by any means, just observing that both sides have interests in gaming the system.0 -
If you can find an example in the Trump administration of the same stature as The US SECRETARY OF STATE presenting the RUSSIA FOREIGN MINISTER with a " small device with a big red knob' then perhaps you have scored a point on me.
If its a whatabouttery game you want, I expect we are both too busy and others are not interested in posts of whatabout this and whatabout that. Id still assert the current Whitehouse adminstration is far more mature and effective than the last one.
Every short term event has a long term ripple effect, some ripples are larger than others.
This administration has done plenty of incredibly stupid things but as you mention, I'll ignore the points scoring, it's a waste of time. So is debating your assertion on the as yet unknown 'long term ripple effect' of actions happening today.
I will again just mention the fact that nothing Trump has done, nothing bar the tax rewrite has any permanency. That's while controlling both houses. Unless the republicans get their act together, both in terms of retaining the senate and actually doing something with a majority, there will actually be no long term effects of Trump bar tax and SCOTUS picks.
Real maturity, to me, would have been using your majority to pass meaningful legislation.
See how quickly Obama's solo work with Iran was undone. Then see how enduring the senate backed Obamacare has been.0 -
StringerBell wrote: »This abolish ICE stuff is so foolish...
Is it, though?
There's this perception that the abolition of ICE somehow means throwing the borders open, or not screening immigrants, or whatever - but ICE didn't exist before 2002, and was introduced along with the Department of Homeland Security. It basically pulled various immigration and customs functions from existing government departments and agencies into an agency established under counter-terrorism law.
There's a lot about ICE to be critical of, including the fact that it's the only law enforcement agency with a quota for the minimum number of people it's required to keep in detention at any time, currently standing at 34,000, at a cost of $2 billion a year.
Think about that for a second: ICE is required by law to keep 34,000 people locked up.
Are the calls for its abolition really so misguided?0 -
Manic Moran wrote: »An interesting angle about how the other side does it as well.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-democrats-suppress-the-vote/
Not excusing it by any means, just observing that both sides have interests in gaming the system.
Would you agree that all efforts by either party to disenfranchise supporters of the other party should be unreservedly condemned and quashed?0 -
jooksavage wrote: »Whoa, hold your horses there. Only yesterday it was reported that NK were ramping up their nuclear program, not 3 weeks after the summit. Pompeo is in his way there now but there's a lot of scepticism among regional experts like Steph Haggard and Mira Rapp-Hooper that anything substantial will come of any agreement.
Yeah but are the Intelligence services really the people you should be listening to over the likes of SHS?StringerBell wrote: »This abolish ICE stuff is so foolish, exactly the type of thing you expect from the Democrats to score an own goal. It's a free home run for Trump and the Republicans to boot.
This is a microcosm of what is wrong with them.
ICE is tainted now, much like the RUC was. Changing it and revamping it makes sense.0 -
What incompetancy ?
The Trump Administration has been the most competent adminstration in dealing with NK and getting them to the table and moving the situation forward.
I dont see any incompetancy. Long term, think Rekjavik summit, think glasnost and peristroika, think the irish peace process, think how history has thought us how things work in the real world and evolve over months and years and even decades.
Just cos a person has different opinions to you does not warrant them being called a wind up merchant, your displaying a baser self.
The only reason NK sat down with the US is because their nuclear aspiration is complete ...So they have to be listened to ... Trump happens to be the puppet in charge ... NK is in charge as to how when and who they talk to ....0 -
oscarBravo wrote: »Is it, though?
There's this perception that the abolition of ICE somehow means throwing the borders open, or not screening immigrants, or whatever - but ICE didn't exist before 2002, and was introduced along with the Department of Homeland Security. It basically pulled various immigration and customs functions from existing government departments and agencies into an agency established under counter-terrorism law.
There's a lot about ICE to be critical of, including the fact that it's the only law enforcement agency with a quota for the minimum number of people it's required to keep in detention at any time, currently standing at 34,000, at a cost of $2 billion a year.
Think about that for a second: ICE is required by law to keep 34,000 people locked up.
Are the calls for its abolition really so misguided?
I'm on the mobile so I can come back with a detailed anwer when the sun goes down but short answer, yes!
It really is misguided to be divisive so close to the mid terms when party unity in getting people out to vote is so important and not give the other side a simple message to rouse their own, better at getting out to vote anyway, base.
Recognise the flaws and change ICE? Sure, and go seek a mandate to to do, the majority of the country I am certain would get behind some Reformation particularly due to the shambles happening at the border.....Abolish however just gives ammo to the other side and divives your own party as we are seeing. You say it's just a perception that it means opening the borders and I agree but are we learning nothing with regard to how important perception is to the American voters? Are we really to believe this is not simple simple annon fodder for Republicans to run on now as evidence that the Democrats want open borders and all the rhetoric that goes with that?
Even if they want to just go full on party wide abolish ICE it would be better though still not the right play imo, at least it would be a unified front to get behind.
It's not enough to be right anymore, you have to sell it too."People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."
0 -
Advertisement
-
Captain Obvious wrote: »
ICE is tainted now, much like the RUC was. Changing it and revamping it makes sense.
No argument with that"People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."
0 -
By a vote of 9-0 the Supreme Court of the US has sided against you. June 2018oscarBravo wrote: »Manic Moran wrote: »An interesting angle about how the other side does it as well.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-democrats-suppress-the-vote/
Not excusing it by any means, just observing that both sides have interests in gaming the system.
Would you agree that all efforts by either party to disenfranchise supporters of the other party should be unreservedly condemned and quashed?
The Supreme Court ruled on this a few weeks ago, and chose to kick to touch, effectively saying its not a legal but a political issue and referring the cases back to lower courts to decide if the challengers even have a basis to bring a case.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/supreme-court-gerrymandering-decision/index.html
Its all lawyer speak just dont expect much change on this issue by 2018 mid-terms, or even by 2020, and even if they do rule in 2019 expect it to be challenged so it will be lucky if any major changes on redrawing electoral maps are enshrined in US law by 2024.
It shows the power of SCOTUS and it shows the long term permanency of SCOTUS decisions , you gotta love a triumvirate of executive, legislative and judicial.
Its probably one of the questions Trump will ask the potential candidates when he decides whos will be Justice Kennedys replacement.0 -
Why do the democrats have to be united but the Republicans can be divided and no one cares? I have never gotten why they are held to different standards.StringerBell wrote: »oscarBravo wrote: »Is it, though?
There's this perception that the abolition of ICE somehow means throwing the borders open, or not screening immigrants, or whatever - but ICE didn't exist before 2002, and was introduced along with the Department of Homeland Security. It basically pulled various immigration and customs functions from existing government departments and agencies into an agency established under counter-terrorism law.
There's a lot about ICE to be critical of, including the fact that it's the only law enforcement agency with a quota for the minimum number of people it's required to keep in detention at any time, currently standing at 34,000, at a cost of $2 billion a year.
Think about that for a second: ICE is required by law to keep 34,000 people locked up.
Are the calls for its abolition really so misguided?
I'm on the mobile so I can come back with a detailed anwer when the sun goes down but short answer, yes!
It really is misguided to be divisive so close to the mid terms when party unity in getting people out to vote is so important and not give the other side a simple message to rouse their own, better at getting out to vote anyway, base.
Recognise the flaws and change ICE? Sure, and go seek a mandate to to do, the majority of the country I am certain would get behind some Reformation particularly due to the shambles happening at the border.....Abolish however just gives ammo to the other side and divives your own party as we are seeing. You say it's just a perception that it means opening the borders and I agree but are we learning nothing with regard to how important perception is to the American voters? Are we really to believe this is not simple simple annon fodder for Republicans to run on now as evidence that the Democrats want open borders and all the rhetoric that goes with that?
Even if they want to just go full on party wide abolish ICE it would be better though still not the right play imo, at least it would be a unified front to get behind.
It's not enough to be right anymore, you have to sell it too.
They fought like cats and dogs over healthcare. Nothing budging and their end agreement was to simply not mention the subject.
A large proportion of the party opposed Trump's immigration zero tolerance policy. Some agreement was found as Trump was forced to back down. A large proportion of the party was and is opposed to Trump starting the trade war with a large proportion of the world.
It is understood that the party leadership only stick with Trump to get stuff like Ryan's tax bill through and would happily dump him for a more moderate if the situation could be handled politically.
The administration has suffered massive turnover partially due to wrong doing and illegalities that have plagued this administration but also because of differences of opinion and people not being able to work together.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »In more "how much lower can this administration go" news, you will recall that DTJ said at a rally last week that the press were the enemy of the people. He whipped up his crowd up, as he does, to a state where they were shouting at reporters.
Then, there was a shooting at the news outlet in Maryland. 5 journalists died. One could be forgiven into thinking at first blush that this attack was as a result of the latest and most direct in a long line of incendary comments made by him at the press. It transpires however, that he was not the cause in this instance.
After the shooting at the news outlet, he changed his tune to a more conciliatory one and said "'Journalists should be free from fear of being violently attacked".
You might be stunned into thinking that perhaps he has learned to treat them more humanly.
But no.... a couple of days later and he is back to being his sh1tty self...
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1014028608711614464
Looks like he was shamed into doing the right thing...
https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/10141112171143372810 -
everlast75 wrote: »Looks like he was shamed into doing the right thing...
https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/1014111217114337281
I wonder if he'll be able to say a few words without feeling compelled to attack the media?0 -
mcmoustache wrote: »I wonder if he'll be able to say a few words without feeling compelled to attack the media?
"They had it coming!"0 -
Why do the democrats have to be united but the Republicans can be divided and no one cares? I have never gotten why they are held to different standards.
They fought like cats and dogs over healthcare. Nothing budging and their end agreement was to simply not mention the subject.
A large proportion of the party opposed Trump's immigration zero tolerance policy. Some agreement was found as Trump was forced to back down. A large proportion of the party was and is opposed to Trump starting the trade war with a large proportion of the world.
It is understood that the party leadership only stick with Trump to get stuff like Ryan's tax bill through and would happily dump him for a more moderate if the situation could be handled politically.
The administration has suffered massive turnover partially due to wrong doing and illegalities that have plagued this administration but also because of differences of opinion and people not being able to work together.
Theres no double standards.
When Republicans had their internal strife when Trump first appeared on the scene in 2015 there was plenty coverage.
Republicans and conservatives were pretty open and mature about having this division and it was let play out and run its course as all things do.
The only double standards are that when Reps were divided they worked their way thru it and their conservatives supporters debated the issue and chose a direction for the party , plus they were comfortable and mature enough to accept outsiders pointing out the divisions. Sometimes its good to LISTEN to external viewpoints of your opponents , you can learn alot from them.
The difference with the Dems is they show no sign of working thru their divisions, partly because the first step to resolution is to admit you have a problem, and the Dems aint done that much yet, and also anyone outside the camp who points out they have some internal strife is labeled .
The reason its important for Democrats to be united at this moment in time is because of their current position with mid-terms and a looming 2020.
Internal divisions is a far different issue when you have POTUS , and both the House and Senate majoritys , than when your scrambling around to flip some seats.0 -
Theres no double standards.
When Republicans had their internal strife when Trump first appeared on the scene in 2015 there was plenty coverage.
Republicans and conservatives were pretty open and mature about having this division and it was let play out and run its course as all things do.
The only double standards are that when Reps were divided they worked their way thru it and their conservatives supporters debated the issue and chose a direction for the party , plus they were comfortable and mature enough to accept outsiders pointing out the divisions. Sometimes its good to LISTEN to external viewpoints of your opponents , you can learn alot from them.
The difference with the Dems is they show no sign of working thru their divisions, partly because the first step to resolution is to admit you have a problem, and the Dems aint done that much yet, and also anyone outside the camp who points out they have some internal strife is labeled .
The reason its important for Democrats to be united at this moment in time is because of their current position with mid-terms and a looming 2020.
Internal divisions is a far different issue when you have POTUS , and both the House and Senate majoritys , than when your scrambling around to flip some seats.
Yet the GOP managed that exact thing when Obama was POTUS. Do you remember the Tea Party?
Seriously, at least try to stay impartial. Instead of starting off with a position and looking to defend it, try looking at things objectively.
There is nobody, at at least not many, on here signing the praises of the Dems. What they are doing is pointing out the incredible shortfalls and downright incompetence of this administration and given the current set up of politics in the US the only way out of the current situation is via the Dems.
In a proper functioning democracy, which even the POTUS doesn't think the US is, there would be alternatives to a GOP or Dems decision. Unfortunately that is not the case.0 -
The Republicans have yet to work through their internal strife. I gave multiple recent examples.Why do the democrats have to be united but the Republicans can be divided and no one cares? I have never gotten why they are held to different standards.
They fought like cats and dogs over healthcare. Nothing budging and their end agreement was to simply not mention the subject.
A large proportion of the party opposed Trump's immigration zero tolerance policy. Some agreement was found as Trump was forced to back down. A large proportion of the party was and is opposed to Trump starting the trade war with a large proportion of the world.
It is understood that the party leadership only stick with Trump to get stuff like Ryan's tax bill through and would happily dump him for a more moderate if the situation could be handled politically.
The administration has suffered massive turnover partially due to wrong doing and illegalities that have plagued this administration but also because of differences of opinion and people not being able to work together.
Theres no double standards.
When Republicans had their internal strife when Trump first appeared on the scene in 2015 there was plenty coverage.
Republicans and conservatives were pretty open and mature about having this division and it was let play out and run its course as all things do.
The only double standards are that when Reps were divided they worked their way thru it and their conservatives supporters debated the issue and chose a direction for the party , plus they were comfortable and mature enough to accept outsiders pointing out the divisions. Sometimes its good to LISTEN to external viewpoints of your opponents , you can learn alot from them.
The difference with the Dems is they show no sign of working thru their divisions, partly because the first step to resolution is to admit you have a problem, and the Dems aint done that much yet, and also anyone outside the camp who points out they have some internal strife is labeled .
The reason its important for Democrats to be united at this moment in time is because of their current position with mid-terms and a looming 2020.
Internal divisions is a far different issue when you have POTUS , and both the House and Senate majoritys , than when your scrambling around to flip some seats.
Will voting for Republicans bring back Trump's zero tolerance level anti immigration policies? What way will it go if healthcare pops up again?
Is it a for or against the trade wars? These are all big issues that vary from Republican to Republican and the party has yet to figure out fully.
Now on both sides I feel like the issue is that a two party system does not allow for variations very well. The reason that Republicans were so unified before the election was because issues were simply not thought about. They all voted for a straight repeal of Obamacare when there was zero chance of it being repealed. It was a nice punching bag. They went in with no plan but said they would come up with a great one, this masked divisions as a great plan meant 100 different things to 100 different people.
The moment they actually needed to look at healthcare issues they went to pieces before hiding it under the rug. They campaigned for years on this issue, including Trump before having to admit they lied about ever having thought seriously about healthcare. That was not unity. That was not talking to each other.0 -
Advertisement
-
Why do the democrats have to be united but the Republicans can be divided and no one cares? I have never gotten why they are held to different standards.
I assume the fact that Republicans are more about state-level politics means national divides etc. worry their voters less. The Democrats need to maintain a countrywide stability since their focus is at the federal level.
More reasons I'm sure but that could be one aspect.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement